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Gavin is joining us from England… the Midlands where he grew up. This episode is a free coaching call. Some people submitted questions ahead of time and we’ll start with some of those. If you have a question, you can submit it during the show. And if you would like to have us work with you to jump-start your business, apply to attend one of our two-day implementation workshops.

The workshop sets you up with the systems you need to get moving. You get a VA to work with, leads, automated methods for communicating with and tracking leads. It gives you a great start.
These notes contain mostly questions… just a few answers. Watch or listen to the podcast to get the answers, plus dialogue between Gavin and me. Questions others ask are surely the same ones you have.

Watch our compilation of case studies and coaching calls listed below. These sessions have a ton of great information and examples of what others are doing to succeed in various types of markets.

Q: Why should I use REI Simple as opposed to any other CRM? I use Realeflow now and it’s effective and inexpensive.
A: If you’re already using another CRM, don’t change. Use what you’re comfortable with.

Q: I’ve seen a couple of your webinars about lease options. What are the differences among your various seminars on lease option?

Q: Please talk about responses if you’re asked why leasing property is better than selling it? This guy really needed to sell his property.

Q: I’ve known about lease options for a long time. People not in real estate shy away from them. I’ve heard many objections about them from both sellers and tenant buyers. How do I get around this?

Q: If the seller already has an exclusive listing with a realtor, how does the seller do a lease option deal with me? What paperwork do I use? Should we pass on sellers who are listing with realtors?

Q: What skip tracing company(ies) do you use?
A: Need to Skip and Batch Skip are the ones we set up students with at Implementation Workshop… I primarily use Need to Skip.

Q: What paperwork do I use for lease options?

Q: We use a service for scraping Zillow and Redfin and loading info into Podio. Can we do a similar upload with REI Simple?

Q: My main problem is setting up the back office to support sales and marketing. If I have $500 a month to spend on back office, should I get a VA or spend it on marketing?

Q: My biggest problem is making offers on MLS-listed properties without proof of funds. How do I work this out?

Q: I was thinking about approaching realtors and property managers to see if they know any tenants. Is that a good tactic?

Q: What do you think about using ringless voice mail?
A: Not a fan… people have been fined and/or sued for using it.

Q: Should I set up a DBA or should I set up an entity? I have not yet done a deal.
A: First, make a deal, make offers, talk to people, and meet other investors. Everything else is secondary.

Q: When selling one of my deals, how do I get proof of funds from potential buyers?

And there’s more. The answers to these questions definitely will be helpful to you. Joe and Gavin provide specific information about challenges investors like you are facing right now or next week.


Listen and Learn:

What’s inside:

  • “If you’re not making offers, everything else you’re doing is stupid.” (quote from a student)
  • Have an investor-friendly attorney review your contracts.     
  • Remember your role in deals is marketing and selling, and let others perform their roles.
  • Stay focused; don’t jump from one strategy to another.

Mentioned in this episode:


Download episode transcript in PDF format here…

Intro: Welcome. This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast.

Joe: Hey everybody. Welcome. How you doing? Joe McCall in St Louis, Missouri. Gavin from, where are you right now? Gavin?

Gavin: I'm in England. In the Midlands. So, right in the middle of the country. Nowhere near a sea.

Joe: No, but this is where you're from, right?

Gavin: Yup.

Joe: Good, good. And right now, it's a record setting temperature of like what, 95 degrees Fahrenheit or something like that.

Gavin: Yeah. Yep. It's still like 94 it's the hottest day of the year. And they say that maybe in parts of the country it could be the record. Um, but I don't know if they'll get it, but it's hot enough with no AC.

Joe: Like, here's a crazy thing. Nobody in England has air conditioning except maybe the stores and the malls or whatever. So, it's just crazy. Um, so everybody feels sorry for Gavin. Say awwww so sorry it's 95 degrees. Sorry.

Joe: So, hey, everybody. Welcome. This coaching call here is, um, our free coaching call. We do it maybe… Well, we just said this is our second or third one. Gavin and I like doing these things because we want to tell you guys, we just want to give you a little taste of what's actually in our coaching program and how we work with our clients. We help them solve their biggest challenges, we help them evaluate deals and we help them get going and get started to do deals in the quickest, fastest, easiest way possible. Right? All right. So, guys, what we're going to do here is we asked everybody to a submit in advance any questions that they had. Okay. So, this is our free coaching call and we asked everybody to submit their, some of their challenges, their biggest challenges and they did.

Joe: And we're going to go through those first as we go along here. But do you want to encourage you guys as we're going along, this is going to be an interactive call. Um, maybe an hour, maybe an hour and a half. Don't know. But, type in your questions in the chats and the comments. And do me a favor, like when I give you a link or a URL, if you can type them in the comments as well, I'd appreciate it. That way people don't have to type it down. They can see it in the comments, maybe click on it themselves. Okay. Um, and like the first thing I want to tell you, here's this link. So, somebody typed this in the comments please. Joe McCall.com/apply.

Joe: Gavin and I have been coaching together for about three years now. And it's been amazing. Like when we first got started, when I first got started coaching, it was more just, okay, this is advice. Like we would talk to them and tell them what to do right? And that worked well. But we, people were still struggling to get started and they were, they were struggling with some of the most simple, basic things like building their systems out and getting their marketing started and having a hard time coming up with a marketing plan. And which lists should I target and how do I find a VA and which CRM should I use, how should I set up my like websites and all that stuff. So, Gavin and I decided, you know what, let's just do it for them. Let's get them set up, let's do it for them, let's get them in to Saint Louis or wherever and let's do a two day implementation workshop where we will actually like roll up our sleeves and just implement this stuff for them so it's not a complete done for you thing, it's done with you.

Joe: And we set it up, twist the, you know like the, the, the, the dial thing so that it builds up and then it goes whatever, whenever you call that thing like your car…let's just get it set up for them so they can get to where they want to go faster and easier than if they were to try to do it on their own. And so, we only work with a few handfuls of clients maybe once a month, once every two months we do a two-day workshop where we get you all together. We've got 10 to 12 people in there and we're going to set up your stuff for you. And we're going to, in that two-day workshop, actually give you leads and right then and there we're going to get leads. We're going to get the system set up.

Joe: We're going to get the marketing going. We have clients that leave that two-day workshop with leads and appointments waiting for them at home. It's just crazy. So, we're going to set up the CRM. We use something called REI Simple, which is amazing. And we're going to get the marketing lists. We're going to schedule out, we're going to do the skip tracing. We're gonna do, we're gonna get a view, give you a virtual assistant to do the cold calling. We're going to go on Zillow and craigslist for you. We're going to show you how to send out the texts in REI Simple. It just takes a couple seconds and you send out hundreds of texts. Um, and then, we're going to help you with direct mail. If you want to do direct mail, find you the buyers and, and, and then Gavin and I are available on Voxer anytime you need us for questions, you can ask. We'll answer them on Voxer. Three times a year we do a small mastermind where we get our current clients together. We work with them. We partner with you on deals. It's pretty amazing. Literally, I'm not exaggerating here. There is no other coaching program like ours for what we charge. It's ridiculous. We should double our price. Gavin and I keep on talking about that. Maybe we will. Um, but like for what we offer, no one else does it and has the results that we have. I mean, trust me on that. Do you have any… You want to say something real quick?

Gavin: Yeah. Um, so Joe is exactly right guys. You know, when we, when we changed, we were doing a lot of coaching and from case studies to group to setting it up. So, I've kind of seen everything and people in this business, just like anything, if I try and relate everything in my life back to sport, okay. Cause I was a golf professional. So, discipline, dedication, you know, words like that and, and people that we worked with in our businesses… To set up a business takes a long time when it's brand new, like I've got to research the market, I've got to get the CRM and I've got to get apps in and then I'll need to text some, who am I going to text? Where do I get the number? All this takes weeks and weeks or months and you still haven't spoke to a seller, right?

Gavin: And so that means it needs to be done. You got to speak to sellers, make offers and follow up. And if you do it on your own, can you do it 100% there's tons… This coaching calls going to help you. You can do it. We have free information on the podcast. Really good stuff. You can do it all on your own. 100% nothing. We don't leave anything out. But you can't beat the speed of implementation, right? By us doing it, you know, we try and run as a rule of thumb, five to 10 days, two weeks max, depending on how much data, how much we're doing with you, everyone's different, to have a full business ready so you can operate the phone, make offers and follow up. And if you're doing that within a couple of weeks, just think the learning curve that you're going to be to getting them deals closed. Um, and that's kind of why we do this model. It's an improvement. You know, I've been doing this, this model probably now to 18 months, um, and it's by been the best thing that we've done.

Joe: Nice. Yes. And we're going to be sharing a lot about our systems and stuff here. We believe in the three keys to success in this business, marketing, automation and delegation. And we're going to be talking about that here. So glad you're here. Really, really am. So, this call is for you. And again, if somebody can type in the comments, Joe mccall.com/apply. When you get there…I'm going to show this to you right now. I'm going to go to that website because there's something really cool. We have a special thing on there that you need to check out. What this is guys is, um, it's more than just an application page. We have some case study videos on here that you really need to watch.

Joe: This video Gavin and I did this a few months ago of how he grossed over 150 something thousand in the last couple months in a competitive virtual market without any direct mail, without talking to any sellers. All, everyone was saying the market is falling, it's not working. You can't do deals here anymore. We did this video, we break it down step by step, exactly what we did, how we do our cold calling, what we say to the sellers, how we close those deals, how do we get our boots on the ground. So, watch this video. If anything, you get some good nuggets out of that.

Joe: And then you can apply to work with us here. But also, down below we've got a great interview with Rachel and Matt talking about how they're doing deals. There are some of our clients, most successful right now. They're doing real well. We talk about what and how they're doing deals. We also interviewed a guy here, uh, Gary Proctor and this is a guy who's doing a lot of lease options. He's focused, hyper focused and uh, we talk about how he's doing deals. We answered some of his questions here. It's like a free coaching call and an interview at the same time.

Joe: Phil Marsh, this guy is awesome. He's doing deals in Springfield, Illinois on this podcast; it's about an hour long. I'm telling you guys, these are not case study videos that are just pitching coaching. They are like awesome, awesome content where you're going to get such good ideas out of this and things that you can start doing right now in your business to do deals even if you decide not to work with us. Okay? We're all about giving, giving, giving here. This is one of my favorite podcasts that I've ever done with Phil Marsh. He's in Springfield, Illinois, small little town. The whole county has only 200,000 people and he's crushing it right now because of hyper hyper focus. And he brought this phrase up and I loved it: “Perfect focus brings clarity”. And we talk about how, you know, anything in this business is it's just marketing and making offers. That's all that matters.

Joe: And one of the things we talked about here is like everything else is stupid. Okay? If you're not marketing, if you're not talking to sellers, if you're not making offers, everything else is stupid. So, if you want to hear us talk about that, go watch this, these videos here. And then our previous coaching call that we did where we actually evaluated like three or four or five deals, the recording of that is here. So, you can watch us and see us evaluate some deals. And again, at the bottom of the page, I've just, I don't… I think we're giving them too much, Gavin. Hopefully you guys don't get indigestion but you guys gave us so many questions, we couldn't answer them. So, we did three separate videos, averaging about 40 something minutes of us going through and answering all of your questions.

Joe: So, go to JoeMcCall.com/apply and uh, we will add that, um, you just got to go check that out. Alright, so now what we're gonna do is we're just going to go and start answering some of the questions and objections. I have it here on my spreadsheet as we go through this here. Um, somebody is asking here, why should I use REI Simple as opposed to any other CRM? I'm using Realeflow now and they have numerous website templates as well as an extremely inexpensive direct mail program, 35 cents per postcard. They aren't specific to these options. Okay, so, cool. Here's the thing. If you're already using another CRM, don't switch. I mean, it's fine. It's REI Simple is what we use. We love it. We actually white labeled FreedomSoft and customized it for lease options and specifically for what we're doing. I think it's the best CRM out there… By far the best and I've looked at all of them for two big, big reasons. The phone stuff is integrated very tightly in it. 

So, you can make inbound and outbound phone calls inside of REI Simple. You can send inbound and outbound texts, it records all your calls and keeps it in the lead, each phone number, you get your phone numbers there. So, it replaces CallRail in number but also replaces a DocuSign and you know, SignNow HelloSign, those digital signature companies, it replaces all your websites that you have. But the coolest thing about it is the document management. So, if you have a realtor's contract that you want to use or you want to start using your own letter or your own cold sale contracts, there's no other CRM that I found that does a better job of bringing that in. So, you can really quickly and easily create your own documents and contracts right from the CRM and then send them out to email or send in the physical mail to the sellers right from the CRM.

Joe: So, it's pretty amazing. Good. That's why we like it. Now if you're using our Realeflow, that's a great tool, right? And FreedomSoft doesn't do a direct mail like our Realeflow does. But again, you can, you know, if you're going to use REI Simple or FreedomSoft, you can still get your mail done. Um, you can do one offs, you can have them do your postcards for you. It's a little more expensive or you can just use a mail house like what we use. All right, somebody is asking here, they've seen a couple different webinars. I've done a Webinar in the past for some wholesaling lease options stuff and then I'm doing my new Webinar for a simple lease options, which costs a lot more. Um, somebody is asking what is the difference between my wholesaling lease options training and my simple lease options training?

Joe: Because I get this question a lot. This is a good question, William. The main thing is, um, uh, I used to have three different lease option courses, wholesaling, lease options, sandwich lease options and virtual lease options. Okay. Well you just combine it all into one called simple lease options and we're focusing more heavily now on the sandwich lease options because on those deals you can get the big $30,000, $50,000, $60,000 pay days. You still make good upfront money but you now are also getting cashflow and cash later. So, the thing I love about lease options is you get three profit centers, cash now, cash flow and cash later. Okay, good.

Gavin: Just want to add to that real quick, the positioning of doing that, that also helps for the assignment lease option, which what we call the wholesale lease option. By positioning yourself in the correct way, you will also be able to then get assignments easier signed with the seller if you position right.

Joe: Yes. Next question is a good one and we'll dive deeper into this because this is about how to talk to sellers and Gavin, this would be good for you to talk about. One of the great things I like about Gavin, why I brought him on is he's so much better at talking to sellers than I am, right? I don't like doing it. One of the things I do is I outsource that and that's why we tell people, hey listen, that's the last thing you should outsource—talking to sellers. You should be doing that yourself. But Gavin is really good at training people how to talk to sellers and keep it super simple and how to pull away so you're not chasing them. You get the seller to chase you. Right? That's super important to understand and remember. All right, so this one, this is from Tom.

Joe: Please talk about responses when asked, why should I consider leasing my property versus just selling it? So, when, if you're talking about a lease option, they say, well, why would I want to lease it? I just want to sell it. I was taken for a loop when a person who needed to sell asked me this question. So it was, I guess they're saying here it wasn't a want-to-sell, it was more of a need-to-sell. I didn't try to convince them, I just played it cool. But honestly, I felt quite incompetent. And being new at this, I don't like this feeling.

Joe: So, a couple of things here, Gavin. They’re new. They're new, they aren't comfortable with feeling like incompetent, like I don't understand the answers.

Joe: And this is probably a for sale by owner, I'm imagining, and a seller. The seller is like, well, no, why would I lease it? I don't want to do a rent to own. I just want to sell it. So, what are some of the things you would say? How would you tackle that?

Gavin: Yeah, absolutely. So, first thing is, um, if you ever get stuck, I just want to highlight this. If you ever get stuck, make sure you have questions listed right and you ever get stuck when they ask you a question, you just say, good question, but let me ask you this and then ask another question that's going to then get you off that subject and onto another one. So that's just a quick to, to direct the conversation, but to actually answer you.

Gavin: So, if I'm talking to a for sale by owner, um, and they say, well, why would I want, do I want to do that? I just want to want to sell it. The first thing is obviously we're seeing that there's very limited motivation. Um, so I'm just at this point going to agree with him. Well yeah, but let me ask you, it looks like it's been on Zillow for 30 days, a week, whatever. Um, see what he says. Yeah. We've just listed this great house. Okay, well let me ask you this. What are you going to do if it doesn't sell? That is going to be a lead question to find out. Then I'm now setting up for a follow up call. So, what, tell me this, what are you going to do if it doesn't sell? They will probably say, oh, it'll sell. It's a great house. It's only been listed a week. Yeah, it looks like a great house and I'm pretty sure it's going to sell as well. But let's just say it didn't sell. What would you do? I'm just curious, would you lower the price or would you rent it?

Gavin: Well, I can't lower the price, I'm probably going to have to rent it. That's all, that's all I need to know to know that I can now transition that into a lease option over time. Okay. So, I'm not talking about the strategy, I'm not going to talk to him about the benefits because he's not there yet. This thing has just come onto the market. Okay. It's going to sell. He believes that. I'm telling him it's going to sell, but I'm just throwing it out there. Then if it doesn't, what would you do? He's now agreed I'm going to have to rent it. Okay. Well, so if it was Joe, look, Joe, you know, uh, like I said, it's great house. I think it's gonna sell. Um, but do you mind if I touch base in a week or two and just see if it's sold and then 95% yeah, no problem. Of course, you can. Okay, great. Well, look off the phone. Okay.

Gavin: Now at this point you can make an offer. You could position yourself to say, well look, I'm John, we're just going to make you an offer anyway. I understand you don't want to rent it but I am interested. I'm going to make you an offer any way. You could make an offer and do a follow-up or position to get back on the phone. Um, now you can play with it too. We're very good in our business with follow-up. Um, we like to think that we don't miss anything, but if you guys are not organized, make the offer. Get something out because it won't get done. Right. Um, and then when you get back on the phone, here's the big thing with follow-up. So, when we do that, we make notes. Okay? So, in your CRM or REI Simple, whatever you're using, take notes, what the seller said, “no motivation, thinks it's going to sell, doesn't want to rent, it doesn't want to do this…” Blah, blah. Okay, no motivation.

Gavin: Now when I call back, right, this is the key. When I call back, hey Joe, how you doing? It's Gavin just checking in about one two three Main Street. Uh, is it still available? Oh yeah, it's still available. Oh, it is. And I thought, I thought it would've sold by now, what's going on? Do you have any interest? While I thought it would sell… So now what I'm doing is, I've got my notes, I've talked to a lot of people, so I can't remember Joe and what happened. That's why I rely on notes and then I look and say, okay, before we had this, now we've had a slight shift. It's not a home run yet, but we've had a movement of, well I thought it would sell, you know, I think it will and but I thought it would've gone by now.

Gavin: It's real strange… It's hot market here. Yeah, I'm surprised too. So you know, I know we talked about it before, you didn't want to do it, but you know, would you be interested maybe in, in, like I said, rent it to me for a year or two and, and potentially get close to that price and then you lead in again. No, I think I just need to sell it. Okay, no worries. Now guess what, the third time when you follow up, you're going to get the deal. Right? So, you're eliminating everyone else, you're building the trust in there. And you can get it. If you position lease options and sandwich lease option, go low, go low cashflow, right? Because all you're doing is making the assignment, when you go there, a lot better, that's all you're positioning for. It's so easy to get assignments signed is the easiest out of cash. Cash is hard. Sandwich lease options can be hard, assignments in position, right? You back them into a corner where they can only say yes, that's it. There's nowhere else to go.

Joe: Gavin and I were doing deals in Jacksonville, Florida once and me from St Louis, Gavin was in Phoenix and we did a bunch of marketing, got a ton of leads. Like I was just blown away how many leads we got and I forgot how, I don't forget, but sometimes it's like this is easy, but getting leads is easy. Anyway. So, we had a couple acquisition guys that we had hired, um, that were more used to cold calling and not actually responding to leads. Right? Um, and they were just doing horrible with these leads. And weren't working. Um, so we had a hundred and something cold leads… Cold. They had marked as dead. Right? Maybe it was like 90 something. They had marked these dead Gavin…. We were just frustrated with it and Gavin got on the phone and I forget the numbers. Gavin, do you remember within the first 30 or something you, you locked up four deals?

Gavin: Yeah, we got three contracts in seven days and I did about 5%, five to 10% of the follow-up just from positioning, from their notes. They've already done the work so I just come in and just, and sometimes here's the thing guys, you can, you're not in corporate anymore. So, you can just be bluntly honest. Like I go in and say, Joe, I don't know what to tell ya. I'm just going to give my advice. You don't have to sign anything with me. But they say you can't sell this thing. Sat there for 90 days. It's too high. You should, this is what you should do, Joe. Put $20,000 in, put a new kitchen, new bathroom and you'll sell it. Let's do that one, $20k. What you gonna say? I've got $20, I've got $20,000. Oh, you have it? So again, positioning, right?

Gavin: I'm not selling them, well, that's what it truly needs. So just be honest with them. Um, and then again, when you transition and that's what happened… There was an old guy, Florida, good area and we got seven leads and picked up three and the one deal that was good in this we got signed. It was an older guy. It's actually sad story. Uh, we got it signed. We had about 90 tenant buyers interested within the first five days of marketing because it was priced right. I don't know if you remember Joe, he passed away and we actually sent it into probate. Um, I mean this thing was, it was, we were going to make $5,000, it was just going to be fast, but he passed away. But anyway, um, positioning, price is right, okay? Your terms, your terms and your price need to match.

Gavin: If you're overpriced and over rented, it won't move either. So, don't just… You have to go price or terms. If the seller, this happens all the time, hot properties worth $50,000, their being crazy and want $200k. The house is worth$ 200,000 and they want $240k, right? No chance i's gonna move. Okay Miss Seller, no problem. We can do the $240k…10 years. We'll be able to cash you out. What do they do? Oh No, that's, I'm not doing that. I want to do a year, but we can't do that. It's not going to get appraised. I wish I could give you$240k. I would, but I'm not going to put someone in that property where they're not going to qualify. It's not going to happen. Um, so unless you come back down to 200,000 and we do it over two years, this isn't going to work. Straight pull away. Honest to the point. And now they got decision to make, right? And then the negotiation starts. You just a, if you learn control and positioning, sales become then easy because you're not actually selling.

Joe: And sometimes the easiest way to do that is to pull away, and we talk about this a lot, right? Just pull away and say, this doesn't sound like it's going to work for you. That's okay. It's removing yourself from the outcome. You understand the importance of that. Remove yourself from the outcome. You're not chasing them. You're not the desperate motivated buyer. Your just like, you know what? This probably isn't going to work for you. That's totally fine. You should probably just list it with a realtor. I got some realtor references. When you do it and you take that positioning, you're, you're really actually helping the seller. You're helping the seller; you can never be accused of trying to take advantage of them because you're just giving them all their options. All right? You're giving them all their options. We're getting some people typing in some good questions here in the comments. We'll get to them, but I want to be going through the ones that came, that were submitted earlier.

Joe: This is a good question. It's a longer question. I'm going to read it because this is really good. This is from Dolores. Uh, I've known about lease options for quite a while, 10 or 10 plus years. Many people, that aren't in real estate or in the dark about it and they shy away from it. I've heard many objections to it on both sides, doing the business and potential sellers, many real estate…

Joe: By the way, a lot of the people… Sometimes lease options get a bad rap. And let me address this real quick. And it's frustrating because the reason why it might get a bad rap is because people are doing them wrong. Number one, they're not setting it up where everybody wins. The seller has to win, the buyer has to win and you, the investor has to win.

Joe: So important. Okay? So, you have to set them up for success. You can't, I don't recommend doing lease options on junker properties, on properties that are under $100,000. You are asking for trouble. Trust me on that, right? Just do owner financing or make cash offers. Don't do lease options on, on junker property. You should only be focusing on lease options in homes in the median price range, right? So, in the Midwest that might be like $125 to $250,000 let's just say. No, it's not an exact science. Like I'd still go a little bit below or above that. But like you want to focus on the median price range. That's number one. Number two, the reason why lease options get a bad rap. They're not setting up the buyers to win. They're just putting people in who have the most money to put down. That's a big mistake.

Joe: I've heard other gurus do this, talk about it and say, I'm just going to get the first person that has enough money. Hopefully they don't buy the house, cause then I can kick them out and get somebody else in there and collect a new option deposit. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is the way I've done it and I've taught it for years and years. This is important. Pay attention because if you do this, you're gonna, you're gonna win, you're gonna make a lot of money in this business and sellers will be happy. Buyers will be happy. Only put people in your houses, in your lease option properties that have a realistic chance of getting a mortgage in six to 12 months. You only put people in the house who can't afford it. So, it doesn't matter if somebody goes to me and wants this property and they have $20,000 to put down and I'm only trying to get five, but they've got 20.

Joe: I look at their credit and there's no way they could get a mortgage in two years. You know, maybe five after they pay off this $200,000 judgement or unpaid child support and alimony or whatever. So, don't ever put people in your properties that can't afford the house and don't have a realistic chance of getting a mortgage. I like to go six to 12 months. So, what does that mean? Well, they need to put down three to 5% up front. They need to have good debt to income ratios. They can't have a bunch of really stupid, uh, like they, if they can't pay their utility bills, then they can't afford this house. Yep. So, you've got to be working with a mortgage broker that tells you when they look at this application, yeah, they can get a mortgage in 12 months if they do this and this and this. I'm not promising anything, but yeah, we can help them if they maybe they establish some credit or pay these bills, these credit cards down, or um, you know, distance. They need to be distanced themselves, but you know, another year or two years from this foreclosure or short sale or bankruptcy or whatever. Right.

Joe: So, uh, this a good question from Dolores, but like anything, typically nine times out of 10 bad things that you hear about lease options are because people aren't doing them right. They're doing crappy homes and bad neighborhoods or they're putting people in these homes that they should have never put in them in before. Okay.

Gavin: That just goes on that example that I just gave, the $200,000 and then trying to sell it at $240k in a year. If you've got $10,000 down your $30,000 over the appraise value, no one's ever going to get a mortgage. So, you can't… Even if it's gonna work and you have someone wanting to pay that, you're setting someone up to make $10,000 yourself when they are never going to get that mortgage in a year's time and you can't… You've got to sleep at night guys. You know you've got to do it the right way.

Joe: That's good. So, Dolores has more questions, but it's all kind of related to that. So, I'm not going to read the rest, but I think that will help you, Delores, and helped a lot other of you. Kay is asking some questions here. If the seller already has an exclusive listing with a realtor and that says the agent will receive a 3% commission, how does that work if the seller wants to do a least purchase with me?

Joe: Really simple. You got to remember this; the seller pays the realtor commissions. You don't. So, don't worry about it. Simple as that. Like if a seller, somehow if you find a seller, seller calls you, you contact a seller or you find a property and you just got to make the offer, make the sandwich lease option offer, preferably it's… Usually it's mostly most of the time easier to do a sandwich lease option than lease option assignment on a property that's listed.

Joe: But just make the offer on the numbers that work for you. Don't worry about the realtor commissions, you're not paying it. The seller is. Now sometimes though, you need to give the seller at least one month's rent as an option deposit because when the seller with the listed property decides to lease their property, they usually will pay the realtor one month's rent commission and you can tell them, you can work it out with them, but maybe you can pay the rest if and when my tenant buyer in the house buys the house in one or two years down the road. Does that make sense? So, people get tripped up about this a lot. Don't worry about it. Just make the offers. If the seller wants to do a lease purchase and the realtor, you know, I let, I make them figure it out, I don't get in the middle. I don't want to be involved. That agent doesn't represent me. I'm just making my offer.

Joe: Let's say the seller wants to do it. Which paperwork do you use? Well, it's up to you. You're the one making the offer. Use your paperwork. There is no law that says if it's listed, that seller has to use the realtor's paperwork. Now, the realtor may say, I'm not gonna do this deal if they don't use my paperwork because I'm going to be liable and all that, that's fine. But you know what? I've heard this from my own… I have a license, right? If the seller, if you're representing the seller and the seller is adamant that we use this per certain amendment or this contract or paperwork or whatnot, right? That realtor, if they really wanted to help, that seller could go take that paperwork, give it to their attorney and say, hey, is it okay with you if we use this?

Joe: And if the attorney says, yeah, it's okay, then it's okay for the realtor. Good. But anyway, don't overthink it, right? Just make the offer. You may have to wait till the listing expires, but just make the offer anyway for the numbers that work for you. Don't worry about the commissions. Let the seller and the realtor figure that out. And by the way, don't ever try to go around a realtor. Don't try to get the seller to cancel the listing agreement with the realtor. That's not the right thing to do. So, the other part of our question is, should we pass on sellers that are already working with realtors. Maybe, I don't know. Sometimes you know, one thing you could do is you could go into like Redfin and find properties that have been listed for 90 plus days if you're not an agent and send a letter to the owner. Right? Um, now I just said don't go around the realtor, but like if you're not an agent, there's nothing that says you can't send a letter to the seller and you might even put into the letter, Hey, if you want to do a lease purchase, go ahead and share it. Show this letter to your realtor if you want to do that.

Gavin: Yeah. The thing is as well that you could have asked if it has been on 90 days is a, I normally ask the seller what agreement do they have with a realtor? When is that agreement expired? And if it's a two week, two weeks or something, then I'll just say, well I'll contact you after and just leave it there.

Joe: Okay, good. The other question from Kay was about skip tracing. We use a service called Need2Skip in our coaching clients… Anyways, sorry. Our coaching clients, we give them a really significant discount code. We can save a bunch of money. We use a batch skip tracing, I think. Right. And maybe just mostly Need2Skip. Yup. Um, cool.

Joe: Sam is asking about the contract. Okay, so lease option contracts. This is confusing to a lot of people. Um, in my courses, if you have my course always in the first module, I walk through an example deal from beginning to end explaining all the contracts. There are different ways to do it. Some ways are better than others. What I like to do it is, I first give the seller a one-page short offer form. It's a one-page contract that has the lease and the option on one page and it's a nonexclusive option so they can cancel it if they sell the house before I buy it.

Joe: So, it's not a big deal… before I find a tenant buyer. Um, once I find a tenant buyer, then there's more paperwork. Typically, if it's a sandwich lease option, I'm going to sign a new lease option paperwork with the seller. And usually if I'm gonna stay in the middle, it's just one document—a least and an option agreement together. But it's like three pages long. When I find a tenant buyer, I'm going to sign a separate lease and a separate option agreement with that tenant buyer… Separate lease, separate option agreement. And there's some other things like a seller's disclosure statement. I want to make sure you get it. And you might even want to do a sale contract, a purchase and sale agreement with the um, uh, with the tenant buyer. Uh, if it's uh, um, sometimes we're talking about realtors. Uh, I've used the realtor's contracts before for my lease option deals.

Joe: You know, I'll use the realtor's lease and I'll use the realtor's purchase and sale agreement. I'll just put a closing date two years in the future on the sales contract, not a big deal if it's a wholesaling lease option deal, if it's a lease option assignment, I do the one page short off a form with the seller that's just gets the ball rolling. When I find a good tenant buyer, pay attention, I sign a new lease and a new option agreement with the seller. And then with an assignment agreement, I assign those two documents to the tenant buyer and I'm out of the deal. So that's how the paperwork works there. If that was confusing, just rewind this video later and listen to that again. And you should always, yes, you should always have an investor friendly realtor or an attorney review your contracts. Um, I always recommend getting an investor friendly attorney to review your contracts. Of course. Yep. Um, do you wanna add anything to that, Gavin?

Gavin: Yes. Coming from the person that started, was scared to death of contracts, of owning a house and not knowing what to do. You will learn in this business you have to look at what your roles are, right? As an investor, what are your roles in this transaction? Your role is sales and marketing. Your role is not, um, contracts because you have an attorney, you're paying the attorney, so put them to work. Your role is not a mortgage broker. How do I, how do I get this tenant buyer, buyer qualified. What do they need to clear up on their credit? What do they need? I have no idea. That is my mortgage broker's problem. So, the people that are getting paid for that position, you have to put to work, right? Because they won't, they want you to do everything and then just get paid.

Gavin: But you can't allow that. So, use the people in their professional, um, position too and put them to work. You know, the title company, put them to work to clear title, whatever, if it's a cash deal. Um, it happens all the time guys. Is that, I don't know how to clear title. Guess what? I don't need to know. All I need to know is I've got a discounted property here; I've got a lease option here and I've got a buyer here and we need to get this thing done. Guys, what paperwork do you want me to use? Start asking them questions. What paperwork should I use? Here's my contract. Do you need to change anything and let them guide you in that professional position?

Joe: Yep. And by the way, if you want us to help you with the contracts and like he said, hey Joe, I got this great seller that's ready to do a deal today. What do I do? There's an app called Voxer. And on this Voxer app you can reach me or Gavin and within, well depending on how, if, if we're on Voxer or not, within seconds we can answer your question so we can help you with all these contract questions and even partner with you on deals. If you want to just go to JoeMcCall.com/apply if you want to work with us. On that page, just real quick, if you're new to this video, we have about four case study videos on there where we interview, we talk about our own deals that we're doing, what we're doing. We interviewed three students that are doing deals, what they're, you get a lot of gold nuggets and value out of that.

Joe: And we have a replay of our last coaching call that we did where we had a lot of, um, you did some deal evaluations and we answered a ton of questions. So just go to JoeMcCall.com/apply even if you don't want to work with us. Uh, watch those case study videos and those interviews that we did with other students that are doing deals. It's just crazy. It's awesome. It's really good stuff. All right.

Joe: This is from Don. If we're using this one service that we recommend for scraping Zillow and Craigslist and they, so they've been importing the leads into Podio. Can these leads be to put it into REI Simple instead? The answer's yes. What success are we having sending the first SMS text message to a person from the list that they have scraped?

Joe: There's a lot of different marketing that you should do. One of the things that we set up our clients with is the skip tracing and marketing. So, like cold calling, I mean, so we'll skip trace, we'll pull the list, find the best zip codes, we'll find the best sellers in that zip code. We'll pull this, we'll skip trace them, we'll get a VA to make the cold calls. Put any leads into REI Simple. Um, we've got like 45-50 VA's that are doing cold calling for us right now. Um, so you don't have to worry about finding them. We'll give them to you. And they're good. They're excellent. Fantastic VA's. Um, so there's also marketing that we do and one of them is we go out and we scrape Craigslist and Zillow. We get phone numbers and we, you know, about once a week you're going to get anywhere from a couple hundred to a thousand. I'd say on a, if you're doing it consistently every week, you're going to get about 200 to 300 new leads coming in.

Joe: And so, every day you can send out pretty quickly and easily inside of REI Simple, um, 30, 50 text messages a day. And it just takes a few simple clicks and it merges in the fields. And then, uh, you can send them a text like, Hey, I saw your property on Zillow. I'm an investor. Is your price negotiable? Or you can send them a text saying, Hey, I saw your property on Zillow at 123 Main Street. I'm looking for a property that I can maybe lease for a year or two and then buy. Would that work for you? So, you can send out those texts really quickly and it merges them. You can see the responses come in and you can, you know, when you're ready for leads, just send out those texts and you'll start getting busy pretty quick. O average, you know, you send out a hundred texts, you're going to get about 10 sellers, about 10% to 20% on average of sellers, that respond back saying, yeah, I might be interested, maybe tell me more.

Joe: And uh, you know, you can text them back a few more questions or you can just pick up the phone and call them. That's what we recommend. Okay. Um, and so people are asking, or Don's asking, should I just have my VA do it? It's so simple and easy. Like you should just probably do it yourself when you're sitting down and you've got a couple of hours and you can make some phone calls. Just blast out real quick, 50 to 100 texts and within a few minutes you're going to start getting people that you can start calling and talking to. So, you can have a VA do it, but like you're wasting time because they can go out and do it and then it's going to be three, four hours before you see it and then the lead gets cold by. Yeah. My main challenges are setting up the back office to support the sales and marketing effort.

Joe: One of the things you were really strongly recommend as quickly as possible to get your own virtual assistant. You know, should you do your marketing, if you had a budget, 500,000 bucks, should you get a VA or should you do marketing? I'm probably gonna recommend getting a VA. Like you need to get a virtual assistant as soon as possible to help you with admin stuff. There's only three things your VA should be doing. Marketing, making sure your marketing is going out or updating your scorecard. Number two, um, they should be updating your CRM. You need to get away from the computer. Now I'm saying here, send a text, but like you, like when you're talking to a seller and you have notes and stuff like that, send that stuff to your VA, have the VA update the CRM, have the VA send out any offers.

Joe: And then third, have your VA do the follow-ups. So, um, have your VA marketing, update CRM and do your follow-ups. Super important. Um, I'm having some tech issues with REI Simple, but the support is very helpful and we're tackling them one at a time. Good. Um, some of the issues are generate documents, uh, review the docs, previews, etc. But they're working on that when it comes to documents. Um, there are really good tutorial training videos inside of REI Simple and anybody who just sits down and watches that and pauses it and go and does it, watched it, paused it, do it… You're going to do fine with that. Um, and so when doing an email with from attachments, how do I add in other fields such as my name, title, company, etc.? One of the cool things about REI Simple real quick is there's things called templates. So, you can create email templates and document templates. And so you can, if you're sending out an email to realtors for example, and you have a certain language you want to say, you can email an attachment to a realtor and you can choose which email template you want it to be and it brings in all the merge fields.

Joe: So just watch, Don who's asking this question, just watch those videos again on the document templates. Okay. Um, what is the bot you speak of and how do I learn how it works and how to use it? The bot, I'm not sure. There might, there was a month, a couple months ago, I was promoting this thing about, um, called FoxBot. Okay. So, I, you know, the guy's working out some bugs. Let's just say that. I mean, it worked really well. But I sent him too many customers. Maybe he's got them worked out. I don't know. Um, but what it is is, and you can do this yourself, just go join all the local, um, garage sale, buy, sell, trade Facebook groups and you know, once a week post a message in there saying, Hey, I'm looking for some properties to buy that need a lot of fixing up, does anybody have anything? And then, you know, once that thread starts going down, then you can maybe add a comment to bump it back up. Um, cause that gets leads. So, this guy created a bot that does that on a much bigger scale. Okay.

Joe: This is a good question from Rodney. Um, my biggest challenge is making offers on MLS properties without verifiable proof of funds. Gavin, I'm gonna let you answer this cause I'm gonna go get a quick glass of water. Uh, he says here, um, I know that if I invest in certain programs than they include it, the challenge is my funds are too low to invest in those other programs. How can I get past this hurdle? Does that make sense?

Gavin: Yup. All right.

Joe: I'll be right back. I'm going to get some water.

Gavin: Um, so yeah guys, so, uh, with proof of funds, um, it comes up a lot when it's listed or there's a realtor, even if you're off market or you've got something where the realtor's involved, you're normally gonna get the question of proof of funds. Um, there's two things that you can do, three things. You can get something offline. Uh, there's, there's different websites that you can, uh, get proof of funds from, but probably not the best legit way to do it. But people do. And then there is also networking, networking with other buyers to get proof of funds. Depending on what your exit strategy is going to be. Obviously, you're going to be obviously wholesaling it or doing a flip. So, if you're doing it for that, then the people that you're going to borrow the money from will give you the proof of funds.

Gavin: So, any lenders, hard money lenders, private money lenders, um, you can get proof of funds from, or you position it with, um, the realtor in that you will do all proof of funds after you've done your inspection. So that's the other thing sometimes that they will not allow. That depends on how motivated they are, how long the deal's been on. Um, if it's a brand-new deal, they might say no in the preferred funds, but that would be my first thing is position to get, like I said, the inspection done. Yeah, no problem. We'll do the proof of funds. Um, after I've done my inspection, uh, I'm not going to the bank pulling all that for this property until I know, um, that I want to buy it until I've seen it, been in the property. So that would be number one. Number two is network. You can call people, just look up private money, hard money companies, network—Who do you use for your money? Oh, I use J B Smith. Call him. Hey, uh, looking for a flip. Ah, I'm potentially gonna use you guys. Is there any proof of funds that you can give me so I can start bidding on properties? Uh, yeah, no problem. Very, very easy. It's a big stumbling block that absolutely means nothing. It is so easy. If you network to get proof of funds, um, it really, really is. It's one of the easiest things to overcome.

Joe: So what I've done before when I was getting started is I found a good buyer, you know, a guy who was wanting to buy properties and I said, hey, listen, I'm going to be making some offers if they ask for proof of funds, can you give me a bank statement or something? The guys like, yeah, no problem. I said, just blank out your name if you want or blank out your address or account number if you want. And so, this guy, once a month, he would give me a new bank statement which showed a couple of hundred thousand dollars in it. And it was really, I think it was actually a line of credit and it was a letter from his banker and that can be fine as well. Yeah.

Joe: So, it's not a big deal. Um, and sometimes if the realtor is saying that, they're starting to sniff that you're a newbie and beginner investors. So, you need to present yourself a little more professionally maybe. Cause if you're a series buyer and the realtors can sense that, they're not gonna ask for a proof of funds. But, um, yeah, that's a, it's a good question. Don't let that stumble you up though. Um, that's, that's not a good excuse to make offers. All right.

Joe: This was from Peter. He says, I was thinking about approaching realtors and our property managers, seeing if they had any potential tenants for any properties that I have in the pipeline. I was thinking of charging a $200 application fee, which the realtor can receive minus any background check fees. That's a large… If you're charging… If you want to charge a $200 application fee, that's pretty high for a tenant. But you know, I normally charge like 25 bucks. The company I use out of Illinois, I've used this lady for years, over 10 years. She's phenomenal. She does this anywhere in the country and she charges 50 bucks, but she does a very thorough background check. And I usually pay for half of that.

Joe: So, I guess the question is they're wanting to know, should I build my database of potential tenants and tenant buyers? Should I partner with realtors and property management companies? I wouldn't worry about that. Like if you've got a good property that's priced right and you're advertising it the right way, if you don't find a good tenant buyer in three to four weeks, then something's wrong. You know, what does that mean? That means like signs, the sign in the yard, bandit signs in the neighborhood on the weekends, getting it on Facebook marketplace for rents, getting it on craigslist for sale by owner and ferment and trying to get it on Zillow if you can, if you're doing those things and if it's priced right, like if the market rents are $1500, you should be advertising it for $1400 and I promise you, you're going to get flooded with calls, probably too many.

Joe: And if you're doing those marketing things and uh, like I've got students putting on their signs because they're priced so good, they're putting on their signs: rent to own, 3% moves you in. I mean they're telling the sellers, the buyers upfront, they want 3%, 3% moves you in and they're getting flooded with calls. Um, so I think that answers your question. Peter.

Joe: I'm brand new, this is from Moses. I'm brand new, so I can't really pinpoint any challenges other than that. There is a lot to learn. I do have one request though. This question has to do with PropStream. Seems to be great. Full of great data for possible leads. I'm not blessed with a great deal of creativity though. And I'd be grateful if you could go over ways in which it can be used for leads. Um, PropStream charges about 30 cents for skip tracing.

Joe: Yeah, so that's not, excuse me, that's not the cheapest. If you want to do like one off skip tracing, I actually recommend a service called PeopleLooker.com, PeopleLooker.com. Um, I don't have any affiliate relationship with them, but if you're looking for book skip tracing, we use Need2Skip or Batch Skip Tracing. And our clients get a significant discount on that too. But, um, you know, 30 cents actually aren’t that bad for skip tracing. Really. Um, so he's asking, I want to use PropStream for list of leads in my county, Miami Dade, Florida, and I have them provide the skip tracing service. Okay.

Joe: So, the question is, should I use the ringless voicemail? Ringless voicemail… I actually don't recommend ringless voicemail anymore. I have friends that are still using it. My good friend Sean Terry still uses it and promotes it. Um, it just makes me nervous. So, and maybe I'm a little more cautious and probably I should be when it comes to things like that, I just know several people that have been sued from ringless voicemails and it seems like everybody's doing it so it's not working as well as it used to. And I may be completely wrong. Um, so, you know, maybe you should talk to somebody who's actually using it more than I am. Do you want to add anything to that, Gavin?

Gavin: Oh, gee. Yeah. Um, I mean we've done it. Um, we've done some of it for Alabama. Um, but it, but it also, we look at the law to see where they're at. At what stage. I would absolutely not do it in Florida. That's probably the worst state. So, you need to look and do due diligence and just be, be aware that you're, you are at risk by doing it. Um, and don't be surprised if you are the lucky one. You know, Laura, I would just say it might not be you. Um, well when it is you, it could be $10k, $15k, $20,000 fine that you're going to have to come up with because you've done it. So yeah, that's why we don't teach it because there's better ways that are a lot safer too for everyone across the country. Um, so we're not getting you in trouble either, so, but if you want to do it, it is effective, but make sure you do your due diligence.

Joe: Yeah. So, um, one of the things I'm going to show you guys really quick because the questions were about PropStream. Now I love PropStream. I use it every single day. And um, this is my link PropStreamJoe.com. If you go to PropStreamJoe.com you will have, you get 10,000 downloads a month. Okay? If you use my link though, you're only limited to like 50 to 100 downloads a day. If you use PropStreamJoe.com you get 5,000 downloads a day up to 10,000 on in one month. So, go check out PropStreamJoe.com and I'm gonna show you really quickly how I use it because, um, it's pretty amazing. Oops. So, I'm here in, I just went to Miami Dade County, Miami, Florida, and in PropStream I can see there's 1200 pre-foreclosures. I don't know how right that is, but there's 35,000 properties with liens. There are 10,700 vacant homes, 800 foreclosures. So, you know, if I just click on this, it's going to show me all of the liens. Let me just pick one zip code here. Some of these liens are commercial properties, but you can get county, city tax liens, abstract judgment, state tax liens, federal tax liens. And stuff like that. If I go out here to some of these suburban areas, maybe let's just see. Um, let's do, give me somebody, give me a zip code in Miami, Florida.

Joe: 33156. I don't know where this is. Oops. 33156. In that one zip code I zoom out. Cades Town, wherever that is. South of Miami. Can you still hear me, Gavin?

Gavin: Yeah. Yeah. You're good.

Joe: Good. My internet is a little slow right now.

Joe: 33156. Let me try this again. Three, three, one, five, six. I think I'm overloading my browser because all these buttons say loading. Yeah. Uh, so something's going on, but you can get from this. Here we go. Let me try this. Now you can get from this in that county or in that zip code right there. If I give it a minute, there's 29,566 properties, and in that zip code, there's 2,500 cash buyers or 617 properties with liens. And there's 470 vacant properties. So, if you're looking at it for a good list to send marketing to, I would go right here to filter. I might say, let's say I'm looking for absentee owners with equity. I might or let's do owner occupants with equity. Rather, I'm going to do owner occupied. I'm going to go, there's two things here. There's high equity and I'm going to do property characteristics.

Joe: I want to make sure they have a single-family home. Click apply. So, there's 3,600 owners with high equity. There's also a list called free and clear. There's, so there are different lists, high equity and free and clear and there's 27 homes, 2,700 homes there that have um, that are free and clear in that area. You could also then go say, all right, well I want to make sure it has at least three bedrooms and ownership info. I want to make sure they've owned it for at least 10 years. Do 10 and how many do we have? So, you can see the list here. Three plus bedrooms, free and clear single family, three or more bedrooms, 10 years or more ownership. There you go. You've got 1200 in that zip code that you could start sending marketing to. Also, in that zip code you've got 617 properties with liens.

Joe: So, this might be a good property list to skip trace, 600 something properties. Will, this also is including free and clears like this property has a $50,000 lien on it, right from, I don’t know, I don't understand that. Some kind of judgment. It's a property. It's a house they have owned. If I go to transaction history, looks like they're last sold in 2016. If I go to mortgage, there's a mortgage on it from 2013. So, mortgage is probably been wiped out when it was sold last. I'm guessing you can get really good comps here by clicking comps. I can sort this by sale price so you can see, you know, when I make my cash off or I look at the lowest sold. So, there's some good comps there and uh, you can get information about the… When it was sold with cash information on the lien.

Joe: So, there's some equity in this deal. You can see who owns it, you can see the address of the home owner. If it's a vacant absentee owner, you get all of the property characteristics for 97 bucks a month to get all this information. I was spending over a thousand bucks a month to get this stuff to poll the lists to. Um, I've a bunch of subscriptions to other services like Real Quest Express and, and um, uh, some of Kent's systems, which are really good, but um, I'm just, I'm saving about 500 to 800 bucks a month from all of the data that I can get here in PropStream. Okay.

Joe: This is for Moses. I had a for sale by owner seller who reduced his property to $360,000 yesterday. And the ARV median value is only $323k. So, the seller is wanting 360k and the property is probably worth 320k.

Joe: My cash offer resulted in $222,000 and the sandwich lease option came to $265,000. He was very rude from the outset, so the initial call did not last, but would love this to have been something should, should this have been something that even worth going after and if so, how would I have handled such a variance between his perspective and my offers? Well, first of all, it's for sale by owner and he's probably asking too much. He's asking $360k, you're saying here the house is worth about $320k, he's not very motivated, right? Maybe he is super motivated. He just bought the house a year ago and he's owes way more than it's worth. I don't know. I doubt it, but he's just probably not motivated yet. And so, if I'm talking to him, if he's opens to a lease option and I'm talking to him and he was way too much, I'd probably say, I don't think this is gonna work for me. Not a big deal. If you just thought about listing it with a realtor, you should probably list it with a realtor and see what he says. Right?

Joe: He may say, no, I don't want to pay the commissions. I don't want to put the money into the property to fix it up or I'll just wait to see if I sell it now. And if I don't, then I'll think about listing it with a realtor. So, he's obviously, on a scale of one to 10, his motivation is like a one. And I might just say, well, you know, would it be alright if I send you an offer? It's probably going to be, you know, I doubt this is gonna work for me, but maybe I can send you something. You can look it over. And if you, you know, circumstances change and you change your mind in a few months and let's talk maybe again, later. And that's how I might leave it, right. Just send the offer and I put it in an email and in the physical mail, what would you add to that Gavin?

Gavin: Yeah, the only thing that I might add. Um, it depends. I think you said that he would was aggressive or had an attitude. So yeah, if he had an attitude I probably wouldn't. Um, but normally, if he was just normal, I would say, oh do you have any supporting comps? What makes you think it's worth $360k?

Joe: How'd you come up with that number?

Gavin: How did you come up with that number? Uh, because and maybe say, oh because it looks like a nice house down the street actually just sold for $218k or whatever. Like, is yours way better, I assume? And then let them see. Oh, there is, why was that? Oh no I just stuck it on because I think that's what it's worth, but some people will do things. I have no idea what they're doing and they'll just list it because they just want $360k for it. They won't think. They're not in real estate. They don't know that it's not going to sell. They're just throwing it open, kind of figure out what's happening. But as Joe said, when they do that, no motivation.

Joe: No. The other thing I like to ask is, you know, I understand you want to sell it and I hope you do, but let me just ask you a question really quick and I'll let you go. What are you going to do if you can't sell it? Are you going to rent it out? Shut up. Listen, listen, listen, listen. So, your just asking questions and you know if they say, yeah, I might rent it out. I don't know that that shows you a little open window of motivation there. But again, remember this, nine out of 10, I'd say 9.5 out of 10 sellers that you talk to are going to show you zero motivation on that first call and you're going to think you laid a goose egg, but I'm telling you, this guy has unrealistic expectations. Give them a year. I'm gonna give them a month, maybe a year to cook. Give them a couple months. Keep on following up. You got to follow up. If he says no, ask them, Well, do you have any other properties? Do you know anybody else? And then follow up again in a month. Send them a text message and email a phone call letter. Um, follow up, follow up of the 58 deals that we did last year, 54 of them came from the follow-up. 54 came from the follow-up. It means only four said yes. We knew from the initial first call that it was a potential deal.

Gavin: I think one of the, one of the big things, just really quick that happens with people that are new in the business, is that you need to be a little ruthless and think about your time, right? You're in the business to make money today, if not today, tomorrow and the next day as fast as you can, right? So, when you've got someone showing you zero motivation, you need to get onto the next call, right? You're in business to make money, not talk so long. That doesn't warrant your time to be having that discussion with, right? Um, that's one thing. And the second thing I want to add is that we're in the business of people, not real estate, not property. We're in the people business. Okay? So, where we, we want to, the reason we market is because we want to talk to as many people as possible that when we market to talk to people, they have properties attached to them. Okay? So, it's the person that's going to allow the motivation for you to get the property. It doesn't matter how good it looks on paper, if it's been set on fire and it looks like it's a great deal and they should sell it to you. If they are not allowing that because there's no motivation, you haven't got a deal. So that's when it's time to get off the phone, make the offer, put him on follow up and get onto your next call.

Joe: Follow up, follow up, follow up. You understand? Unless you hate money, don't do any follow-up. And by the way, let me just say this, Gavin, how he got started, he didn't have any money for marketing. He went to the local REI group and said, hey, I know how to use a phone. I've got one of these things. Right? If any of you've got some old leads, send them to me. I'll make some calls and get it under contract and just pay me a couple thousand bucks or split the deal. Whatever. Three different people gave him leads. And one lady in particular… tell this really quick, Gavin.

Gavin: 60 dead leads. Dead. I had them on the Google spreadsheet and they went out three months ago. Um, dead leads. Do you want to work them? Yeah, sure. I had some notes. I called every single one…

Joe: And this was in Phoenix, one of the most competitive markets in the U.S.

Gavin: Yup. And we did, got two contracts, within about the first 40, I got about 40 out of 60 on the phone. Uh, we locked two deals up. And that was, I kind of got, I mean you create your own luck in this business, but I did get lucky to see the importance of follow-up. Right? Cause I have mentors and people telling me to do it. I don't know if it works. I'm just doing what they say. Right. So, I'm just like, well, follow up if their dead or not. No, there's no such thing as a dead lead unless it's sold yesterday or they're aggressive and want to kill you or something. Otherwise it's never dead. So, I just started to call them and guess what happened? Circumstances. This lady, the first deal, I remember it, it was $80,000 that we offered. She said, no, I'm going to put the money in and we're going to sell it yourself. That's what the note said. And guess what? Three months later she had not moved a thing in that property. So, time, the older the leads, the better they are. If you have a ton of leads in your CRM, I guarantee you will close the deal faster by going through what's in there then the new ones coming in today.

Joe: Exactly right. And sometimes it's good to stop your marketing now and then. I don't mean that. Don't ever, ever, ever stop your marketing, but you know, if you're running low on money, go back to your old leads and just pick up the phone and start calling them. Yep. You've got deals there. You've got deals there.

Joe: All right, so really quick, Mark was asking, have you worked, do you work with expired listings for lease options? And I'm doing this question just so y'all know this is live. Yes, that's a great list to send mail to for expired, but when you send a letter to them, say, hey, we're not looking to list your property, we're looking to buy it. Okay. Um, all right. So, a couple more questions here from the list that was submitted earlier.

Joe: How do you do a deal outside your area? Uh, what I have found to be the best way, Brian, I'd done this multiple time while I was traveling around Europe for three months with my wife and four kids doing deals in three or four different markets in the U.S., I partnered with local wholesalers. Super simple. I found a local wholesaler that was already doing deals that I knew that I trusted. And I said, hey, listen, how about I do the marketing, I'll pay for the marketing. My team and my systems will prescreen the leads. You work the leads; we'll keep everything open book inside of our CRM and we'll split the deal 50/50. Great. We did a bunch of deals that way. Um, we were averaging about 30 grand a month on wholesale fees. My half of the profit when we were traveling around Europe.

Joe: And then we did it for three months traveling around in an RV in the Northwestern corner of the U.S. I had my assistant, my local assistant doing direct mail. I could've gotten a mail house to do it. I had a virtual assistant taking the calls and prescreening the leads as they came in live, put them into, at the time we were using Podio and the local wholesaler would get the lead after it's been prescreened. So, the other question related to this from Brian is, do you use a realtor or another investor? I use both. Right. So, if I'm doing lease options, I'll use a realtor to help me advertise for tenant buyers. Um, but usually I'd use, I partner with other local investors. And even once when I was doing subject tos, I was doing a lot of subject to's in other markets.

Joe: I would go find out who's advertising owner financing in those markets. And I would contact them and say, hey listen, I got a deal. Would you partner with me on this? I already got an under contract. If you can help me find a buyer, we'll just split it 50/50. Yeah.

Joe: How do you ensure that you're not getting left out of the deal? Well, you can't really guarantee that, but I always pick the person first, then pick the market that they're in. So that's the way I did it. Um, I trusted them. And second thing is really important is everything is open book in my CRM. So, I invite that wholesaler into my CRM. The lead comes in, we track it inside of my CRM and I make sure that wholesaler understands that I have to see all the contracts and all the paperwork.

Joe: I have the A to B contracts and the B to C contracts and it all has to be done inside of my CRM. Okay. Um, now I also, this is important… daily communication. You got to be talking to that guy every day. Um, or, and in my case, I had my assistant at the time talking to that wholesaler every day. So, there was always constant communication and we were always talking about the current leads that were in the CRM.

Joe: So, Eric is asking, I live in Texas and uh, I know you said that we can do lease options in Texas. Should we use John's contracts? Yes. Use John's contracts in the simple lease options course. We have a video where we interview John, talks about his contracts. Um, we give you a coupon code to buy his course for half off, which is like $500 bucks. And then after you do a deal, give us a testimonial. We will refund you the $500. So, you can't do sandwich lease options in Texas, but you can do lease option assignments in Texas. John Jackson's a good friend of mine, good guy. Just Google him if you want more information about him.

Joe: I need to be more effective in communicating with real estate agents with expired listings. I don't know why you would be communicating with real estate agents of expired listings. Um, the buyers are turning down for financing and they qualify for a loan. I don't understand the question. Sorry, Edgard but can the system work if I take over the deed to the property subject to existing financing with the intent to do a triple net lease option? Well, when it comes to houses, I don't think you can do triple nets. Um, you know, but just typical standard landlord tenant laws.

Joe: But yeah, you can certainly do subject twos right. I might recommend subject tos if the seller's facing foreclosure and you've got to get the loan back current, you know, I'd probably do a subject to, um, I used to do a bunch of them. I don't like them anymore. I mean I like lease options so much better because they protect the seller better, I think. And also, it allows me, it's easier for me to get out of the deal if I want to. So, I just don't like subject tos. I was tired of answering the questions of like, wait a minute, you want me to sign over my mortgage to you but the, the deed to you, but the mortgage still stays in my name? Um, so anyway there's some, you know, like in some markets I can. In Texas more people do subject tos and lease options.

Joe: So, find, just find out what works for you. You can find lease; you can find attorneys and title companies that will do subject tos. You just got to ask around. This is from Tiffany. How does a real estate agent get paid if you are wholesaling a lease option? Remember the seller pays the realtor commissions, right? So, if I give any money to the seller, it's up to the seller to figure out how much they give to the realtor. Um, but if I'm using a real estate agent to help me find the tenant buyer, I usually pay them half to one month's rent as a commission. But they're representing me. So, I might put an ad in craigslist. Hey, I'm looking for a realtor, I'm an investor. I'm looking for a realtor to help me lease my properties, looking for leasing agent and you work out a commission structure with them. If you're doing a ton of deals, you can get away with paying them 500 bucks for each deal. Right.

Joe: Should I set up a DBA, doing business as, with a separate bank account for this specific DBA or should I just go ahead and set up an entity if I haven't done my first wholesaling deal yet? Okay, so first of all, if you haven't done a deal yet, Tiffany, you don't need to worry about setting up LLCs and DBAs and bank accounts and separate entities and tax structures and all that. That's important. I'm not saying it's not, but like how many sellers have you talked to in the last week? How many offers have you made in the last week? So, you need to be focused on marketing, talking to sellers and making offers. That's it. And follow up. Good.

Joe: Jai, when building a buyers list, should you concentrate on specific zip codes to find buyers, learn those areas and market for properties only in those specific areas or should you cast a wide net for buyers and several different zip codes and try to find whatever they're looking for to purchase?

Joe: Okay, so different answers. If you're doing wholesaling, I like to go into, first of all, let me say this, if I'm wholesaling, I like to go in the surrounding MSAs. Like I tried to avoid the big MSA and go around those. Okay. So, um, I just did a course called Small Town Profits with Larry goings and the testimonials have been really, really good. We're going to be releasing it soon. Um, but like, you know, I saw this from Larry Goins in, he's in Charlotte. Big market, right? Big MSA, tons of competition. Everybody's milling in there. It's like crazy. He just decided to ignore it and he started sending marketing all around to the surrounding counties, does all his deals virtually over the phone. He's crushing it. He's getting two to three times the response rate on his direct mail. Um, and you know, anytime he sees more investors starting to creep into one of his counties, he just leaves and he starts, he goes into the county surrounding that county and he's intentionally going after the small towns.

Joe: I mean, he's going big. He sending about 35,000 postcards every single month and crushing it, doing tons and tons of deals. So, we started teaching this, um, so, you know, he's taken the strategy of I'm going to find the deal first and then the buyers would come and it's been super easy because the buyers are out there. A lot of times it's just, you just put a sign in the yard and you'll get buyers that will buy it, you know, neighbors and stuff like that. So, okay. When it comes to wholesaling, um, there's different things. I don't want to sound like I'm contradicting myself, but you need to find your buyers to see what they want and what they'll pay for it. Right. But at the same time, you need to go find deals and just negotiate the best deals that you can. If your buyers aren't interested, then renegotiate with the seller.

Joe: So, it's important to get buyers, but at the same time you should be marketing for sellers as well. Um, and you, there's easy ways you can go in to see where the buyers are buying homes at. But at the same time, sometimes if you're just focusing on a few zip codes, um, it's really, you might have a hard time finding enough people to send marketing to. So, you don't want to do just spray and pray, but at the same time you don't want to be too narrow focused. Right. So, there's a kind of a good mix in between. Um, okay.

Joe: For cash deals when I'm selling them, what do you ask your buyers for in terms of proof of funds to determine if they are genuine buyers or not? Good question. So, I'll just say this and then Gavin, you can answer it. Um, if I'm selling one of my deals, when I'm talking to the end buyer, I want to make sure they're not a wholesaler and they're not trying to do just daisy chains.

Joe: So, I like to deal directly with their end buyer. Now I may tell this wholesaler who contacts me, I say, listen, I'll cut you in the deal, but I want to, I want to deal directly with your buyer. I don't want to do a bunch of daisy chain, so give me direct contact with your end buyer and you and I will have an agreement on the side and I'll pay you, I'm a man of my word. I'll pay you on the side. But um, yeah, you want to, you don't want to do daisy chains, you want to deal directly with the end buyer. You want to add anything to that, Gavin?

Gavin: Um, you can use like a JV agreement with the wholesaler just on that one property. The profits split 50 50 and then goes to, like Joe said, straight to the buyer. One of the big questions is, is just when you prescreen the buyers, when you talk to them, how many are they buying, how quickly can they buy a, yeah, buy the property and things like that. You will know, oh, we'll buy as many as you've got or our I need 30 days before I can close or I'll close tomorrow if title's clear. So, you will know who, who the players are. And just through real estate, as big as it is, it's quite a niche market. Um, you know, it's very, uh, people know people and, and really quick, you know who the players are and who to stay away from. It's just learning and talking to people by networking. And you can do that even in virtual market. You just pick one of these and start talking.

Joe: Yep, start talking. If you go to JoeMcCall.com/apply you're going to go, um, there's some case study videos here and we talk about how to find these buyers and what we do in this case study video right here. Also, down below this video with Gary, we talk about that. And especially this one, we did this interview with Phil Marsh. Um, super cool guy and how he finds his buyers… Spent a lot of time talking about that cause he's in a small town. Like, how do you find buyers in the small town? Well, if you got a good deal, they start begging you for deals even in small towns, even in small towns. So, I really want to encourage you guys to watch this interview. Just go to JoeMcCall.com/apply and get that. And then we also do you know we have another video here and do some case studies.

Joe: We actually looked at some deals and we answer a bunch of questions. Here's a lot of good stuff and of course if you want to get some help, you want to apply to work with us as a private client. Click this button here, takes you to a Podio web form and just tell us a little bit about you and we'll get on the phone and talk. Okay. Get on the phone and talk. Okay.

Joe: This is a good question from Brad specifically for lease options. One of the challenges I've been having is finding people or having sellers want a 10% down payment in order to do a lease option. How do you talk them out of that or do you give it to them and then try to find a buyer to pay for it? I have a $400,000 house and the seller wants $40,000 option deposit, $2,000 in rent. How do you deal with this? I just make the offer and move on. So, like when I'm making an offer on a sandwich lease option, I maybe put a thousand bucks down and that's it. Um, maybe one month's rent, but that's two grand on this deal. Like, is that gonna work? I don’t know. Um, but if they want 10% down, they have zero motivation. So, you should tell him, I don't think it's going to work for me. Go ahead, Gavin.

Gavin: Yeah. Just say, no, no, I'm not doing that. It's not going to work. Sounds like this isn't gonna work for you. And then be silent. Do not speak. It might feel like a minute or just say that. Yeah, I'm not going to be able to do that. That's not going to work. It's probably, it sounds like this is not going to work for us.

Gavin: And then say nothing and then the next move you will see. Well that's what I want. Okay, no problem. Look, sounds like it's not going to work, but I'll make you an offer if you don't mind. Um, you know, you never, you know, if this doesn't move or uh, it seems like a great house… Always compliment things. So yeah, it's just getting them on the side so I'm sure we're not even gonna have another, you know, another discussion because this'll sell. I probably is gonna make you an offer anyways. That all right. 99% will say, yeah, that's fine. Make the offer. When it doesn't sell, here we are and we renegotiate because…

Joe: That's a really good point—compliment their house. This is a really beautiful house. Yeah. You don't want to, you don't want to leave the conversation on a bad note, right. Complement the house. I'm sure you're going to sell it really quickly. That's totally cool. And then move on. Right. Sometimes it's all about positioning too and how you start the call. And so sometimes I like to start the call with, hey, my name is Joe. I'm calling about your house. Um, it looks like a beautiful house. Do you mind if I just ask you a few questions to see if this would be something I'd be interested in? Positioning it. Asking the questions, framing it the right way. A really good book you should read is called Never Split the Difference. Okay, go get that book. Yup. Um, okay. Austin. I'm went through the first half of the absentee owner list and I'm wondering if I should switch over to another type of list for our text campaigns. Um, so when, if you're doing cold texting, I don't recommend text cold texting owner occupant…

Gavin: Austin's um, one of our, um, coaching clients. So, Austin, we can talk about doing Craigslist and Zillow.

Gavin: Yes. So, send us a Voxer. Yeah.

Joe: But again, still, and we've already talked about this with Austin, don't text owner occupant lists, only text absentee owner lists.

Gavin: Yes. Which is what he's doing.

Joe: But if you've only went through the first half, go through the whole thing. But when we're finding what's working best for texting is texting, um, Zillow and craigslist works best for us for lease option deals.

Joe: How current is the info on PropStream? Is this replacing ListSource? I still use ListSource and I use PropStream to be honest. Uh, we get a significant savings with ListSource. Um, but PropStream, I use it every day to like evaluate deals to get property details on a property and uh, to get comps on a property and to pull lists. Like you can't get lists from ListSource of vacant houses or liens. Okay. Um, so that's one big, big reason why I like PropStream. And then also, um, PropStream is good for getting property history, on a particular property comp and when it was last sold, the mortgage and the liens, the property information about the property. They get that from county records and stuff like that. All right, good.

Joe: This is from William. Can we market for buyers for wholesale leases and sandwiches options? Yes, but I don't recommend marketing for buyers until you have a property under contract.

Joe: Is it better to go for rural areas instead of urban areas for lease options to find motivated sellers quickly? Yeah, so like it depends on the city that you're in, right? If you're in New York City, I'd recommend, don't do try to do anything in New York City. You're in LA, you know, I like… It depends. See, here's the cool thing about lease options. You have the entire United States in your backyard. So, like what I would do is I'd pick three or four big cities and just like one week go after this city. The next week go after that city. Then that one, that one, then circle around back and just cycle through those three or four cities. You will find more leads than you can handle, I promise you that. Yeah. Okay.

Joe: This is Jeremy: I've marketed to an expired list. Someone reached out but has recently reenlisted their home with a realtor. How can you best discuss moving forward with the seller without stepping on the realtor's toes? Well, Jeremy, if you're licensed, there's not much you can do. But I would just send the seller an offer anyway and tell him, listen, um, this is an offer. If you want to work with your, do it through realtor, fine. Go ahead and just give this to your agent and have your agent call.

Joe: Thomas, is there a tutorial in REI Simple to show how to email directly to your campaign using unique address? Yes, it's super simple. Okay. This is REI Simple and uh, everything is kind of starts and ends in campaigns. So, when you're in a campaign, like I created a campaign called um, Reilly North Carolina and uh, so all of… There's an associated, you can have an associated phone number with that campaign. So, anybody who calls that campaign, that phone number gets elite added into there. But right here you have this email to campaign. And so, if you send an email to this email address, it will create a new lead inside that campaign. If you are familiar with Podio, this is similar to the email to app functionality that Podio had, right? So, if you emailed that, anything to that email address will get added in as a new lead in this campaign.

Joe: Maybe one of these future coaching calls I will do like a demonstration of REI Simple and show you how we do all of our marketing in here. Somebody was asking about when you're sending the SMS broadcasts, how do you do that? You have to click… Like if I want to send 50 texts, I'll just get the list, categorize them, group them, and then create a text with merge fields in it. And just go click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click up to 50 and then they're sent. Yeah, pretty simple. All right. Um, I'm having trouble finding and training good virtual assistants, is there training videos for VAs. Yes. In all of my courses I usually include a bonus called, uh, Easy Outsourcing 101. And on there we train you how to find, hire, train your VAs. And in there we also have videos that you can give to your VA's. But like if you have my simple lease options course, just give them access to it. Um, and let them watch. The first thing you do is you show them how to get to the training videos and REI Simple. Let them get familiar with REI Simple.

Joe: Gavin, Russell's asking, what did you end up paying for helping with the dead leads? What did, what did you pay that investor for those leads?

Gavin: Nothing. We split deals, nothing. Just building rapport. Um, again, positioning, right? That's why they wanted to give me dead ones because they want to see what you're going gonna do. Right? And then when you just go in there and then 50% of the deal, then they paid for marketing. And we did the same again. So, I had an investor, uh, two of them, I was working with three of them, but two of them we're actively paying them for marketing, for new leads. Still doing the same thing. Splitting deals.

Joe: That's a great question here from um, Mr Mrs. Carter. I'm sorry. Question. Um, I see you mentioned your course a lot. I've been watching you for about three weeks to a month. I bought your Z Code course about a week and a half ago. Is that the course you're talking about or is it the course you talked a lot about in Simple Lease Options course. Z Code is just a course on how to get leads from Zillow. I have a course called Simple Lease Options and if you want to get the Webinar on that, just go to SLOclass.com, sloclass.com. If you're interested in Z code, go to zcodejoe.com and if you want my book, go to Wlobook.com. I hate giving out so many links so I'm sorry. Um, I won't do that anymore.

Joe: Um, yes, a demo of REI Simple marketing would be awesome. I'm still being challenged getting through the workflow automation. So, I do have, if you have my simple lease options course, there is a demo in there on how to do a REI Simple and in the… make sure you watch the training tutorial videos cause they're all in there. If you go to JoeMcCall.com/apply, one more URL and this is the main one we want to tell you guys about, you get all of my courses for free, all of them. And I have at least over $10,000 worth of courses that I've sold before that would have cost you $10,000 to get… You get all of them for free. If you go to JoeMcCall.com/apply. Okay, so go there right now.

Joe: This is a long question here from Patrick. Please help me out: what do I do… What do I do if you set up a sandwich lease option, you get the buyer within a 12-month option? And then when the buyer exercises his option, the original seller does not want to sell the house to me. It's a good question, but be careful with the what if questions, right? Um, because you can get really, really lost in a vicious downward spiral circle when you, when you worry about what if questions. So, what I would say is this, um, the couple things, when you first do the sandwich lease option with the seller, you're going to file a memorandum of option in the county court records for that house. You're going to cloud the title with a memorandum of option. Second thing is, I like to sign a purchase and sale agreement with the seller. You don't have to… Just extra safety. Sign a purchase and sale agreement with the seller. Third thing is, I do a limited power of attorney. You got to get an attorney to help you with this, but you can have the seller sign a limited power of attorney that kind of almost forces them to sell it, um, in a couple of years because you could say, listen, what if you know, you die or something happens or whatever. So there, that's kind of what you do. It's a contract. They have to sign it, they have to sell it, and if they don't, you can sue them and you're going to win.

Joe: Barbara, nobody starting out has five grand to market. Isn't that one of your questions to working? It is one of the questions on our application is, do you have at least five grand over the next three months to invest in your business? And we're talking about marketing there. Um, so it's not true that nobody does, but if that's too much for you, that's fine. It's, this is probably not going to be a good fit. Um, so that is one of our prescreening questions. We've got a few more questions here and then we're gonna end it. What was the info about having a DBA? What are credentials you must have? The DBA, understand, is a doing business as… It's like you just, it's an LLC. So, if you want to create an LLC, I recommend just going to like some of those websites that do it for you. Legalzoom.com I think is one of them.

Joe: What is the PropStream advantage over REI Pro? We get a lot of this too, like, um, and another one here is, uh, how do you populate PropStream to Rei Simple? So PropStream, let me be very clear. This is not a CRM, right? PropStream is a way you can get lists and you can do property research on a property. Okay. You still need a CRM to manage your leads. There are some CRMs that do that give you lists. And so that's great if you want to use them. Um, yeah, so you may have a CRM that does that, like REI Simple will give you owner's information on properties and then you can also buy lists from REI Simple. But, um, I just like PropStream, it gives me better comps. It's just more, it's better than any other CRM data that I've seen.

Joe: Does the VA perform any task where they know how much money I'm making? Yeah. So, don't worry about VA's worrying, knowing, learning your business or learning how much you're making. Don't worry about that. Oh, that's a good question. This is our last one.

Joe: I'm losing great deals when sellers like my terms but need a second opinion from brokers or attorneys and they advise against working with me. This is a good question. Common question, Max. I'll just say this and then Gavin, you can say something and then we'll wrap it up. Um, if a seller says to me, hey, listen, can I have my, I want my seller, my attorney to review this? I say, great, not a problem. Let me just ask you something. If your attorneys are fine with these contracts, would you be ready to sign a deal today? And I listen and then I want to ask him more again.

Joe: Well what are some of the questions that you aren't feeling comfortable with yet? Like what are some things you don't feel comfortable with yet? A lot of times sellers will say that just to get you off the phone and it's a polite way to say no and that's not a, but you don't want to say no, you can't have my, your attorney review my contracts. You can't say that. Right. But I would say things like, not a problem at all. I have no problem with sending my stuff to your attorney. Um, let me just ask you a question first. If they say, yeah, this is good, will you sign an agreement today? And with that kind of a question, you really get to the heart of the matter of what their main objection is. It's usually not, that's not their real concern. It's something else. They're concerned about something else. And you want to find out, dig deep into what that is. You want to add to that, Gavin?

Gavin: No, you're exactly right. What you just said. Um, there's normally just a, there's a boundary, um, of something else and it's the easy get out to push you onto that. Um, so you have to find out what the core problem is. Maybe they don't want to do it, they're not comfortable, whatever. There's definitely something, it's not normally that. And if they do go to that and come back, I normally use things like, well, I'm sure you know your attorney's gonna pay your mortgage next month. Does he, is he concerned about that? Is he going to pay it and then see. Well, he's not gonna pay it. Well, yes. Maybe you should listen to him then. That one, that one line that he wants to change that I'm not changing, but see if, why don't you call him back and see if he is going to pay the mortgage next month when you're still with a property. You just have to use things like that sometimes, but again…

Joe: Like if they say my realtor said I shouldn't do this or whatever, I'd say listen. That's cool. I understand that. I don't want you to tell you to do something your realtor is saying not to do, but is your realtor going to make your mortgage payment next month if this house doesn't sell, is your property manager going to make the repairs themselves and cover the repairs themselves? If he doesn't, if there's repairs in the future with my lease option, I don't know if this is going to work for me, it’s probably not going to work for you and that's totally fine. But I like the way I structure my deals; I take care of all the maintenance and repairs in the vacancies. Does your mortgage broker or does your realtor property manager do that? Does your attorney do that? So anyway, just pull away, pull away.

Joe: I want to just tell you guys again one more time. If you're interested in working with me and Gavin getting this kind of help and advice on a daily basis where you can send us a Voxer and we can answer, well, isn't that interesting? Look at those good-looking guys, uh, where you can, uh, we can actually answer your questions on Voxer. You come out and hang with us for a couple of days in St Louis. We'll set up your business, set up your systems, do your marketing for you, set it up with you, partner with you on deals if you want, get somebody to hold your hand so you can avoid making big costly mistakes. It's just really the fastest and easiest way to do deals is to partner with somebody who's been there done that, right? And we work with clients all over the countries. We've done deals all over the country.

Joe: We're doing deals in multiple states right now. Um, I've done deals and probably total of, if you were to count them all up, eight to 10 different states myself. So, we've a lot of experience doing deals and we also know a lot of people that are doing deals. And this may be a good fit for you, maybe not, but, um, we'd love to chat with you guys. Um, can you just run the one with the tenant? So, like the big things like that you could get a home warranty, get an extended home warranty, but the seller is going to be responsible for the big things. You're just responsible for the things under 500 bucks, which then you're passing on to the tenant buyers. So, the tenant buyer responsible for. Moises, great stuff. Thank you.

Gavin: One thing as well. Just want to add guys, especially when we do a session like this, we have a lot of questions. So, we cover a lot. Um, super easy to go shiny object mode. Uh, we don't help the process of that because we're talking about multiple systems. We're talking about strategies, talking to sellers. Positioning is a lot of information, subject to lease options, all of it. Cash. Just stay focused and don't keep hopping for the new thing. Um, stay at it, they all work. Right? So, find your lane, dedicate to that time, uh, to that strategy. And then work the other ones in, right as you learn and grow. Um, you never want to stop one that works to implement another, you have to do it as an addition. So, any wholesalers that are with us that you're doing four or five deals, don't stop wholesaling.

Gavin: Start doing lease options with it. Okay. To get more deals done. Um, so yeah, just watch the shiny objects, uh, stay super focused. All right. Um, and like Joe said, come and join us. Um, we do not, there's no push sale with us… we find out what's going on in your business. What are you doing now? Can we help you? Do you actually need the help? Some people, we just say, you don't need, you don't need our out. You're already doing it. Just do this, this, this, go and do it. So, um, yeah, we want to, we just want to work with the right people. Um, so there's no push sale. So, if you're interested, let's get on the phone. And if not, hopefully you've enjoyed the session.

Joe: Yeah, this is good. I appreciate you all very much. Those of you listening on the podcast, Real Estate Investing Mastery, thanks for listening. Leave us a review in iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, wherever you listen to us. Leave us a review. Let us know that you like the show. We'd really, really appreciate it. And um, thanks all for the kind words. Again, go to JoeMcCall.com/apply JoeMcCall.com/apply. We have a place where you can apply to work with us as a private client, but there's also a lot more on that page. You can watch the case study videos and how we do deals. We interview students that are doing deals and you see a lot of these really amazing gold nuggets. We evaluate, we look at about three or four deals. We evaluate the deals and um, we, we show you what we would offer and what we wouldn't offer.

Joe: And then we also answer a ton of questions, about 60 something questions, on that page as well. There's a bunch of really good content videos on it. I'm just going to JoeMcCall.com/apply. Scroll down on that page and you'll see all those case study videos in there. You're going to get a lot of valuable information in there. Okay? If you want to watch the replay of this, you can watch it on my YouTube channel or on my Facebook page. Go check that out. Or this will also be soon a podcast at Real Estate Investing Mastery. Hey, thanks again, Gavin. Thanks everybody for being on the show. It's good fun. Um, yeah, appreciate you guys. We'll see ya.

Gavin: Alright, thanks. Bye. Bye.

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