Joe: Welcome. This is The Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast.

Joe: Welcome to The Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast. And I'm with a really good friend of mine. His name is Todd Toback. All of y'all know Todd he's such a cool guy. I've had him on the podcast before and he's one of my favorite people in the world. I love, Todd and I talk, we're like girls were on the phone almost every day and just kind of Todd's always building me up, man. He's always like, Joe, you're better than that. Pushing me, pushing me and getting me out of my comfort zone.

Joe: And Todd has so much wisdom that I'm just really proud and happy to call him a friend and I'm really glad he's on the podcast here to talk with you guys. We've got a very specific thing to talk about on this podcast. We are going to be talking about how to go from a hustler mode to business owner mode because Todd has done that over and over again. And Todd, how you doing man?

Todd: I'm doing awesome. I'm really excited, we've been friends for a long time. And you know, the keyword that you use, Joe, is transformation, right? Because when you first met me I was in a completely different business, right? I was in your specialty and we both transformed many times over. I mean, and I know that when we got started we were talking about how to, how to hustle and put together a lease option deals, right? And then you basically transformed you know, doing that business with the help of virtual assistants before the word virtual assistant was even cool.

Joe: So funny. Because those of you who don't know the history, the story, again, I was getting started doing lease options back in 2008, I bought Todd's course and one of the bonuses for his course was a free coaching call. And I was so excited, I was nervous. I remember exactly where I was. I was at this middle of the nowhere Illinois at a power plant, working a job. I had to spend the night there. I was frustrated with my job. And when you spend the night in one of these small towns, you know, luckily, hopefully you can find a decent apartment, a hotel and like the only place that you can actually eat is that these little restaurants where like they must only serve frozen food that they buy like once a week when they go into town to go to Sam's club or something like that. Just like, and I'm sitting there in the parking lot and I'm going through the course, writing down my questions, waiting to talk to Todd, dinner's over. I'm in my car, I'm talking to Todd asking him a million questions and I'm sure they were all just like, all these stupid what if questions.

Joe: But then at the end I said, Todd, can I really like seriously, please tell me the truth. Can I really make a full time income doing real estate? Like I do what you say, can I really make a full time income doing real estate? He said, yeah, of course. I mean, that sounds like so simple, right? Like what else is he going to say? But I knew I needed to hear that. I needed to hear somebody believe in me and say, yes, you can do it. Of course you cannot that hard and I believed him. And so it must have been like only four or five months after that I quit my job. I started doing more deals, making more money than I was at my full time job. And I was making a good $75,000 $80,000 grand a year and I was making more money, three months consistently flipping lease option deals like Todd taught and I thought this is it.

Joe: So shortly after that, it was funny, like I started doing a bunch of virtual assistants and Craigslist marketing and stuff like that. I called Todd up. I remember being nervous about talking to Todd because like he didn't really kind of remember me, you know, and but it was cool. We hit it off, became friends. Now I'm good friends with his brother, his two brothers. I forget how many brothers do you have, Todd?

Todd: I've got one. I've got four brothers.

Joe: So I only know, I only know two of them I guess. But anyway, I'm glad to have you on the show, glad to have you on the show.

Todd: Yeah, I'm really excited. And so one of my goals for this show, Joe, is that, you know, you kind of talked about, you know, wondering like, can I do this right? And you know, can I do my first deal? Can I have a full time, you know, can I have a full time career doing this? Well, my goal for you and the audience, who may be thinking, can I really have a business that runs without me? And so my new level of learning, my new capability that I want to transfer to your audience, I want to give you belief. I want to give you excitement. I want to give you motivation and I want to let you know it's possible to have a business that throws off cash month after month after month without your day today involvement. And not only why it can be done, but also why it must be done.

Joe: Yeah, totally important, really important. By the way, guys, we're broadcasting this live to Facebook and YouTube right now. If you are out there watching us live right now, please type in and say hello, tell us where you're from and ask questions. So if you've got anything, comments, or questions that you want to make right now, please submit them in Facebook and YouTube. And hopefully this thing that I'm working shows the chat properly. But please just type in say hello right now. Tell us where you're from and we'll dive into this. So Todd, one of the things that you're so good at, what we, what we wanted to really focus on is like how to remove yourself from hustler mode. Because it seems like people brag about hustling and it's just ridiculous. How do you get yourself out of hustler mode into business owner mode? Talk maybe first about your journey. Like, you know, you were in that hustling mode. How did you get out of that into your business? What was it like for you?

Todd: Well, you know, I mean when we first get into real estate, all we want to do is our first deal, right? We're looking for that belief. And so we go out and we do everything that we can, right. We send the mailers and we do the bandit signs or you did the door knocking or you did the referrals or whatever it is that you do or cold calling and you drive and you drive and you drive and you work the deal and you do whatever it takes. And of course it never went exactly like you planned it, but you get the check you get the girl. You know, you take it, you put a check on Facebook and you show it right and you have like validation. You're like, yes, yes, right? And then guess what? You have to do it all over again.

Joe: Every month.

Todd: Every single month. Now here is something that people refuse to talk about. Because one of my superpowers, everyone has their super power. But my super power is really getting the truth out of people, the full story, right. I gain a lot of trust. I asked the right questions, both the people in our Next Level Wholesale, Next Level Wholesaling a coaching program I do the same thing. But whenever I get anyone on a Facebook live or messaging, I ask them, I say, hey, look, how much money are you actually netting, right? And so what you find is that most real estate investors who are posting those checks, and by the way like there's nothing wrong with celebrating, right? Is that it's a constant grind, right? And they go from this, you know, the cycle of I'm going to send out marketing to, I'm going to wait for the to getting the deal and then I'm going to wait to send out my marketing before I do the next deal.

Todd: And this is a constant state of what comes first, the chicken and the egg and this anxiety, okay. So I used to live there Joe, to answer your question. I remember back in, it was probably 2011 and I was doing deals in the market was recovering and I stopped feeling bad for myself because of the crash. But I was working really hard and I looked over at my wife and remember I was full time at this point and I said, I don't want to go to work today. Well, the crazy part was I owned my own business.

Joe: You didn't have a choice, right?

Todd: Didn't have a choice, right. And right then and there I remember I was, my wife was pregnant with my son, Brogan. And I said, you know what? Like, I've got to change this. I've really, really, really got to change this.

Joe: What year was this Todd?

Todd: I think, well, my son is nine right now. So this is 2010, I think. 2010. So, you know, and so I made that decision, right? I made that decision that I was going to remove myself from my business. I didn't know how I was going to do it, right. But I made that decision. And so I hired a consultant to come in. He didn't really know anything about real estate and that was kind of cool. But he said, look, if you're going to systemize this right, you really want to pick kind of one thing and do it really well, right? Because that way you can train other people to do it. And you know, the process is simple and it can be done over and over and over again. So I was doing like an owner finance deals and JV deals and wholesaling and lease options and you know, you name it.

Todd: And so it was really hard for me to teach somebody that. And so I committed, I committed, I said, hey, you know what? I'm going to focus in on this one niche. And it could have been any niche, right? It could have been least options. It could have been owner finance. But for me, I decided to focus on wholesaling. So that was the commitment. So when you start, you have to commit and say, not only would I like a business that runs without me, but I must commit. Because what will happen is that if you don't do this, you will eventually burn out. You will eventually miss leads, you will eventually miss deals. And what was working before will not work because you are not operating at the same level that you were. The more that you do, the more you have to do in the words of Michael Gerber, right?

Todd: It's like this nasty snowball effect. And so I really want to implore on our audience here today that if you don't decide to build a team, right. You will eventually really, really, really feel that pain like I did. And so that was my turning point in my decision. The first level was the commitment.

Joe: That's good. You know, it's, what are some of the traits of a hustler? Todd? Taking too many calls themselves going to the appointments themselves doing the market?

Todd: I'll try to blow through these really fast, right. But you know, let's take a look at, marketing, right? So if all of a sudden you find yourself sending out marketing at the last minute, right? And you're like, okay, I got to sit on marketing and you're running in front of list source or you know, cold calling or whatever it is, pulling the list at the last moment. You're stuffing out marketing with this anxiety before this deadline, that’s probably a sign you're a hustler. If you're waiting to do a deal before you send out your marketing, you're probably a hustler.

Todd: If you don't have a spreadsheet that has a schedule in advance, you're probably a hospital, right, that's marketing. And by the way, I know a lot of people are seeing these symptoms and this is okay, right? The first, the first step to recovery is acceptance, right? So I've been there, this was me, I remember in 2010 being in front of the list source screen, right? For motivated seller leads, right. Taking calls at all hours of the night and the weekend. Letting leads sit in the inbox for a couple of days before getting back to them, right?

Todd: Knowing and having this sick feeling in your stomach that you need to follow up with people in your database. But not doing it because you're just tired of being on the telephone, right. So a lot of reasons why people see their conversion go down, right. Is because on direct mail or PPC is because they don't want to get on the telephone anymore, right. And they don't want to talk to any seller who's not ready to jump off a cliff if they don't sell their property, right. That's like the turning point. You've been in the business for four months. You're like, if this guy is not motivated, I am getting off the phone in 30 seconds, right. That's the sign. Go ahead.

Joe: I think one of the biggest signs is you're not following up and you're not making offers to every seller lead that comes in.

Todd: Completely, right. Of course. That's so easy if you have help.

Joe: All right, so what does being a business owner look like?

Todd: Well, a business owner. And by the way, you know, you took, there's an assessment, by the way, is it okay if I share that assessment, by the way?

Joe: Of course.

Todd: So if you go to NextLevelWholesaling.com there's an assessment actually, which will have you score yourself in those four areas. And so you'll notice some of the symptoms and there are lists under the symptoms.

Joe: I'm putting that into the, by the way, we're getting a lot of comments here people telling us where they're from, which is cool. And if you guys have questions, I'll answer. I'll ask them to Todd here in a minute. But NextLevelWholesaling.com there's an assessment there?

Todd: Yeah. So you can download the assessment and it'll have you rate yourself in the four core areas of your business, right? And so it'll have a lot of those symptoms also for disposition and account accounting, cashflow on accounting that's a huge one, right? And what I don't want you to do is that right now is you probably feel guilty and you're angry at yourself and shame because you're not doing X, Y, Z. Well, I want to let you know that this is not your fault, right? I myself, if I had to answer the phone right now, I could probably do it if my family was in grave danger and this was how I got them out. But it'd be very difficult for me to do all of those things. And so I think the word is like you've got to hustle more and grind harder. And that's not it, right. The fact of the matter is you can't do it and you shouldn't be doing as the owner. And so your job now is to say, what does this look like?

Todd: Well, now you have to get to a new level, a new capability and that's leadership, right? So now you're thinking, my skill before was hustling. My new skill, Joe is leading others, attracting them, training them, motivating them, teaching them, putting them in the best position to win. That is my job now that is the new me, right. That's the new me. And so that was, this took me a really, really long time to realize, right? Joe Rogan says this is me now, right. And I love that. And so what does that look like? Well, now my typical days, and by the way, there's always like new levels of leadership, right? So my typical days now are doing Facebook lives, right? And attracting people into our business, right? Their salespeople, right, that I see, I bring them in to our business.

Todd: I meet with our marketing manager, Brett, he reports all the marketing numbers. Here's the marketing I'm sending out. Here's why I'm sending it out. Here's the return. Here's what's not working anymore, right? By the way, that's very real, right? You've got to be on that, right? Here's what is working great. Keep doing that, right? Just a little bit of encouragement, right. And so empowering those people, right? If all of a sudden you see the numbers and conversion is in there, right, and conversion is basically you're taking the leads that you have, right? And is the money coming out? Is there an acceptable amount of money coming in and what are those trends look like? Now I can tell you about, you know, a lot of people like, oh my God, like I don't want to go through those numbers. I don't want to dig through my spreadsheets, right?

Todd: Guess what? Don't do it. Like I am not good at that I am not a bookkeeper. I've never logged into QuickBooks, right? I mean, I barely know how to use a Google spreadsheet, right? But if someone presents one to me at a set date once a month on my calendar and forces me to look at it without me having input any data, I feel really good about that. And I look at my team now and I say, okay, here's the data what's our next step? Now in my mind, I kind of know what that next step is, right? I see it. But now my job as a leader is now too always be encouraging my team to now make those decisions without me or make those judgment calls. And I know there's probably a lot of fear, by the way, going through your head. And I have all those fears too, so we can kind of review some of those fears on the show if that's okay?

Joe: Well, yeah, one of the things that somebody told me once when we were at the same mastermind a few years ago and this was a guy who had pretty big successful business and he told everybody there, listen guys, if you don't know your numbers, you don't have a real business. I was like, I was for it. I'd never heard anybody talk about it like that and straight up in your face, if you don't know your numbers, you don't have a real business. And I realize like, crap, I don't know my numbers, you know, I just look at my bank account, see how much money's in there and I know what I have to spend.

Joe: Like I just kind of know maybe the next couple of deals that are coming in are the next things I got going on. But man, I don't know my numbers as well like I should. So what are some of the numbers you need to know as a business owner? Like maybe what are some of the KPI's, key performance indicators and how do you, what are those numbers that you should be tracking?

Todd: Sure. So Joe, I'm going to address those, right? But let me talk about the real issue because a lot of people brag like I know my numbers and you can create a report in Podio, right? A report, like you know, it's a CRM where everyone has their customer database, but most of the problem, and I'll review the KPI's, but most of the issue there is that people do not set a date. They do not have the correct habits to act on those numbers. That's the real issue, right? So like to get the numbers is not that big of a deal, right? But what are the habits that we have as business owners so old habit used to be hustling. Well, a lot of times we'll hire teams or we'll order marketing, but we don't have a habit of reviewing and acting on those numbers.

Todd: So I really want to emphasize the habit of slowing down, getting out of hustle mode and reviewing those numbers to make decisions, right. So my action item for everybody is once you know the numbers, make sure that somebody else is pulling them and getting them in a spreadsheet that forces you now to review them. The simplest thing that you can do is on your calendar, just put them on your calendar just set a recurring appointment on the 4th Monday or 4th Friday of every month to review those numbers with someone on your team offsite, offsite. I'm sorry Joe, were you going to ask what the numbers are now?

Joe: Yeah. What are some of the numbers you want to track that's important to track?

Todd: Well, the biggest thing right now, especially, you know when the market getting more competitive right, is you have to know what the ROI is on your marketing campaigns, okay? That's really important. Now let me give you, everybody here a tip because when you're in a hustler mode, you're like, oh my gosh, I send out a mailing I didn't do a deal in 90 days, I'm going broke. Shut off direct mail, I'm moving to cold calling.

Todd: That's a real emotional decision, right? Real emotional. A lot of people that do that, right? Well, slow down Nelly, right? You need to be tracking those numbers over a, at least, at least a six month period and more like two years, right? I'm not saying that you need to wait to make any money for two years, but let's say you have a direct marketing campaign and you're like, Hey, I'm only getting a three and a half to 400% return on my marketing, right? Where you're like, Hey, let's throw that away. Well, maybe over two years that's going to turn into six. And so that's why one of the reasons why we've been able to remain strong indirect mail and not throw that out the window as the market changed. So that's the main thing.

Todd: The second thing is, what is your profitability per acquisition specialist. So if you have somebody working for you, right? Every, we have all this drama of like, what if they don't do a good job for me? Well, what's a good job, right? What is a good job, right? So determine that, right? So profitability for marketing per acquisition specialists and that's the number that we want to be looking at. Three for me is going to be a deal size, right? You always want to keep a very, very close eye on that because that is a massive, massive, massive predictor of a profitability. Massive, massive predictor of predictability. And the other number that I like to track is number of days from contract to close. Those are like the main four.

Joe: Interesting. Cool. All right, so somebody's out there, Todd. Well first before I ask that we were talking about fears just a minute ago, what are some of the fears that people have with going from hustler to business owner?

Todd: Well, there's a lot, right? So the first thing is, am I ready? Am I ready to hire somebody who can I afford this person, right? So I guess I'll list some and then we can address them. You tell me which ones you think are most compelling for the audience, okay.

Joe: Sure. Yeah.

Todd: So can I afford this person? Number two is this person's going to see how sloppy my business is, right? You know, I'm a fraud. I'm a fake, whatever, you know, three I'm not ready for, I'm going to create competition, you know, in my local market, right? Like wholesaling's is big secret. That's the other one. Five is what's the ramp up time, right? So those are like the main five or six, and then am I going to go broke? All of those things.

Joe: Yeah. So let's talk about, it's going to cost me too much money. I remember hiring my first virtual assistant worrying about, is this going to cost me too much money? I remember you pushing me hard years ago, four or five years ago with hiring a local assistant. I was like, oh man, I can't do that. But you know, I'm so glad I did. After I hired that virtual, that local assistant who worked and I got an office, my income and productivity doubled or tripled. I mean it was just, I was blown away. You can't afford not to build a team, right?

Todd: Well, so let me go back to that. Like you can't afford it. Well, I think the biggest thing is you want to get really resourceful, right? So one of the things that we do at Next Level Wholesaling is that first week we have everyone take a look at actual the marketing expenses. And you often find, because we haven't had like a laser focused, you know, bird's eye on this, that you're acting the people, most people are wasting like 40% to 60% of their mailing dollars, right, on lists that don't convert, right?

Todd: So they lump all of direct mail into like one pile, right? And then like, oh my gosh, I haven't done a non owner occupied deal in a year, right. Well you might want to get rid of that list, right? If it's not performing right.

Joe: And so you don't know that unless you track your numbers.

Todd: You don't know that unless you track your numbers, right? The second thing is that right now you are, so people are like, I can't afford to. Well, if you're spending like $3,000, $4,000, $5,000, $6,000, $7,000 in direct mail, right? Right now you are at danger of losing that money, that $7,000, $8,000 because you are overwhelmed, overworked, and not converting. So the very thing that you are afraid of going broke because of your hiring, you're actually going to go broke because you are not hiring because you're throwing away marketing dollars.

Todd: I don't know about you, but if I was a one man show dealing with seller leads at this point, I probably be going, right? So that is my, pet peeve. Now going broke here's the amazing thing is most people are obsessed with, okay, I'm going to go broke and this person. I've got to pay them maybe a $3,000 a month salary, $4,000 a month salary, $5,000 a month salary. And they think, okay, $60,000 for the year, I can't afford that. Well, the beauty of this is as you bring somebody on is you're going to know right away whether they're going to be productive like that immediate, you know, it's two, three weeks, four weeks, you're going to know.

Todd: So the most that you're in danger is that, you know, first, second, third month salary that's it, right. Now you're going to find that once you go all in, that you're going to see an immediate jump in productivity, right. And you're going to now to start to have this confidence like, hey, this was a really, really, really good idea.

Joe: So can you also, because we've got 10 minutes left Todd, and I want to make sure we're using our time here. Could you also go to the extreme, where do you find like how do you know when you've gone too far, you have too much overhead, it's too bloated and you're like, you're spending way too much money. How do you, how can you run your business efficiently like a well oiled machine where every piece is being used to its full potential? Does that make sense?

Todd: Yeah. So I've been there, I mean I've scaled up and scaled down, I scaled up and I scaled down, right? So it's, you know, it's funny, last year we actually scaled down, we still had a team, but it was one of my best years, not my best year, but one of my best years wholesaling real estate, right. And so the one thing that you want to take a look at is, is each person producing the revenue or the production that I need, right? Are they a functioning member of the team and do I need this position? And so you're looking at profitability. The first thing is that you're looking at profitability right? And if profitability is rising you're in good shape. If you see profitability dipping, right? Well now you need to keep a very, very close eye on what's going on.

Todd: And so many people, they'll get very emotional about what's going on. If you know the numbers, you can see what's going on and make adjustments accordingly, right. So I know some people who have big teams who are not that profitable, right? I know some people with a few people who are very profitable and vice versa. So the biggest thing is being on top of that, training your people getting maximum output from everybody, having everyone on the same train. And if you do that, you should be okay, right? If not, look at the numbers, don't get emotional, make decisions, right and the team will rise to the occasion.

Joe: That's good. That's good. One of the things I think people need to think about too is you know your numbers, this will become apparent to you. You'll see this before it becomes a problem. The bigger your business gets the smaller your margins get as terms of a percentage, right? So if you're doing maybe $100,000 a year, you're keeping maybe 40% of that for profits. When you start building a team of five, six people, you may be making a million a year, but your profits are going to go down to maybe 20%.

Joe: So talk about like, because you were at a point, Todd, and you mentioned this earlier, but you are doing 500 different things and you thought you had to do all of them and you hired this business consultant guy to come and look at your business. And he looked at each piece individually and said, well this makes sense, but why are you doing these other things like this? This doesn't make sense, right. Can you touch on that a little bit? Talk about the importance of focus and how when you focus, can you increase your profit margins? Does that make sense what I'm asking?

Todd: Yeah, I mean, so you know, one of my recommendations I mean at $100,000. I mean, you know, let me say this, you should be running at a 65% profit margin, right? So let me say that, right. You know, last year we ran at like a 43% profit margin I'll have to take a look at the numbers here in front me. But it was in the close to the mid forties. I, you know, I want to let you know that on a three person team, you can run $1 million wholesaling business above a 40% profit margin. So that's the cool thing about this business. And I want to reiterate that if you're not there, you need to make some changes. But you know, going back to your question about focus of course, right, because think about this is that as you hire people and you're doing a million different things, and I've been guilty of this, I don't do this anymore, but that person that you have in front of you is your most precious asset.

Todd: They will make you more money than any real estate strategy than any stock, than any house. This is the person in front of you. And so if you are in a million different direction, your team needs you to lead. And so when you were like, oh, I'm going to be, you know, getting, you know, flipping houses on Ebay, right? Versus now I'm doing wholesaling whenever this is right? Is that now your attention is diverted from your team and you're not giving them the training, the resources, the marketing, because you are over here and so you are not giving them your best and so that's going to divert everything. Now if you're a one man show, that's even more apparent, right? I mean you're doing five different things. Your marketing is probably a garbage show. And believe me, I'm not judging, I've been there, but I just don't do that anymore.

Joe: Todd, I am looking at your Facebook page right now. I want to do, if it's alright with you, another podcast, part two. Almost everyday you're on there doing videos and they're so good. Like I'm looking here, the secret to predicting and managing cashflow and bringing on a new hire, how to develop crazy confidence to jump to the next level. Is it okay to hire an aspiring wholesaler? You suck because you're scared of the pain and what to do about it. Smoking hot deal case study, live acquisitions training here.

Joe: You've got four easy, super easy steps to turbocharge your marketing and skyrocket success. Easy tips to stabilize cashflow, reduce stress, boost cashflow in your wholesaling business, rock star team members to close your deals for you. So you've got all of these good videos. What I'd like you to do, Todd, if it's all right, is on a next episode that we recorded together here because I got to get going here in four minutes. Would you be willing to share with us and just teach, like take maybe five of your best videos that you've done and just teach that stuff to us in a future podcast. Would you be open to that?

Todd: I'd love to do it.

Joe: We've just really scratched the surface and I don't want to go too much longer. I think there's so much more that you can teach us. But guys, go to look at Todd's Facebook page right now. It's called Todd Toback Lion Pride Real Estate Investing. Is the that the place they should go Todd?

Todd: Yeah, that's Next Level Wholesaling. Download the assessment and then catch me on Facebook. I publish those videos live and then we also upload those to YouTube to.

Joe: NextLevelWholesaling.com. NextLevelWholesaling.com. Then also go to Facebook because Todd does these videos almost every day. Todd Toback, just look him up on Facebook. You'll see his videos in their Lion Pride Real Estate Investing is one of his pages. Really good stuff there. Inspiring videos, you know, just real practical step by step. This is what you need to do. And I think it'd be good having Todd back on here. Maybe taking the five of those best videos and just teaching them again to us. I think that'd be good. All right, cool. Todd thanks for being on. We'll get off here and then reconnect in just a minute. Get you back on do another live podcasts like this.

Joe: We have been getting questions that have not even been able to answer them. So I apologize for you guys that have been typing in comments. Appreciate that. Keep the comments coming. Todd. We'll be looking at them as well in Facebook on YouTube. He can respond to them and answer any questions you have.

Todd: And Joe by the way, I promise, because I do want to really respect everyone who is watching. I'm going to I'll go to your Facebook page and I'll answer some of those questions.

Joe: Good. Nice. All right, so guys, this is The Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast. If you want to listen to this podcast again, if you want to get the show notes, if you want to get the links we talked about and the transcripts of this podcast, go to RealEstateInvestingMastery.com. Do a search for Toback, you'll also see the other episodes that we did. I remember one of my favorite episodes I've ever done on the podcast was when I was interviewing Todd about subject similar to this about hiring local assistance and a acquisition managers.

Joe: And I was getting bombarded with questions from my students at the time of like, you know, how do I hire somebody? There's so many features and all of that. What we did a podcast with Todd and we dove deep into that stuff and it was really good. So you can find all of that at RealestateInvestingMastery.com cool. Got to go, Todd, I appreciate you being on the podcast man.

Todd: Thanks, Joe.

Joe: All right, well have you on again and we'll see you guys later. Everybody. Bye. Bye.