Welcome! This is the first time we’ve filmed a coaching call with a student and Jim Kirshbaum is our guinea pig/student.
We figure that helping Jim will also help you since most people run into the same challenges in real estate investing. Jim’s in the Minneapolis/St. Paul market and he wants the call to focus on marketing and automation.
Jim admits he’s a procrastinator, but so am I. He’s made numerous offers and has already learned that he doesn’t have to go too deep with a seller before making an offer. I’ve found the same to be true.
You need to present yourself as a reluctant buyer. Ask a lot of questions and the seller’s answers put him in the hard seller position. At that point, make an offer and you’ve solved the seller’s problem.
Jim is talking to 2 to 3 sellers a day and his goal is to do at least 4 deals a month. To accomplish that, I estimate he needs 180 leads a month.
Another student, Dustin, lives in San Diego and is making about 5 deals a month in Oklahoma. He credits his success to following up. One took 20 touches, but he says the average is about 7 touches.
Jim is considering partnering with another investor in his market. That may be the best way to get started. Then, once the ball gets rolling, the momentum continues.
Joe: Welcome. This is The Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast.
Joe: Welcome everybody. This is The Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast and this is a first for us. This is the first time we're recording a podcast live with a student. And this is a little different format. So Jim, you're our first guinea pig. How does that feel?
Jim: I love being a guinea pig.
Joe: Okay, so what we're doing here, I'm Joe McCall. This is Gavin Timms. How are you doing Gavin?
Gavin: Good, Joe, how are you Jim?
Joe: Guys. This is The Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast. Gavin is my coaching business partner and he's also my partner that we do our deals together with, and we do deals with one of our other coaching clients, Melissa, down in Alabama. We're averaging about five to 10 deals a month. And we decided let's do something cool. Gavin and I decided, let's take some students, they might be students who are bought a course or in our coaching program and let's do a free coaching call where we kind of dive into one or two challenges that people are having help them a little bit.
Joe: And we think that by doing that it's going to help some of you out there because Jim is not alone in the challenges that he has, right. A lot of people that are just getting started have the same kinds of questions and so we want to help him and at the same time, hopefully we're helping you with maybe some challenges that you're having as well. So cool. All Right Jim, how are you?
Jim: I'm doing great.
Joe: Nice. Jim, we sent out an invitation recently to all of our students and said, hey, who would like to be on a podcast? You responded and if you don't mind, I'm going to kind of read some of the things that you said here on our questionnaire. Is that all right?
Jim: Sure. Go ahead.
Joe: What are one or two things you would specifically like to accomplish on this call? You said marketing for sellers and automation. What kind of investing do you focused on? You said lease to own lease option flips and sandwich lease options. Do you currently do real estate full time? He said no, but you hope to soon. What's your target market? You're in the Minneapolis Saint Paul area. Great market. How do you, you're just getting started you've not done any deals yet. Your goal is to do about $20,000 grand a month and what are some of the things that are holding you back? Procrastination and making the best use of your time.
Joe: I can totally relate to that, by the way. Totally more than you think. More than I care to admit. And how much do you currently spend a month on marketing? You spend about $200 a month on marketing. And how many offers do you make a week on average? Again, you're just getting started. You've made about six or seven offers so far. Is that right?
Jim: It's actually now about 15 offers.
Joe: Oh, good for you.
Jim: I made a number of them the last week or so.
Joe: Nice. I do you, have you found that as you make more offers it gets easier to do?
Jim: I have found that out and I've also found out that I don't need to dive as deeply into what's going on with the seller before making an offer.
Joe: Beautiful. Did you hear that Gavin?
Gavin: That was great. Just say that again.
Jim: I said I don't need the dive as deeply into the information with the seller before making an offer. Before I was waiting until I got to the point where the seller was almost begging me to make an offer and now I found that a phone call or two quick conversation and as soon as they show interest, it doesn't hurt to make the offer.
Joe: Yeah. I think it's important to pull away and Gavin and I talk about this a lot, like when you're talking to sellers don't act so don't become the motivated buyer. You need to be the reluctant buyer. You need to pull away. And when I was first getting started, I was always in this sales presentation mode. I thought like I had to convince them to do a lease option, so I was selling way too hard. I was pushing them and they say, you know, the harder you chase somebody, the faster they'll run. And sometimes it's like, I was getting this all the time. Well this sounds too good to be true. What's the catch? You know, like instead when I flipped it around to being the disinterest buyer or the reluctant buyer, I started getting them to come to me.
Joe: And I would say things like, you know, I don't know if this is going to work for you, that's totally cool, but you know what if I could do this and this and this. So instead of a five minute spiel about all the benefits of lease options, it was just, well, what if I could maybe lease, I could get you that price. Maybe I don't know if it'll work for me or not, but like what if I could get you that price if I leased the property for a couple of years and then buy it, what would you want to do then?
Joe: Or you can say like, if I could do this, if I could take care of the maintenance and repairs, you don't have to worry about the vacancies anymore, what would you want to do then? And that just one simple question. I explained all the benefits of the lease option, right? Super simple. One of the things I'll say to that Gavin and then you can chime in. When it comes to talking to sellers is so, so important. Oh yeah. Ask, ask questions, ask lots of questions. If you've listened to me and Gavin talk to sellers and some of the role plays that we do in the course, you know, and you count the number of questions that we get, it's like at least a minimum of 20 questions every time we talk to a seller.
Joe: Real, not like stupid questions are not like annoying questions, but just tell me about the house. Is it a good area? Is that a good price? Why do you want to sell it looks, why don't you just list it with a realtor? If you're thought about this, I don't know if this would work for you, but so that kind of stuff, when you ask questions, you stay in control. Does that make sense? I'm glad you said that Jim, because a lot of people are struggling with that. Like this is hard. Why is it, but go ahead again.
Gavin: Yeah, I was going to say the easiest way to keep control, to gain control, depending on where you're out with a conversation is ask questions. And there's different frameworks you can use depending on, you know, how confident you are, how new you are to the business. It's real simple when you get on the phone with a seller and you just say, Hey, listen I just want to ask you a few questions about your house.
Gavin: Then literally, if you've got five, six, seven, eight, 10 questions, you can just list each question and get the answers until you feel more comfortable with having a conversation and then add in a question as and when it's needed. And the good thing is, is when you get this and understand it the more it’s a great position to be in. When you can ask a question that you already know the answer to, okay, what they are, they think they're controlling it even though I know.
Gavin: So when I say I'm not sure if this is going to work, you know, I'm really concerned about the location because they care. Location's fantastic. That school district, now they're selling me or do you show it to need any repairs? When you said that it might need this or this, oh no, it's a great house. We did this to it. Again, they're selling me. I already know the answers to what's coming back. Does that make sense? But they're giving me the information rather than me selling on them. So that's a constant thing. Ask great questions that you know the answer coming back. You still ask the question even though you know the answer because them saying it means then making the decision. That makes sense?
Jim: That's been the toughest part for me that I come from a world where I'm the advisor. I'm the one telling people how things work. And so for me to step away from that and not be the one trying to explain the whole program and how it works, all the benefits and everything and ask those questions, that's what I need a lot of work on as far as with the sellers.
Joe: I like that. Jim, I want to ask you something about your marketing plan and one of the things we talked about in the course was creating a marketing plan, did you feel like you understood that we're able to create one?
Jim: I understood that there was able to create somewhat of a marketing plan. I know it's not the most efficient of what I could do. What I did is I did invest in using the scraping solutions and bought a couple of lists. When that came back, I put it in REI Simple and started sending out email and SMS blasts. And that's really what my marketing has been. It's fairly cost efficient. I get a lot of no's, but I've got a few yeses and a few people that have said, yeah, I'd be interested in talking about a lease option.
Jim: In fact, just before we went on this call, I was talking to a realtor that had responded to one of my ads. He had a rent to own or a rental that was listed and got back to me said the seller would definitely be interested in a rental and why don't you send me some information about it. I told him, sure, I'll send you the short form offer, I'll send you the credibility pack and let's talk. And I also asked him, I said, do you have any other houses that might be candidates for this? And he says, yeah, I've got three or four of them. Let's talk about them.
Joe: Oh, look at it. So people are always asking like, should I just stay away from realtors? Should I ignore the ads, the suit with realtors? And I'm like, no, don't for sure not.
Jim: Yeah, I had no idea.
Joe: Yeah. Okay, good. So Jim, do you have a scorecard to do you track your numbers? Like how much marketing you're sending out, how many sellers are talking to every day?
Jim: I do. I've not been real good keeping track of it. Just because it's kind of the time that I get to do this kind of hit and miss and it's almost like I'd rather do the work then track the work. I need to be a little bit better at that. I'm trying to go back with all my numbers later.
Joe: I think eventually you want to get to where you got a VA updating that scorecard for you, right?
Jim: Well, eventually I want to get to the point where I've got a VA that's sending out, getting the lists and sending it out and taking the first responses. That's kind of what I see as being the spot that I need to get to in order to be most efficient.
Joe: Okay. So how many sellers are you talking to on average a day right now?
Jim: A day, I'm probably talking just two or three of them. That's really about all I've got time for. I'm in the middle of a job search. I'm between jobs so I need to find a new job until I can get real estate up and going to the point where it can replace what I was doing and because of that, my time is somewhat limited and will be limited once I find that job and close to finding one.
Speaker 1: Maybe this a bad idea. Maybe you should go to a temp agency. It's got a temp job. You push hard and work hard with this lease option stuff you may be able to. Yeah. Well for me within three months of flipping lease options, I was able to make enough money to replace my current income at my job. And this was 10 years ago, I was making about $75,000, $80,000 grand a year as an engineer. So I don't know what kind of savings you have, but if you can show like a consistent three months of doing deals for me, that was my comfort zone and I could quit my job.
Jim: Right. That's the point that I would have to get past what I was making. I'd have to be doing a number of deal so that the income was fairly high at my last job. And I'm looking for something that's pretty close right now.
Joe: All right, so you know, one of the things that we've talked about in the marketing plan, and I'd encourage you to review that again, is start from your goal, your income goal and work backwards, right. So it may be like if you want to make $20,000 grand a month, that's, let's just say four deals, and let's say that means you've got to get, if you want to get to do four deals, you got to get five properties under contract. Let's say let's be conservative and say you've got to get six properties under contract every month to sell four. Because one or two of them may not sell. Maybe priced too high, just may not be a great house. So if you got to get six contracts a month, and let's say you need 30 leads to do one contract, that's 180 leads a month, right? Which is not impossible, but that's hard for a part time person to do.
Joe: The point I'm making is start from your income and work backwards, okay. How much marketing do I need to do everyday? And you should have one or two. You should have two things on there at least, right? You can't have all your eggs in one basket, but I suggest, or if you're doing just Craigslist and Zillow, then do multiple markets like maybe the entire state of Minneapolis, Minnesota. Instead of just one market. But you don't want to have all your eggs in one basket.
Joe: But the goal is to talk to five sellers a day. The other thing I wanted to add to this is to encourage you with this is a long-term play, right. You're going to find building that momentum is really important and it's hard at the beginning. That's what's frustrating with this business. I wish I could wave a magic wand and have the momentum start immediately, but it just doesn't work that way, right?
Joe: So it's like a train. If you were pulling or pushing the train at first, it's really hard, right? Because it's heavy. But once that momentum gets building and growing, that momentum that starts pulling on a train, you don't need much movement at all to push that train. It starts moving by itself and it becomes harder to stop. Like if you've been doing marketing long enough, if you stopped your marketing, you'd probably still be getting leads and doing deals for another 6 to 12 months. So you got to be patient and be consistent in this business. You got to be consistently doing marketing. Even when you're getting discouraged and you're like, oh man, I've made 15 offers it's not working yet. Because you're going to find on average, your first deal comes after one, two or three months of marketing and making offers because of the follow up, right.
Joe: We talk a lot about this in the course, like you've got to be following up with every seller on average. We were just talking to a coaching student, Dustin. Oh, you weren't on the call. Gavin was in the Dominican Republic and I'm mad at him right now being gone for felt like a month in the Dominican Republican and it was just gorgeous there. But I was doing the last coaching call and Dustin, who was one of our clients in San Diego doing a bunch of deals in Oklahoma right now, and this is really interesting. He said this is the second month in a row. He's done five deals or more in Oklahoma. And people on the call are like, what's he doing? What's he doing? What's he doing? So I brought him on and we talked to him and he said, just following up, like that's it.
Joe: It's nothing sexy or fancy just following up. And on average it's taking four for him, it's taking, what was the number like three to four months of follow up, six to seven touches. And some of the deals that he's done it, he's been following up for six months or more. One of them, I think you said was over 20 follow up touches. So why am I saying that? Because you're just getting started. I would get, I would be excited because you're starting, you've already made 15 offers, which is awesome. Those offers are eventually going to turn into deals. One of them will, right? Keep on sowing those seeds every single day. Talk to sellers, make offers. You're going to find that in one month, two months, three months, the deals that you start doing, the contracts that you start getting in three months are not going to be from the new leads that you're getting now. They're going to be coming from the leads that you've been following up with for the last two or three months. Does that makes sense Jim?
Jim: Yeah, it does make sense.
Joe: Does that give you any kind of encouragement?
Jim: It does.
Jim: But I've also got the advantage being here in Minneapolis that Jesse Mills has become. I started working with Jesse a little bit and bringing some potential investors into his slow flip creation. So if I can get that rolling with Jesse, that gives us a base income that we bet don't have to go back to work. You never know.
Joe: Did you want to add something Gavin?
Gavin: Yeah, I was just going to say as well Jim, I know where talked about the time, you know how precious your time is. As Joe just said, it's an eye opener every time that I travel, I always say that I can do this business from a phone and a laptop. And when I travel, I work less. I still work, but I work way less than I do if I'm at home. But I still get the same amount of work done, right. And why is that? Because it forces me to focus on the high dollar an hour activities.
Gavin: The thing that has to be done, the thing that's going to make the money is what is my go to, right? My first day back today, I can honestly say I've been here and it feels like I've done, like I've still achieve what I was doing last week in an hour and 30 minutes to two hours, and I've been working for eight hours a day to get the same work because I'm trying things and I'm messing around and I'm looking things and I'm not organized first day back, right.
Gavin: So I think for you, you know, we talk about a marketing budget that you've got a small budget. Let me ask you a question. Could you afford on top of whatever you've done, $10 a day right now?
Gavin: Okay. So $10 a day would give you a VA for two hours. A VA sent text messages for two hours a day you would have more than five people a day to talk to. That's already done for you, okay. From the time that you said job or without a job, after looking for a job, whatever, 4:00 til 6:00, 6:00 till 8:00, tonight is your time to make them calls. The VA set you a 6:00 o'clock or 6:30 or 7:00, 7:30 and 8:00 o'clock, whatever it is, just to talk to the sellers. They've been acting as, as either as a partner of yours or they can be acting as you.
Gavin: So you've been texting the cell but you're tied up until 6:00 o'clock how does that work. So when you get on, you actually have the conversation from the VA and then you lead in with that and then you can make the offer, okay. And maybe in them two hours, it could be as soon as you get five leads. I want you then to make offers on yesterday’s deals. And you could run this at a small budget. All the clients that we work with that are doing deals are still working under a $1,000 dollars budget. Even the ones doing multiple deals are still operating under a $1,000 dollars a month, right? For $10 a month.
Gavin: And sometimes for me, you have to put it into perspective. It's a Starbucks. You know, it's a drink at the bar.
Joe: What kind of drinks do you drink at Starbucks?
Gavin: You know, but whatever a couple of drinks. And if you can do that and put it into your business, and I say that, not for you Jim, but everyone listening as well. Because we all know we go to Starbucks. All right, Starbucks and pastry or whatever you call, right. $10 bucks. That's two hours. You don't need a VA for any longer to get five leads a day, I'm telling you. Five leads texts through REI Simple. There'll be ready for you to make them calls.
Jim: And that's actually what I've been focusing on in the last few days as I've been watching the videos that were part of the program, the bonus program about VA's and hiring VA's and trying to figure out how to do this and trying to get something where I can get something going. Because I do know that that's what I need to do is the high value tasks instead of low volumes. I spent too much time in the last couple of weeks learning how to use REI Simple. Setting up a website doing that kind of stuff, getting the basic setup ready to go and not doing enough of the business where it's time to start to generate, and start to move a little more toward doing the business.
Joe: Well, good. You've got that behind you now, right? I totally agree with what Gavin was saying. Like a virtual assistant can just do wonders for your business. You shouldn't be doing the $5 an hour activities. You should be doing the $500 an hour activities if you're sending text messages and prescreening leads that VA can do that, right. My 10 year old daughter could do that. So what you need to do is like as soon as you can get a VA to do that for you. And I talk about those three simple texts messages, your VA, number one, is the house still available? You know, hi, my name is Jim. I like the house at 123 Main Street on Zillow or Craigslist. Is it still available? Number two, you could ask them maybe like are you the owner? If they say yes or no, maybe could have a different response for them.
Joe: But then a third question could be, well, you wouldn't be interested in maybe leasing the house for a year and then selling it, would you? And they can have that conversation. And then as soon as there's any of warm response, the VA can change the status of that or create a task in REI Simple for you to then get notified and can contact that lead. But you can in REI Simple, you can see the thread of that text communication and then get back to that. The good thing about that too is sometimes sellers don't respond right away to a text, so now you've got a VA that manages that for you. Does that make sense?
Joe: One more thing I'll say here. If you've been getting, like you've been talking to two or three sellers a day, take a look at your numbers because if you have to send 20 text messages to talk to one seller and you need to talk to five a day, that's pretty conservative there. But like that means then you need to send 50 text messages a day on average, right. That's the cool thing about REI Simple. It makes it so easy to do that, right?
Jim: Yes it does.
Joe: But cool.
Gavin: I just wanted to say, and that's something the VA you aren't going to figure that out. The VA will send, if it's 20 it maybe 21 days to get five positive responses. It might be 50 the next day and they can do that, control that for you and lead on. You don't have to worry. Soon as they know what they're doing, they will then bring them leads to you to speak to. That's going to be the next thing you know that you need to do. And we've identified if you can do $10 a day, five days a week, that's $200 a month on a VA its' going to be the best $200 you'll spend because the leads are going to bring in for you versus you sending out direct mail for $200. I mean it's going to be crazy the difference.
Jim: Yeah, I agree. That's the next step.
Joe: So Jim, where are you going to go to find a VA?
Jim: There were a number of sources that you put in the course. The Filipino VA is actually Upwork. Upwork is one of the places I've used Upworks already. I use that for working to build the website, I worked with Raesh. He did a great job with that.
Joe: Nice, good, good. And he just posted something. You just posted something in the group about that.
Jim: Yeah. Yesterday I posted that as the website's up and running and put my link there.
Joe: And a Raesh built that for you?
Jim: Yes, he actually, he stole yours, right.
Joe: Okay. Do you mind if I ask how much you charged you for that.
Jim: About $70 bucks.
Joe: Oh, good. Nice.
Jim: Yeah, it wasn't much.
Joe: Yeah that's a steal. Well cool Jim. One thing I'd recommend I mean as soon as you can think about hiring a full time VA. Because a full time VA can not only just send the marketing out for you, but they can also send the offers for you. Eventually they can do the follow up for you, make an update your CRM for you. So all you're doing is talking to sellers and following up with sellers and you can just send a Voxer message to the, you can send a Voxer to the VA for the updates and stuff like that. Cool. I wanted to ask you a couple more things if we just have a few more minutes here. What do you feel like you is your big takeaway from what we've shared with you so far?
Jim: So far on the call or so far in the course?
Joe: On this call here. What's your biggest takeaway? What are you going to do when you well go home or if you're at home?
Jim: Yeah, the biggest takeaway, the biggest takeaway is going to be to find a VA and start getting things so that I'm not doing everything I'm doing things that are more productive.
Joe: Yeah. One of the things that you said here is one of the things you hope to accomplish on this call is automation.
Jim: Yes. That's what I was talking about.
Joe: Yeah, exactly. Because sometimes the best automation you can get is a good virtual assistant. It's all these systems and tools are nice and fancy, but if you find that you're behind the computer all day, you're not making money, right. Get a VA to be behind the computer all day for you. Does that make sense?
Jim: That does make sense.
Joe: Good. One more thing I want to ask you as I'm thinking about this, like have you looked at other markets outside of Minneapolis, Saint Paul in the twin cities?
Jim: I've considered other markets, but I haven't actually started working in the other markets. One market I want to look at, it's just because it's some place eventually I want to live is a south Florida. I have an eye towards moving down there at some point in the future. My wife has an eye towards moving down there some point in the future. But I mean there's a lot of other markets that I could work and actually almost by mistake, when Zillow or when Scraping Solutions sent me my first Zillow scrape, it included a lot of greater Minnesota and the cabin country of Wisconsin, which is kind of, you know, within about 200 miles of here. So there were a number of leads for lake properties and oil properties.
Joe: Don't ignore those. You may think like who would want to live that far out in the country? Don't ignore those. Because those are all…
Jim: I've made three or four offers to those people already and you know, resort areas. And the trick then is going to be out to find a tenant buyer. But I'm sure there are people for those areas.
Joe: Yeah, there is. You know, just don't, you're not committing to make any payments until you find a tenant buyer, right. But every time I've done a property out in the country, I've been shocked at how many people will express interest and apply. Tenant buyers will apply for that house because there's nothing else out there. And when you can offer a creative lease option deal too them, as long as that's a good deal, you'll get interest in that.
Joe: And that's why when I'm also working on those deals that are farther out in the country, I'm a little leery about whether I can find the tenant buyer or not. I make sure my option agreement with the seller is flexible. Like nonexclusive that means they can cancel it if they sell it before I do. I'm not tying it up. I'm not, you know, so they can cancel it if they sell it before I find a tenant buyers. Does that makes sense?
Jim: And that's actually been one of my pitches to the people that had been talking to is to tell them that I'm not taking an exclusive on their house that they can still market it while I'm marketing it, but I'm going to help them try and another avenue to try to sell it for them or to help them sell it.
Joe: Cool. Any questions that you have Jim?
Jim: Don't think so. I mean it's just, I've taken in so much information in the last four or five weeks. I'm on module five right now in the Simple Lease Options, so I haven't done, I'm just still working through it all. I've taken in so much information, I've done lease options before in the past back in about 2008, 2009 and was holding personally in my own name about 13 or 14 properties when the market crashed. So I was doing everything wrong back then. So you're helping me to learn how to do things right and it makes a world of difference. It's just a whole different ballgame.
Joe: That's where I came from. That's where I sowed my roots. Cool. All Right Jim, big takeaways that you're going to take away. Number one, get a VA, okay. Number two, this relates to getting a VA, you need a scorecard. That VA needs to know what they're supposed to do and that scorecard is going to tell them what they're supposed to do. So maybe you have your own scorecard, your VA has their own scorecard or maybe you know, she just updates your scorecard, but you need to track how much marketing is going out, how many leads are coming in, how many sellers you're talking to. So that's three, right?
Joe: Marketing going out, leads coming in, sellers, you're talking to, the offers that you're making and the follow up that you're doing and you start tracking those numbers you'll start creating targets and goals. Because then your target hopefully is like, okay, we're going to talk to 30 sellers a week. We're going to make 20 offers a week and we're going to follow up with every single lead once a month. And you start doing that you start building the momentum, watch out because Jim is going to start doing a lot of deals. Cool.
Jim: Sounds was good I like that.
Gavin: And one thing I'll just say real quick on that, Jim is the follow up is the reason that you making these offers to people that might not be interested now is that's going to help in the follow up. Sure. So when you're actually talking you'll just shadowing is all you're doing. You’re doing point of contact with them to eliminate everyone else in the marketplace, right. Because no one else is following up so they know who Jim is. Because Jim's the only one that's followed up. So when it becomes a deal, who do they want to do business with? They want to do it with Jim because Jim is, we get this all the time and the markets that we work, I want to do business because you're the only one that's followed up. Your the only one that's took your time to ask us how things are going when it was a no, right. So you're not on there long. Follow up can be one minute to two impact heavily on the next time when you actually pick the property up or get the contract.
Joe: Hey one more thing to Jim and when you're sending your offers, how are you sending it to them?
Jim: Email. I have not been doing it by snail mail yet. I'm thinking I need to do that as well.
Joe: Yes, definitely 100% so go look up in my course, I talk about it, but go to click Google, click to mail, email to mail, okay. They have a page a tutorial, it tells you how to do it, but they'll give you a special email address. If you send an email to that email address from a pre-approved email address and in the subject line you put seller's name, colon property address or mailing address, city, state, zip, whatever in the subject line you attach that PDF and you have credits and click to mail. You have to prepay your credits in click to mail. They will print it same day and mail it first class to the seller. And we can do that in REI Simple, but that's real important because those emails are easy to lose. They go into spam. Sometimes they don't see them, they'll see it and they say, oh, I'll look at that later.
Joe: Or they just forget about it and who reads emails anymore anyway, so send it in the mail because now they got something to hold on to. Your competition's not doing this as part of the follow up that you do as well. Send the emails and texts and slide dials and phone calls and all of that. But don't forget to send follow up letters and postcards in the mail as well. That's just as important because then it's like everybody sees their mail, they all read it. Like they might be opening it over the trashcan, right. They’re looking at it, right. So don't forget that. Cool. Awesome. Hey, thanks Jim. Appreciate it.
Jim: Yeah, thank you. Thank you both very much.
Joe: Hey everybody listening to this or watching this right now. If you want to work closely with Gavin and me, we work with a lot of clients one on one. We've got a workshop coming up in Saint Louis in a few weeks. We work hand in hand with our private clients. We set up their systems for them. We do their marketing for them, we coach them through their first two deals. We actually reimburse the coaching fees back to our students when they partner with us on deals. So it's a pretty cool program if you're interested in that. Gavin and I just did a case study where we talked about how we did over $155,000 and wholesaling fees in the last two months in one of our markets with one of our coaching clients and we break through detailed step by step how we did that. If you would like to see that video, it's about 30 45 minutes long.
Joe: It's not a big giant sales pitch. We actually show you how we do it. Go to VirtualCaseStudy.com VirtualCaseStudy.com we're going to show you how we did that and you might have some interest in working with us. There's a button at the bottom of that video and how to apply and we can get on the phone and see if we're a good fit. Cool. Thanks Gavin. Thank you, Jim.
Jim: Thanks guys. Appreciate it.
Gavin: Thank you guys. Bye bye.