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  • 968 » How to Become “Stimulus Ineligible” Part 1 – What’s Going To Work in 2021

I absolutely don’t want to knock people who are struggling right now. But if you’re interested in never receiving a stimulus again, I want to help you. There’s a reason we call a job, a J-O-B, or Just Over Broke. Stop living paycheck-to-paycheck. Stop grinding for that W-2 money. Let’s lay out the exact plan you need to follow to guarantee yourself $75,000 a year in income.

I want you to be brilliant at the basics, so let’s not overcomplicate everything you need to do to succeed in real estate. I’m going to focus on the simple things you can focus on no matter what direction the market is going in, and I’m going to include a super simple marketing plan that will build your lead pipeline.

If you’re ready to make yourself “stimulus ineligible” going forward, you should be closing between one and two deals a month. Working backward, that means you need to make 30 offers for every deal that closes, and that means you need to make 3 offers a day. This is completely doable and totally within your control. We’re going to break down what you need to do on a very granular level so you can see what you can control to make this happen.

Leave no lead behind in your quest to change your future in 2021. And stay tuned for part 2 where we make it even easier for you to crush your financial goals.

Watch and Learn:

Listen and learn:

What’s inside:

  • Working backwards, you only need to talk to five sellers and make three offers every single day.
  • Don’t worry about filling your day up with a second job; we’re talking about all of the different ways to outsource your marketing.
  • How I use Zillow to figure out a rough estimate for lease options, owner financing, cash offers, and tenant buyers. 
  • Your speed to income is directly proportional to the number of offers that you make.

Mentioned in this episode:


Download episode transcript in PDF format here…

Joe: All right, guys, what's going on, everybody? How you doing? Joe, here. Hope you guys are doing well. Are you doing awesome or what? Hey, listen, we're going to be having some people join me here in a minute, like my good friend and coaching business partner, Gavin Timms. And I'm going to have my assistant, Dana, on here in a minute as well to kind of help us with the questions. In fact, here comes Gavin right now. Gavin, good. How are you? Welcome. Happy New Year, everybody. Happy, happy New Year. Hope you're doing well when we do these big coaching calls normally here around Zoom or something like that. Gavin and I are going to be doing it now inside of Stream Yard because we want to go out to Facebook and YouTube and then we'll send out a replay of this later on, maybe as we go through.  Gavin, you're good. You hear me? I know you guys can't see it yet, but my studio, I'm setting up my suit. I have a brand. 

Joe: I don't have the big bookshelves over there. I have an empty bookshelf and a fancy light and another light that's going to be my backlight or whatever, but I can't figure out how to turn it all on. So my little light remote thing here is dead. So I can't use my, I got a nice fancy camera with the teleprompter and the monitors and the lights. I can't use any of it. So I'm on my laptop, on my desk right now. So hope you guys are doing well. Listen, the theme for this call that we're doing for you all is we're going to teach you here real quick how to become ineligible for the stimulus. It would be interested in learning how to become stimulus in eligible. If you can hear us or see us right now on Facebook and YouTube, type something in the comments, say hello, give us a thumbs up. And if you are interested in learning how to become an eligible for the stimulus, type something in right now into the comments. 

Joe: We've got guys like Al. What's up, Al? How are you? Willis' in the house. We've got Melissa. Hey, what's up, Melissa? We do a lot of deals with Melissa in Alabama. Our good buddy Sam Hodgett is here in the house. Nice. Glad you guys are here. So Theresa has found us. She says, hey, it was hard to find you, but we're glad you're here. So right now in Facebook, Ryan. Yes. And eligible for the stimulus. Gravens in the House. Yo, what's up? Patricia Night. Where did she go? We would, yes. THERESA Hello. From Maryland. Hey, how are you doing? Hey, GM, who's GM? We're glad you're here. Anyway, we've got Brian. 

Joe: Absolutely. Good morning, Joe and Gavin from Maryland. Levi. Hello, Larry. I'm ready to learn. Melissa Of course. Yes. I'm already stimulus ineligible eligible ELO. Well, so you guys are here in the House, so congratulations. When you post in Facebook and YouTube, we can bring up your comments like Melissa's here. So we want you guys to. And Brian. Yes, this thing is working. We're glad you're here. Absenting alertly. Oh, GM means good morning. Very cool. Scott St. Louis in the house. Now, listen, guys, to Melissa, who is just saying a minute, she's already stimulus and she's saying thanks to you guys. By the way, the other day I posted something on Facebook where I went to some online page site, website, and I designed my own t shirt and I put on the t shirt ineligible for the stimulus or stimulus in eligible. As a joke because I'm not eligible for the stimulus. 

Joe: Gavin isn't, Melissa, who is one of our coaching students, who's now crushing it, doing a ton of deals with Gavin and on her own in a couple of different states, she's not eligible for the stimulus. So anyways, I did it as a joke. I put it on Facebook for fifteen minutes and everybody, not everybody, but a lot of people tore me apart. They're like, that is super insensitive. You are a jackass, you're an idiot. And how could you say that? People are suffering and people are hurting and you're bragging about how much money you make. I was like, all right. You know, I felt really bad. I felt like this tall. I felt really, really low. And I was like, I don't want to talk. We're not going to talk about politics, by the way, on this call either. And we're not going to talk about anything to do with politics so you can all relax. All right. But I feel I have always tried to steer clear of talking about politics and anything really controversial in my Facebook. But when I posted that, I thought, man, I'm I think I'm really on to something right now. Right. Like, obviously, everybody's talking about it. There's a lot of people that are hurting. A lot of people right now on this call need the stimulus money to help them. Right. 

Joe: So I was thinking, when we do this coaching call, let's teach people how to become ineligible for any future stimulus in 2021 and who is interested? And Rob is interested. He's given us a thumbs up here. And most people hate having a W-2. That's right. But some people, they like it. But I think most people here in the house like Jamie. Good morning, Jamie. How you doing, Rob? Again from Houston. A lot of you guys, you don't want to be reliant on the government. You don't want to be reliant on a. Paycheck every two weeks. Do you know one of the things when I was working Gavyn, I was very frustrated with knowing that if my company fired me, I could probably find another job. I was working as a civil engineer for a big contractor building power plants. I knew I could find another job, but I'd probably have to move. 

Joe: And I was always just had this fear of not in control of my own destiny if my company fired me or let me go. I was two weeks away from bankruptcy like I was paycheck to paycheck. And I hated the fact that I couldn't control I couldn't take care of my family without being reliant on an employer. That maybe one day is just like what? We don't want you anymore. We're cutting your position. The economy is hit. And we were really reliant on large, big electrical contractors and public utilities because we were building projects for them. What if they just say, yeah, you know what, we don't need you guys anymore, we're shutting the job down? And I wanted to be more in control. And the harder I worked, I got paid the same every two weeks. Right. No matter how hard I work, no matter how much profit I brought to the company, I got paid the same. If I was lucky, I got a two or three percent raise at the end of the year or maybe a little bonus. That is frustrating. 

Joe: And I decided it's not safe to have a job and to invest in the retirement like a 401k. I mean, rely on the on the employer to help you fund your retirement. That is the most unsafe thing that you can think you can rely on an employer or a 401k or the government with the stimulus checks here to keep you and your family afloat, you're in big trouble. Right? So like Al right here says, I'm tired of the just over broke system. That's right. That's what a job is, just overbroad. And I love Patricia. She says, I would rather help those who need the stimulus. And then this one, Larry, I'm retired. Thank you for the upgrade. So I don't want to knock people. Let me just be super clear. I don't want to knock people that are aren't have received the stimulus already. That's awesome. I think, you know, there's some people that really, really need it. There's a lot of guys that don't need it and you still got it. But whatever let's figure out on this call how to become ineligible for the stimulus. If you're here, you're interested in learning how to flip real estate, how to do wholesaling, how to do lease options subject to creative financing, whatever we're going to teach you, like the right way to do things so that you can focus on how to crush it this year. 

Joe: By the end of the year, we're going to talk we're going to give you a marketing plan here in a minute. And we're going to start answering all of your questions. This is what we're going to do, guys. We're going to share some cool things with you just real quick, like what we see working in twenty, twenty one and how you can become stimulus ineligible. I'm going to help you create I'm gonna show you a real simple way to create a marketing plan because we're going to talk about being brilliant at the basics. It's one of my favorite phrases in this business, being brilliant at the basics and understanding what are the simple things you need to be focused on, no matter what condition or direction the market is going in, we're going to help you create a simple little marketing plan that you can fill out and do on your own while we're doing this. 

Joe: OK, and then the next thing is we're going to be just answering a lot of your questions. So a lot of people are already typing things in Facebook, some YouTube comments here. If you're just joining us, a lot of people have been joining in late. Please type in. Hello. And tell us where you're from in the Facebook or YouTube comments, because we can see them. And if you have a good question, we can pull them up like Kim is asking here. I want to learn how to flip lots. So we're going to answer those kinds of questions. You just type them into Facebook or the YouTube comments. We can see them below and we will answer. All right. So we're going to do I'm going to do a marketing plan for you guys. I'm just going to open up a simple spreadsheet and share my screen with you, OK? I'm not going to make this anything fancy because I want it to be simple that you guys so you guys can actually do it yourself. All right. And I'm going to make sure this works. 

Joe: I'm going to share my screen and I'm going to pick my application window. Cool. And then, Gavin, do you see the spreadsheet here? I don't know if I spelled ineligible right or wrong marketing. This is a simple Google spreadsheet OK? And don't worry about getting the spreadsheet. I'm going to do my best to kind of just make it simple here so you can just follow along and you can do this on a napkin or a piece of paper. All right. And Gavin, if I'm my Internet connection is bad, let me know my I'm hard wired and I have really fast, but ah, at least here now to be stimulus and eligible, you need to make at least seventy-five thousand dollars a year as a single person. 

Joe: One hundred and fifty thousand dollars if you're filing together as a family. OK, so let's just say your revenue goal is seventy-five thousand dollars. You want to make seventy-five thousand dollars. Why is this, why do we need to write this down. Because in a marketing plan you can't control. We want a marketing plan that shows us things that we need to do that we can control. OK, you can't control making seventy-five grand a year. 

Joe: You can't control that. You do one deal. Your average profit is five thousand dollars a month. For that, you have to talk to you have to make 20 offers to get one, except you can't control those kinds of numbers. But what you can control are the basic things that we're going to be talking about, things that you can do every single day. All right. So let's break this out. Let's say your average profit per vehicle is five thousand dollars and being real conservative. OK, so number of deals that you need to do, you take that divide it by that equals that divided by. There we go. You need to do 15 deals in a year to make one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Right. Listen, let's just make this actually let's say your average net profit is four thousand dollars. So we would figure in a thousand dollars. On average, you're going to spend about a thousand dollars in marketing and VA costs per deal and being super conservative. 

Joe: So you need to do eighteen point eight deals per year, number of deals per month. I'm just making this building a slope so you guys can kind of do this yourself as well, right? By the time you need to do one point five deals per month to make seventy-five thousand dollars a year, if your average gross profit is five thousand dollars and then your average marketing and VA cost is a thousand dollars, so your average net profit per deal is four thousand dollars. OK, now that's one point six deals per month. Let's just round up to two deals. 

Joe: Now, how many sellers, how many offers do you need to make to get a deal to deal under contract offers her, let's just say, offers per view. I'm going to be conservative again here. Let's say you have to make 30 offers. And by the way, you should be making an offer to every single seller you talk to. So you need to make 30 offers to get one deal. So offers per month to make two times 30 to make 60 offers per month. Right now, how many is that per week that divided by four point? There's actually four point three three three weeks on average per month. You need to make about 14 offers per week. All right. Now, how many offers per day? Let's say there's five days per week, right. Eco-System, you need to make sure you see where I'm going here with this. You need to make three offers per day. 

Joe: That, for some of you, may sound like a lot. All right. It's really not. We're going to show you how to make real simple offers. But this is what now we're getting down into things that you can control. You can't control making four thousand dollars net profit per deal. You can't control at the average offers number of options you need to make to get one deal is thirty. Right. But you can't control what how many offers per day that you make. Are we still good, Gavin? 

Joe: You're good. And you guys, you can't see the comments, so only I can see the comments in the stream. Or I should have figured this out because maybe I can make one of you the admins, but. All right, we'll just go back to the spreadsheet here, so. And you can see my screen, OK? 

Joe: Yeah, good. Now your video is back. Good as well. So we're OK. Now, let's figure out what are two different types of marketing that we can do. All right. Let's just look at direct mail as one example. OK, so number of leads now. What percent of our leads come from postcards? Well, let's say fifty percent of our leads come from postcards. I'm just using this as an example. It may be yellow letters. It may for you be texting Zillow for sale by owners. It may be cold calling. I'm just doing something real simple here to kind of give you an idea of what we're talking about. So number of leads from postcard. How many leads do you need from postcards per month? Well, if you need and when I say offers per deal, this is the. Like offers or leads. So I need if I need 30 a month, I need equals this time 30, I need 15. Leave the month from postcards. Now, if my average response rate from a postcard is one percent number of postcards per month, how many postcards do I need to send per month to get 15 read? 

Joe: So I just take 15 divided by one percent. I need to send fifteen hundred postcards a month to get 15 weeks. Right. No, I did it wrong. Look, a spreadsheet can tell you whatever you want it to tell you. So it's actually 50 percent times. We need 60 leads per month. OK, you can always let's say it's a half of one percent, zero point five percent. That means you need to send six thousand postcards a month or you need to send thirteen hundred eighty five postcards a week. See now how we've breaking this up into things you can control. What kind of marketing could you do? Let's look at how about texting Zillow, OK, texting Zillow Rentals, Facebook and the persistent and leads from this. Let's say it's twenty five percent. All right. So you're going to need a number of leads. That’s twenty five percent time 60. Right. Number of meet leads needed. You're going to need 15 leads from a what's the average response rate for this? It's going to be a little better maybe let's say two percent, which means a one hundred text messages I might get. 

Joe: Well it's going to be better than that, let's say five percent. If I send one hundred text messages. I'm going to get about five that say, yeah, I might be interested. OK, so number of texts per month going to be fifteen divided by five percent. I need to send three hundred texts per month. How many texts per week that's going to be equals. Three hundred three point sixty-nine per week. Right. How many texts. One day if I'm working five days a week. Fourteen texts a day. Or you see where we're going here now. That's only seventy five percent of our leads us do one more and we'll just make this one simple let's say cold call and that's going to be this right there and shrink this a little bit here. So we need twenty five percent time. Sixty-three fifty is now this is going to be a little different on average. 

Joe: You need to cold call. Gavin, maybe you can help me with the numbers here. If you cold call and if a VA cold calls, we help you all set this up. If a VA cold calls about a couple of three hours. They might get one or two leads. Is that right? 

Gavin: It's only one to two leads every three to four hours across all markets. That's kind of what you're looking at. 

Joe: Let's say two leads for three to four hours. Yeah. So just being conservative and this is a VA doing the cold calling for you. This is what we do. You get two leads for every four hours. Hope I'm doing this right. Just watch my math here. A number of four hour shifts of eight, four-hour shifts. OK, so how many. It's thirty-two hours a month. Thirty-two hours a month. Hours per month. Cold calling. Yeah, it's going to be eight times four. Thirty, be thirty-two hours per week cold calling the this divided by four. 

Joe: All right, so that's happening right now. This could be a VA or you. If you don't have a VA yet, you're doing the cold calling. What I've just done here is I've now created a marketing plan that shows you things that you can do that you need to be doing every week or every day. So if you want to make seventy five grand a year, guess what? You need to be making three offers a day. There is no magic push button. Money falls from the sky. You see what I'm doing here? I try to do this. I already have the spreadsheet kind of made in another in some of my courses. You know, I could have just given you the spreadsheet, but I wanted to build it for you so you could see how these numbers kind of work. And you can do this on a napkin or a piece of paper just with a calculator. You need to figure out, guys, how many offers do you need to make a day to make your goal of seventy-five grand a year to become stimulus and eligible? So you need to talk to at least. I want you guys to make it a goal to talk to at least five sailors a day. 

Joe: And make at least three offers to those five soldiers, so as you talked, you might talk to somebody that tells you to jump off a cliff and die, or if you ever call me again, I'm going to kill you or whatever, what some people were telling me when I did my stimulus and eligible shirt. But like, that's your goal. This is not complicated. This is not rocket science. If you're understanding this, guys, are you picking up what I'm laying down? Are you smelling what I'm stepping in? As one of my former bosses used to say, like, this is it. There's no magic rocket science formula. There's no red pill takes work. You've got to talk to sellers every single day and you'll be making offers to every single seller you talk to. 

Gavin: I was just going to say everyone watching as well, like when Joe's built the numbers on the spreadsheet, it might kind of like stretch you out. The goal is five sellers a day and three offers a day. So if you're going to take anything from this is obviously you're going to build a marketing plan to understand when you have a plan, you can now take action on that plan. 

Gavin: So we should have the plan in place of what marketing you're doing to get the leads in. You're looking to try and get an average of five a day if you can if you can handle that many. Now, some people in jobs, if you're working long hours, you might not be able to do five a day, but at least get three a day into making three offers a day. What's going to happen over a period of time, 15 hours a week, 60 hours a month? You're going to start doing deals, right? And after a month, they might be jumping ahead to the follow up will kick in, which is then the most important thing. So on your school card or on your daily activity, you will then have on day thirty one lesson is 30 days in the month. On day thirty-one, you're now going to have your three or five new set of leads, plus your three follow up offers that you need to follow up on. And as a rule of thumb, if you start doing that follow up over a period of time, that's how then you're going to start going from one day to nine to three to four deals over a period of time. 

Joe: Yes. So I'm going to show you real quick here. I have a scorecard. This is a scorecard that we can give to all of our students. And we work with this. We help them come up with a marketing plan. We've helped them figure out places where they're going to scrape the information from Zillow. We help them figure out their top zip codes, which she doesn't have. Then this is what we give them here. This is a scorecard and this comes from the marketing plan. But this is this is a simpler version of it. But if your monthly revenue goal is ten thousand a month and your average profit per deal four thousand dollars per deal, average number of leads per deal is 30. So you need three and a half leads per day. And this is where the money is. Writing down the thing that you're going to be doing. What is your daily? We need to track your numbers so daily you're going to send you're going to make one hundred and fifty. You're going to send 100 texts a day. They're going to do five Facebook messages and you're going to send letters a week to 20 letters a day. Now, you start tracking your numbers every single week, every single day. 

Joe: However you want to do it in a spreadsheet, you're going to start tracking the number of the dials you made, the text you sent, the postcards and Facebook messages you send and things like that. You can start tracking your numbers here. And guess what? As you're not going to see a whole lot of traction your first three or four weeks, you'll be tracking in your numbers of sellers. You're talking to the number of offers that you make. But guess what? This follow up column right here is blank. There's no there's no follow up because you typically follow up every 30 days. Right. Where the power of this comes from, guys, is the follow up because 90 percent of your deals come from follow up. So on week five, you're going to start following up with all of the offers you made on week one. All the sellers you talk to and offers you made on week one of six, you're going to start following up with all of the sellers you talked to in week two. 

Joe: But guess what happens? Then in week nine and 10, week nine, you're going to start following up with all the sellers you talked to in week one and week five. So it makes sense. Then in week thirteen, I think it's going to be, I don't know, week 13. You're going to follow up with all the sellers from week one, week five and week nine. Now you can see how this starts, Cascade. If 90 percent of your deals come from the follow up, more follow up you do, the more deals you're going to do. We looked at the numbers gap. What would you talk about this for a second when you looked at the numbers at one time in the last 12 months, how many deals we did? What came forward? 

Gavin: Yeah, we did. I think we did. Fifty-eight deals. Fifty-four came from follow up. So we only landed full deals that came in within the first phone call. The others came from follow up, which is probably I think about ninety three percent, if I remember rightly, a follow up over a period of time. The other thing is as well, you should write this down, but profit is in the follow up because all your marketing efforts that's going this month, you might get rewarded in month one for them. You might do a deal, but over a period of time, that marketing spend is going to ten times your return over a period of time. Right. So, for instance, Melissa was on the call and we started doing called originally. It took us five weeks to get the first deal on the contract. It took us eight weeks to close the first deal, right. So let's say out of one hundred leads, we close one deal and we made seven a half thousand dollars over a five month period of follow up on them. One hundred leads. We then did one hundred and five dollars. 

Gavin: Over one hundred thousand dollars over a month one's marketing efforts. And that's how you're going to get a profitable business because everyone gets it the wrong way. They focus on leads today and just say, oh, they're not motivated, but they're not motivated now, right? No means not now. So what are they going to do in a week's time? In a month's time? In three months’ time? Because over the period of time, guess what happens? Situations change, which means motivation changes. Right. Who knew that in January of two thousand twenty that we were going to go down in March and we're going to go in a pandemic and the world was just going to go crazy. We didn't know that. Right. So anyone that you spoke to in February, if you called at the end of March, now has a completely they're in a different situation. So while the situation changes, the motivation changes, OK, and then that means to more deals for you. And this could be anything. 

Gavin: This could be, you know, lost jobs, broken legs, injuries, deaths. I mean, there's multiple things that can happen, divorces, inheritance, properties. I mean, there's so many things that can happen within the hour. Right. I did a podcast and everything can change on a dime. And that's literally anything can change any time. And you need to have these in the system to be able to make these deals up, because if you're not somebody else's and that's what you need to understand. So when these plans in place, as Joe just said, that more will kick in, that Followill will kick in, which will result in more deals, but also more profit because it goes straight to the profit, because you've already spent the time now money, obviously time is money. I understand that. But from talking from a marketing budget standpoint, here it is profit. And that's how you, Dangar, actually build a business that's successful. So some people might be one a that just wants to do one deal a year. Someone might want to do five deals a year. 

Gavin: If you want to do four or five plus a month is going to be you have to have it in the follow up. You have to have a good system to be able to do it. No, I don't know any wholesaler across the country unless you can tell me that works on their own, that doesn't have a system or a team that does any more than probably two or three full deals. You just aren't going to find it. And they and if they are doing it, they're working 70, 80 hours a week. 

Joe: Well, and this is the key to this, guys, you may look at this and think, oh man, this is overwhelming. I have to send 700 postcards a week, fifteen texts a day and make eight hours of cold calling a week. Or I got to send whatever your daily weekly numbers are. This is what we want to tell you to do. You need to get somebody else to do this for you in spite of you as soon as possible. Now, with the right systems, the right vas, that's easy. It's not that hard to do. We get Vas to do all the cold calling for us. What do we pay our VAs on average in the Philippines doing cold calling? 

Gavin: Five bucks an hour. 

Joe: Five dollars an hour. Do they have good English? 

Gavin: Yes. Put it this way. I mean they bring in, you know, for our business, they do our, they bring in the VA, bring in over half a million a year in gross profits from their cold calling on. Right. Which is insane. We're talking people that have five dollars now, but we also treat them just like the normal people, the part of the team. And if you can get them working with the right training, they can just do huge things for the business. 

Joe: Listen, and when we're talking about as well here, like texts and postcards and letters, or are we talking about like you writing these letters yourself and sticking and envelopes or handwriting envelopes and sticking stamps, are we talking about you doing postcards yourself or sending text messages yourself? Know all of this marketing guys, you need to get somebody else to do it for you. It could be a value in the cold calling. It could be just as simple as going into r.i simple my CRM and just clicking twenty-five buttons and in five seconds send twenty five text messages out of or just using one of our mail houses to send the postcards and letters for you. Let me just show you some recent campaigns that we did. One of our students, Ester in El Paso, Texas. We did a simple little follow up campaign. We sent, we imported in her old lives into areas simple and it was about one hundred old leads that we sent out a text message to. And we had sixteen respond back. And she's working on these right now. 

Joe: Thirty were dead. Stop calling me. Sixteen came back and there's about another four or five. I need to add into this for her to call that said. Yeah, you know what? I am interested. Now give me a call. I'd like to talk to you. So Esther just goes in here and she calls that and to send that text campaign out, I don't have the time to show you. But it was simply a matter of I went into these new, old leads here. I highlighted one hundred of them and I sent them a simple text that said, Hey, my name is Ester. You don't remember. We talked a little while ago about your property at X, Y, Z Street. Have you sold it yet? And in like 30 seconds I clicked because in order to stay compliant, you have to send these manually and they're personalized. We're not selling anything. We're just asking questions. We've talked to them before and we sent out one hundred texts and we got 16 that came back. 

Joe: And I know a couple of these are real close to becoming a deal. So sending text messages, even if you don't have a voice, do it. You do it yourself through something like as simple as just click, click, click, click, and it gets done. Let me show you another campaign I'm doing with my boys. I have two teenage sons and we're doing some postcards right now for vacant land in a county called Jasper County, Texas. And we sent out a simple postcard and we got a three percent response rate. I was in a mastermind the last two days with some big heavy hitters. And when I told them I got three percent response rate, they fell out of their chair. These are guys that are spending fifty to one hundred thousand dollars a month in marketing. They're used to half to one percent response rate. And with this simple post card, I'm getting a three percent response rate. We sent out 15 offers already. I have 20 that we still need to send officers to. And a couple of them are dead. We got one of them accepted and we're still doing some research to see if it's going to be a deal or not. 

Joe: But we're buying this vacant lot for about twelve thousand dollars. It's worth eighty thousand dollars. We're going to sell it for maybe twenty-five thirty. So we'll make about a fifteen thousand dollar profit on this. Vacant lot is about twenty-one acres in the middle of Jasper County. So, guys, the marketing works and did I do these, did I do these. Eleven hundred and eighty-six postcards. No, I sent them to my mail house. They sent it out and just got it done. Three percent response rate. Are you kidding me? So this marketing works and when it comes to cold calling, I mean we can show you are we use mojo cells for cold calling and it works. You get the Vas from the Philippines with good English, does the cold calling puts the leads into our CRM and then we call those leads. Stuff works. But just again, top thirty-thousand-foot view. You want to make seventy-five grand a year, you want to become stimulus and eligible. You need a marketing plan of things that you have to do every day. 

Joe: You need to know like so you can focus like a laser, not just spray and pray and hope that I'll test a thousand postcards and see if they work. I'll do a cold calling for a few hours and see if it works. I'll send twenty text messages like you need a plan every day. If I want to make this income goal become ineligible for the stimulus, I want to talk to five dollars a day or make three offers a day. I need to send seven hundred postcards a week. I need to send fifteen texts today. I need to have a VA two hours a day doing cold calls for eight hours a week. And then you put that in a scorecard. Start tracking your numbers, guys. I'm telling you over and over again, we've seen our coaching students that have had the most success or the ones that did this. They we helped them create a marketing plan and a scorecard and we held them accountable. I guess what none of them none of them met their numbers. Right. But the ones that were successful and did deals at least made the half of their numbers right. 

Joe: And at least because they started doing follow up and they started building momentum, they started doing deals. Here's the crazy thing. You don't need to meet these numbers every single day, every week to do deals. If I were to ask you the fact this is a good question, I want to ask you guys right now, how many offers have you made in the last week? Type it into Facebook or YouTube and some of you might you're going to be everybody's going to see it. But just be honest, how many offers have you made in the last week? Here's the cool thing, guys. Type it into Facebook and YouTube right now. Type it in the comments. How many offers did you make of the last week? Here's the great thing, though. This is exciting. Even if you don't make your numbers here, OK, you will still do deals. Most of you, if you're struggling, just getting started or whatever, wherever you're at, you're not making enough offers. Even if you make one or two offers a week, even if you just doubled that to two or three or four offers a week, how much more money can you do? 

Joe: Here's the point I'm trying to make and write this down. This is a writer downer. Your speed to income is directly proportional to the number of offers that you make. Your speed income is directly proportional to the number of offers that you make. So if you want to succeed in twenty, twenty one, you need to make a lot of offers. What we're talking about here, guys, is just simple, brilliant that the basic stuff you need to be brilliant at the basics, which is do the marketing, talk to sellers, make offers, that's it. And then do a follow up for things. That's all this business comes down to. 

Gavin: And that, yeah, that goes for every type of strategy across anything to do with real estate. Essential things, as Joe just said, just call them back. How is your marks and get leads coming in and you're going to number two is talk to the seller. You're going to find out a situation of motivation. You're trying to get the price, the time line and the condition. Then you're going to make offers. You're going to make maybe multiple offers, which we're going to talk about here in a minute. You can make multiple offers and then they go into a follow up sequence and this follow sequence could be followed upon. A month to get a deal, it could be two years, we still close deals that have been in the CRM for two years. So again, nothing is ever dead until they are for me is just sold. The threatening to sue you will kill you or something like that. Otherwise, no means not now. So take that away. Write it down. 

Joe: No means not now, because again, the situation can change any time I made a banner out of it just so I can make it real clear, the income is directly proportional to the number of offers that you make. And if you want to succeed in this business, rule number one is learn to be brilliant at the basics. What are brilliant at the basics? And write this down right now, marketing number one. Number two, talking to sellers. Number three, making offers. 

Joe: Number four follow up. On the banners right there. Marketing, talking to sellers, making offers and following up guys. That is the secret magic pill. And what we've said this every year since I started teaching and coaching. But this is especially important in twenty twenty one going for. All right. Another big thing that I want to talk about here is multiple offers. I need to learn how to spell multiple. Right. 

Joe: This is going to be huge for you guys in 2021. What do we mean by this? Why is it so important? Well, first of all, we recommend when you're talking to sellers, you just focus on one strategy. This is real important and maybe you can talk about this in a second here. But like, we don't we're not teaching you. We're delivering what you like, going in 20 different directions, making 20 different offers to sellers. There is a place to be a transaction engineer. We get that. But we see a lot of students struggle because they're complicating it too much. They're trying to do too much. They're not focused on the real simple, basic things. So we want to tell you guys, focus. Just if you want to do list options, just make lease options offers. If you want to do cash deals, just make cash offers. But if the seller says no, you need to learn how to make multiple offers to them. What do you mean by that? Well, we use a document called a three page. I mean a one page, three option letter of intent. It's just a simple three option letter of intent. There's different ways you can do it. What I like to do is send them a cash offer and then a lease option offer and then an older finance, for example. 

Joe: Or it could just be because I know they don't have enough equity. I might make them a lease option offer and then a seller financing. So when the seller says no, what do you most people this is guys, this is what most people do. You think you're worried about competition. This is what your competition is actually doing. When the seller says no, they're just leaving it, they're not following up and they're not sending multiple offers. So what you need to do is send a letter in the mail to the seller, say, hey, listen, thanks for talking today about your house. One, two, three, Main Street. I understand you don't want to sell it now. But listen, if circumstances change, you change your mind or something happens in the future, let me know. Attached or maybe are three different ways that we might be able to help you sell your house. Option number one, cash. And that could be just as simple as 70 percent of OK, number two is lease option. Eighty five percent is OK. And then and then the rent is seventy five percent of the market, OK. 

Joe: And then the third option could be seller finance, one hundred percent of Zillow and half of the rent principal only payments. So for example, if it's the Zillow says it's worth two hundred thousand, give the seller two hundred thousand. Let's see the market rents are fifteen hundred a month, then offer the seller seven hundred and fifty dollars a month. Principal only payments. How long does that just take me to come up with right there. Like one or two minutes. Yeah. So send them multiple offers and then this is the key guys. Send them that same thing every three days, send them an offer in the mail, follow up with a text message and email a voice message, phone call, a letter postcard every month. Send them that same offer again, because now you're getting your foot in the door and you're just following up because a lot of times to these multiple offers help position. So, you know, they can't take the cash offer because it's so low of this loan. You make a higher financing lease option offer. That cash offer just helps you position your other offers, make them look more attractive. Gavin, I've got to step aside real quick. You just talk about the importance of making multiple offers in the power of also focusing on. I'll be right back. 

Gavin: And yes, OK, guys, I actually just did a video I think is going to be going live today, actually on multiple offers. If you go to my YouTube channel, I network with Gavin Timms, you can check that out. Don't go right in that right now, but make sure you write that down. I might drop it in the link. Actually, I find this video and put it in there, but you'll see how to position the multiple office that position. But I have to actually make the multiple offers are going to work the best for you. So as much as I would say is a cold lead, someone is not really interested. Whatever, just send me something. They're not really giving you zero motivation. You might want to send them three offers. You might want to send in the cash. The sandwich. Lisa, the assignment leaves option use usually allowed three minutes. Get it. And it's done OK, but let's say, as Joe said, the way that you position them offers, they will make things look better. 

Gavin: So give me an example. Let's say that I go in in my head, I'm asking questions. The salary is already down about cash. It comes out with something like, oh, you're an investor, you're going to lowball me. I'm not giving my house away, things like that. Now I need to pivot quickly to getting back on board and kind of agree with him and short that offer down. So now when I'm coming in with is more now in my head. This is some at in the assignment lease option. So what I would say in that scenario. So again, I say, hey, guys, I'm a real that's whatever the conversation goes. They said, oh, you're an investor, you're going to lowball me, blah, blah, blah, attached. I'm on the line, Mr. Salvado, make cash offers. But let me ask you this. If I could get you more money, would you be interested in renting it to me for a year or two? First, I could interject with that. Let's say that then that he's interested in that gives me some positive feedback. I now know that the cash offer isn't going to work. He gets very upset about it. 

Gavin: But I'm going to come in at the sandwich lease options. I want to make two offers based on this scenario. The other thing is that I will tell him asylum is that I'm going to leave the cash offer. From that, I understand you can just ignore it. I know you don't want to do that, but I really want you to look at the second option that I'm going to send you. What I'm doing that from a visual is that I've got the cash offer down, so it makes my sandwich lease option offer look much better because it's a higher amount. Right. So let's say it's worth two hundred thousand. I'm going to say one hundred seventy-five thousand for sandwich lease option in three years. And I want to pay Montane in cash. So I've got the one ten as a visual on the paper with my offer at one seventy five. So what's going to happen is he's going to automatically attract to that one seven five amount, but it got all he wanted to give me this, this offer, it makes it look better. 

Gavin: But I position it on the phone, because he's upset in this scenario, is upset about the cash offer. I'm going to tell him that it is going to be on that because, again, it helps the position make sense. Now, what happens is in this scenario, if I've got him, where he is now is entertaining about his rent. He wants to know more about it. I'm going to make them to offer some is lease option offer. We got back on the phone to the schools and all of a sudden it doesn't work. And I need to know why. What? I want more money. I like the idea of it. I like the concept of it, but I need more money. OK, so this is now where I give myself a gap to now transition into the assignment lease option because it's not on the paper. So this is when you learn how to position these offers. Right. So I've made an offer one seven, five and three is I'm not going to give all the other stuff on a visual and I'm a one-time cash, not from the cash going to one seven five. Now I'll hold these highlights. The concept bought. He wants more money. So this is not while I'm on the phone, I'm now going to slide into a transition into the assignment lease option by one question. 

Gavin: So I say, OK, it's a start. If I could get you more money and more money and rent, whatever his objection is, what would you want to do then? And if the answer is, well, I do it well now I've just got myself an assignment lease option, OK? Because the objection was just the price. So I can go, OK, well, look, I might be able to get you on nine five. I'm now going negative. I don't know if this is going to work. I'm willing to try it. Look, just so you know, I'm not going to be in the middle of this deal. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm here to make some money. I was going to make some equity on the back. And I'm just I'm just not going to work for you. If I can get you in this one nine five that you want, then what would you want to do? He says, yes, I get the assignment now signed and then I go on. Now, why am I explaining that? Because if I have a motivated seller that is potentially going to do that and he does want me in the middle and I put that one nine, five or two hundred on the page, I've now made my job a lot harder, OK, because now I've got nowhere to go. I've got nothing to negotiate with. 

Gavin: But the difference is that he was motivated. If he says to me, whatever, and I'm just going to sit on it for ten years until it settles, I'm just going to send all three and it's going to take me three minutes. Right. But as you get into this, I'll learn the art of selling the conversations and understanding what people need. That position is going to be huge. OK, so hopefully that helps. 

Joe: Excellent. Somebody was just asking. Allen. Proportion banner back up the screenshots. Here it is. Your speed income is directly proportional to the number of offers that you make. So that's why they get multiple offers is so important. Thanks for sharing that. So we're talking about the brilliant at the basic stuff, right? We're talking about you've got to be good at this stuff, marketing, talking to stars, making offers and following up. The other thing that I just want to stress again that we're talking about is always asking who not how. Because if you start asking how you just go down this deep rabbit trail of all these fancy complicated systems and tools and strategies, again, if you feel like you have to know how to do everything, you'll never get started. Right? So you need to set ask, who can I get to do this for me? Can I get to do all of this for me? Now, there's certain phases where you outsource things like we would say probably the last thing you outsource is talking to make it official. You need to be doing that yourself until you get growing in the business. You start learning how to do deals and then you can start hiring acquisition managers. So that's the key to this. 

Joe: The other big key is, again, we've been talking about the follow up. And I just want to talk about for a minute here, if you want to succeed in 2021, do a lot of deals. You need to know the follow up. And there are a lot of different ways you can do follow. Once you make the multiple offers, you follow up with continuing making offers over and over again every 30 days. But there's texting, there's phone calls, there's emails, there's letters. I found the best form of follow up is direct mail, because that is something that sellers get. They open. They look at I just got to the post office, the UPS store today, and I had every time I send direct mail that I get a bunch of it back, you know, and I got some direct mail back because the address was wrong. And I know what's in the letters, but I still open them because I want to see it. I want to see what's in the letter. So Sellers read your letters. Sometimes they'll when you get a call they'll ignore it because they don't recognize the number. When you send a text they'll like, I'll look at that later. They'll delete it or the carriers will block it. 

Joe: But when you send direct mail, it's like, oh, I just see what this is. They'll open. They may open it over the circular file, the trash can, but at least they're going to look at it. So the direct mail is very important when it comes to follow up, like an email that's going to get lost. It's going to go into spam. They may see it and say, oh, I'll look at it later. This is why, again, when it comes to sending offers to sellers of you shouldn't just email them and you should send it the physical mail because then they open, they look at it and they're like, you know, I might they might put it in the in the junk drawer to look at later. I remember one time when I was first getting started. One of my good friends was telling me the story and it really stuck with me because I thought this is the power of sending written offers to sellers. What we're talking about is not leaving one lead left behind, no lead left behind. But anyway, what happened was you sent an offer to a seller and said to her, mamma's nice talking to you today about your house. This I understand you don't want to sell right now, but if circumstances change, please keep this attached. This letter for future reference. 

Joe: We attached an offer to the letter, but he sent it in the physical mail. It was an elderly lady and she kept this letter. She kept it cause the guy said, keep it. To some people. You just have to tell them that. Keep this letter for future reference. She kept it in the files about two or three years later, he got a phone call and they said, this is so-and-so from the estate of so-and-so. And are you still interested in buying our house? And he's like, well, I don't remember what house you're talking about. And they gave him the address. And this was a friend of mine named Steve. And he pretended to remember. Oh, yeah, that's right. Remind me again, though. Anyway, they were going the lady died as they were going through her. She had a folder for a house, important house stuff, and they found his letter in the house folder and they called them up and said, would you still be interested in buying the house? And he did. He went and made an offer and made a lot of money. I think he rehabbed. It was a big rehab. But here's the point. 

Joe: When you do your follow up, always, always send something in writing in the physical mail. It still works, works really, really well. Don't think you have to handwrite these things yourself. I use email to mail, click to mail a lot so I can create the letter and arias and email it to click to mail, click to mail, will print it and send it in the physical mail to the seller whose address is in the subject line of the email once a month. Take all of your old leads, download all of the addresses and send the seller a simple letter, a postcard. Hey, it was great talking to you the other day. You probably don't remember me. Have you sold your house yet? Are you still interested in selling? OK, we're getting some comments now. I'm going to look at them. Don't forget guys type keep on typing in your questions. One of our friends and clients, Chris Arnold, said that literally just happened to me. That crazy about my offer in their father's desk. I love it, Chris. 

Gavin: Also, we just did a we just did a case study actually on no dead leads. We I used to work Chris's market and we were both virtual, two years old. It's called NoDeadLeads.com. And we just went through. We're actually working and there's one hundred and thirty-four leads. We'd already done a deal originally, so we started calling and texting everyone, just like Joe said with HESTA. And we've got about twenty-one leads that we're working right now. So it's kind of an active case study to see after two years, can we go and still do a deal so that I do recognize this guy Gavin. Yes, that's why I old too. I see you've got me started on once you tell the story. Long conversation with this guy on the screen in a coffee shop. Let me hear how insane is that. So. And where was that guy? Because your nose hurts. Yeah. So I was visiting I was living in the United States, visiting back in the UK with my parents, my wife. And we went down to save lives in Cornwall and it was about nine o'clock and it was like a coffee shop where I garden. Well, nobody. No. That is Cornwall, south England, like towards Land's End. 

Gavin: Right, so the south and we were on vacation that my parents for a week and he was there for a wedding. And we happened to be sitting next to him and his wife and another couple in a coffee shop kind of wine ball was stuck as the conversation literally was. My wife thought he was from South Africa, he's actually from Ireland. And I interrupted it because she was right. She's having none of it. So we started having a conversation. And from that I got into real estate. I mean, it was it was insane. So, yeah, I'm not going over the full story, but that's kind of what happened. And he said to me, I see I see property. What did he say? He said, I see you said I'm a property investor, but I don't see houses. And I was like, well, that makes no sense. And then he started saying, well, you be good at it. You should look at it. And I'm like, well, I'm a golf professional. I don't know anything about houses. And this conversation happening now, I'm in real estate. I mean, it was literally as crazy as that. 

Joe: And that's awesome because I met Ian when I was doing a workshop in Spain. We did two or three of those workshops in Spain. And that's how I met Gavin and crazy. We've been working together for five years and I've found. OK, so guys, you're typing in some good questions. Marland, answer ask the question here. We'll get to that in a minute. Tony asked a question here. Could you go after the three offered formula? Kinjo Yes, we will do that. I just want to talk about a few more other things real quick here that we're seeing is important. In addition to the follow up, virtual deals, small towns related to what Gavin was just saying. And here he is in England, met a guy named Ian who's in England doing deals virtually without seeing them, especially now. Guys, listen, I was in a mastermind all day yesterday and Monday. For the last two days. High level guys doing a lot of deals, spending fifty to one hundred grand a month on marketing and paying sixty-five dollars per year just to get a click from a Google. And that's not even a lead. That's a click. Which is crazy expensive. Right? 

Joe: Well, anyway, and they're all saying the same thing. And these guys are in big, expensive, competitive markets. And it's like we you can do deals in competitive markets. You've just got to be prepared to spend a lot more money. But the profits are a lot bigger as well. So there's a lot of good things about that. But they're all saying the same thing. It's getting harder and harder to do deals in these big competitive markets and especially, I mean, the deals that they were closing in December because December is November. December were big months. Those were from deals that they got under contract in September and October. A lot of people said the same thing. We're starting to see a slowdown in November and December, slowdown in the leads coming in, probably because of the election and the uncertainty and all the crazy things that have been going on lately. But here's the thing, guys. You need to start looking at doing deals virtually in small towns. There is so much opportunity and very little to no competition in small towns. 

Joe: And I say this all the time. In fact, maybe I should just show you an example. Let's go to a Redfin and Zillow somebody type into the comments on YouTube or Facebook right now. A market or a city or a market or I'm going to pick one of the first ones that I see here, type it into YouTube or Facebook, a city or a market that's going to pull up some stuff inside of Zillow and Redfin. And I want to show you what I mean by virtual deals, small towns. I mean, you're just getting started. Do you think that you have to go see the house, you have to go visit the seller and walk to the house? It's how do you do virtual deals that sounds too hard or complicated or scary to do. Lake Charles, Lake City, Florida. Let's do Lake City, Florida. This is from Larry. I don't know where Lake City, Florida is, but let me share my screen here, Lake City, Florida, from Zillow. 

Joe: And let me do one other thing here in Lake City, Florida is not available yet in Redfin. Let me open up a map here of counties and you know. So let's look here. This is a small little town. I guess I should have been more specific. Give me a big town. In fact, let me I want to do what I want to do. A big city where a lot of people live. You may live in Lake City, Florida. I don't know where that is. That's in the sticks. Let me look one more time at the towns that Sarasota, Florida. All right, Patricia, we're going to look at Sarasota, Florida, and let me clear the banners here so you can see my screen better. 

Joe: Sarasota, Florida. Sarasota, Florida. OK, I'm going to share my screen again here. So here's Sarasota, Florida. I'm going to also look it up here. Sarasota, Florida is not a huge market, but it's the Tampa St. Pete area. All right. First of all, you think the Tampa St. Pete, Sarasota, Florida, is competitive and there's no deals there. And you might be right if I look at red and I'm just going to zoom out a little bit. So Sarasota's down here. Here's Tampa, St. Pete right here. 

Joe: And I'm looking let me just do a draw. I'm going to draw here so I don't get our. And I'm going to draw that area of Florida and there are some as it opens up twenty-five thousand homes. Let me show you something. Let me go to more filters. Let's look at just houses. Let's not do the real high, expensive homes. Let's look at homes under five hundred thousand dollars. And we don't do the cheap shacks either. Let's do one hundred to five hundred thousand dollars time on Redfin, more than 60 days. But one more thing. Let's remove new construction so there has to be built before twenty eighteen filters. 

Joe: There are fifteen hundred and twelve homes here year maybe in Sarasota which is right there. But if you just zoomed out to the total Tampa St. Pete area, there are fifteen hundred homes priced between one hundred to five hundred thousand dollars right now that have been on the market over 60 days. That is not new construction. How about over 90 days? Because everybody says all the market so hot, all you got to do is to sign in the yard and you're going to get hundreds of offers over asking price. Well, OK, maybe if that's the case, why are there nine hundred and thirty-six homes for sale that have been on the market over 90 days in this area? Now, if you were just in the Sarasota area, there's only like thirty-six homes there. As you start zooming out, you're going to find a lot more. So again, look at this. Nine hundred and thirty-six homes. 

Joe: I know it may be hard to see because it's kind of small there. Nine hundred and thirty-six homes. What if you remove the outline.? Seventeen hundred and twenty homes. Let's zoom out again now. We're looking in Miami Beach, Daytona, Orlando. Thirty-nine hundred homes in the sweet spot price range. Been on the market over 90 days. You guys, I've done this many different markets and have tested the sending letters to older listings saying, hey, if I could buy your house on La Hoya Drive in Claremont, Florida, which is near Orlando, it looks like for full price, would you consider may be doing a lease purchase or owner financing? I get responses from that, and I'm not sending it to the realtor. I'm sending it to the owner of this house. And guess what? A lot of these houses are vacant. 

Joe: A lot of these houses are vacant. And you come to them and say, hey, I might be able to get you what you're looking for. If you would be willing to do seller financing or at least purchase. I get a lot of deals. So I just wanted to show you, like your little Sarasota and you only have one hundred and twenty six homes zoom out because there's so much opportunity here. You could even zoom out again and you could say, well, let's just look at the Jacksonville area. There's two hundred thirty-eight homes there. So maybe one week you go after the Jacksonville, Florida homes and next week you go after the homes around Orlando. The next week you go around the homes, look for the homes of the Tampa St. Pete area. Let's go here to Florida real quick. And let's say we're doing the for sale by owner method where we're just looking for boats. 

Joe: There's none in Sarasota, Florida. If I'm doing this right. There's no fish bones. Sarasota, Florida. Oh, right here. There's one hundred and seventy-four. I always forget this is a new thing and a vacation and no one. You're freaking out because if you're here looking for sale by owner, you're going to see zero listings with zero agent when you click on other listings. There you go. And again, let's remove the real superhigh expensive homes. There's one hundred and twenty-seven books. Now, if I'm just in Sarasota, there's forty. Well, let's remove boundary now. There's one hundred and twenty-seven. All right. And this is just houses only. I'm not even looking at condos or townhomes. Guess what? It would take me a couple of days to market to all of those business. I need more leads than that. Well, zoom out now. There's two hundred thirty-seven. So right there. Let's zoom out again now there's seven hundred and seventy-eight. But still that might only last me a couple of weeks. Let's zoom out again. Holy smokes, Florida, look at this. 

Joe: Eighteen hundred for sale by owners. But let's say you still you go through that and you're through all of that within a couple of weeks. Let's look at the entire state of Florida. Twenty-two hundred and let's say next month. The next week we go after Georgia. There's eight hundred and seventy six is those in Georgia. How about South Carolina. Four hundred and fifty six next week. Let's go after North Carolina for six hundred and eighty-five votes. And what if let's go back to Florida here. Two hundred and ten. A twenty-two, one hundred and ten fizbo right now. But let's say I like targeting rentals, I like targeting rentals because these are properties that are these are good homes to lease purchase. And I'm looking for homes between a thousand and twenty four hundred a month. And I only want nice homes to lease purchase. So I'll be three plus bedrooms, houses only, no condos or apartments or town. And if I go to Sarasota, only forty properties there that meet the criteria. Well let me remove boundary that is one hundred and fifty. Zoom out now there's three hundred and fifty. Zoom out again. Fifteen hundred. Zoom out again. This looks like a condo or let's say a thousand dollars. Crappy junk house right to twelve hundred thirty-one hundred. Let me zoom out again. 

Joe: Four thousand. Let's just look at Florida. Only thirty-nine hundred and let's look at Georgia. Nineteen hundred. Let's look at Alabama. Have forty-seven. But Mississippi is it MS or MI? SC is South Carolina, five hundred fifty-six, here's the thing, guys. I'm trying to say there is so much opportunity outside of your backyard. So one week go after Florida, the next week go after Alabama, the next one Georgia, the next one, South Carolina, and then rotate back Florida, Alabama, Georgia. Guys, if you just picked three different markets and don't be afraid of the small towns, you can crush it. You can do a lot of deals. All right. 

Joe: Let me show you one other thing I like to look at. If I am this website called World Population Review, Dotcom/states. WorldPopulationReview.com/states. And what I like about this is I can pick a state like Florida. I can scroll down here. And this is a Florida population density by county. You can see this is Sarasota County. The population density is pretty big, but look at the growth. The growth is right here in this area right here. The growth in Sarasota County is 16 percent, but housing prices there are probably pretty expensive. What about this county right here, DeSoto, there's only thirty eight thousand. Look at their growth, 10 and a half percent in the last 10 years. What about this county, Highlands County? They have over one hundred and seven thousand people there. They're still growing nine percent about this county down here in Collier County. Here's the thing I want to say, guys, if you're just going after Sarasota County, you're going to struggle. If you're going after Pinellas County in Hillsborough County, there's tons of competition there. Start looking out in other counties, Charlotte County, Highlands County, DeSoto Hardy Glades, Hendry, Collier, like what is this? What this county right here, Highlands County, West, look. So I'm going to go to PropStreamJoe.com. PropStreamJoe.com. And let's say I wanted to do a cold call campaign in Highlands County. How much how much competition do you think is going on there right now in Highlands County? Let's look at Highlands County, Florida. What is there? How much? A couple of small towns and some lakes. Highlands County, Florida. 

Joe: There's one hundred and thirteen thousand properties there. Let's go right here to absentee owner. Let's do single families only and let's do high equity. And they have had to have owned it for at least five years. Look at that, guys. There's fifty-four hundred absentee owners. Let's do ten years. There are thirty-six hundred absentee owners that own single family homes that have fifty percent equity or more in a single family home. Say, yeah, great. But are any investors even buying properties out there? Well, let's look let's see how many investors have bought a property there in the last year and let's do corporate only so. Right. So this is corporate only, single family. They've owned it less than a year. So it's there you go. So here are five hundred and thirty different properties that have been purchased by an absentee owner. We could even go as far as, say, the owner is out of state. And let's do as a matter or I look at this and let's exclude interfamily transfers and excludes divorces and let's exclude those rates on those. 

Joe: So in the last year, there's one hundred and seventy four different absentee owners from outside of Florida, one hundred seventy four different properties that have been purchased by investors outside of Florida in Highlands County. All right. So if you get one of these properties under contract, you can skip trace calls and letters to these owners and say, hey, are you looking for another property in the area? Look, these are investment properties or does that make sense? That I'm saying just real quick, I showed you, if you're going to go after if you lived in Sarasota, Florida, look at Highlands County, a list of five thousand absentee owners that have owned their house over five years or ten years that have at least 50 percent equity. Skip trace, that list. Cold call them, get some deals under contract and sell it to these people right here. That makes sense. This investor on Cornell, someone who bought it from New Mexico. Alan Mitchell bought this property in Las Cruces, New Mexico. All right. So anyway, I think you guys get the point of what I'm saying. Are there any questions of what I just kind of showed you there? Any questions here? What was the population density website? Again, it's called Worldpopulationreview.com.

Joe: Yeah, OK, I'm going to put that in here is a banner. WorldPopulationReview.com. That come back to me. You want to look for counties that have maybe at least one hundred thousand people but still have positive growth. But I encourage you to look at the counties, one or two or three outside of where you are. There's just so much opportunity there. All right. Thank you, Patricia. Good stuff, Wayne. You're dropping gems all over the place. Come on. Let's go into some questions here. Anything else we want to talk about real quick? Virtual deals in small towns. Ask not how follow up is important for speed. Income is directly proportional to the number of offers that make learned to make multiple offers. Be brilliant at the basics. What are those marketing? Talking to sellers, making offers and follow up. OK, so yes, this is being recorded. In fact, it's on YouTube right now. So if you're watching this, you can always go back and watch the. To replace a world population, what dot com, it's a world population review, that world population review. All right. So let's go through some questions if you have questions here, guys. Oh, yeah. I want to say something else real quick. If you are interested in getting our help with setting the stuff up. I have a website here for you. I'm going to give it to you, REINetwork.com/systems, if you want our help in getting these systems set up, getting help with a marketing plan, getting help with figuring out your scorecards and accountability to hold you accountable to that scorecard, to help with getting the virtual assistance systems, the marketing, pulling the list, skip tracing it, doing the direct mail, cold calling, whatever the marketing is that will help you figure out. 

Joe: If you go to REINetwork.com/systems, there's a page there, explains a little bit about it. Tell us a little bit about you, who you are, and you'll get on the phone with either Gavin or someone from our team and we'll talk to you about your goals, where you are now, where you want to be. If we feel like we're a good fit and we have one or two different programs, we'll talk to you about it and see if you're a good fit. We can maybe help. So go to REINetworkc.om/systems. All right. Some questions here. A lot of good thank you's. We appreciate that. If you're on Facebook, YouTube, type in your questions in here. This one's from Marland. When talking about marketing to FSBOs or any campaign, are you saying that the process is basically to keep getting new scraped leads daily? And do these include you include your follow up to leads you have recently sent marketing to? 

Joe: OK, so when we're talking about sending marketing to FSBOs and rentals. We recommend scraping them weekly. There's companies that I recommend in my courses and stuff. I don't give those resources away for free here in our free coaching calls because like, it's kind of too valuable to give away for free like that. But there is a company that I use. They scrape Zillow and Craigslist. They can scrape Redfin for you every single week, give you that. So we just send them a text message. Sometimes we send the owners a letter and we just ask them, hey, we saw your rental on Zillow. Would you be interested in selling? Patricia's asking how do we do this from Kansas City? But just like we showed, you can kind of pick some areas with very patrician. I'm very familiar with Kansas City. In fact I'm going there this weekend to visit some family and daughter has a gymnastics tournament in Kansas. 

Joe: But anyway, kind of like Kansas City is kind of competitive, not that crazy compared to other cities. I would find out where the investor activity is. And then I would also start looking in the counties surrounding Kansas City, specifically on the Missouri side. It's a little easier to get data on the Missouri side, on the Kansas side. But it's consistent. It's the basic stuff, right? It's the basic things. We talked about marketing, talked to sellers, making offers and follow up. Just keep on doing that over and over again. What's the difference between lease options and owner finance? Diana secluding. So basically lease options is where you control property without owning. Owner financing is where you control property and own its owner financing. 

Joe: You actually take the deed to the property you own it. And the bank, I mean, the seller acts. Is the bank a lease option? I don't own the property and just controlling through a lease on an option. I'm going to lease the property from the seller for a couple of years, three, four, five years with the option to buy it in the future. That's the difference between those two and an owner financing deal. The seller is pretty much acting as the bank owner financing. Good question from Willy. This seller asked me if you can't buy my house now with an interest rate at all time lows, how are you going to be able to buy it in two years? Now with this lease option, how would you respond? I always tell sellers, Willy, I can buy your house now. In fact, if you would like a cash offer, I'll go ahead and send you a cash offer, but it's probably going to be pretty ridiculously low. We buy our properties usually at 60, 70 cents on the dollar. It's not going to work for everybody. I can certainly buy it now. 

Joe: In fact, I can close on in a week if it works for us. Let me ask you some questions. How long have you had it on the market or have you thought about just why don't you just sell it with a realtor? So I turn it around and ask another question. I always ask the sellers, why don't you just list your house with a realtor and see what they say? This is why I like making cash offers with my lease option, because I can tell them I will buy it with cash, but it's going to be at this ridiculously low price. And that reminds me somebody else was asking a really good question. I'll get to it later. You want to add anything to that, Gavin? 

Gavin: Yeah. So obviously they think that you're living in the house. That's a problem. Yeah, the concept is, is that they think you can't do that. So you're using the cash offer to say that you can buy it as Joe just said, which is then going to open up for like. So are you living in the house? So you just got to get to the point that you're not. This is investment property for you to rent for a year or two and then selling. Then when they say are you living in it? No, I'm not. It's an investment property, but I can give you more money. If you're willing to wait for it. Or we can cash you out, no problem. Then you go into it. It's going to be less, you're not going to accept it. I normally don't bring it up. So I want to upset you by offering you a low, this is a beautiful house and you kind of play on that. And then normally that's enough to then move on and then ask another question. I always ask a question back. Right. You always want to gain control. The conversation comes. 

Joe: We spend a lot of time working with our students and clients on that. Learning how to talk to sellers, supercritical. Theresa has a question here. Do you get local phone numbers and websites when working in another virtual market? Yeah. So every campaign we do in our multiple markets, we get virtual phone numbers for. So, like, if I'm doing Sarasota, Florida market or South Florida market, I might have six or seven different phone numbers for that. 

Joe: And I simply it's only four bucks a month phone number, but I'll have a phone number for my letters and other phone numbers from my postcards. That way I can track where the leads are coming from. And that's really easy to do inside of our house. Now, when it comes to websites, I, I probably wouldn't worry about getting a different website for each market. I would just have one website who has three. So I would probably have something like Theresa buys houses dot come is what my website would be. OK, yeah, this is real good. Mike says, as we put at the bottom footer of postcards and letters. If you are not interested in selling now, please keep this with your house papers for future reference. Really good. Larry is saying how can you position your offers as a Realtor? Are you saying like you are a realtor and you want to present your offers? Not sure what you mean by that or if the offer is presenting the offer to a realtor anyway. 

Joe: If you're a realtor, you have to disclose that you're an agent always. So you'll say, listen, I am a realtor, but I'm not looking for a listing. I'm looking to buy a house right now. And in fact, I don't want to list your house. If you want to list your house, I can refer you to some other agents. I'm an investor. I'm looking to buy some more properties in the area. And one of the other questions I'd like to ask is, was I'm talking to the sellers. Listen, have you thought about this? Like, if you don't sell your house, what are you going to do? Are you going to list it or rent it out? If you don't sell your house, what are you going to do? You're going to rent it, if we can. To another similar question from Martland. I'm a realtor in Kansas City. I'm looking to connect with another realtor leasing agent to do the marketing. Joe, do you co-list or just turn it over to the leasing agent? So when it comes to list to lease options, I just hire a leasing agent to find me a tenant buyer. It doesn't matter if you belong to the same brokerage or not. A question from Tony. Could you go over the three offer formula again, Joe? 

Joe: Yes, real simple. For a cash offer. It's the ARV times. Let's just keep it super simple. Cash offer is Zillow times, 70 percent. Zillow times. In fact, maybe I should write this down here. I will do this in the bonus cash off Zillow times. I'm 70 percent shopper zero times 70 percent. And then a lease option is zero times eighty five percent. So that's the price is zero times eighty five percent is the price. Then the Zillow rent is seventy five percent rent for the rent. It's Zillow rent time. Seventy five percent and the term is usually three to five years. For owner financing it's going to be Zillow times one hundred percent. I'm going to offer them owner financing, I'm going to offer them one hundred percent of Zillow, then owner financing would be the Zillow rent times 50 percent for the, writing this down.

Joe: OK, so let me run through this again. For owner financing, it's zillow rent times 50 percent. I'm going to offer them half of the rent or principal only payments. So my cash offer, No one is going to be zero times seventy percent. Just like these are again, real simple fast offers that we're sending out. Not written in stone. Once we say yes, then we'll do our due diligence, may have to lower this based on what the repairs are and stuff like that. For lease option it's going to be zero times eighty five percent of my price. And for the rent, it's going to be Zillow rent times seventy five percent. So I want at least 15 percent equity in the house, at least twenty five percent of the rent for cash flow, three to five years. And owner financing is going to be one hundred percent of Zillow. But the rents are going to be my payment. Rather not rent a payment to the seller is going to be about fifty percent of the Zillow. Principal only payments and that's going to be until paid. 

Joe: That's all negotiable. You could be balloon in ten years if we wanted. They wanted a balloon in ten years or five years, I might do 30 percent of 40 percent. So the point is this is just keep it super, give the seller's options and it's all contingent on inspection as you do your inspection. That's when you dove deeper into the not the Zillow estimate value, but the ARV's. What you feel the comps really are at this calculation follows the offer calculation spreadsheet. Yes, Alton. That's real similar if you have any of my spreadsheets from any of my courses, that kind of thing, on a emailed email blast, cash buyers asking for the best and final offer. After you accept an offer, you emailed them all back and tell them the amount of that offer you accepted. What you talk about your philosophy here a little bit for me, when I sell the deal to the first cash buyer, he gives me a serious. What do you do? You do a farm or what? What's the phrase? 

Gavin: We don't blast them. We don't blast deals out. We do a couple of different things. Sometimes we have organized who buys where. Which buyers. So we kind of have to buy as well. If it comes in an area, we know that the buyers are going to buy it and we normally opt in to that if if we need close it fast or if we have time and we know it's going to be a good area, then we're going to chop it through multiple people and try and get them into kind of a bidding war. But we hold that in the right way. We just try to tell them, find the best and then we try to take the biggest offer. So it all comes down to time. If we have the time, it's in a good area. We already know if it's a good deal and how much traction it's going to get. So the more traction that going to get, it's going to be final invest and we're going to try and bid as high as we can. Or if we know, like, all right, we should make ten thousand. Let's just take it and get it close as fast as we can. Then we'll go with the most reliable buyer that can kind of just write a check list that says, no, we don't do bidding wars. 

Joe: We accept an offer with a buyer. We close with that buyer. Reputation is paramount. We only do that if we position that upfront. 

Gavin: So we just did one. We got more money. But everyone knows the deal. So as long as you position, that's what's happening, right. There's nothing worse than get into a bit. If you say fine, invest and then you try and bid them up because now they're going to get upset if you just say we have multiple people interested. Right. So we'll let you know back and forth who's going to pay the most and then we'll get them into a bidding war. They know what's going on. 

Joe: Melisa said we just bid up a property, OK? We made an extra eight thousand because I could I positioned it that way up front and so on. 

Gavin: And some aren't worth doing that. It's  only because of the location. And it's a good house and a good area. So we're able to do that, otherwise it's just not going to be able to get it. 

Joe: D has a good question here. What's your opinion of the Cleveland, Ohio market? Wanna answer that, Gavin? 

Gavin: Yes, Cleveland is obviously a very active market for Ohio. And I would look at the states sorry, not the states, the counties probably around Cleveland, unless you're settled with somebody that you're going in that virtual or you live there. So if you're going to be right in in that county of Cleveland, you just need to know what to expect, which is obviously competition, which I'm fine about competition for you as a new investor need to understand what it's going to take to get deals done. 

Gavin: If you go outside of the counties, you're going to do deals faster by by doing that. I do like the market. I'm not going to lie. It's nothing like a Phenix or New York or anything like that. But you have got to be about the process. We've talked a lot about market and to get leads and we have talked about follow up. The whole process is the important thing to get deals done, especially in the competitive market. 

Joe: Yeah. Let me just share my screen with you guys. Let's look at Ohio real quick. This is, again, World Population Review that I think Cleveland is Cuyahoga County or something like that. Right. You can see the population density. It's a very populous county. Look at the population growth. The number that's right here. When I highlighted over, it's down three point nine percent. But look at this. Madina County is up four point six. This county, Lorraine, is up three point three. This one is down Suffolk County. OK, but what I'm looking at is what are those counties outside one or two counties away? All right. What about this one here? Like this one county has over one hundred thousand people growth six five percent. How about Wayne County under fifteen thousand people still growing. It doesn't have to be a positive number. But what about Erie County? Maybe, maybe not. But I'm looking for Stark County. A lot of people still Mahoning County. 

Joe: These are like there's not as much competition, but still a lot of people out here you scroll up to you can also go to population growth rate. So I guess red is good and blue is bad. Right. So here this is Cuyahoga County. This county is growing. This one is growing. This one is growing. This one is growing. So look at some of these counties here, Licking County. Maybe that's a good county to look at. Probably these counties that are really shrinking may not be good counties to go into. But if you're in Cleveland, Ohio, look at some of these oranges and yellows are outside of there, less competition. They're still investors that are buying homes there. Which you can wholesale.

Gavin: I will tell people as well that going outside the counties doesn't always work in every market for Alabama, for instance, like it goes rural too fast, so it doesn't work. I just know Cleveland because I've done some stuff that and I know them counties are still populated enough for that to work, just like Charleston or Phenix surrounding ones that are all going to work. 

Gavin: If you go to like Mississippi, Jackson, Mississippi, when you got one county over, it's just land. There's nothing there. So you have to look at the colors, like when you start with a real dark red and then when the red goes like just a normal red light, all names are in. That's probably like a good color to kind of be in. 

Joe: Let me show you, I just picked a new county in Texas to market to for land or show you what I did with the land. I went to land watch dot com. And I just wanted to find a good county that people are going to go to like this in Texas to go camping, to go hunting right there. Four wheelers get off the grid, a place that, if they're proper, is to go hide their guns when the government comes to. Socialist, communist come to take over everything, right, so you can go to Texas like this land watch and I am looking for the cheaper property, so I'm going to say homes vacant, lots that are priced under one hundred thousand dollars. 

Joe: And that's the filters applying there. And I'm also going to I only want properties that are between five acres and fifty-eight or five to fifty acres. And then look at this. You can see the most popular regions. These are Liston's or the Piney Woods north region, the Trans-Pecos region. But that's desert. I don't know if somebody who is in the Dallas, Austin, Houston, are they going to drive all the way out here to go on for vacation or they go hunting? They're probably going to go in the piney woods north or the northeast region or the piney woods south region to hunt or to camp or whatever. So then I click on here the Piney Woods North region. Now I'm looking at, OK, there's two hundred twenty-seven listings here. Henderson County has the most, Harrison County has the second most Shelby coaches or whatever. And so what I'm doing here is if I looked at Henderson County, this is my competition. If I take this price low to high, there's somebody selling a five-point seven-acre lot for 40 grand. Five acres for forty-one five acres. Forty-eight. This is a nice area, right? Wooded areas. People may buy this from lumber, timber just to go for willing to build cabins, get off the grid type of thing.

Joe: So I'm looking at this thing and this might be a county where I can buy this property. Let's say I show you an example. I know you can see this, but if it's if they're selling for thirty nine, nine hundred divided by five point seven to so they're selling these lots are selling for an average of seven thousand dollars per acre. I'm going to offer that times point to five. I'm going to offer seventeen hundred dollars per acre. So they're selling right now for seven thousand dollars and I'm going to offer seventeen hundred dollars. So if I find a seven acre lot I'm going to take seventeen hundred dollars times seven. I'm going to offer twelve thousand dollars for that seven-acre lot and I'm going to turn around and sell it for thirty thousand. So when I sell that vacant lot out here in Henderson County, when that buyer comes here and sorts it from low to high, they're going to see my seven acre lot cheaper than everybody else. They're going to buy mine. I'm going to make it eighteen thousand dollars profit on that vacant lot. Now we're seeing on average, about one out of every twenty-five offers accepted for a vacant land. We're making offers of twenty-five cents on the dollar. I wanted to I can sell them. We're financing this guy here. This guy is selling this vacant lot for forty-one thousand eight hundred seventy-two dollars, and that's pretty high. I'd probably be more like three or four hundred dollars. 

Gavin: OK, so I was on mute. That's so good. 

Joe: Are you familiar with call tools? Yes, we've used it before. Alton we like mojo sales. They both work. We just are most familiar with the mojo. So this is important. We were talking about buyers a minute ago. Melissa says my buyers come to me first because they know I treat them right. I do it right. Relationships, it is all about relationships. Good question, Aaron. What's the best situation for an offer for owner seller finance? There's a lot of sellers out there that want to sell but don't have to. And especially if they're older and if they sell their house, they're going to have to pay a lot of taxes, capital gains taxes. So if you offer them owner finance and they don't get all their cash now, plus, what are they going to do with it, right. To sit in a CD or money market account or something like that and give them one or two percent? And if they sell it for cash or if they sell it to the MLS, going to have to pay. Commissions are going to have to fix it up. They're going to put a lot of money into it and they're only going to walk away with eighty-five to 90 percent of what the original is price. I'll give them one hundred percent in this price and they don't have to do anything to it. I'll take it as is and then I'll have to pay property or the to worry about taxes or insurance anymore and I'll buy their house and they can be the bank instead of being the landlord. It could be the bank. 

Joe: Nobody calls the bank and ask them for repairs or to fix things, understand the difference. So let me just give you one more time here. We only have a few more minutes if you are interested in working with me. And we're going to get your system set up and have you come up with a marketing plan should help you find the sellers to pull the lists to pull. We can help you skip trace them. We're going to help you set up the systems to market to them, find the Vas that will do the marketing for you. And so you can get some coaching and help and accountability to REINetwork.com/systems. REINetwork.com/systems. We've got a few more questions here. Chris says, if you think about just do it. It really works. And I love it. Gavin, great. Thank you, Chris. I wish you could see the questions. Gavin, I should have thought of this before. 

Gavin: Yeah. So I've been I'm trying on social media. That's kind of what I'm looking down, but it's too old to communicate over to you. 

Joe: So Keen is asking. I want to learn more about how to flip lots. What's a good place to start. There's a lot of good podcasts out there. I'd recommend you check them out. If you go to my podcast, Real Estate Investing Mastery. I did a podcast with you going to Real Estate Investing Mastery Dotcom and you do a search for Episode two zero one. I did this three years ago, but it's still one of my favorite podcasts, Simplicity, Empire of Land Investments. So again go to RealEstateInvestingMastery.com, do a search for 201 or Scott Todd, really good podcast. You should listen to that. All right. Any other questions here real quick? I think we're good. Oh, here we go. How do you feel about the competition level in Las Vegas or Louisiana or L.A.? How do we feel about this relates to Vegas? It is Las Vegas. 

Gavin: Yeah, I mean, there's obviously pockets. You have to be careful in Vegas. You get a lot of people invest in from Phoenix and Vegas. So you've got a lot of marketing efforts going into that market. You just have to look again and analyze within Vegas and make sure you're in the kind of the right areas where the activity is depending on if you're doing cash deals, if you're doing wholesaling or whether the buyers are buying. And then if you're doing lease options, then that's fine as well for that market. It probably suits more of a creative finance market unless, again, you have that some systems in place and you're really going to work and follow to get deals done in Vegas. So it's a bit like Phenix is heading that way. 

Joe: So as competitive as Phenix police get, Jesse, is it time to stop selling in California? I think it's time to stop doing anything and everything in California and hightail it out of there. I'm sorry. I'm just kidding. You know, I used to live in California. I was born there. Raised there. I've lived in San Diego, L.A., San Francisco and Bakersfield. I love California. My family's still there, but I would never want to live there. It's a crazy market, crazy state, and it's just easier to do deals. But even if you're there, you don't have to do deals. Like you can have the entire United States open to your backyard. I would probably encourage you to look outside of California, the other states. That's what I would. OK, one more question here from Theresa. What if the property needs repairs? How does that play into all your offers, especially if your property needs repairs? 

Joe: When I'm first making my initial offer, if I can tell from the pictures it needs cosmetic work, paint, carpet, I'll do ten dollars a square foot for repairs. If the seller tells me it doesn't need any work and I've not seen any pictures, I'll figure five dollars. If it's a full gut rehab. Twenty five bucks a square foot for repairs. So when I'm making my initial offer, it's just real simple. Five, ten or twenty, twenty-five dollars a square foot for estimating repairs. If you're using area simple, there's a really good estimator tool in there to help you estimate repairs. But every offer I make is contingent on an inspection. So if the seller says yeah, and they accept your offer, you can get a contractor there to give you a better estimate. Plus, here's the important thing. Your buyers will tell you how much repairs you just go and figure. Thirty thousand dollars for repairs. And if it's not enough, your buyers will tell you. So then you have time. Go back to the seller and renegotiate a new price or cancel the contract or anything else. Kevin, I think we got all of the questions here. This has been fun. Have appreciate you guys very, very much. 

Joe: And anything else we can do to help you just shoot us a message or contact us on Facebook or YouTube here. And if you want to work with us, go to REINetwork.com/systems, REINetwork.com/systems. OK, we appreciate your awesome. Thanks, Joe. Thanks again. Later, if you like this video, this has been helpful to you. Please let us know. Give us the thumbs up right now. Say thank you. What did you like? What were some of the big takeaways you got from this? Please type them right now in the comments on YouTube or Facebook. I love this job. No, thank you, guys. Feeling more confident than ever. Still doing my homework. Angelica, really appreciate it. Thanks, Jessie. Thanks, Joe. Thanks a lot, Willie. Thanks. And Laurie, I hope that's. Thank you. At least not if you really. To Theresa, great info. Nice. OK, so please type down below guys. What what were some of your big takeaways, what you really like from this. Really appreciate it. Share this video, give us a thumbs up, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Go check out Gavin's YouTube channel. It's called REI Network. Charlie says very informative. Thank you, Sean Vass. Thank you, Angelica. Cool and subscribe to the channel like the video and check us out of our network dot com systems. If you want to get more information about work this gap. We'll see you guys take care. Thanks. 

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