Real Estate Coaching As A Business » Shaun McCloskey & Joe McCall

Intro:     Welcome, this is the Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast.

Joe:      Hey everybody welcome. This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast, and I’m with my good buddy Shaun McCloskey today. How you doing Shaun?

Shaun:    I’m good. How are you man?

Joe:      Awesome. Listen we just did five minutes of this and I forgot to hit the record button. So we are going to do this again like a complete dork. But Shaun, welcome to the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. And this is a podcast that I love doing. I’ve been doing it now for like four or five years with Alex. Alex couldn’t be here today. We have got listeners in over a 160 countries from all over Europe. And I love this business.

Today we are going to talk about something a little different than what we normally have talked about in the past. Normally we talk about doing deals, doing real estate, flipping properties, wholesaling things like that. We are actually going to talk about the coaching business today. And the coaching business has been very profitable to me, very profitable to Shaun, but the coolest thing is we’ve changed a lot of lives. I know Shaun, I mean I’m a part of life inter-coaching program that you and Steve Cook started I don’t know six years ago?

Shaun:    Yeah.

Joe:    Been a while and it changed my life. It’s made me a better investor. It’s made me a better father, a better husband, a better coach and so I owe a lot of my success, if you call it that, to this guy here that I’m interviewing Shaun. He is a mentor to me and a good friend and same with Steve Cook. And so you know one of the things we are going to talk– we are going to talk about the coaching business and the real estate information selling business. It’s a very profitable business and I’m not ashamed to admit that I’ve made a lot of money, well over seven figures in the last few years, selling, coaching, helping people, training them with courses, with products, and with coaching.

And I love the business because it allows me to help people and have an impact and change their lives and make a lot of money doing it, at the same time doing deals. So it’s not like it’s either one or the other. So you either as a coach, you are either doing deals with your students or on your own, or you are lending money on deals or and you are helping people to do deals.

So we are going to talk about that. And I wanted Shaun to come on and talk a little bit about his story, talk a little bit about how he got started doing deals. How he got started in the coaching business and why he enjoys it. And so just real quick though first, go to www.RealEstateInvestingMastery.com download the first cash survival kit, if you haven’t already, it’s a fantastic resource and leave us a review on ITunes.

If you like the show, please let us know. Leave us your review on ITunes and we will send you a bunch of really cool books and videos and all that good stuff. There’s a podcast we did a few months ago called “Leave a Review Get Free Stuff” and if you go to that search for it tonight in the www.RealEstateInvestingMastery.com website, it will tell you what to do, the steps to get involved and leaving the review, sending us your email and we will get you all that free stuff.

So Shaun, one of the things I love about real estate and the info business is that you can make a difference and help people. And it’s really easy to bash the gurus, and it’s easy to bash those people that are making money selling information. But you know I’m one that is proud to say you know I’m thankful for the coaches. I’m thankful for gurus, because if it wasn’t for them and if they weren’t willing to sell their information, whether it was a book or a course or through coaching, I would not be where I am today. If they weren’t willing to share their information, and charge for it, then I wouldn’t have bought that. I wouldn’t have learnt this business and I wouldn’t have been– I wouldn’t be where I am today without coaches. And why don’t you introduce yourself Shaun, and talk a little bit about your history. How did you get started in real estate way back when you were selling pagers?

Shaun:     You had to start with that, didn’t you?

Joe:    Yeah go on.

Shaun:     Yeah I mean first of all I grew with you man, and I think if you got a knowledge in your head that can benefit somebody else, why not benefit somebody else with it? Some people have this scarcity mentality that says, “I don’t want to share anything I’m doing with anybody else because I will create competition.” And I think that is a bunch of garbage. But in fact I found that out first hand, I’ll share this a little bit, but I found that out first hand when I started coaching back in 2008 or so.

I was coaching people in my own backyard. So technically my own competition, but I’ll show you guys today how to actually make money on that where you’re profiting yourself and benefiting other people too. I started out back in 2003, got laid off of a job I had for seven years, and learnt pretty quickly that there’s no such thing as certainty in a job. And I decided to go find my own certainty and create my own little destiny if you will. And so went out started flipping houses and in the first five years or so I flipped about maybe 250 houses or so, and I did pretty well. Then I got in the pre-foreclosure business and I flipped most of my stuff. I had a few rentals here and there.

But what I found is there was these periods of time where I would go out and I would sell you know, eight, nine, 10 houses in a month and then in the next month I would not sell any, or I would sell one. And so for me it was always like this constant battle between filling in the gaps of when I was going to do a closing, and that is something that you have no control over. You can control how much marketing you are going to do, you can control how many appointments you are going to try to go on, but you can’t control how many deals they are going to buy. And pretty soon I got introduced to coaching and the rest is history.

So now we do deals, we fund deals for people. I have a coaching program that I run with Steve Cook through our business Lifeonaire, and we help change people’s lives through that. But then we also do some lending for people. I own a REIA here locally. We try to help other people get what they want to get, and as a result we profit from it. I’m not ashamed to say I do because I love what I do. We’ve got students that have been with us for six, seven years and they don’t leave. Why do they keep paying for it? Because they are getting a lot out of it.

Joe:    And then I forgot to include that in the introduction. I did in the first introduction that I didn’t record. But I didn’t in the second one. Shaun and I have been friends for a long time, since 2006. You were probably one of my first coaches Shaun.

Shaun:     Actually you were my first round of coaching students back then.

Joe:    Yeah, you used to have an office at a store front. And you know you’d had come whatever weekday it was, and talked about real estate and talked about deals, and it was fantastic. You’ll talk more about that in a second here, but you started Lifeonaire in 2009, and I joined Lifeonaire without hesitation and it’s changed my life. Yeah, you and Steve Cook basically have changed hundreds, maybe thousands of people lives, with the book, with the seminars that you do, with the coaching that you have. And just the friendships that I’ve made from that, the connections, the network that I’ve made through Lifeonaire has been amazing. And it’s made me a better father, a better husband, and better coach, a better investor.

So I totally 100% believe in the power of coaching. I think it’s absolutely critical in this business. And the cool thing about coaching, and we will talk about this as we go through this is that it’s so leverage-able, right? You can make very good money doing deals, but sometimes it’s sporadic. It goes up and down. And if you have a heart to help people and to teach and you want to coach and make some good money doing that, then this is a podcast for you. And we are going to be talking about the coaching business. But Shaun talk about your journey in Lifeonaire quickly and how it kind of relates to the coaching business, and what have you learnt since starting Lifeonaire with Steve cook.

Shaun:     Yeah well so you know we all heard the word millionaire, everybody wants to be a millionaire. So what it is that they want is not just the money, it’s what they think the money is going to do for them. And so when we say we want to make more money this year, what we really want is freedom to make decisions, to travel to do what we want to do when we do it.

And so I don’t think we just want to be a millionaire, I think we want to be a Lifeonaire, right? We want to have a life in the process. And none of us want to build a business that makes millionaires of dollars that require us to be a hostage to the business where we have to work day in and day out and be there every minute of every day. I certainly don’t want that either. I love what I do, but there’s a difference between I get to do it versus I have to do it every day.

And so when I first started coaching, and this is like, this was total accident, I started hanging out with Steve cook who is my now business partner. He was actually my coach back then. And he would share his life and principles with me and there were some things that I was doing in my current business at the time that I was a little frustrated with. I had a real estate brokerage at the time. I owned–I had this big office building, this beautiful office building which by the way you don’t need as a real estate investor. No one comes at your house. You always go to other people’s houses. Okay, nobody come to your office I should say.

And so I had all these expenses going up the door, I was closing a lot of deals maybe 70 deals a year, but I had a lot of like upkeep to do 70 deals a year. I had employees and stuff and expenses and overhead and offers and all this stuff. So I decided to open up this brokerage; a real estate brokerage to try to supplement some of the downtime when I didn’t do a deal one month. And I had 16 real estate agents enter my office. Joe your wife was one of the first ones I had. And each of those real estate agents paid a small fee per month to hang their real estate license with my brokerage. And then we had two meetings a month where for about two hours all the agents would come in, and by the way these were all real estate agents that were investors. So this was not like we are out listing people’s houses. We were all trying to creative real estate stuff.

And so all of these agents were paying me $75 per month to hang their license with my office and then my office– my brokers were supposed to get a little percentage of any deals that they closed with using their real estate agent license, I was supposed to get a little piece of that and I was supposed to kind of supplement things. What I found was real estate investors who were also real estate agents are some of the most creative people on earth, and they do everything in their power to make sure no commissions go out ever anywhere.

Joe:    It’s a real polite way to put that. That was so nice. That was swerve. That was swerve.

Shaun:     I can’t blame them because I would the same thing, but the bottom line is the brokerage ended up being a lot of responsibility for me, but it didn’t end up being profitable as I would have liked it to have been. And so Steve introduced me to this concept called Lifeonaire, and we found out that the whole brokerage did not fit my vision for what I really wanted to do in my business and my life. It didn’t fit in so many ways. It was a lot of responsibilities. It was a lot of paperwork. If any deal went bad, it was going to be my responsibility as the broker.

I was the one who was going to get sued. I was the one who was liable for all these creative deals. And that might be okay if I was making a ton of money with them. But again the Realtors/investors in my office were creative and they found ways to skirt paying a commission through the brokerage, so I wasn’t making money on top of it. I was making 16 agents times $75 apiece. Whatever that comes out to that’s what I was making in the brokerage.

And so Steve said, why don’t you get rid of the brokerage? And my response was, “Man it took me a long time to build this brokerage. I got all paper work in place now, you know at least there’s some money coming in and I don’t want to just want to turn that off right now.” And Steve said, “Why don’t you turn those people into coaching students?” And I was like, “I don’t know man. What do you mean by that?” And he says, “You know instead of just charging them $75 a month to hang their license there, what is it that you are providing them? What is it that you like about the brokerage?”

And I said, “Man I love these two meetings a month where we sit down for about two hours at a time.” I said, “I love these meetings so much and I love helping the people so much that our two hour meetings usually go to three hour meetings because I just like doing it. And then we usually go out to dinner afterwards and I’m there for another hour just because I enjoy helping people get their deals done.” And Steve said, “Well has anybody during those two hour meetings, first of all do they all show up all the time or do you have to beat them over their head to get them to show up? And are they making money based off of what you are sharing?

And I said, “Yeah they all show up. Just about everybody shows up to every single meeting, everybody is there to the end, nobody leaves early and yeah there has been a number of people that have made some pretty killer money off of what we’ve shared in that room.” And Steve said, “Okay but you are not getting any of that and you are providing all the value.” And I was like,” Maybe. What are you suggesting?

And he said, “Go in tomorrow. Shut the brokerage down and give them 30 days to hang their license somewhere else. That’s where all the liability is. That’s where all the paperwork is. That’s where all of the stress is for you. You don’t even like even doing that part anyway. You like teaching and coaching and helping them, then turn them into coaching students. They can go hang their license with somebody else who can help them better in that department, but maybe you could help them get their deals done and so on.”

And I said, “Steve what are you suggesting I charge because they are only paying $75 a month right now and they already get all that stuff.” And he said, start charging them $400 and start splitting their deals for them…” that’s per month by the way“…and start splitting their deals for them.” And I was like, “No way. They are never going for this. They are absolutely no way no how. And Steve says, “Well, even if they don’t go for it, the brokerage is like the kill is hill to you, get rid of it. And if they stay with you as coaching students then are going to find out real quickly how much value you really provided to them. And if they all leave you are going to find out you didn’t provide the value that you thought you did.” And so I went in to the next meeting that we did, the very next week, and Joe I think you were there at this meeting?

Joe:    I remember yeah.

Shaun:     And I came in, there were 16 agents in the room. I said this is a mandatory meeting. You all just come because I’m announcing something.

Joe:    I remember that.

Shaun:     And I said guys the brokerage as of 30 days from now is being shut down. It doesn’t fit my vision. And so if you guys want to stay on as coaching students, here’s how it’s going to work. You are going to start paying me $400 a month instead of $75 a month and you still have to go hang out your broker license somewhere else, which means you might have another expense to do that somewhere else. But now you are going to pay me $400 a month if you want to stay. If you don’t I get that too. But in order for me to continue coaching you and helping you how I’ve been helping you, it’s got to work for me too and right now it doesn’t work for me.

So $400 a month and we are going to split your next deals together 50-50 and then after that you can decide if you want to continue paying a monthly and stay in then you have to split deals. But I did that and I could not believe it. Guess how many of the 16 people stayed Joe. Do you remember the number?

Joe:    15, I wasn’t one of them.

Shaun:     It was 13.

Joe:    It was good. I remember I think. I think I remember you doing something where you said listen if it doesn’t work that’s fine. But if you leave and you want to come back the price is going to be higher. And there was some kind of sign-up fee that you would have to pay. And that’s something that you talk about a lot when you are teaching sales and selling coaching and stuff, have that scarcity in there. It’s legitimate listen, “You can leave, but if you are going to come back, the price is going to go up.” And I think that did a lot. For me I remember it did a lot for me thinking, “You know what I better stay in this because I see the tremendous value in this.” The point is the value was way higher than the cost. And that’s why so many people stayed in.

Shaun:     And by the way this is where a lot of people get a bad taste for some of the gurus that are out there peddling stuff too, because sometimes the value is not there for what you paid. And in fact now that I speak– I speak with a lot of national speakers. I get to know them real well. As a matter of fact I coach a number of them today. And once you get to know them really well, most of them are good people at heart. But some of them turn it into such a money-sucking business that they’ve forgotten why they got into it in the first place, which is to make money.

But the really cool thing is if you have a strong desire in your heart to help other people then you can make it profitable. Profits don’t come in first. And people will smell that. If they smell that you are just a number to them, they are going to know that. They are not going to sign up. Or they are going to sign up and they are going to be disappointed. And the truth is if you really knew what most of these gurus lives look like, you probably wouldn’t want to learn from any of them anyway. There are some good ones. Don’t get me wrong. There are many good ones out there.

I have a coach myself and I pay a lot of money for coaches, but some of them out there kind of give the rest of them a bad name. If your heart truly is out to help there’s nothing wrong with profiting from it especially here. When I did my first deal split with one of my students, I’ll never forget this. This was only about a month maybe six weeks into my coaching program, 13 of the 16 people went from paying $75 a month to having hanging their license with my brokerage, to now I’ve got 13 of those that said yes and started paying me $400 a month at that point. That’s like $5,000 a month.

I started coming in every single month which subsidized some of my expenses when I had a slow month in my real estate business. It was awesome. And by the way I had some boundaries in place where I said listen, this doesn’t mean that you get my personal cell phone number and get to call me at 3:00 am when you have a question. I put some boundaries in place too of here is when you can call. Here’s how this works. Here’s how we are going to meet. And it ended up being a reasonable amount of time I was investing.

When I went out there and did my first flip with my very first student, it was Kevin. We went out and we did a pre-foreclosure deal together and I literally had– if I had two hours invested in this deal, that’s a lot. Maybe have about hour and half investing in this deal. I remember we split the first three deals with the students and I ended up making, well we I should say, made $86,000 on that first deal of which I had less than two hours wrapped up in. Now some people look at that and they go, “So you made half of $86,000 for two hours of the work? That’s not fair.”

So I sat down with Kevin afterwards. I said, “Kevin tell me, do you think, because you have been paying me $400 a month now for the last couple of months and we got our first deal closing and we just made $86,000, I get $43,000 of that, how do you feel?” And Kevin’s response to me, I will never forget this. He said, “Shaun, he goes first of all, I don’t know that I ever would have gotten that deal closed without your expertise. Second of all,” he said, “If I would have gotten it closed, I can promise you I would not have made $86,000.”

With a couple of things that I told him to do and to tweak his deal, he said, “I might have made $20,000.” So he says, “Instead of making $20,000, I got to split half of $86,000, I made more with you as a coach anyway.” And it was in that moment that I– because at first I felt bad for charging people. But it was in that moment that I was like, “Okay, maybe the value that you bring to the table sometimes isn’t how much time you spent on it. Sometimes– when you go to a doctor and they tell you what the diagnosis is, it may only have taken them five minutes to come up with the diagnosis, but it took them 15 years of school to be able to get that diagnosis in 5 minutes. That’s what you are paying for.

Joe:    Yeah.

Shaun:     And that’s why they are there.

Joe:   I was just thinking — and you can still see me okay, right? My Skype is flicking a little bit.

Shaun:    Yeah, it’s a little blurred but it’s good.

Joe:    All right, well, I was just thinking about that because just yesterday I got a check from one of my students. We are splitting a deal and part of the agreement was we split the first two deals. And this check was only $1,500 bucks, so he made three grand on it. But he wrote me this awesome thank you letter, and “Joe this is awesome, I couldn’t have done this without you.” And this made me feel warm and fuzzy like this is so awesome. $1,500 bucks, it’s not a lot of money for a deal, but that is a lot of money, I’m not complaining about that.

Just the fact that I got more blessing I guess, out of seeing how excited he was and how it’s making a difference in his life than that money he gave me. And he’s done 16 deals since January 1. So it’s been the last four and a half, almost five months, he’s done 16 deals. And he is splitting the first two deals with me; I should have maybe next time require more deals, splits for more deals. Let’s talk numbers Shaun, and is it okay if we kind of be an open book a little bit here?

Shaun:    To a certain extent yeah, go ahead yeah.

Joe:    You sell really-really well; you make a lot of good money from speaking and coaching. And I do well as well; I mean I do a lot of deals. I don’t know what the split is between what I’m doing in deals and what I’m doing with coaching, it’s very — it’s different every month. But I have made well over, almost — I don’t know what to share either. Well, I have made well over six figures, out of six figures seven figures, selling, coaching, and selling my course over the last couple of years.

And it’s been — sometimes I get a little embarrassed by talking about that because it is a lot of money. But I tell you what I love the coaching business, I absolutely love it. To get to talk to somebody, and help them when they are stuck like I have bought course after course after course, and I’m just completely overwhelmed, I have no idea what to do next. And since I have been there and done that, and I have coached other people, I know exactly what the issue is. And I can help them in a 30 minute phone call, to just radically, dramatically change their business. And help them break thorough where they can, you know what holy cow! If I just do that, then — and so I love that business, I love doing that more than I like getting paid, I like it — yes please.

Shaun:    Can I tell real quick. You just said something really important. So in the coaching and this is why I have a coach too. Sometimes when you are in your own mess, it’s really hard to see your way out of your mess. We just had a situation, myself and Steve Coke, in the last two months, where we brought our challenges to a new coach. Somebody who is not familiar with our whole business, I mean we brought it to a new coach, and we said, we want a whole fresh set of eyes to see what some of our challenges are to help us overcome.

We had conversation with the guy for about 45 minutes and he knew all the solutions to our problems. Now why did he know ‘em? They are some of the same bits of advice that we give our students. So he didn’t teach us anything dramatically new, he got us out of our own heads for a minute and he got those things that he could see very easily, because he is not the one in the thick of the forest if that make sense. And so that’s what we do for our students all day long, but sometimes even me man, doing it for myself, it’s a whole different deal.

When you have some kind of blockage in your own head, or you’ve got something in your own marketing that’s screwing up, you think you’ve crossed every [T] and dotted every I? You haven’t man, and the reason you haven’t is because you are so close to it. Sometimes you are so close to it that you forget that you didn’t push the record button on an interview like this. Yeah, little things like that happen, then we laugh about it, but that happens with all of us. Not just the brand new investor, it happens with the experienced guy too.

And so I don’t care where you are at and the level of experience, if you are somebody who has only closed ten deals, and you say well, that doesn’t qualify me to be a coach. It does qualify you to coach somebody who’s never done one, or who’s only done one. You’ve already done — have 10 times experience than somebody else, you don’t have to have flipped 300 deals or have a car. So be the national guru speaker, to go out and start helping somebody else. That makes sense?

Joe:    Oh, yeah, totally, it’s hard for me to be transparent about this, because it’s very personal to me. And I have made very good money some in coaching over the years. And you’ve done very well as well selling your life and hair products, your short sale products. Talk a little bit Shaun about — you are probably right now the best-selling speaker in the speaker circle going around the country. And you don’t even travel that much. You are very selective about where you go. Would you talk a little bit about, how well you are doing if you don’t mind? How well you are…

Shaun:    That’s odd.

Joe:    How much money are you making?

Shaun:    So well, let me encourage you with something, so when you have something of value that can benefit other people why would you not benefit other people with it? So I don’t like to travel 50 weeks here and go speak, but I do like to go about once every four to six weeks. We usually go somewhere whether it would be Real Estate Investor Asoosication or I have spoken on stages with Kiyosaki and some other guys like that. Why would I not take the information that I have struggled so hard to learn and help somebody else overcome some of their struggles.

And so all I did is I bundled that together in a package that kind of trains people on what to do. And then from the stage or from a webinar or from a number of different resources, I can go sell that training. You could do it online, you could do it through webinars, you could do it through just people visiting a webpage, and you guys have all seen this stuff before. And you can sell this information to people, where now instead of you having to go out and do one deal to get money, I love that approach by the way.

The Rose Davies is profitable and by the way she mentioned where I have assumed to have a problem gurus, is when they are still teaching stuff that they use to do 28 years ago and they haven’t done it in 28 years, that becomes a problem. So I’m not suggesting that either, but if you have information that’s in your head that’s valuable, especially if you’ve made money with it, there’s potentially even more money to be made in the information side of it than there is in the actual thing. And the reason why, is because there’s always so many deals that you can do, that you could physically do either in your own hometown or with your own hands or with your own marketing, everything else.

But there’s unlimited people– amount of people that could actually benefit from the product that teaches them how to do it. And so I can stand in front of a room of 500 people at once and offer a product and sell $100,000 worth of product in an instant. I can do that in 60 to 90 minutes. Excuse me I should have turned that one off. But that’s a little bit of the speaking business and that the information marketing business. Once you have information, if it’s compiled in a way where people can understand it, and it’s good then you can — so instead of one to one deals, you can do one to many.

And that’s where — I’ll give you an example I did — by the way this doesn’t matter if you are doing it, you are speaking to five people or a thousand people. Some people think well, the speaking business is only profitable if you are only speaking to big huge large crowds. I just spoke Monday of this week to a crowd of only 40 people. And I’m supposed to get the final numbers today but I did well over $30,000 in sales in about an hour and half. And I don’t tell you that to brag, I tell you because there was people in that room that need the information, they are hungry for it.

Now I need to understand how to deliver that message in a way that gets them excited and explains to them enough of the benefits where they are willing to part with their money at that time. And that’s something that I have kind of got good out over the years. A little bit of an art to that, but the fact of the matter is, those people are going to go out, take the information and it’s going to change their lives. And so why would I not be able to get paid for that? Absolutely I can, by the way I turned that trip into a vacation with my kids, because it was up at a water park up in Wisconsin.

And we turned my little speaking geek for 90 minutes into four day fun time at the water parks. So why wouldn’t I go do that? I can make a ton of money; I can go share what I get to share with people. I get to feel really good about the fact that they got the best training on earth, if they are going to pursue foreclosures as part of their strategy. There’s no better training than mine out there that I can say that with confidence, because I have seen it all. And why would I not — perfect, I mean you did the same thing, I remember last year or the year before when you were in Prague you were still helping and coaching people from Prague all the way overseas, back in the United States and even all over the world.

Why would you not do that? There are aspects of your life you get to live and — I remember Zig Ziglar always said a saying and I really sort of hanged in on this. He said, “If you want to get everything you want out of life, help enough other people get what they want out of life.” And that’s all I’m doing.

Joe:    Right, so Shaun what you are saying reminded me of something I heard Robert Allan say. Robert is the famous guru who wrote the book zero down — zero money down or something like that. He said, “I have made my millions doing deals. And I have made my tens of millions maybe hundreds of millions teaching people how to do deals.” And back to what I said before it’s easy to criticize and shoot down the gurus making a lot of money selling coaching. And there are a lot of dinger lings out there doing coaching that they shouldn’t be doing, right? Is that put it nicely?

Shaun:    I haven’t heard of dinger lings in a long time.

Joe:    Well, that’s not what we are talking about right? Don’t be a dinger ling, but you can make great money coaching and teaching, and helping people do this. And it’s so leverageable, you talked about being in Prague. We took two months trip to Prague a couple of three years ago, last summer we went for almost three months on an RV trip. I have made well over a hundred thousand dollars, just selling coaching during that three months. And we are going to Prague again in a couple of months for another three months.

And I’m starting to coach people now from all over the country. I’m doing a couple of workshops in Spain, with a friend of mine from England. And we are going to be teaching people in Spain, our workshop is five grand to be there for three days, ‘How to flip deals virtually.’ And so it’s — the cool thing about the business, the information business is that you can — it’s very leverage able, and you can train one on one, one to many. You can write a book, you can do a video series, do a podcast and really with technology today you can reach way more people, than people could ever have done before in the past.

And so with teaching and coaching you’ve been travelling a lot over the years, you’ve been speaking and selling very, very well. There’s a real skill and art to selling information, right? Selling and also performing the coaching and delivering on the value. But would you talk a little bit about the — what it takes to sell well, and then let’s talk about what kind of — what do you need to do to deliver what you promised that would be sold, does that make sense?

Shaun:    Yeah, let me give you a couple of examples because — so I actually teach a workshop about once a year, where I bring in national speakers and I teach them how to speak better, and serve better from the front of the room or in the webinars or if you are trying g to sell coaching on — and by the way I should mention, if you want to do coaching, you don’t have to have this whole product done and everything. If you want even speak, you don’t to have a product, one of my students Jason Roberts is out there, he is doing coaching and he is speaking and he doesn’t have a product.

Matter of fact when I teach people, most of the time I would rather them not have a product, because otherwise they tend to structure their product in a way that makes it hard to sell. So if they know what I know and what I can teach them in advance, then when and if they ever decide to develop a product they do it the right way. So let me progress with that but — so at the speaker’s selling event, I should say if I had a name for it I would call it how to speak and sell from any stage, any webinar, anything without being a total douche bag, that’s what I would call it, because you’ve seen it…

Joe:    I like dinger ling better.

Shaun:    There’s the dog and pony show that you see where the guy gets up, and he is super fake, and you could tell everything he is saying is scripted. And he is not even a real human being, it feels like — and then at the end he does this dog and pony show where he makes everybody stand on their head, and do all these crazy stuff. And then he tries to sell this package, and the first two people get a Mickey Mouse button and whatever. It’s the same dog and pony show we see all the time.

And so I teach people how to do it in a more real way where more of your own personality can come through, and you’ll sell better anyway. And so I do this event and I bring in national speakers, I keep it very-very small. And when people express interest in this, I have them put up a $500 deposit to reserve their spot. And then we have a conversation about whether or not it’s a good fit for them. Because this is one of those things that I don’t just don’t teach everybody, because the information can be used to manipulate if it’s in the hands of the wrong person. So I always want to make sure I’m interviewing these people before I allow them to come and get this training, to make sure it’s the right person.

So during the interview though, that’s also a sales process for me, because they have expressed interest, but they’ve not paid actually $5,000 to come to this, and it’s just a two-day, very little event. So to get people at par with five grand that’s — for somebody who is a national speaker that might not be a whole a lot of money, but for somebody who is just starting out as a speaker that might be a lot of money for them especially if they don’t know who I am. So the selling process is important and that also, it starts when I first made my first contact with them either through a sales letter, or through a video that I did, or Facebook post or whatever.

But then I have to actually sell them, when I get them on the phone and that process is the same whether it’s one on one. It’s the same whether it’s one to a thousand people in an audience. But there’s about 15 different things you need to do when you are selling a product, I’ll give you two of them here right now. One is you must overcome everyone’s objections before they have them. And so this is something Joe, we were just talking about yesterday, and is this what you are asking me to share?

Joe:    Oh, sure yeah, this is good.

Shaun:     Okay, so when you are speaking to one person or an audience you must overcome the other person’s objections, if they are going to part with their money and give it to you for training, or product, or course, or coaching, or whatever it is. And so I have to think through in advance what are some objections going to be when people hear what my offer is. And so when I have one live event that I teach in a room, so you physically have to be present like this.

And I’m teaching it to national speakers, and some gurus around the country and people are going to attend this and spend a lot of money to be there. What do you think the first objection is that busy people think of when considering whether to attend a live event?

Joe:    When’s the date?

Shaun:    Yeah, when’s the date. So I know that’s going to be an objection for everyone, so I have to figure out a way. Before I have those conversations, how am I going to overcome that objection? And so what I thought is, why don’t I not schedule a date? And instead what I’ll do since I keep this to a very small, intimate, and I only do this for 12 people at a time. I have the luxury of being able to say guys there is no date scheduled, here is what will do, once you’ve sent me your deposit and you decide that you are in, then I want you to do a second little assignment for me.

That is send me any blackout dates, of dates that you absolutely could not attend an event like this over the course the next 90 days. You are going to email that to me and once I get that from you and the other 12 people that register for this event, we’ll just pick some dates in between that work for everybody that aren’t blackout dates for all 12 of you. And it’s easy for me to do that with 12 people, I could never do that if I was going to host an event with a 100 or 200 people. But since I’m doing it for 12 people, of course I can work around dates that you guys won’t work around. So I just overcame everyone’s hop objection to this event so far as when is it? And I just overcame the objection, makes sense?

Joe:    Yeah, excellent.

Shaun:    So the second thing I’ll give you two there’s — depending on the presentation, there’s about anywhere from 12 to 15 things that you want to include in your presentation. Overcoming objections is only one of them. Second one would be you must have — you mentioned this earlier. You must have some kind of reason for the people to do it right now versus waiting and thinking about it for the next three months. Otherwise what happens is when people think about it they hesitate and when they hesitate, they think of all the reasons they shouldn’t do it, and then many people won’t follow through.

So I don’t say to use this stuff to manipulate, I say use this to get people to hurry up and make a decision that either what you have to offer is yes in fact for them, or no it’s not. And I’m okay with either one, I’m not going to sit here, you hear some speakers using this mind manipulation stuff and there’s even one guy out there that hypnotizes his crowd into saying yes, for everything. I don’t believe in that stuff, I think — but I do believe in getting them to a point where they can make a decision. And they can come from the heart and say yes, I either want what he is got or no and I’m solid in my no, and I’m not going to move forward right now.

Now I prefer they said yes obviously I have a product to sell. But in order to get them to say yes, there needs to be a sense of urgency for them to say yes or no right now. And it’s got to be a legitimate sense of urgency, it can’t be some fake bull crap that people have heard a thousand times before, otherwise they won’t believe you and then you lose all credibility on everything else that you’ve built rapport with them over who knows how long. Whether it would be a conversation, or a sales letter or a presentation in front of a room, whatever, so it’s got to be a legitimate sense of honesty.

So how do I build that into an event like this? It’s very simple, the event’s only for 12 people. So while I’m doing an event like this for 12 people, and I’m talking on the phone and I’m talking to my ninth guy. And I say just to let you know, I only do this event once a year, it’s for 12 people, and you are number nine if you say yes. And by the way if you don’t say yes, I have got another 16 people I still have to call back today, probably they will say yes.

So if you don’t want in, I’m okay with that, but you needed to sign quickly. And if your answer is no, I’m okay with that because I’ll sell it out anyway. But that gives the guy a reason or the girl a reason to either say yes or no very quickly on the phone. That makes sense?

Joe:    Oh yeah, and it’s really important because you may have the best product in the world and we’ll talk about here in a second how to deliver on a product like that. But you may have the best coaching program in the world, the best course in the world, but unless you know how to sell it ethically without manipulation, but unless you know how to present it in the best way possible so you can bring people to make a decision as soon as possible, then you’re not going to do well with it, and you’re not going to be able to get it out there to the many people that need it as possible. So you’ve been here…

Shaun:    Well here’s the sad thing Joe, is that some people are very-very good at selling it, and actually have a crappy course and so because they are so good at selling, it’s—McDonald’s is a perfect example of this. Their burgers are not good, they are not phenomenal, but McDonald’s is a phenomenal marketing company, they know how to get people in the door, to buy their sub-par hamburgers.

And so selling is really, you hit the nail on the head, you can have the best product in the world, but if you don’t know how to sell it, you’re going to struggle. Also selling is a big component of this.

Joe:    Yeah. That’s huge. So you can– it’s important to have a good product, it’s equally as important to know how to sell it.

Shaun:    Now, here, I’ll add one more thing to that, because when you are talking to an entire audience of a thousand people, you’re going to have different objections from people all over the room, right. So if you’ve got different people from different nationalities, color, race, creed, backgrounds, experience, all these things, so you got need to think through a lot more objections, and the sense of urgency needs to be more of a clear sense of urgency designed for a room.

When you are one-on-one, it’s a lot easier, so if you are selling coaching, I can actually talk to the person over the phone and find out what their objections are with the phone, by asking them. And by the way, this translates whether you are selling coaching to a student, a new student.

It’s also translates, if you’re trying to buy a house from a seller and you’re sitting across a table for then trying to buy the house, it’s the same stuff. But I need to overcome their objections, I need to create the sense of urgency, and then I need to really find out where they are at.

So this is where people are afraid to ask this stuff, before I get off the phone with somebody who’s either going to be a coaching student, or may attend in a bet like this with me, I’ll just ask them, “Where are you at right now? Are you ready to sign up right now or not?” And if they say, “Well no.” I’ll say okay, well number one, tell me where you’re at on the scale, 10 would be, like zero to 10 scale, 10 would be like you’re giving me your credit card number right now, zero would be this sucks, there’s no way I’m signing up for this. Where are you?” Because I know if they’re at eight, nine, or 10, that there’s probably just one more little simple objection that I need to overcome in order to get them to attend.

But if they’re five, they may have two or three objections. If they’re at zero, this isn’t for them at all. But I do want them to be honest, and I tell them listen I don’t want you to be nice to me, I want you to tell me so I can put it in my notes whether or not you’re seriously interested in attending this. And if they say no, I might say okay, why is it that you are a nine and not a ten, and they may say well because I’m at a nine, I want to do this, but I got to talk it over with my spouse first.

With that I might be able to overcome that objection, and say well that’s great because we’ve got a 30 days spouse guarantee, and so sign up right now that way we’ll reserve one of the 12 spots for you, because remember you’re number nine dude, I’ll make other phone calls as soon as we get off the phone, but here’s what I’ll tell you, if your spouse freaks out about it, call me back up any time before we do the event and I’ll just issue you your refund, I’m not worried about that, I just want to make sure you have one of the seats, does that make any sense?

Joe:    Yes, very good.

Shaun:    And so you have to– now, doing that one-on-one is very easy because I can ask that question. Doing it from the front of a room is a whole different experience, I need to be able to sort of preconceive what people’s abjections are, and be able to attack those within the presentation, or else someone will lose them.

Joe:     And you teach that very-very well. I’ve been to your workshops before; I think I’ve been to two of them, and– no just one.

Shaun:    One.

Joe:    Just one. Okay and it was fantastic because it’s important again. And I know– let me address this because I keep on thinking about this, there’s a lot of people listening to this podcast they’ve never even flipped their first deal. What we’re talking about is like what on earth, this is way over my head, okay so sorry, maybe just get to the next podcast, okay.

Just skip to the previous episode or something. We’re now talking to you guys out there who have done a lot of deals before, right, you already have an established real estate investing business. You know how to flip deals, you know how to make money, and now you’re thinking about how can I monetize my knowledge some more.

How can I help more people, listen I know a lot of guys who have done coaching and training for free, and it sounds nice at first, but I guarantee you, every single one of them after a few weeks to two and is like, this sucks, it’s fun helping people, but…

Shaun:    Well, and let me tell you why, because people appreciate and will act on things in direct proportion to the amount they paid for it. If I can interject real quick, I’m very passionate about this side because my heart says I want to help people and I do want to help people, but I’ll never forget this, years ago I sat down with one guy here and said here’s where I live, this guy begged me to take me to lunch and he wanted to pick my brain for an hour, he said my wife’s going to leave me, I’m broke, he said I’ll pay for lunch anywhere just please just give me like 45 minutes.

And so, my heart wanted to help him, and so I met him for lunch, and only instead of me meeting him at lunch at noon like he said, he got there at 12:15 and I’m already irritated, well, the reason he gets there at 12:15, he comes in sweating like a pig, because his car run out of gas because he didn’t have the money for the gas, just pulled the car and he get there.

So he walked the rest of the way to the restaurant. So guess who bought lunch, I did, right, and so I felt so bad for the guy, I ended up sitting there with the guy until the waitresses shift ended and we would pay for lunch, and then guess what, the dinner crew came in and I stayed with them through dinner.

I spent like seven hours with this guy all for free, and he had a full note pad full of just instructions and notes and everything, and I gave him the keys to the castle, I gave him a whole recipe, everything and I– when we left there I said, okay forget everything we talked about I just– now I teach I give three assignments, everybody can do three things, not everybody can do a whole note page, a notebook of the stuff.

So I gave him three assignments and I said call me when you’re done with those, and guess what, I didn’t hear from him again, until about 30 days later, we had our local REIA meeting, and I saw him at the rear meeting, and I approached him I said, what’s up men, where are you at with all the stuff you were so excited when we left that day and he looks down, and he’s like, yeah there’s still no thing that stuff works.

And I was furious, I mean here’s a guy who I just gave him everything, I gave him even at the time I was charging for coaching, and I gave him all of that for free, and he did nothing with it. Why did he do nothing with it, because he had nothing to lose.

So if you think you’re going to go out and change people’s lives with them having nothing to lose, let me tell you, if you have any amount of experience in real estate, you know that there are times when things are going to get tough, and unless you have a big enough drive and a motivating factor to get you pass the tough points, you’ll quit.

Sometimes the drive is having some financial loss if you don’t follow through. So I would rather see you put something in place that says put some money up front and I’ll give it back to you when you do some deals or something creative, but do not coach for free. When you do you’re going to get people who back out, they are not fun to coach, they’re going to be the people who when they go and it gets tough, they don’t follow through, they’re going to be the guys when you give all you time to and by the way, guess who bought him dinner that day too, I bought the guy lunch and dinner, and spent with him like six or seven hours with him, and he did nothing.

And yet nowadays I get somebody who pays me 15,000 dollars for coaching, and those are the guys that implement and girls. They implement 100 % of what we talked about, and guess what; they are the ones who get the results. Why, because they don’t want to have wasted 15,000 dollars on coming to learn something and then not implementing it. There are at least willing to go out and try it even if it goes against their comfort zone.

Joe:    Yeah and indeed there’s– it’s really important too thinking about an opportunity cost, the time that you as an investor are spending with students is time that you could have been spending doing deals and doing more marketing and talking to more sellers.

So there’s– it’s really important that you charge for your coaching that’s what I’m saying. If you have a product, it’s really important that you charge as much as you can for that product, and you– there’s a limit, you know what the market will bear, but what you have…

Shaun:    And it has got to be in direct proportions with what you’re giving too, so if you’re selling a course on how to make popsicles, you’re not going to sell it for 10 grand unless you’re teaching somebody how to create a popsicle business. Right, but if it’s an in-home popsicle kit that you’re teaching them how to create, that’s got a certain value, but if I’ going out and teach somebody how to make 30,000 dollars on a flip, or if I’m going out and teaching somebody how to go and do a speaking event, or create a coaching program where they’re going to make six-figures I can charge a little bit more for that, and feel good about it, because I giving them the keys to make a whole lot more money.

Joe:    Well said, so this podcast isn’t obviously for the beginner who’s just trying to do their first deal, I get it, this is a lot of you guys out there, you do a lot of deals and you want to start helping in coaching people, and you maybe don’t know where to start, you’re thinking well, what do I do first, do I– my own journey by the way I want to go back to this, I started coaching people for free, and I realized real quickly that’s a lot of work for just free coaching, so then I started charging $1,000.

Shaun:    Well, Joe it’s more work for the free people, it’s even more, because those are the people that are the hardest to coach, so sorry to interrupt but you are right.

Joe:    That’s true, and so I started charging $1, 000 bucks, and I realized what I’m offering is worth way more than that, so I started– and then I was afraid like, would anybody pay me three grand, I was like, no way I don’t think anybody would pay me that much for one-on-one coaching I would go and meet them, this was in St Louise.

I would meet them at the coffee store you know the coffee shop, and I realized again you know what my time is worth a lot more, I’m just showing them how to make three grand a week, right, do four deals a month, what I’m doing is way worth more than that. So I slowly started building my confidence up and start charging more and more, now we’re charging three to five grand for group coaching, ten to 20 grand for individual one-on-one coaching.

I sell my courses anywhere from 500 bucks to 1 000 bucks to more, and I’ve not seen, I mean as I– as long as the value is there, and I start pushing my prices higher and higher because I realize is that I have a limited span of time in my day that I can help people, I actually make more money the more I charge.

But let’s talk Shaun about real quickly starting a coaching program, I mean what does– there’s different ways to coach, right, there’s one-on-one, there’s group coaching, there’s local coaching, there’s maybe niche coaching on specific niches, what have you– what are some of the types of styles of coaching that you like?

Shaun:     Well, there’s all different kinds of ways to coach, but first of all I just want to reiterate that you don’t even need an audience, so some people sit here and say that’s easy for you, you own a rear there in St. Louise or you speak on stages, when I first got started I didn’t have any of that stuff, I built it up over the years, because I just enjoy it. But the fact of the matter is you can actually partner with somebody else who has an audience to offer whatever you’re going to offer, whether it be a coaching program or a training package or whatever.

There’s other people that have audiences and they’ll do joint venturing with you where you can actually promote whatever it is that you’re promoting to their audience, and then you’ll end up splitting whatever the commissions are, the fees or– you can structure it however you want, it may not be a 50-50 split, maybe you get 90% and give them 10%, I don’t know. Whatever it is that you negotiate, but you don’t necessarily have to have a built in audience either, what you need to have is a well-structured program and you need to know how to sell it, and when you have those two things and can provide enough value, then it’s a no brainer.

Even if you haven’t done it before, even if you don’t have experience in the actual coaching realm, and again I don’t want to make this to just seem like anybody can do this because not everybody should be doing this. Anybody could, not everybody should. So you got to have some value that you can actually provide your audience, but I like a couple of different programs, there’s the one-to-many program that you’re talking about where you can get on the conference call and you can coach, you can have 50 people on the call or 5,000 and it almost doesn’t matter because it’s you coaching many people on a process if you will.

You can do one-on-one stuff, where– which get a little bit more involved, I do have one-on-one coaching program. Joe has been in it. I’ve spent a lot of time with Joe over the past I guess six or seven years now…

Joe:    And look at where it got me. I’m just kidding.

Shaun:    Unbelievable. But you can do the one-on-one, I really enjoy that when I want to dig deep with somebody, but I’m very selective on whom I will choose to coach, because one-on-one you really get to know people and it’s no fun coaching somebody who never does anything that you encourage them to do. So I have some very specific boundaries that I’ll put in place with one-on-one and it’s not cheap either. One-on-one obviously…

Joe:    Those boundaries are really-really important.

Shaun:    Very important.

Joe:    And but we can spend a whole hour talking about that, but if you’re starting a coaching business, it’s really important you set it up right and you set up the right boundaries because they consume you, and pretty soon at the end of the day you’re like where did my day go and it just…

Shaun:    It can be the greatest thing you’ve ever done or been a part of, or it can be hell. And all of that is based on the expectations that you set with your students up front. I remember when I started Joe, I don’t know if you remember this, I won’t mention her name, but there was a girl in our program and she, within about three weeks of being in the program, she left the program, she was so furious because I would not give her my cell phone number because she was not allowed to call me 24 hours a day.

And she was mad because she is a night owl, and she said she wanted to be able to call me after 11 pm anytime she had a question. Now in the beginning I didn’t know how to set those expectations, and of course most of us will think, well, of course you can’t call me anytime you want at 11 pm, but unless you set those expectations, some people are going to think, hey just because I’m paying money I should have unlimited access to my coach.

I want to be there for my students more than anybody, trust me; I want my students to get the best results on earth. But it’s also got to be under the boundaries that make sense from my own life too, and if you don’t have those decided in advance, then you’ll set yourself up for a coaching program you are going to absolutely hate.

Joe:    Well, it also important to understand the — have a code of ethics, right. And I think this is something I borrowed from you and I still use it to this day. I have all my one-on-one coaching students now in a code of ethics. What parts– why is integrity important and what are some ethical things that– this is the line of demarcation that you can’t cross over and if you do you’re out of the coaching program.

So it’s important to think about issues of integrity and ethics and what’s okay and what’s not, and have that stuff written down with the boundaries in place, and the expectations in place so that they can sign it and know exactly what they are getting into.

Shaun:    Well and some of that is hard to figure out when you haven’st done it before, I mean I have done this for seven years, I’ve figured out what really works and what doesn’t work. Some of this will be a little bit of a trial and error for you in the beginning, and you’re going to learn real first.

But you must have those boundaries put in place. I’m telling you when I first started coaching there was a part of me that loved it, but I also always felt like I was indebted to people. Like if they called me that I should return their call within eight-and-half seconds, otherwise they’re going to leave the program, or they’re not getting what they paid for.

Now I just set those expectations up front so I– like with Joe, Joe is in our diamond program which is one of our top two high end coaching programs, and in his program, Joe comes to three retreats per year, which we do is physical retreats where everybody gets together in a fun area of the country, and I think we got one coming up next week, and while we are there, we get a lot of stuff down there, but in between retreats Joe also gets one 30 minute coaching session with his coach per month.

Now some of you might look at that and go, that’s it that’s all he gets and he’s paying X amount of dollars for this program. Well yeah, in Joe’s case, Joe doesn’t need help getting started, he’s not brand new, and actually that’s the person I would prefer to coach today.

Joe doesn’t need help with every little single step of the business, Joe needs help getting his mind out of the gutter sometimes, just like we all do. And so I can accomplish that in 30 minutes a month and get him right back right on track and get him right back in between retreats so that the retreats are where really the major change happens, and then in between it’s just kind of like maintenance.

But I set those expectations, now if Joe needed help during the month; I wouldn’t deny Joe help during the month. My heart wants to help him but the program says that Joe gets 30 minutes a month of my time. And anything more than that is not an expectation of Joes, it’s kind of like, a bonus if I happen to give it to him.

And so he doesn’t abuse that, I don’t abuse it either, if he needed some more help one month, of course I would sit down and help him, but that’s what the program says, and those are the boundaries that we put in place in the beginning, and that’s why it works so well.

Joe:    Yeah. And I think it’s important to understand too and you mentioned this before, you don’t have to have a national audience already.

Shaun:    Yes.

Joe:    You don’t have to have even a product already, in fact it’s better that you don’t many times, right, because when you learn how to create a coaching program, or how to position your product the right way, it helps you clarify what the coaching program needs to be or what’s going to actually be in the product, right.

So we talked– there’s one-to-one coaching, there’s one-to-many coaching which is like group coaching. There’s also coaching that people do in the local area as well. So like you don’t have to have a national podcast, you don’t have to be invited to go speak at all these rears all over the country, and I’ve been there, done that.

That’s just not for everybody, but we know some people who are in the life in that program and another program as well that are doing– having tremendous success right now, coaching at the local level in their own market, and partnering with students and we’re having deals. Let’s talk about Steve, and maybe some other people…

Shaun:    I do want to talk Joe, I want to profess with one thing, because there’s– I’ll talk about like Steve’s program here in a second, but I want to make sure that I’m not– I will give away as much of that as I can without– there’s a piece of that, that’s proprietary information that I cannot share on this webinar today, but what I will share is this guy Steve for example, we coach a number of people who do what he does.

He’s got a local coaching program, it’s just for local rehabbers in his area and he charges a monthly fee, he charges an upfront fee to be a part of the program, and I’m not talking cheap upfront fee, it’s $8,000 to $9,000 to be in his program. He charges a monthly fee to also be in the program, and then he rehabs houses with students, and he splits deals with them.

We got a bunch of students that actually do that. And at a local level it’s great because he’s a rehabber anyway. He loves what he does, he’s really good at what he does, and he’s already doing his own marketing, but Steve doesn’t want to do a ton of rehabs on his own. So this turned into him thinking, okay well when I get a deal that maybe I’ve already got one working right now I don’t want to take on two or three rehabs, why don’t I wholesale it.

And that turned into well, why would I wholesale while half the people and wholesaling do need help, they don’t know how to rehab it and get money together and other stuff, and he thought why don’t I just help them with it.

And so I’ll wholesale them the deal, but I’ll make them be my students. So he actually gets properties, he wholesales the deal to his students, now if you’re somebody that has a little bit of coin or some access to capital, you could also fund the deal for your student. Now you’re eliminating every excuse for your student to fail, so he would even fund it for the student, as a hard money lender, and he would charge fees and point for that, but then on the back end, when the property is rehabbed and sold, he now splits the profit with his students on top of it.

So he’s helping a new guy get the business up and running that he would not have otherwise been able to get up and running as easily. Because Steve is sharing his contractors with the guy, he’s sharing a lot of the recourses, he’s coaching the guy through the first three or four deals, but Steve is getting paid an upfront fee for it. He’s getting paid monthly for it. He is making money on the hard money lending fees, if he needs that, and on top of it, when the deal closes, Steve gets half of the back end.

Joe:    Everybody wins, you know…

Shaun:    This is a beautiful, beautiful thing to do. And Steve doesn’t go speak around the country; he doesn’t even have a product. Matter of fact, he partnered with us at Lifeonaire, and he said – because we have a rehabbing product, and he said; hey guys, can I offer your training products to my students?

Joe:    That’s a great plan.

Shaun:    And I’ll just have that to be included in the upfront fee. I’ll pay you guys a royalty for being able to use your products. He doesn’t have any of the products, nothing. He got this up and going in time. You don’t need a product. He didn’t need to have an audience. He had to create one there locally — which I can show you how to do that too, that’s not a big deal. But all these things that you may think that you need, you may not even need them. And it’s hard. I’m telling you right now, that is a highly profitable business.

Joe:    I love that.

Shaun:    That’s scalable, because there’s only so many rehabs that you could physically do on your own. But you could coach. It is easy to coach a dozen people in your own local area on doing rehabs, because they’re doing 90% of the work, you just coach them through the process.

I’ve got one of my students that coaches people up in Wisconsin, last I checked I think he’s got maybe 36, 32 or 36 local people in his coaching program all of which are paying an upfront fee, all of which pay a monthly fee, and he does deals also with them on the backend. They wholesale their students the deal, if the student can’t find a deal on their own, they help them by wholesaling a deal. If the student doesn’t have money, they help him put the money together, and they either get a little spiff from a hard money lender they refer the student to, or they become the hard money lender, and they make money there too. It is insanely profitable and they freaking love it.

Joe:    They do, and this guy Steve we’re talking about does a video testimonial of this lady that did this deal, and just in tears. I mean watching the video tears me up, you know it’s like all of these smokes you know. Just the – we’ve been blessed in the United States. And blessed in our businesses as well with prosperity, with a lot of really good knowledge and training that we’ve invested a lot of our own time and money into, right? Hiring our own coaches. So you know, I love this business, because we can now share and help other people, and get paid for it as well because it’s worth it.

Shaun:    Sure.

Joe:    Which we’re deriving tremendous value. All right so, Shaun and I have been talking about helping people do this. Shaun has got a lot of experience with the speaking from a platform, creating a sales presentation, and converting people, and then creating a product that fits that, right. We need to – it’s important to go in that kind of an order. I’ve also have a lot of experience doing webinars, creating online marketing funnels with podcasts, with webinars, with email auto responders, and building a list and selling information online.

Shaun’s – Shaun a lot of your courses still are online, but they’re started off kind of with a physical product as well. So Shaun and I have been talking, you know, I get requests all the time from folks, people telling me; you know what, I want to start a coaching business. In fact you’ll be surprised Shaun, I can’t tell you how many people, at least a dozen people that I’ve interviewed on this podcast, over the years, have started coaching businesses because of the podcasts. They get contacted by people.

In fact there’s a gentleman with a large – that I interviewed a couple of times. And somebody from a large national news channel, television, who’s on TV all the time, contacted him, didn’t contact me, contacted my guest and said; hey, will you help me do deals. And I heard John Joe’s podcast, and he said; yeah sure. And this guy has done like ten deals. He’s probably making more money doing deals than he is doing the news, unless he’s making an ungodly…

Shaun:    I know who you’re talking about. This is a national news celebrity. If you said the name, everybody on this podcast would know who it is.

Joe:    Right. Doing deals with one of the guys on my podcast. And so we have spent a lot of time talking about coaching business and how to do this, so it can be insanely profitable, and you don’t need to have a huge list. You don’t need to have a product already. You do need to have the knowledge on how to flip deals, right?

Shaun:    Yeah.

Joe:    And everybody has their own special niche. It could be wholesaling, it could be rehabbing, it could be short sales. It MLS deals; finding deals on the MLS. Maybe social media and online marketing, and getting deals from Facebook ads, and Google ads, and things like that. So there’s at least options – there’s dozens and dozens or different niches that I think everybody who’s been doing deals is good at something, and they have other people around them that want their help.

So Shaun and I have been talking about doing a workshop together. And we’re still trying to figure out the details, and we’re still trying to work out how we’re going to deliver it. Its either going to be a live workshop in Saint Louis or its going to be done online over a period of six to eight weeks, but it’s going to be a small neat group. Can you talk a little bit Shaun about what we’re thinking of doing and maybe how this might fit for people listening to this?

Shaun:     A little bit, but so much of it is undecided yet, but I’ll just share what some of the thoughts are, but you know we get requests all the time. I coach a lot of coaches now. Matter of fact I’m starting to get a nickname of the coaches’ coach, because a lot of the people that we have been coaching have become coaches over the years. And if I’m being totally transparent with you, I get more today out of helping people, than I do flipping houses. Not to say that flipping houses isn’t profitable, I just – you know when you flip a deal, there’s that moment that you flip it, and you get your check and you’re all excited and it’s an awesome feeling. So don’t get me wrong.

I still like that, but there’s something really awesome about seeing a family’s life change because you taught them something that they used and now they are in a different financial position than they’ve ever been in. Or you know, with what we teach and coach and share at Lifeonaire we’re not just teaching flipping houses stuff. We’re not just coaching on that, we’re helping people how to run businesses that serve their lives. Where people that were working 70, 80, 90 hours a week before, are now working 20, and they have time to go and ride the boat with the kids and go on vacation and travel, and go to Prague like you did. And you know take a three month trip in the RV. All that stuff is to me why I do what I do.

So we don’t have a structure for this yet. Right now, all this has been is a conversation with Joe and I, where I have said to Joe; I’ve got so many people that are dying to have information on how to design a coaching program. Do you ever get that? And Joe is like; yeah I get that all the time too, so we are considering putting together some kind of training, but we want to see if there – or gauge if there’s interest in this first.

And we don’t know what is going to cost yet. We don’t even know when it’s going to be, but we decided, you know; number one; let’s do a podcast to at least enlighten people to the fact that this might be something that they – if you’ve got a little of experience – Again this is not for everybody, but if you’ve got a little experience in something that can benefit others — and it doesn’t have to be just real estate I should mention either, then you may be able to turn that into a program that you can coach other people through, and you can make really good money doing it.

How we’re going to structure that yet? I don’t know exactly, but right now the purpose of this is to hopefully entertain a little bit. Hopefully give you guys some good nuggets that will get you thinking in a little bit different way than maybe you’ve been thinking in the past, and also maybe, are you going to setup a page or something where we can kind of gauge people’s interest. We haven’t even created the page yet guys, I don’t even know what’s going to be on the page, but we want to see from you guys what you’re interested in learning more about.

Do you want to learn more about speaking? Do you want to learn more about how you can create a coaching program? Do you need to learn more about how to close people where you’re actually developing a presentation, or you’re actually selling people on how to get into some things like these? Maybe you already have a coaching program, you’re already doing well with it, but you don’t know how to get more people into it. So we’re kind of trying to gauge what you guys need, so that we can determine, number one; if we want to create something for you. And number two; if we do we’re making sure we’re creating what it is that you guys say that you want, instead of us just thinking that we know what you want and being wrong.

Joe:    Yeah, so what I’m going to throw together a page. And this page will have a survey on there, so you can tell us what you feel like you need the most. We want to gauge kind of your experience and where you’re at, and see if there’s any interest in that. If there’s not, that’s fine. But I have a page it will be at JoeMcCall.com/CoachTraining. JoeMcCall.com/CoachTraining, and if you also go to the show notes, RealEstateInvestingMastery.com, look up this episode, you’ll see a link to that. But I think it’s going to be – I’m excited about that Shaun. I think it’s going to be so much fun. And I get requests all the time, I think this is exactly what people need out there.

And I’m excited about this especially getting to do it with you. I can – you know, I’ve known you a long time as a friend, but you’re also a coach and a mentor to me, and so I’m quite humbled to actually be able to help people with you in this. And I’ve – I tell you man, I’ve been so blessed over the years and I feel like this for me is just something that I can give back to people now, and help them grow their real estate business, their coaching business, and help everybody make a lot of money, and travel. Listen, let’s do this; I’m going to Prague in a couple of months, let’s do a workshop in Prague. How about that?

Shaun:    That’d be cool. Listen – I’ll just kind of wrap up by just saying one thing. It’s one thing — and all of you, even if you’re brand new, I hope that you listen to this till the end. If so obviously you’re hearing me right now, but when you’re brand new, it starts out with; me, me, me. And this is kind of how life starts out too. Where, when you’re a baby, it’s all about me. My two year old – it’s never about daddy or mommy, it’s about what do I want right now. And that kind of happens when you’re an investor too. You’re out there; you’re trying to build for me, me, me. And that’s okay, there’s a season for that.

But then eventually you graduate and it starts to turn into instead of trying to consume everything you can and get as much as you can, it starts to turn into what can I become in this process. And you start to become a more savvy investor. You start to become somebody who knows how to do deals better, you know how to negotiate a little bit better, maybe you know how to flip houses a little bit better, or rehab better, or whatever your thing is, and then eventually it goes from what you become to now what you can give back. And that’s kind of what we see in life also with many people. Not everybody.

But I think the true joy is when you can start to give back, and for me, I still love the real estate business, don’t get me wrong. But to me I mentioned this earlier, I love helping other people now to get everything that they want, and my focus has been changing in the past year, to where instead of just focusing on people who just want to make an impact on their own financial life in their own real-estate business, I’ve now started to coach other people who want to help other people in their businesses as well. So it went from me just helping myself, to me helping somebody else, to now me helping other people who can now help other people.

And I’ve got to tell you man; it is so much fun to see now the levels of people that I’ve helped, four or five levels deep, and I’m not taking credit for it, I just stumbled across something that happens to work, but to see some of these stories that are happening four or five levels deep of somebody that I’ve coached to coach someone else, these stories are freaking believable. And I hope, if you get anything out of this call, even if you’re not ready to become a coach now, I hope you aspire to one day at least make a difference in the lives of more than just you and your family. Because it’s so much more rewarding, and if you can get paid really well doing it, by all means go for it.

Joe:    That’s awesome. I couldn’t have said it better. JoeMcCall.com/CoachTraining and we’ll also have a link on the show notes for this podcast episode, at RealEstateInvestingMastery.com. Thanks Shaun, this has been fun. It’s been a lot of fun, I’ve tried so hard not to say stupid jokes, and make fun of you…

Shaun:    We did pretty good. I know.

Joe:    We did. Those who really don’t know what I’m talking about, that’s okay, but Shaun and I are always going back and forth being dinger lings. Thanks again, man. We’ll talk soon.

Shaun:    Yeah, man talk to you soon.

Joe:    Bye, bye.

Shaun:    See you.