I want to show you how you can be a Realtor and make even more money. But you’ve got to do it just right or you can get in trouble with the local real estate commission office. That’s why I teamed up with Alicia Sierra, a real estate investor and local Realtor who’s all over this niche. She’s going to help you find and build better networks so that you can make an additional $3,000-4,000 a month.
When I figured out what the buyers were buying, I tripled my business in just a few months. I literally stopped marketing for seller leads, and just started spreading the word that we were looking for deals. That completely changed everything for us. We stopped wasting our time for tire-kicking sellers that weren’t serious about selling.
Alicia loves working with buyers for investment properties, especially BRRRR buyers and short-term rentals. She’s out there looking for underpriced or overpriced that are poorly marketed. And she’s busting her tail providing value in Facebook groups to connect with buyers who are ready to spend money.
We’re looking for testimonials, so we’re selling our case study at a discount right now. We want your sincere, positive praise, and we want you to get in on the ground floor. If you’re a Realtor who’s looking for a niche, you’re going to love this.
Joe: Hey, what's going on, guys, Joe McCall, Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast, I'm excited about this episode because this is something that I've been working on for a long, long time. And I found somebody to partner with on this that I think is going to be pretty awesome for a lot of you guys. And what we're going to be talking about on this podcast is how to make money as an investor agent, how to make money as a realtor, but not the typical way that you see most realtors making money. Because I'm telling you something, the system is flawed. It's rigged. It's rigged against you. Most realtors out there doing traditional realtor stuff are barely scraping by. I mean, I don't know the numbers. My guest that I'm going to bring on, Alesia, will probably give us better numbers, but it's pretty dismal.
Joe: The average annual income or salary that the realtors make pretty bad and even the the quote unquote, top producing agents that you see on the billboards, they're not making nearly as much as you think they are. And we're going to show you a really awesome way where you can be a realtor, but also be an investor, actually be an investor agent. And we've talked about this for a long, long time, you know, because there's issues with licensing. You can't you're not if you're an investor and you don't have your license; you cannot be in the business of putting a buyer and seller together. That's a brokering, that's brokering. Right. You can't be in the business to go find the buyers first and then go find a deal for them. That's you know, you can if you're using the right contracts. But it's one of those things.
Joe: And we'll talk about this on the podcast. I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself here, but it's one of those things where if you don't do it just right, if you're not using the right paperwork that you're supposed to be using, you can get in trouble with the local real estate commission. So I've been saying it for a long, long time. You should get your license. Doesn't mean you have to do everything as a realtor, but there is a way that you can make a bunch of money, especially right now in this market. If you're smart about it and you go out and get your license first and then the skies open up for you. And it's pretty amazing. It's awesome. I'm excited about this. And I have a guest today, and her name is Alicia Sierra. I'm going to bring her on in a minute. We're going to be talking about this because I'm doing a case study coming up as we're recording this real soon here. And as you're listening to this, it's going to be in a few days and we're going to be talking about how you whether you have your license or not, how you can actually profit by going out and finding the buyers first, finding the ones with the money and then bringing them deals. So I think we should just bring Alicia now. How about that? Alicia, how are you?
Alicia: Hi. Good. How are you doing?
Joe: Awesome. Ladies and gentlemen, Alicia Sierra. She is a rock star in the St. Louis area, but she's been doing deals for a long, long time. And this is something that I've been thinking about for a long time. One of my best students who was my former acquisitions manager does about 90 to 100 deals a month. And I think you might know him as well. But this is exactly what he does. Not a month. Ninety-nine. Ninety to one hundred a year. But this is exactly what he does. And I've talked about this before, guys. I you followed me for any time, I went to Europe and I went in an RV for about three months with my family of six, and this is exactly what we did. We went out and found the buyers and brought them deals. But I've never really taught this before because even though I have my license, I hang my license with Keller Williams. It's a great brokerage. I have never I've never done this as an agent like Alecia and Alecia. Welcome to the podcast again. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Glad you're here. You've been you've been in the business a long time in the St. Louis area. Talk about that. How long have you been doing this stuff?
Alicia: Well, I've been a real estate agent, a salesperson for twelve years. Yeah. And before that, I've been in real estate for more years than I care to disclose. But before that, flipping houses full time and we ran to the crash. OK, so that's between that and having come from flipping houses, that's kind of how this whole thing started.
Joe: So you've been on the realtor side of things and the investor side of things. Right. Which one do you like better? Is that a fair question to ask?
Alicia: Well, do you really have to choose the maybe not, right? I don't think you really necessarily have to choose. I'm probably more Realtor than investor, but I think someone can come at this the other with the flip ratio. Yeah. Approach. So you can be both. I guess that's what we're here to talk about.
Joe: Yes, you can do both and you can do both very, very profitably. Let me just set the stage for this a little bit, because I've worked with a lot of people who were realtors doing the traditional realtor thing, getting chasing the listings. Right. And you would think they were a top producing agent. They were on the billboards. They had the huge teams. Right. But you sit down and look at their numbers, like really dig into their numbers. What is your net, net, net that you're taken away, that you're put into hip pocket national bank after paying all of your staff, all of the marketing, all of the commission splits you have to make with your broker. How much are you really making and how many hours are you working to do?
Alicia: I've been down that road. Yes, it's pretty bad. It's a lot of smoke and mirrors.
Joe: Oh, man. It's especially bad in the Realtor industry.
Alicia: It is. That's a whole another podcast, but the culture does to boil it down. The real estate agent culture is very much a workaholic.
Joe: Yes, they were the ones that are good and they're good.
Alicia: Workaholic and boundaryless culture.
Joe: Oh, my gosh. You don't want to take lessons on boundaries from a Realtor.
Alicia: No, you don't. That's the realtor therapist podcast's we'll have to do that. Maybe you can teach us, but yeah, it definitely is. And there's a lot of expenses that can eat profit up pretty fast if you're not careful.
Joe: Right. All right. So let me also give you a little more info on this, because I was doing a lot of wholesaling, the traditional way, way back in the day. I was talking to one of my coaches and mentors at the time, and I wanted to because I saw a lot of money coming into the market and there's still a lot of money coming in the market. You know what else, guys? There's a lot of money sitting on the side right now waiting for the market to cool down, waiting to come and buy some deals. So don't think like, oh, man, the market's going to change soon. I don't want to get into the market yet. No, there's a lot of opportunity coming still. All right. So anyway, I my coach and mentor at the time said, Joe, you need to go find the buyers first. I think I had my license at this time. I'm not sure. And it's called reverse wholesaling. If you're doing it the investor way where you go instead of going out. And it's so much easier to make money in this business. Guys, when you sell people what you have, what they want instead of what you have, right. You go out and you try to find stuff you can still do. This is still works.
Joe: And then you sell people what you have. It's you can do it, but it's more challenging. What Alicia has done is figured out, OK, where are the buyers? Because they're the real customers. Right. And they're the ones with the money. And then you go find out what they want and then you go bring it to them. Right. Well, what Alicia has done here, which is so awesome and exciting, is she's doing this as a realtor and making very good money doing this without working that hard. I mean, she's a hard worker. She's working really. I mean, she works hard. I don't know how many hours a day or week you work, but compared to the traditional realtor route listings and stuff like that, it's a lot less.
Alicia: Yeah, it is. So I'm not really working on Sunday, so we'll start there. So that's a good start. But no, it's true. I mean, it's you said the market. There's a lot of opportunity coming to market. There's always opportunity. It's just always changing. It's just a seller's market, a buyer's market, a little bit of both what have you. Like I said, I started at the beginning with the crash. At that time, a lot of realtors were leaving. It was gutted. I mean, like you I'm sure you remember a lot of realtors just left because everything crashed, but that was an opportunity for the buyers. And so that's how the whole thing started. Nobody wanted to sell those cheap, cheap houses. I mean, yeah, I sold the cheapest house I've ever sold was five hundred dollars and I made twenty-five hundred. And so, yeah, people didn't really see the catch, you know, they didn't see the value in it. But it's a lot quicker. It's a lot faster. Now we have a market where there aren't a lot of super cheap deals like that. There's different opportunities. And what the buyers do for you now is tell you what inventory you should be focused on finding. So it doesn't mean as a realtor, you don't want to find the inventory, you don't want to find the listings, but you can focus on finding the ones that you know are in the highest, highest demand.
Joe: Well, and that's exactly what we did. So when my coach was telling me about this, I said, oh, that makes a lot of sense, right? Go find the buyers that are already buying, find out what they want and go give it to them. And our business literally tripled in a few months. Once we finally figured that out and we stopped marketing, we stopped doing any marketing for cellar leads and we just started spreading the word out. And Lisa's so good at this. We're going to talk about it here in a minute. We started spreading the word out. Hey, I'm looking for deals. Send me your deals. Send me what you've got. And we started getting people, bringing us deals, other wholesalers, other investors, even realtors started bringing us deals. And so that changed everything for us. I mean, we stopped spending so much money on marketing for leads. We stop wasting a bunch of time with tire kicking sellers and just started focusing on what our buyers wanted. And it worked really, really well. So over the years, I've been wanting to create a course and I've been wanting to teach people how to do this, but it's just been kind of put on the back burner and I just haven't had the time to do it. Now, a few months ago, Alicia, you reached out to me and we started talk and I thought, oh, man, this is fascinating. Tell me again about what you do. And I got really, really interested again in this because Alicia is actually doing it and doing it in a big way. So, Alicia, what is your business look like today? What are you doing today?
Alicia: About 90 percent of my business is out-of-state investor buyers. OK, it's not that I don't do any retail business, but. I've been doing this so long that the opportunities kind of come to me, I don't have any paid leads. All of my business is organic for the Internet or social media or repeat business. I post eighty-five transactions last year. OK, that was a slow year in that I did take some time off. It worked for half of the year. I worked about half of the time. But the reason I mention that is you can sustain your business when you when you focus in this kind of niche because there is so much repeat business. The vast majority of my close deals were repeat clients last year.
Joe: So as opposed to from out of state. Yeah. Looking for deals in St. Louis. Yes, mainly St. Louis. You're doing this in other states or cities?
Alicia: I'm not. I'm actually just starting to collaborate with agents like me in other markets, other opportunities, because most of my buyers are open. In fact, a lot of times the reason they picked St. Louis was because they found me and this was just one of several options.
Joe: Nice. All right. And so are you. These buyers are out of state buyers, so you're not driving them around looking at 20 different houses, right? Not at all. No. You can do this. Could you do this virtually from Barbados in the Caribbean?
Alicia: We could do it virtually from Barbados with the right ground game.
Joe: The reason I brought Barbados up is.
Alicia: Why am I even here talking to you?
Joe: Why are you know, it's 15 degrees right now. Why aren't you in the Bahamas now?
Alicia: Yeah, well, talk to me in a couple of years when my kids are out, we're just glutton for punishment or punishment. Yeah, you could with a little bit of ground game, just like you teach on the virtual wholesaling side. You could do this from anywhere. One of the beauties of it is when I profile a package or profile property, I have more than one potential buyer for that for that property. So besides all the same things that your wholesalers are doing, besides texting it to list or emailing it to a list, I'll have two or three clients that I have good ongoing buyer relationship with that. I'll call personally with that deal. So when I profile a property, unlike with a retail buyer for the realtors out there listening, I have several potential buyers property. So chances are that I'll sell that property as opposed to the buyers, especially these days that are looking at twenty five houses, offering on several and then losing out on bidding wars.
Joe: Yeah, so we're talking about investor buyers, not retail buyers. About how many deals would you do on average, would you say a month?
Alicia: Anywhere from five to ten a month.
Joe: Five to ten a month. And so you basically just bottom line, how this works is you get the buyers who are looking for investment properties and they're looking for cash flow. They're looking for cash on cash return ROIC, long term passive income, the strategy of buy rehab, rent, rent and refinance and repeat. That's a big thing right now. And it's popular. Everybody's talking about it on bigger pockets and it's a great strategy. Yeah, but they're looking for they're looking for inventory right now.
Alicia: They're looking for inventory. They're looking for deals. Another area I've gotten into in the last few years, the short-term rentals. OK, so which is nice. It's an opportunity to sell more a class properties. So a bigger, bigger price points, which is nice.
Joe: What I love about this, though, is that you're not out there sending a bunch of direct mail, doing a bunch of cold calls, sending a bunch of texts and talking to sellers and making offers and then following up with sellers. I mean, there's a place for that. Again, I'm not saying that's bad. We're doing a lot of deals like that. But Alicia you have you get these buyers and a lot of times they're coming to using. All right. I'm looking for deals. Do you have anything? And you're not chasing the buyers and you're not chasing deals. Right. You're not making one hundred offers for every one seller that accepts, right?
Alicia: No, I'm not. Although, I mean, right now, at this moment, it's a seller's market. So there is a little bit of a need for speed. But I just have to prepare my buyers for the fact that they're going to have to make quick decisions right now. And I collaborate with wholesalers. So it's not that I can't do campaigns for property, but the difference is if you are a wholesaler with a license, you can approach that campaign as an agent, which is the whole another thing. And really you're going to stand out against wholesalers and appeal maybe in a different way if they're getting paid for it right now by a lot of different wholesalers, you're going to have something different to say.
Joe: And you're going to stand out and look and be in a much better light doing it this way than you are if you're doing it as a wholesaler and you're standing for the Real Estate Commission, right? Yeah. Our friends at the Real Estate Commission, I mean, nothing wrong with that.
Alicia: I collaborate. I love wholesalers. Well, I love wholesalers that know what they're doing. Well educated wholesaler's, like the ones who've been through your program because they understand real values properties. They understand what the ARV is. And if you can find a couple to work with, it's great, especially in a market like Missouri, not every state's like this, in Missouri, we can actually list properties owner by contract. So any state that allows that, it's a really great state to be an investor agent.
Joe: Yeah, OK, so you find the buyers, they're looking for deals, then you go find the deals and you bring them to them. And many times when you find a good deal, you have two or three buyers ready to go. Yeah. So let's talk about buyers first. How do you find the buyers? What are some of your shortcuts?
Alicia: Well, you know, it's a lot different than it was 12 years ago. It's a lot to find buyers. It's it's a great time to be entering the space. One of the easiest ways to do this, it's shooting fish in a barrel is to go to the Facebook groups in your market where they're labeled for you, St. Louis Investor Group, whatever. It's pretty straightforward and just be active in those groups. I know a wholesaler who even if he has that under contract, he'll post his deals in there just because everybody right under it will list all of their email addresses, in fact. And you don't even have to post a deal. You can just go in there and grab all the email addresses that everybody puts in the comments under another deal. So right there, you already know, here's buyers for this kind of deal right there.
Joe: There's this is funny, too. And this is all stuff we're going to be talking about in this case study that we're doing. There are so many simple, easy ways to find these buyers. This is just this is the easy part, D.M. people.
Alicia: But, you know, you just be friendly, talk to them. It's not that you're trying to sell them a deal. You're trying to find out what kind, who they are as a buyer and what they're looking for. So list building is free.
Joe: Yeah, I was going to say this, too, real quick. There's an add on you can get on Chrome that if there is a email address anywhere on the screen as you're scrolling up or down, it'll scrape all of those emails with just a click and put them into a spreadsheet for you.
Alicia: Oh, and now you've got me taking notes. Now, that's a good one. It's pretty cool. Thing is, it just depends. Whoever you are, whatever, you know, whatever value you can add, just be consistent on whatever social media outlet you're comfortable with. That makes sense to you. Yeah, for me, that's Twitter. You could find me on Twitter and on Twitter and stand up agent. OK, and I have built a following. I've get at this point most of my buyers that way.
Joe: What is it? I want to write it down here.
Alicia: It's @standupagent. Stand up. Yeah. Stand up agent. Yeah. And so on my account I talk about a lot of basic stuff about transactions because the vast majority of people, you know, they're still learning the phone. They want to get into real estate, but they don't know how to start. So that's that is the audience that I'm mostly speaking to. There's plenty of people on there that I learn from as well that are doing a lot higher level commercial developments or whatever, raising money and all that kind of stuff. My content is more around what kind of opportunities are in my market, like the story. Here's the kind of BRX you can buy here. Here's the kind of short term rental. Here's here are the kind of mistakes that people make when they have a property or listed property, things that people don't understand about inspections of the process, whatever it might be. If you bring value from what you know, you're going to make connections. And I, I do the same things I DM people and say DM them back to ask a question on something they posted or participate in the comments. When you get into those groups and you're active and you're respectful of people's time and expertise you're going to build relationships and at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. But the great thing about this space is those relationships are going to help you on your investment business as well. Yeah.
Joe: So it's a little investment of some time. Not necessarily money, but I'm just a friend of mine texted me something from a turnkey company that was promoting a free book that they're offering. It's just a twenty-page book, but and it's not working. I actually clicked on the link. It's not working right now. But it was a simple work book that gave about six different benefits of owning cash flowing rental real estate. Right? Yeah. And so that is stuff you can take and kind of use and not copy, but use this for your own content. Take it. Do your. You can put in your own words, write somebody else's quote, and give them credit for it, but make your own meme out of it and then use that for your content in the Twitters and the Instagram. Yeah, Facebook's Tic-Tac self and add value.
Alicia: I've done live Q&A threads with other people who have expertise. Yeah, there's a commercial mortgage broker on there that I connected with. Those got a lot of attention we just did because I knew better questions to ask than somebody just starting out. It could be a little time consuming, especially difficult if you have a life unlike me. But so I'm not, especially now we're all a little stuck at home, so it's a great time to get started. But you can do it from your phone. You could do it from your phone.
Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and here's the point to you. If you're wondering, like, what am I going to talk about? Right. There's a hundred books you can get on Amazon right now or in Kindle. There's a thousand videos on YouTube that you could take and used for ideas on how to create content.
Alicia: You could literally go down my Twitter history and retweet and add a quote to anything that I found interesting.
Joe: There's a lot of good podcasts that are talking about cash flow, real estate, that you can take some of their content and repurpose and not copy. Again, I'm not saying about plagiarizing, but like I do just give credit, which is fine. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent pass on there. And here's there's somebody I want to I'm thinking about, but I don't want to use his name because he's controversial. But you can say like, well, bigger pockets. These are these guys are awesome. Right. Like here's a great book from bigger pockets. And listen, this is something I learned about. And then just five minutes talk about these things.
Alicia: Or your experience you can agree or disagree with a point.
Joe: And so if you'd like to learn how to do this in St. Louis, Missouri, which has some of the best rental properties, best market for this kind of stuff, you know, message me right now and I'll send you some inventory. I don't know, whatever.
Alicia: Like, yeah, well, a lot of people will. There's an ongoing debate about if you're an investor, is it a bad idea to get your license? Is it a good idea? Is it a bad idea that. Well, that's a good topic for us now. It's a good topic to get into on social media. You'll get a lot of engagement from after this. People have strong opinions around stuff like that.
Joe: OK, good, good. So now you find buyers. One of the ways I like to find buyers was sending letters to people that were already buying in other hot markets. What I mean by hot market, like turnkey markets, people that we're already buying in Memphis, Tennessee, Indianapolis, Indianapolis, and you can see who are the out-of-state buyers that are already buying over there.
Alicia: And this is what I did that's very easy to pull tax, no easy capital tax write, pull tax records, and maybe you found a deal, pull the tax records from that zip code. Anybody with a with an out-of-state owner address?
Joe: Yeah. And you can message them. You can mail them a letter, get them on the phone and written a handwritten note.
Alicia: Yeah. That's we're that out so much now because a lot of the the buyers and sellers are older and handwritten. Note will make a big difference if you send a thank you note after if they take the time to speak to you on the phone, you get value from it. You send a thank you note. It makes a huge difference and it's not maybe some of the young people watching don't even know how to address an envelope. But look it up on YouTube, it'll be worth it.
Joe: But here's why I'm so excited about this, guys, because here we got at least this is doing five to ten deals a month and not doing the traditional marketing stuff that you hear us do and talk about all the time for sellers. She's doing this simple network marketing almost. It's not an MLM to find buyers that are going looking for deals. Right. All right. So then, Alicia, you get you get a buyer who's interested in some deals and you get them on the phone. You talk to him or her and they're like, yeah, you know, I got five hundred grand just talking to somebody yesterday, two days ago. He's got five hundred grand. They're looking for places to put it and they're looking for inventory. What do you what do you have.So then what do you do? You start building up this list. How do you go find the deals to bring to them?
Alicia: Well, obviously, the MLS, which gets a bad rap with investors, but there's a lot of deals on the MLS. Yes, I'm looking at one right now that I have poorly marketed listings. I mean, let's face it, you'll find you'll find that you will get to know some of the tricks to it or find your own. And maybe I'm sure you've applied some of these tactics yourself besides the ones that are on the market, especially in this market at this point, if it's twenty-one days and it hasn't. Sold, something's going on with that listing, right? It's overpriced, it's overpriced or something, there's bad information. I see that all the time.
Alicia: So when I'm looking for deals, depending on my buyers looking for I'm looking for something that's underpriced and poorly marketed or overpriced for me here in our market in the city, if I see something listed and it's by an agent that almost never does business in the city, usually it's either over or underpriced because it's difficult to price in a city street to street. It's very specific as opposed to subdivisions or they overpriced it because they listen to the seller. But you don't know until you put offers in front of them. I'm sure you've been shocked a couple of times that something was accepted.
Joe: Oh, my gosh, this is my favorite. This is one of my favorite marketing strategies. You find the properties that have been on the market over 30, 60, 90 days and you send them offers. It's really difficult. It's really hard to do. So, like, how long do you go? How many? So sometimes I've done in different ways. But what I prefer to do is send an email to the realtor and I do this through PropStreamJoe.com. If you don't have access to the MLS and say, hey, I saw your listing here, I'm looking at one right now on Hartnett in Maclure and I just say, looks like a nice house. Surprised it hasn't sold yet. It's on Harvey Avenue six three one three five. Yeah, or three bed one bath and surprised it hasn't sold yet. Is the seller negotiable on their price? That's just an email I signed up for, I might say. Would they. I'm surprised it hasn't sold yet. Looks like a real nice house. I'm an investor. Would they maybe consider something in the fifty-to-sixty-thousand-dollar price range? Let me know, because I don't want to waste the realtors time with sending a contract and all that.
Alicia: Yeah, you just get those. Yeah, get those. If you don't have any fancy technology, just use a canned messages lab and drop them in.
Joe: Because this house I'm looking at right now, it's a decent area. It's a good rental neighborhood. Right. But there's a tenant in there and the seller wants to sell it. And the first thing on the description is in bold capitals with asterisks. Do not disturb the tenant, right? Well, yeah, it's been on the market now. Forty something days and maybe the sellers starting to get a little motivated. They haven't sold it yet. I'm like, oh man. And you just say, hey, maybe you're asking eighty thousand for it. Would you consider maybe sixty-five thousand for it or something. And you know the buyers that would, we were looking for deals like that and they're not afraid to take a property with a tenant in it. So make the offer, make the offers.
Alicia: You just never know. And sometimes a no now. Yes, later, because sometimes it just has to cook a little longer. Yeah. So that's definitely one strategy. As an agent, just as an agent, I have emailed top luxury price range agents with high price points that, hey, you know, I sell a lot of investment property between this and this price. And those agents are getting my former clients referring people and they trust me, they don't want to do a sixty thousand dollar rental house. They don't want to mess with it. They're selling half a million-dollar homes. I'm in another part of our market. Yeah. So I have gotten referrals, a lot of referral business from agents.
Alicia: And which brings me back to another advantage as an investor of being an agent is that relationships that you get with other realtors, a lot of them don't want to mess with you at all, with your market as at all. And they will gladly toss you and just offer them just say, hey, if something if you have a buyer that's looking in this market that gets referred to you, I will make sure you get no less than a thousand-dollar referral fee or if you have a seller because they're so cheap they don't see any money in it might not even bother referring the person to anybody. If you don't offer them some value.
Joe: And they're more likely to talk to you when you tell them you're an agent with so-and-so and they are just like, yeah, much, much more likely to do it.
Alicia: And they can check you out in the MLS, they can see my name in my off-market stuff after the fact. If none of the parties mind, I'll record the sale. Because of that, the other agents can check out your sale history and they can see that you're for real and they are checking, checking that out. So there's a reputation building within the agent world that can work in your favor.
Joe: Now, I know this is going to bring up a question a lot of people have is like, well, you're OK. You're dealing with in St. Louis, one hundred-thousand-dollar homes. You must not be making that much commission. But you can make three to five grand on each of these and more can't you?
Alicia: You can. And that doesn't really sound like a lot of money to people. But when you really at the end of the day, you've got to decide how much are you making per hour. So if I'm selling an inexpensive property, I'm not like you mentioned earlier, I'm not running around with that buyer. I put one under contract this week when their tenant occupied somebody on my team typically does the video picture tour, we market it. I've never I will never set foot in that property. Personally, the inspector will go, yeah, my team member will go. The inspector will go. Because they're out of state anyway. They're going to have an inspection as they should. Yeah. And they're going to get a written report. So how many hours really have I put into that deal? So if I get paid thirty five hundred dollars on a sixty thousand dollar property, I've got my assistant has an hour into that and I've got a couple hours.
Joe: On the low end. Thirty-five hundred bucks. And you guys, you've got to remember this to keep on coming back to this. If you hear these people doing big deals, right, they're average profits are seven thousand, five thousand, ten thousand dollars. What they're not telling you is the two, three, four, five thousand dollars they put into marketing exactly for that deal.
Alicia: Which is why I never begrudge a wholesaler their overspread. Yeah, a lot of realtors will be like, well, they're not even fixing up the house. It's as if they're making all this money, like they probably traipsed through untold numbers of properties to get that deal. Spent hours on the phone and hundreds of dollars on marketing, thousands.
Joe: But you're absolutely right. So, like your hourly rate is many times, not all the time, but many times better. And for me, I'm kind of lazy. I mean, I'm not that I'm not a retard, but like, I don't know if I have the choice of making thirty-five hundred bucks, maybe five grand and only working a couple hours versus making ten grand and working 20, 30 hours for that. I would rather do the one that's less hours.
Alicia: Yeah. I mean don't get me wrong, I love selling. I've sold a million-dollar 30 house package. I guess you have to traipse there. Oh yeah. 30, 30 miles. Yeah, yeah.
Joe: I totally get it. So I also just want clear to you're not like a traditional turnkey company either, where you're not managing the property, you're not managing the rehab, you're not doing any of that. Right?
Alicia: No, I'm not. I'm not doing any of that. We offer our clients a list of managers that we have referrals from and they're welcome to screen. I've done conference calls and helped buyers ask the right questions to screen potential managers. Yeah, but at the end of the day, it's the buyer's choice. So I educate, but I'm not running now. That's a whole nother business, that is.
Joe: And there's a place for that, too. But that's wow. That's a lot of work again. All right. So you get the deals for these buyers from the MLS. You go look on, you kind of get an idea what their budget is, what they're looking for, rent. You know, you go look at properties. Maybe you could just call the agents, those listing agents and see, hey, is your client negotiable? Would they accept something five, 10 percent less? Then you also network with other wholesalers and other wholesalers to bring you deals as well. Right. So you get on on their buyer's list.
Alicia: I sell a lot of off market through relationships, and I do do targeted mailings. Sometimes if inventory is low and that's well, that's part of the reason that I ended up contacting you about this, because I got into your simple lease option, of course. Well, my husband's doing it mostly, but we have a VA making calls. But at the same time, I have a licensed assistant who's helping me with the on the listing side. Yeah. So it's a two for one. It might be a deal for us as investors. That could be a listing or it could be inventory for one of my one of my buyers. So it's not time consuming for us and it's not our focus. The MLS is for the most part and digging for four deals on the on the MLS.
Joe: Do you find because inventory is tighter, that buyers maybe are more what do you call it, or more not as they don't have a strict requirement on the deals are looking for? I mean, they know like man getting a ten-cap rate or getting a cash-on-cash return of ten percent or whatever is not as easy as it used to be. I'm going to have to settle for eight percent cash on cash.
Alicia: And I think that as a real estate agent and I know there's a lot of non-MLS sources for valuations, but nothing is quite as effective as being able to take in the MLS. It's to uncover what's going on now with inventory and how much inventory there is available. But I think that what I do is just tell them at this moment I'm not going to let you overpay because I do think that their people are going a little bit crazy. You and I have been along around this market long enough to know. So I will tell them that this location maybe you're paying a little bit more than you would have paid last year, but it's still it's a little of work out for you because for these reasons. But, yeah, I also have to tell them that twenty-five thousand dollars turnkey rental deal doesn't exist with very little exception. That's not going to exist right now in this market, in this location. So you're going to have to change your price point. You're going to have to change your location. You're going have to go from C class to D class, one or the other. That's the one thing we can't do. We can't, the market, even for those of us who do a good job over turning over rocks and finding good deals, there's still only so far it can be stretch right between terms or price allocation.
Alicia: You said when you when you colleagues, a colleague as an agent, there's always exceptions and there's always those deals that people need to move fast, and when people know that you're an agent representing a lot of cash buyers and something has to close, I've had an agent call me and say my buyer fell out. It's a short sale. We have to close tomorrow and sold it. So that's one of the advantages to being not only in this niche as an agent, but also as an investor, that, you know, when you're doing that and people know that you close the deals because you do such a good job vetting your buyers deals kind of can land in your lap at the same time. But, yeah, it's a little tough.
Joe: I want to I want to show something here because I think this will help explain kind of what it is that Alysha does and what we're going to be teaching in this case study. I'm going to try to share my screen here and see if it works. And application window. Oh, here it is. Good, good, good. All I did here is go to Redfin or zoom in a little bit. And I just look in Florissant and I kind of removed boundary. This is a great little market for rental properties and I went into Redfin. This is free. Anybody can do. House on Redfin more than 30 days. That's it. Price between seventy-five. One hundred and twenty-five thousand. There's just sixteen homes here. And you start looking through some of these things. These are nice, solid homes, all brick, and maybe they're asking 80 grand. And there's a reason why it's been on the market for two days is number one, it has a tenant in it. And number two, it's probably overpriced. But you can go find you can go make offers at like fifty-five, sixty thousand where it will work and you never know that investor and just keep on following up. These are really, really good, solid homes. All right. Well anyway, what you can do then is you put together these PDFs and this is one of them that I just did. And we're going to show you how to do this in the course where you can get these professional looking presentations and send them to your buyers and really impress them. This is a house in Oklahoma City that I was just messing around with.
Alicia: Yeah, this is especially good for out-of-state buyers as they get a full profile and they get the everything package to one area at one place for the street view in the map.
Joe: And this shows them you can get two hundred twenty dollars a month cash flow, twelve percent cap rate and twenty eight percent cash on cash return. Now this was not a real deal. I was just playing with it. But a lot of these buyers, they love the numbers. Right. And these are spreadsheets. You can do this from your phone, just putting in some basic numbers. It tracks their expenses there with including vacancies and operating expenses and loan payments that they put money down for buy and hold projections one to five years, 10, 20, 30 years. This is all customizable and it gives them also based on figuring in their tax benefits. So figuring also in taking deductions for loan interest, for example, and depreciation and depreciation, which is badly overlooked. Yes, super important. And then here is all of their investment returns. All I did to create this report and it took me a couple of minutes was pull a property that was already listed for sale and put the numbers in here. And then you can get really good comps, sale comps and you can get rental comps from the software.
Joe: And we're going to show you how to do this. And by the way, we're going to give this software away for free. And you can give away purchase criteria analysis here. And this analysis will show based on the investor, what's most important to them is if the one percent rules at the 50 percent rule is that cash flow at least a couple hundred bucks, cash on cash return of 10 percent or whatever that is, and then you can include the pictures and all of that. So this is a deal that Alicia actually sent to me that she just this property you just sold or is available right now. We just listed it last week, OK, it's a multifamily 11 units. But this report, how long would you say, I know you were just kind of learning this, but how long did you think it took you to put this up? Ten minutes. Ten minutes. This is amazing. So great. Cash flow. Thirteen hundred a month. Cash flow, eight percent cap rate. Thirteen percent, cash on cash return description of the property, the map, the rent roll. You can do this for single families or multi families.
Alicia: You have to plug in the information that the seller provided us. Yeah.
Joe: And you're figuring probably what is that, twenty percent or 15 percent down or something like that?
Alicia: Well, it's commercial so we figured twenty five percent down.
Joe: Twenty five percent down. You put in the interest rates. So this is figuring in all the financing costs, repairs, cash, and this is just year one. So when it's negative, it'll be red. You're figuring in a 10 percent rehab cost overrun. 10 percent vacancies, three percent appreciation income, increasing expenses, increase selling costs, value of the land and then cash flow per unit total nineteen hundred net cash flow. That's net cash flow after all your expenses, utilities, management, all that good stuff, your projections. So this is what I'm saying is you can put this together real quickly and send it to your buyers and they will love this.
Alicia: Yeah, we just turned it. We just made it a drive link. We sent it out with a little profile.
Joe: You look at this. Look how much deductions they get in their first year. Forty-nine grand and deductions they get to take. Now, I'm not a tax guy. I don't know.
Alicia: Yeah, but the depreciation is a lot of buyers look at cash flow only. Oh yeah. I'm actually going to be doing one of those Q&A threads on Twitter with a client of mine. CPA to explain about depreciation, but this is what I love about this is this is a quick and easy presentation, but it really impresses clients because investor agents are like unicorns. There's retail agents that will take a listing like this, but they will have no concept of presenting a presentation like this. They'll just go to put the basic info. The buyer's agent and the buyers do the work to try to figure all of this out. And a commercial agent often won't put that much time into a small building like this either because they are doing a larger deal.
Alicia: So this is why this niche is so great. It's not, like I said earlier, a lot of my clients chose me before the market because I could speak investment and I would give them something with numbers like this so they can actually analyze the deal quickly. They're busy people. They're full-time professionals. They're not full-time real estate investors. And that's why this niche is so great, whether you're coming at it as a realtor or whether you're coming at it from the investor side. If you can add to your income as an investor on the realtor side, you can really stabilize her income. You won't have these big gaps after each homeowner finishes their transaction because your investor buyers going to come back.
Joe: Well, I love it. I love it. And so we're going to be doing a study called License to Earn. That's what the name of it's going to be so far. And we've got a couple of different domains that we're looking at getting support right now. If you're interested, as you're listening to this, we are going to start this case study in a few days. If you go to JoeMcCall.com/realtor, if you're listening to this online, JoeMcCall.com/realtor, we're going to show you how to make money as an agent working with investors. This is something that you don't have to stop doing your regular wholesaling if you don't want. You don't have to stop doing your traditional realtor stuff if you don't want. No, not at all. But like this is this is just an easy way, like making three to five grand on each one of these. If you just did two of them a month what kind of difference would that make?
Alicia: A huge difference to your average realtor makes us a little less than 50 grand a year.
Joe: I forgot to talk about that. I mentioned at the beginning. Yeah, that's the average full-time realtor.
Alicia: Your average full-time realtor earns less than a little less than fifty grand a year. And this is actually you want you're like but I love doing open houses. I love working with buyers that no one ever there's no well some somewhere else too. I didn't, I didn't make that up. They do do you don't have to stop doing that. You can do now is turn your buyers, help them with their first rental property. Now, I have another reason to go to your regular clients and say, hey, you ever thought about buying the rental property? You know, when they're buying now in my buyers, what I do occasionally work with a regular buyer. That's who I'm talking to them at the from that perspective, from the jump, because nobody stays in a job for 20, 30, 40 years anymore. You might be moving. But what happens if you move? Is this could this be the rental property and it starts the conversation. So it only adds to your income as a realtor and it only adds to your income as an investor. And that's what I love about this niche.
Joe: All right. So in this case, study is going to be a live case study where we're going to be releasing modules and teaching you how to do this every week as we progress. And so Elisa and I, mainly Elisa, are going to be teaching you, number one, how this business works. It's super simple. Number two, how to find these buyers. And we're going to show you multiple different ways. You may not be into social media. You may hate Twitter. Trump may have ruined Twitter for you. So, like, I have an and you're not going to get banned from Twitter by talking about real estate. We'll just tell you that. All right. So we're going to show you how to get the buyers. Maybe it's social media, maybe it's direct mail. Maybe it's just hanging out on a few different, bigger pockets, forms and things like that. Then we're going to show you once you get the buyers, how do you talk to them? Like, what do you say to them? What are some of the things that Alysha does to make sure that you're not wasting your time with tire kickers? Right. Because that can be a huge time suck. Right. So how do you what are they looking at? Asking the right questions to find out what they're looking for. And then, all right, now you got some good buyers.
Joe: How do you find the deals plus deals out? Yeah, and we're going to give you access to the software for free also in there. It's pretty amazing. And you can just in minutes pull up these beautiful reports. You could even if you had good buyers, you could even just take that live in California. Let's say, for example, you could just go straight to the MLS at asking price on some of these deals and put together a report like this and send it to your buyers out of state and see if any of them are interested in it. Right.
Alicia: Yeah, it doesn't even matter if they are or not, it gets them to respond and then you get more information about they really want. We're also going to give everybody a copy of my course how to buy your first rental property. Oh, yeah, that's right. Because if you have never sold investment property, it's going to take you through that whole. Process and you're going to be able to refer to it over and over, and if you have but you've never sold one to somebody else, you bought your own. It's going to teach you how to do things from the inside.
Joe: Well, this is cool, too, because people can't people give this course to some of their buyers as well?
Alicia: They can they can actually sell a copy as an affiliate. Yeah. And that's a good way to see how vested that buyer is. Yeah. It's not an expensive course. It's under one hundred dollars, well under one hundred dollars. But if somebody is really invested and they're serious about buying, I have any problem dropping 50, 60 bucks on a course that prepares them for the process.
Joe: Yeah. And this is something that's already done. You don't have to worry about being the teacher or the educator teaching.
Alicia: You're going to save you so much time and stuff. Do the process. They're going to have half a clue of what they're doing by the time you start.
Joe: Yeah, very good. So Alicia, already has that course done for you that you can give to your buyers or buy for them or sell it to them for 50, 60 bucks, whatever, and make an affiliate commission from that? Right. All right. So then, yeah, we'll show you how it all works together in the real world because it's different than the investor world. But here's the other cool thing about doing this as a license that a lot of people forget and overlook. As you know there, if you're doing deals as a wholesaler, you don't have errors in emissions insurance, for example. But as a if you do this as a realtor, you have I wouldn't say the little you have a lot more protection.
Alicia: You do. And your broker is you have somebody helping you with compliance work and stuff. And it's just one less thing to be concerned about. If anybody is nervous about wholesaling in certain states like Illinois, we're seeing this over and over and over again.
Joe: Illinois, Oklahoma tried to pass a law and they're trying to pass it again where it's becoming harder and harder, almost illegal to wholesale deals. And this just eliminates all of that just makes everything so much easier. So awesome. I'm excited about this. What we're going to do is it's going to be we don't know. It's going to be for maybe five or six weeks, but it'll just be we'll be giving you a little bit at a time, giving you time to go implement it. We're going to teach you you're going to go then and implement it. And then you're going to come back with questions and we'll be doing a coaching calls on once a week during this case study. And Alicia will be available to answer your questions like, OK, this is maybe you should do it this way. Look at it this way and then we'll give you support where you can come in and ask questions about the best way to do this stuff. We're going to give you all of Alicia's resources and the tools that you use to find these deals. Yeah, you get it all in a membership site so you can access it and use it later when the case study is done. So this is a new program we're creating. We're going to be selling this way cheaper than it's going to be in the future, because we want we're looking for testimonials. We're looking for case studies and people that we can use as an example of, hey, look at Susan. This is what she did. This is how it worked for her. So it's going to be pretty cool. I'm excited about it. This idea, this case studies like three or four times a year. I've been wanting to do this one for a long time. Cool.
Alicia: Anything else you want to add to this that just to wrap it up, just if you're like I said before, if you're an investor or a realtor right now, this is just going to make your life easier and grow your income without doing too much more than what you're already doing or even if you're a new agent, this is going to make your income go a lot higher than the average. So let's just put it that way. Yeah.
Joe: Oh, yeah. This is going to be really, really good. I know this is going to be super valuable and important for a lot of you looking for other options, otheralternatives? All right, guys, go to JoeMcCall.com/realtor, JoeMcCall.com/realtor. All the information for when this class starts will be on there. And even if you're listening to this or watching it after it started, if you go to that same link, it's redirected to the to the new page. And we're going to have and that will you'll get all the information about what it is and what's what we're going to cover and all that good stuff. Cool. Alicia. Thank you so much.
Alicia: Thank you. Looking forward to it.
Joe: We'll see you guys all soon. Again, go to JoeMcCall.com/realtor, to get more information on this course. And we'll see you guys later. Thank you. Thanks.