Joe: What's up, guys? Welcome. This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast and guess who I have with me right here? The one and only the honorable Brandon Turner is in the house. Really honored to have you on my show. I've looked up to you guys at Bigger Pockets for a long, long time. You just are beasts in the industry. And you guys have done so much to help the industry, to legitimize it, to help people who want to get started in the business and maybe don't have a ton of resources and don't want to get trapped in the guru hype. And they're just looking for networking, for connections, for education. And you guys have rocked the world. I mean, I think it's awesome what you guys have done. Congratulations. 

Joe: And those of you that don't know, there's this little-known podcast. Not too many people know about it called Bigger Pockets. I've meant to ask you offline what your numbers are, but like. 

Brandon: I think we just hit one hundred million downloads, something like that. So it's OK. 

Joe: To put this in perspective, I'm at five and a half, maybe six million downloads. 

Brandon: All right, there you go. I thought about them. That's not bad. 

Joe: I tell you, I think I've been doing my podcast longer than you guys, so I've been doing this since twenty eleven. 

Brandon: That's longer than us. I think we were twenty twelve. Yeah. 

Joe: Long time crazy, crazy man. So I got a lot of cool things I want to ask Brandon about and we're going to be talking about what he's doing today. I want to talk about one of his bad deals, like it's a funny story he's told before on YouTube. It's really good. I want to ask him some questions about open door capital, because this is a great fund that's doing some pretty cool things. And you can join him if you want, but also look to see what he's doing and maybe do it yourself. Right. And hopefully our connection is good. Brandon, you still see me all right? 

Brandon: I do. I do. I've had some I'm in Hawaii. Right. So I get like the random like your internet's unstable. Like I can't help it though. If it gets fuzzy, we're good. 

Joe: The audio still is this good. All right. So listen, Brandon has written some really good books. I just want to bring this up to you guys. You can go get them if you have not. My favorite book that he's written is the book on real estate investing with little to no money down. This is a really good book without the hype of no money down strategies. But he talks a lot about how to get into real estate if you don't have a ton of money. And by the way, it's no and low. So you do need to spend some money to get things right because you only take money. Yeah, yeah. I know a guy that got in big trouble for writing a book called How to Buy a House for a Dollar. Oh, really? Yeah. In Australia. And he got in big trouble with the local government. Authorities are. So you can kind of technically maybe buy a house for a dollar, but there's a lot more that goes into that. Right. So there is a great book. Good. We'll get this at Bigger Pockets, the book on managing rental properties. 

Brandon: The one I wrote with my wife. Yes. 

Joe: And I think this might be one of the big reasons why you went into mobile home parks. 

Brandon: Yes. Yeah, we figured that was one of our unique abilities. So why not pursue the difficult world of managing mobile home parks? 

Joe: Yes. So that was the managing rental properties, which, by the way, I was having a conversation the other day with the guy that we both know, and he sells a lot of turnkey deals. And he was something interesting that he was saying. He's had a lot of problems with selling properties to other people. Is turnkeys with finding good property management companies. Right. And that's a common problem. But what he has discovered, and he's starting to train his people now, is how to self-manage your properties. And if anything, doesn't mean you have to be the one doing it, but maybe you hire an assistant. Right. And so what I'd strongly suggest doing, hire an assistant and give them this book here. 

Brandon: Follow the system. Yeah, that was that was pretty much literally just our like our company manual. And we just kind of turned it into a book. I mean, it was like we said down like, how do we do this? How do we do this? How do we do that? It became a book.

Joe: So there are good property managers out there. Sometimes when you scale and get big, it's hard to find and sometimes it becomes a full-time job just managing the manager well. And this is what I've always done. I've hired an assistant and I had my assistant manage my properties for me and just give them that book. 

Brandon: Like, I wonder if you could hire a VA like a full-time virtual assistant from like the Philippines for like five hundred bucks a month. And I wonder if you could do that and have them run your rental business. They could probably handle a dozen rentals. 

Joe: I don't see why not. They can handle more than that. 

Brandon: Probably more. If they're full time. Forty hours a week. They can handle quite a bit and ninety nine percent of the work can be done without having to be anywhere and exactly right to do something. You can hire somebody. It'd be a cool experiment to run, how much can a $5 VA do. 

Joe: Yeah, I've done it for years, not using VAs to manage rental property. I've always use a local assistant, but I mean with the websites Internet today, like with Kozi, like how much you can do so much with sites like that. Right. Zillow Rental Property Manager. Yeah. There's so much that can be done, especially if you have a good online tool. All right. Two more books. Brandon, the book on rental property investing. I'm sure you talk a lot about the BRRRR strategy on here. 

Brandon: I do mention in there a bit. 

Joe: Yeah, and if I hear that word one more time, I'm going to choke someone. 

Brandon: It's funny that came from a blog post I wrote a long time ago, and somehow people just think it's funny to say so, like there's something in there about marketing. And when you market with a funny phrase, people just love to say it. 

Joe: Yeah, it'll catch. All right. One more. And this is kind of the basic fundamental foundational book that you all need to check out if you haven't already, how to invest in real estate. The ultimate beginner's guide to getting started. This is a great book to get started. I got to ask you first thing, Brandon. How did you write these books? Did you cheat like I do when I write my books or you do videos or podcasts and you turn on me, transcribe them and hire somebody to help you write them and all that or?

Brandon: No, no, I wrote those. I'm not opposed to doing it your way. I may in the future because I have a lot more book ideas. I would love to write in limited time now with the young kids. But no, I think everything I've written, I'll tell you actually it's an interesting thing. So when I got started writing the first one, I started with the book on rental property Best in the blue one. However, I got the Chapter two and it was on finding creative finance and it ended up being like forty thousand words. I was like, all right, this needs to be a book. So I shelved that one for a while and then worked on the No Money Down book instead. But that process took about a year to write. That took me a long time and I pick it up once in a while. Then I went back and I started from page one of the book like this year or two later, and that took me a year or so for the No. One let me down to the year when I wrote the blue one, the rent money investing, I said, you know what, I'm going to do this in one hundred days.

Brandon: So this is the quote, right? Like Abe Lincoln, I think that it might not have been him. If I had six hours of chop down a tree, I'd spend four sharpening my ax. Right. So I was like, all right, I'm going to what's sharpening the ax when writing a book? This applies to all things real estate or whatever, but like, what's the what is the sharpening the ax thing? And so for the book, it was I need to outline really well. So what I did, I sat at Starbucks, my wife and I did together we set at Starbucks with a stack of index cards, a little three by five index cards, and we wrote every single chapter name out and laid them all out. And then every subchapter we wrote what the subject would be. And then we looked over every single card and wrote a brief summary of what that little section would be. So day we had ten chapters, ten sub chapters, one hundred cards that would expand a little bit in the process and you move things around, but we get one hundred index cards. 

Brandon: So then I said, OK, one hundred days, one card per day, four hundred days. And that's what we did. We ended up, I ended up writing more than that because some days I'd get ambitious and write two or three cards and we ended up writing both books, the book on rental property investing and managing in one hundred days total combined. So and it was the easiest book I've ever written. It was so simple because it was just every day pick up a card. That's what I'm right. Not so new. And then how long would it take you to do one of those chapters in one day, about an hour to hour and a half, I write about a thousand words an hour, probably when I'm writing on average. So it is real estate related. It's not real in real estate. It's how to stuff. It's pretty quick. If I was like writing a book on the psychology of persistence, like I would take much, much longer than that to like research. And there's very little research that has to go into real estate books. It's more of like, this is just what I do. 

Joe: So, yeah, I did write a book called Wholesaling Lease Options and it's just a little book, but I spent so much thinking time on that thing like six months and I wrote it all out and I got it back from the book print because I wanted a real physical book and it was only a quarter of an inch thick. I was so discouraged, like, you work so hard and this book is so small. 

Brandon: I got multifamily coming out next year and it's draft. The draft is done. It's one hundred and forty thousand words, which will be about six hundred pages. If we don't edit it down, I'm sure the editors will take out quite a bit. And then Brian Murray, who's my partner, he wrote, We were on two volume set. So here's his volume two and his one hundred and forty thousand words. We're going to have about an encyclopedia of multifamily coming out next year. They're competing with Joe Fairless. I got bet he was my inspiration. I mean, his book on syndication is like the book like it is the book I've heard there from so many people. It's sitting right over there. Yeah, it's phenomenal. I took a different approach. We I went my volume is on smallmouth, so like it's not syndication now. Brian his is on the larger stuff, so his is more competing with Joe Fairless. 

Joe: But OK. All right. All right. So good for you man. Congratulations on doing books like that. And they're really, really good books. We already getting people here saying Brandon Turner, legit, super humble guy, best podcast out there with David Greene. 

Brandon: I'm the most humble guy in the entire world. You've never met anybody that humbles me. 

Joe: I'm well, you know who wrote that in the Bible, Moses is was the most humble man on all the earth is right that Moses you right. 

Brandon: That's funny. 

Joe: So, guys, listen, we we're live right now as we're recording this on Facebook in the YouTube's. So if you want to say hello, then type something in the comments. Give me a thumbs up like the video that would really appreciate. Scott is in the house from YouTube. Sheryl is here, Sheryl from Facebook. And we're even going to be broadcasting we're broadcasting this also on Periscope. So believe it or not, there are people here in periscopes, somebody I don't know who this is. Brandon's my hero. Well, Facebook here is my hero. I saw one of the videos you did a few weeks ago. I don't know how old the video was. You were talking about your first video that made you decide to start outsourcing your property management, right? Yeah, this is a funny story, would you mind sharing it again here, somebody? 

Brandon: Yeah, they asked me the question. I recorded it and I played on my Instagram, I think it was. And they asked the question. Tell us about your worst deal ever and then your best or worst ever and your best deal ever. And so I tell this story and I'll tell it real quick now is I had four buddies. I had a buddy who had three brothers/friends in one of my apartments. 

Brandon: I had a twenty-four-unit apartment and they rented one of the units there. And I was managing myself and trying to do everything myself for the most part. I mean, I had my mother-in-law who we still have today, and now she answers phone calls and deals with most of the repairs and maintenance. She's kind of my assistant basically when it comes to managing. But at the time, like my buddy was there was my friend. Right. So he didn't call my mother in law, but he didn't call the office? No. He called me or texted me and said, hey, my toilet is not running very well. 

Brandon: It's not flushing very well. I said, OK. And of course, when it's not in your system, you go outside the system. It just I forgot about it and didn't think about it. A couple of weeks later, he takes me back and he said, Hey, man, I toilet's getting really bad. In fact, it's full and it's full. And so I go over there and sure enough, they stop flushing. Two weeks earlier they just kept using it, just continued to use it every day while all four of them got the flu during those two weeks. So it was everything you can imagine in that in that toilet. And these are twenty-one-year-old guys. So they didn't think anything like they should call again for two weeks. So I'm like, well, I am not spending two hundred dollars on a plumber. That would be a stupid use of my money. So instead I'm going to fix it myself. So I get a big snake and I try to snake it and I get a plunger and I try to plunge it. None of it works. And finally, I'm like, the only way I can get this thing is I got to unbolt it from the floor. So I unbolted from the floor and I carry it across the floor like I'm straddling it, carrying it. And then it's still got stuff in it, it's still got stuff and it's full. 

Brandon: And then I tip it over into the bathtub. Of course it sloshes everywhere all over me and the floor in the bathtub and I dump it upside down into the bathtub. Then I see in the bottom of the toilet, I see it was like a contact lens solution bottle or something like that. And then I got sick for two weeks with the flu. Shocking. And that is the best real estate deal I ever did. And the reason why it's not the worst, even though might be the worst story. The reason I put that is because that's the deal I that taught me the biggest lesson there is for me, which was like learn to outsource, like there is ten dollar an hour jobs, there are fifty dollar an hour jobs are one hundred Olin our jobs and there are a thousand Olin our jobs. And I was doing a fifty dollar an hour job when I should have been focusing on a thousand dollar an hour job which would be signing deals, negotiating, putting together stuff, hanging with my family. That's dramatic. 

Joe: What a great lesson learned. And like I've said before, I was doing I'm doing this. Podcasters called deals gone bad that everybody's been talking about their bad deal kind of gets depressing a little bit. But isn't it true, like smart people, I say this smart people learn from their mistakes. Wise people learn from the mistakes of others. And this is why I love this platform doing podcasts and things like this, because we can talk to people, hear their stories, figure out what's working, what's not, what can, and so that people can listen to that and say, oh, yeah, I'm not going to do that ever, or that's a great idea. I will do that. And that's so key to focusing on your five hundred thousand activities and outsourcing everything else, the fun one. 

Brandon: I sell that property later and don't have it anymore. Now, I don't do any of managing. I'm completely out of it. But that was the lesson. 

Joe: All right. So you're at bigger pocket's. Everybody here knows that we're getting tons of people here. Brian Given's both. You guys rock the boat. I got my first two deals because of Brandon. That's awesome. Look, I don't get any of these comments. I started investing real estate because of Brandon. Yes, I have his books. I can listen to him all year long. Thank you. Stay humble, my friend. Thank you. Yeah, we got a lot of good feedback comments here. Steve, love the content. Thanks. Thanks. So, Brandon, when did, you're in Hawaii now. Why did you when did you move your way and why? 

Brandon: Yeah, I got here a couple years ago, two and a half years ago maybe it was we moved here because we lived in Washington where it rained all the time, like twenty-four, seven. And I was like, why live where I didn't like living? Then it rained and it was miserable and all that. So I packed up my family. We went and spent a month in Hawaii and it was amazing. And I was like, I could live here. And then a year later, it took a while to actually work up the courage to actually move. But a year later moved and spent three months and also goes, amazing, I want to spend more time. And we couldn't find a place, couldn't find a neighborhood, couldn't find anything. And so we decided, okay, fine, we're going to move somewhere else. We'll go to Nashville because I like Nashville. And then that weekend we decided to take a little like we're on a Lahu like Honolulu area. And then we took a little bit of Maui, you know, the Lovers Island. And within an hour we had found a house in the right neighborhood that had a view and it had a pool and it had a moat. Three units like I could house hack it, which I'm doing and everything. It was perfect. And I was like, hey, we found it. So we put an offer, got accepted, got somehow miraculously got a loan approved for a multi-million dollar purchase and moved in. So it's been it's been amazing. Amazing. 

Joe: I mean, what are some of the challenges with living in paradise like that? It can't be all roses and all of that is. 

Brandon: You get a little bit tired of like the like I'm going to go to the beach in the sunshine and it's like whales jumping. I mean, it's not that you do miss the seasons a little bit. I do miss the seasons. I like I see people right now posting like the snow and all that. And I'm like, oh, I wouldn't miss it if I could travel to go do it. But because travel is so hard right now, it's like that's kind of a bummer. So the biggest thing is missing the seasons. 

Joe: Did it affect your real estate investing at all or were you? 

Brandon: In a good way. It forced me to finish systematizing and get out of my business in Washington. It's actually I'm a big fan of long-distance real estate investing. My buddy David wrote the book Long Distance Real Estate Investing, but I'm a big fan of it because it forces you to be good at business, not good at real estate. The difference there. Right. And so by investing at a distance, you are forced to be good at business. And so I got a lot better at that. I also being out here led to a couple of cool things. One, when you're somewhere where people like to travel a lot, just this morning, I hit by a guy like I'm on Maui right now, vacation. You wanna get some coffee later? And that sounds cool. 

Brandon: I mean, I don't take everyone up on it because, like, it would be coffee every day, but, like, I try to get out at least once a week to go with the coffee with someone to go to a bar or restaurant, whatever. Just go hang out people. And so you adapt you I mean, you you learn from their knowledge. You get kind of like, what do they call it, whatever smosh with people and you get their knowledge and their wisdom. And that's been amazing. I mean, the fact that, like Brian Murray came out here, who is my partner now, he came out here to Maui for just like a little mastermind retreat we did. And we started talking and he's like, well, I'm going to go buy a bunch of big multifamily. I'm going to go buy a bunch of big mobile home parks. And he's like, well, maybe we should do it together. And I'm like, maybe we should. And so now we bought a thousand units in the last year and I wouldn't have done that without Brian and without being here. And I don't think so. Yeah, for that reason. It's just it's it's been fun for that. 

 

Joe: Now, Josh Dorkin moved out there to do. 

Brandon: He did. At least he is he is here for the winter. He bought a house and he's here for a while trying to escape covid drama on the mainland. It's not like, I would say it's better here. It's better here than almost anywhere else in that we still wear masks and stuff. But it's been like you to take a test to get here. You have to prove you don't have covid to get here. And so, like, it's a little bit more it's like an island, weird. 

Joe: Do you have to quarantine once you get there from out of town? 

Brandon: You used to have to. Now, you can avoid that if you take the test ahead of time, if you can prove you don't have it within 72 hours of getting here, I think they're going to revert on that pretty soon, though, because the numbers are ticking up and they're going to probably go back to no test. Just you can't come here unless you have. 

Joe: That test is no fun. 

Brandon: Yeah, that's what I hear. It's pretty rough. 

Joe: It hurts. They stick that thing way up there in your nose. 

Brandon: And however, the test I don't understand. I don't understand this world of testing, but like my partner, Ryan, another business partner of mine, Ryan, in open door capital, he lives here. He's one of my tenants, I guess he got my house hack here. And Ryan flies all the time. And every time he does, he takes a test. They ship him it in the mail overnight, ship it in the test. He has to get on a Zoom call with a doctor. Like they have a special doctor. He takes it. And that one all you do is you spit in a little tube, put it in there, mail it, and then twenty-four hours later they get it and their test results are back. It's crazy. So why are we doing a nose thing? If you can do the spit thing and it still is OK, I don't I don't know. I don't I don't get it. 

Joe: So I took my daughter to watch me take the test because we thought she was sick and she's totally afraid of needles and anything. Right. So I thought, well, she'll just watch me do it. It'll be fine, you know, and then she'll be safe. Then she'll say, Oh, I can do that. But they pull out this cute tip that's about five feet long and then they stick it up your nose. I'm trying so hard to just act normal. Yeah, but I started squirming like a little girl and I was so, I just wanted to pull her hand away. I felt like five minutes. And my poor daughter, I look, she's nine and she's almost in tears like, no, daddy, no. So that did not work. Don't take your little kids with you when you get your covid test. 

Brandon: Yeah, no, I got to figure out a better way to take a test, because the other thing I do with the doctor is we don't want your nose throat specialist for something else like figure out allergy stuff. And they're like, well, let's look inside your nose and you take out this like scope thing and he's like, we're going to put it up. Like, they put it up there. And it was like tickling my like my belly button on the inside. Like, that's how far I think he was going up and in. It was terrible. And I was like, now I know what the covid test is like. 

Joe: Well, OK, enough of that. I want to also recommend you guys listen to a podcast you just did recently with you and Josh Dorgin were on and it was just a month or two ago. And you guys replayed one of the sessions that Josh did at your last event. Yeah, that was a really, really good podcast. And just to hear his story and kind of what happened and what he's doing now, I was really it was moving. It was touching. And it was such a good podcast because it's easy to just talk business about business all the time and think about money, money, money. But then you don't realize I was moved by it. Like you don't realize how important family is and time. And I love being with people that you love until it's gone or almost gone. You know, it was. How did that inspire you? 

Brandon: Yeah, I mean, Josh had always said family above everything that was always his motto. It was the number one core value of Bigger Pockets and it was on the wall written. Everything, but that was a good time to see Josh like prove it. Josh is an interesting character and I think this a lot is that, like, he is either mean genius, any of the genius. Because a couple of things. I mean, yes, he built bigger pockets and he does good business stuff. But what was genius about Josh is that he did what nobody does and that's worked for ten years, one hundred hours a week to build up a business. And that's what it takes sometimes. But at the same time, he also did that knowing as his kids would grow, he could get out of it someday. And that's exactly what he did. So he built the thing. He made a machine that just operates without him. And then when he pulled out, nothing changed. I mean, every month, like the month you left, I think we had the biggest month ever. And the month after that was a bigger month and bigger pockets has never slowed down since the day he left. He built an engine. He built the machine. That's what I'm trying to do with my real estate. I think all of us are doing with businesses to a degree is or we should be doing is trying to think, how do I build this? I'm not I'm not the engine. There's an engine and I operate it and I can tweak it if needed. So I was genius with building a machine. 

Joe: Well, OK, cool. Let's talk about open door capital. You were doing a lot of houses, a lot of house hacking, but also just single-family doors. You started getting into bigger deals, multiple, you were BRRRRing. First, explain why mobile home parks. What got you interested in that? 

Brandon: Yeah, I mean, the short answer is I interviewed a few people on our podcast and whenever we did mobile home parks and whenever I did, I was always like, that sounds so cool. And does it mean it's the best investment? No. And I always want to tell people, like, it doesn't mean mobile home parks are better than anything else. I like a lot of aspects of them, other aspects I don't like about them. But the most important thing is that I chose that. Like in other words, the best niche is the one you choose and commit to. And so after a few years of me kind of taking it easy, like I'm selling a lot of books and doing a few flips here and there. But overall, I was kind of like taking it easy. I moved to Hawaii and I was like, it was good. But I think a lot of happiness and fulfillment comes from growth. And I wasn't growing. And so the question was then how do I grow? So I went to actually Joe Fairless's best ever conference in Denver, surrounded by people who are doing way more than me. 

Brandon: And I was like, dang, like these people are like killing it. And I'm just over here, like, I just did a house this year, you know, and I was like, I got to up my game. And so I, I sat there and really thought through what do I want to do, what would be what would be my thing, what's my niche, what I choose. And I decide a mobile home parks and for the reason actually got to know it's funny because it's not actually a good reason at all. I got in because I was like, well, I don't have to do with contractors, found a mobile home park. Then the tenants own their own houses. So they did do a repairs. No more toilets for me, no toilets if I own mobile home parks. Well, the truth is we deal with a lot of contractors all the time. We're always getting new locks ready and we're remodeling houses when they abandon them. But it doesn't matter why I picked it, the fact that I picked it. 

Brandon: And so I went all in. And that's just a lesson for everyone. Listening is like if you're if you feel like you've been jumping back and forth, different things like, oh, I could do this, I could do a whole selling lease option, seller financing, I could go to the BRRRR stuff, I could do apartments. Like it doesn't matter. I can find a multimillionaire in every single solitary niche that we just talked about and more it's more important that you decide than what you decide. 

Joe: So like I do, I've been doing houses full time since 2009. Lately I've been flipping vacant land and I really like it. And I have two teenage boys, seventeen and fifteen. Maybe I'm underestimating them. But there's just a level of complexity in negotiating with a seller on a house that they've lived in for thirty years. And there's so every house is so different. But when it comes to land, it's easier, right? It's just cut more cut and paste and my boys, we flip twenty-five thirty vacant land deals and now we're starting to sell them on terms which is pretty cool. We've done two or three in the last few months. Two hundred to three hundred bucks a month. 

Brandon: That's all. Yeah. I love. And it's a super cool niche. It's not super popular. It's not the reason I chose Mobile Home Park at the time. They weren't very popular. Today they have a lower cap rate. They try that lower cap rates than apartments do and probably can I talk about them nonstop, but like you just picked it and you're like, hey, this sounds pretty cool. Let's go with it. See what people oftentimes I think are looking for is they're looking for like this hidden gold on the beach. They got their metal detector out there and trying to find like, what's my destiny? What am I supposed to do? And in reality, it's like we're like artists. We're sitting on a blank canvas right now and you've got a paint brush that's like what sounds like. So I would just encourage people to not think like, what's the right thing for me? What's the best investment for me? But like, what sounds cool, what sounds fun. Mobile Home Park sounded fun to me. Vacant land and fun. Do you do it then. Do it excellence and you're going to be fine. 

Joe: I think the important thing to do is find a strategy and just focus on it, become the expert at it because it's true. What's that saying go? If you if you chase two rabbits, you'll catch neither one of them, something like that. There's such a power of focus, whether it's wholesaling, like you said, or land or mobile homes or big apartments. If you can focus in on that, a great book that I recommend everybody. Maybe you've read it. It's called The Pumpkin Plan. Have you heard of it? Yeah, like my cover. The other book right here, one of the other ones and was another one back there. The profit first anyway. All good books. Yeah I've got such. The power of finding one thing, hammering in on that, focusing on it like a laser beam. 

Brandon: Yeah, I like the analogy like a bridge, like if you like, if you live on this island right here and another island over here and you've got to build a bridge there. Right. If you build two bridges, you'll build each one half as fast. If you build bridges, you'll build each one 10 percent as best. So if you're trying to get to Financial Freedom or Millionaire Island over here, whatever it is you're trying to get to or quit my job, spend time with the family, travel more island, the more bridges you're trying to build, like we just have we have a finite amount of time every day. And so you just can't build more than one or two bridges. I mean, I think one bridge, like one business bridge, you might have your job bridge. You can't necessarily put that right away, but stop building 12 bridges and just every bridge will get you there. They will all get you there. 

Joe: That's a really good point right now. Just one more analogy now is these is the sun, right? I mean, how many gazillion jewels of energy does the sun shine down on us? But if you get a little magnifying glass and focus that energy, you can start a fire and they say there's more. I forget the stat, somebody would know it. Who's listening to this? There's more powerful energy and a one bolt of lightning in that one millisecond that it hits than almost all the energy from the sun. Maybe that's not right, but it sounds good. It's huge. 

Brandon: When I was a kid, I was like, I still wonder this, but I used to think like when I like, why are we not harnessing the power of a lightning bolt to power all of our cities? I think it doesn't seem like an impossible task. Like you can put up a lightning rod. Why can't you just take that energy and like, power the city every time it lightning? 

Joe: OK, so people are typing in some questions here. This is really good. Guys, if you're watching this live right now on the Facebook's or YouTube type in your questions, because this is your chance to get to ask Brandon whatever you want. And as long as it's appropriate, I will put it up here on the screen. Even if it's inappropriate, I will answer it. OK, I want to talk about while people are typing in their questions, I want to talk about your website. Everybody needs to go here right now. ODCFund.com. Open Door Capital is your fund that you created. I wanted to ask you, Brandon, why did you create a fund and what was the process of that? 

Brandon: Yeah, so we knew we wanted to go big. Right. We want to buy big stuff, big mobile home parks. That's what I decided on. I read a book called Vivid Vision by Cameron Harold. It's an awesome book. It's all about defining, what is that, three-to-five-year vision painting. It very clearly goes back to the analogy of the paint. You're an artist at a blank canvas. So I painted a very clear vision of what I wanted. And it was a thousand units, fifty million dollars of real estate in three years. And I even specced out. It's like a newspaper article. It's on my wall over there. I get it. But it's so much of a hassle down. But it's like a newspaper article about like my company three years in the future. It's kind of fun. It's all about like what we do, like how we grow, what we own so that we had the vision. So we always start we start with vision. I would actually say we start with identity. Actually, it's like you start with identity, as I am a top real estate investor, I'm an investor who does big stuff. So now I have the identity. 

Brandon: Then I move to vision and I'm like, this is the vision is I am going to build this fifty million dollar real estate business in the next three years. Then from there we move to like, what does that look like? And we're like, oh well, we got to make a plan then I guess we need to buy the mobile home parks average price. Let's call it three, four or five million dollars for a property. So we need to syndicate the money for that. Right. So I got a syndicate. I got to raise money from other investors to put the money together. But I thought to get to fifty million dollars, I'd have to put the average purchase price of like three million. Four million. That's a lot of syndication to put together. And every year, like that's like ten of them every year or eight of them just to try it. I'm like that's just a lot of work, a lot of paperwork. So instead we said, well, let's just do a fund. 

Brandon: And so we launched a fund and it was like a five million dollar fund and we raise five million bucks. And we were like for four point five and we bought real estate with it. It was like that was cool. We did that in the first like three months. We're like, well, let's do another one. So we then the next one we raised like ten. 

Joe: Well, who's we. And how did you learn to do that? What's involved with creating a fund? 

Brandon: Yeah, I had no idea how to do that. I talked to some people who are doing them, like going to an event like the Joe Fairless event. That was a good help. Talking to people on the podcast was a help. I read Joe Fairless's syndication book. That was a big help. Yeah, the fun thing was a little bit different, of course, but it's one of those you just figured out by doing it. Like you just kind of like by asking the question, okay, well, what comes next? What comes next? I don't know what comes next. And you get the right people. It's like the who, not how. Things like rather and how do I start a fund? It's who's going to start a fund. 

Joe: Did you partner with somebody that's done it before? 

Brandon: Not really. I mean we partner with I partner with Bryant. Like I said, Brian Murray brought him in. He had never done his own fund or the Olin syndications, but he had been a couple on other people. So we had a little bit a key principle. I mean, he's signing on the loan docs for a piece of the deal. So he's been he's been involved before. And then Ryan Murdocks, who helped kind of lead the charge the whole first year, he was kind of running everything. He had never done a syndication either. But we thought in a syndication attorney, just ask for a bunch of recommendations, found a great syndication attorney. And there was really like it's there's this quote that I say a lot, this thing, and it says that nothing is hard. It's just steps that are undefined or unpracticed. 

Brandon: In other words, like anything like you could go and build a nuclear bomb. It's not hard. It's just you don't know what the steps are. Yeah. You don't know what you know what the steps are and you don't know you haven't practiced it enough. So it's easy. Right. Like you right now, you would probably not say it's super hard to go and find a piece of vacant land, but if I was going to do it, it'd be super-hot because I don't even know the first steps. So in other words, like we find an attorney who just does that for a living and it's super easy for her. And that today when I'm thinking I'll set up a fund, I'm like, man, funds are super easy. Like, they're not complicated at all. Yet it's scary when you have a practice that you haven't done it. So there are things to be aware of, of course. But anyway, so we launched we're now on a third fund. So it's fun to have a fund. 

Joe: Talk about your first mobile home park that you buy. Did you buy it on your own or did you partner with somebody with experience? 

Brandon: Yeah, the first one was before the fund. So the first one was it was actually before even the whole syndication with the Joe Fairless thing and the whole vision. It was just, I bought a mobile home park because I thought it'd be fun to have one. And so Ryan Murdock, who is my partner today, Ryan, actually found he knew the seller of and that's how we became friends. Actually, I didn't know Ryan before that. But Ryan brought me a mobile home park and said, hey, I found a mobile home park for sale, my area. I have my buddy of mine selling it. I'm sure you don't want it, but I thought I'd give it to you anyways, show it to you anyway, and I looked at it. I was like, this is exactly what I wanted. Had everything lined up like fifty units that had city sewer and water. It was mostly owned homes, which is what I wanted. And I had a great property manager in the area because Ryan knew, like Ryan was going to manage it and or and work with a local property manager. So I had everything I wanted. So we bought it. I actually partnered with him and with Mindy Jensen from Bigger Pockets. He's a community manager and host of the Bigger Pockets Money podcast. So Mindy and Karl, her husband, Ryan and I, we all partnered together. We bought it and we're actually in public, but we're in process of selling it right now, actually, for significantly more than what we bought it for later. So it's going to be a stupid, good return. 

Joe: So nice. Nice. And so you got hooked. You got the mobile home bug and you thought, we need to buy more. We need to raise some money to do that. Talk about some of the issues just briefly about why can't you just go out there and ask people for money? Why do you have to set up fancy structures for that? 

Brandon: You know, because we live in a fascist government. I'm saying no, because the government wants to protect people like Grandma from being able to taken advantage of and putting all our money with somebody. So the government sets up these rules and guidelines on what you can say and do and attract money and not attract money. There are two primarily types of funds. There's 506B and 506C, don't worry too much about that, everybody. But it's basically the main two most common types. And the B I hope I'm saying this correctly, the B is the one that you can't advertise. You can't go and just put that on your Instagram. Hey, I raised money for a fund, the C, which is what I have. I can I can talk about it on a podcast or on a video. I can do it, I can talk about how much I want, however, because I can talk about it because I have the super power of being able to talk about it. I can only take money from people who are rich. I can't take money from grandma. Unlike the people who don't advertise, they can take money from grandma. 

Brandon: There's guidelines and stipulations and all this. But that's basically the overall gist of it. So we decided because of, now most people choose B that I know most people I know choose 506B because they need to take that money from non-accredited people, which is the non-rich people. But because of my unique position as the host of the Bigger Pockets podcast and doing the webinars and doing calls like this, I knew I needed to be able to talk about it. I couldn't just not talk about my fund for years. That'd be ridiculous. So yeah. So we set up a 506C and then we're raising a bunch of money all the time. 

Joe: Has it been easier to get money from accredited investors than you thought it would be or has it been harder? 

Brandon: Yeah. Yeah. So I tried to raise money for a single deal back like four years ago and I talked to two of my buddies who are both pretty wealthy and they shot me down and I was like, oh, and it hurt my soul, you know, I was like, Oh, I'm such a loser. Like nobody likes me. And then, like, I really like, how do you really like my head was telling me, like, you're just terrible raising money. And I was like, I'm terrible raising money. I'm never going to raise money. That's not some I'm doing. I'm not good at it. I don't like it. Well, it turns out my two buddies just didn't have the money at the time, which if I weren't well off at the time as I thought they were necessarily. So it's like so then when I jump back into it, I have a lot of fear around that. 

Brandon: It was scary, like I'm going to be going to want to do this. But now we've we have we maxed out fund one. We filled up fund to enough on three. We're at seven or eight million dollars raised out of the fifteen we're trying to raise. And it's only been like a month and like we have really no timeline in closing it like. So anyway, it's been easier than I thought. And I'm not saying like everybody in the world is going to be easy like I obviously have a big network and I talk about real estate all the time and we have a growing email list and I invest heavily in Instagram, not financially. I don't put my money with Facebook and stocks, but I invest heavily my time and Instagram because I believe that, like, you need a place like platforms like that, whether it's Instagram, Snapchat, YouTube, whatever, like you need a way to like build trust and credibility at scale with people. 

Brandon: I think it's helpful anyway. So Instagram has a great impact. Most of our investors come from my Instagram, which is weird because you think of that. But most of my investors come from stick around because that is my channel and obviously they hear about me other places, maybe the podcast or whatever, but Instagram is where I do my call to action. If Gary Vaynerchuk. Jab, jab, right hook. I hope that, like you give, give, give, give, give, and then when you need something, you land that right hook, you give, give, give, and then you take hard when you need something. And that sounds bad. Take off. It just means like most businesses are like take, take, take, you know, like buy our product by our product, buy our product. And it's just like always just trying to ask for stuff instead. So I try to give, give, give, give, give and then once in a while and it's like I need to raise fifteen million dollars. I ask and asked very hard, so I'll, I'll make big pushes for it. 

Joe: And I was just going to ask you, what would you advise to beginners. You want to get into that and I think you nailed it right on the head. Pick a platform and become the expert at that. Right. Yeah. And just give it now. 

Brandon: Tick tock. There's so much opportunity there. I'm not there yet much anyway. But I think there's tremendous opportunity and things like tick tock right now. Like, I know people who just started their platform, their site to two months ago and a half million followers. And so, like I mean, I know some investors who got on Instagram early and they got over a million followers today. And I'm like, dang, I wish I would have started that earlier at the time. Like, everyone's like, well, why would you go to Instagram? It's full of 13-year-old girls. It's the same thing they're saying about take stock right now. Why would you go take a bunch of 13-year-old girls and dancing boys and like, who cares? But if that's the way the world is working, it's probably good to be there. 

Joe: Nice. All right. So just a couple more questions here about your fund. Do you raise the money first and go find a deal or do you find the deal first and raise the money? 

Brandon: Kind of both. We do. Like we will raise heavier when we have a deal in the pipeline, so and we will slow down the raise. I mean, I don't talk about as much. I don't do the webinar or any of that stuff when we don't have a deal. So right now we're actually pulled on a parklike next week and we have just enough money right now to close on it. And so I don't have any, I'm not out there, like, got to go raise another five million cause I don't really want to pay interest and dilute the fund if we don't have the parts to bring it in. So when we get something new under contract, which we're very good about getting them pretty regularly under contract, I think we've gotten eight now or eight or nine in the last year. So it happens every month or two. We'll get another one and yeah. So then we'll, we'll go into hardcore money raised.

Joe: So when you're raising money, are you raising money for the for the down payment on the financing or are you trying to pay cash for them? 

Brandon: Generally the down payment on the financing. I do love the idea of buying them though in cash because it's just you can get better deals and we've only done that once so far. But yeah, generally we're looking at thirty five percent down usually is what they want. Mobile home parks. Thirty-five to forty something we've been lucky with twenty something we've gotten up to 40 or 50 percent down but typically we're in like a thirty-to-thirty five percent range. 

Brandon: So we raise that, we raise the money needed for reserves, for maintenance, capex, all that saving for big items in the future and then closing costs. Yeah. And then I put money in every one of my own funds because I just I like my investors that hey, I'm like I got skin in the game. And I then I whenever we make money we make money in fees is an interesting thing. A lot of syndicators do syndication because they make fees and that's how they put money on the table. That's how they pay their bills. My goal is to never make money from fees. We charge fees, but I don't want to personally make any because I want to be able to look to my investor and say the only way I make money in this business is if this thing succeeds. Right. So in other words, what I do is when we make money, we hire more employees and then I pay the employees out of the fees that they're getting at me. So now we've got five people working in open our capital, which means we can grow faster. So it comes around back. You still get it back. But I we'll get it someday. I'm not yet. 

Joe: And that's fine because you're avoiding some of the criticism that somebody with the initials of it won't mention his name, but his initials are Grant Cardone. 

Brandon: There are a lot of it's actually kind of shocking how much money can be made off things like fees, because one hundred, two hundred, 300 million dollar deals and you're taking a one or two percent fee, you're talking millions of dollars in fees. And what's fascinating, this is one of the downsides of mobile home parks. Average mobile home park deal for us is like three million bucks. The average apartment deal that people do is let's call it fifteen or twenty million, guess which requires more work to buy the mobile home park by far more work than our apartments. Yeah, because the financing is way more difficult. There's way fewer of them. The mom and pops are way more like they don't they don't have their finances together. It is way more work for us to buy mobile home parks than it is for the average person to buy apartment complexes. Yet our fees are way like we get way less money for it. So it is it is what it is. And we chose this niche. In other words, like to buy a twenty-million-dollar apartment or a five million dollar apartment, which is easier there, probably about the same 2020 might even be easier because are going to get better financing from the big government entities that are financing. So yeah, it's interesting. 

Joe: All right. One more question about mobile homes. Who's running the operations? So do you have an in-house team? Do you outsource that? 

Brandon: Yeah, we have it in-house, sort of. It's kind of a hybrid system. So we are set up. So I have a guy named Walker who is in charge of the acquisitions. Walker is kind of my integrator. If you use, like, traction terminology, like he runs the a lot of the business. Ryan's really on like due diligence. In fact, right now he's in Alaska, zero degrees and four hours of sunlight or something like that. He's at the park that we're buying there. And then we've got investor relations guy. But then running the parks afterwards is part of the asset management role, which is Brian Murray. So Brian's my partner. We brought in for asset management. He has his own property management company called Washington State Properties, so right now Brian's team, he's the asset manager, but he also he hired himself basically in his own company to manage our properties. That said, we are going to eventually take that in-house ourselves. That just makes more sense, because then someday we can sell off our billion-dollar portfolio to a hedge fund with management intact and house. And I think we'll get a better price for it down the road. Not that that's necessarily the plan, but it sounds like a pretty good plan, right? 

Joe: Sounds good to me. Sounds good to me. So, guys, go check out the site here. ODC, Open Door Capital Fund Dotcom. Get some real cool information on what Brandon's doing and how he's got it set up. And I'd encourage you to look at this thing and look at ways like, man, how can I model that? How can I do something cool like that? Don't look at this, because these are big deals we're talking millions of dollars. Don't think that that's out of reach. It's really easy to fall into that trap, isn't it? Like thinking, oh, I could never do that. That's way out of my league. 

Brandon: But it's funny. Like I'm not doing anything different than I was doing five years ago, 10 years ago. It's just like I added some zeros. My buddy Darren Cigarroa says, don't be afraid of zeros. It's like real estate doesn't get that much more complicated. You go bigger. So if you thought like, yeah, I encourage people to join my list, even if you're not accredited, just join the list. See how we communicate, see how we send out letters. Not that we're perfect at it, but if you can pick up one or two things, it's a free education. So learn what you can apply to your life, discard what doesn't work for you and just keep growing.

Joe: And get on Brandon's list. Watch his webinars, see how he raises the money. Dealers bring him some deals with somebody else. I could use some mobile home parks. That's a great way. I mean, that's and you talk about this a lot in bigger pockets. Like if you want to learn the business, find somebody that's doing it. Don't just ask them, can I pick your brain over coffee, know, come to them with deals, with leads and come to them with an attitude of how can I help you grow your business and make more money? And then so if you if you if you can help brand and raise some money, if you can help Brandon find some mobile home parks, I bet you you'll get she'll teach you a little bit about how he does a business that we will do. All right. Will I ask I ask everybody here if you have any questions for Brandon before we leave here and somebody has this where to go? Oh, yeah. Where do where do babies come from? 

Brandon: They come from these birds that bring them over and they drop them. It's pretty fancy, actually, these 3D printers right now. I actually bought my daughter for Christmas and then I got a letter today saying, ah, email, it's not going to be here before Christmas. But I bought this little kid 3D printer that they can make their own toys, which is super cool. Really? Yeah, it looks really cool. I hope it lives up to the hype of their video and stuff on their website. 

Joe: So somebody has a question here. How much skin in the game? We talked about this a little bit ago. Should an individual have in a deal, I guess in general are 10 percent, 20 percent when raising money from others? That's a good question. 

Brandon: That's a good question. I don't know. I don't think I'd ever given a percentage because like, for example, if I'm raising a fifteen-million-dollar fund, I'm putting in like one hundred grand. So, like, my percentage is like, what's that? Not even a percent like it. I mean, it's tiny, right? It's tiny, tiny. But it's enough that investors will know the whole point of skin in the game is to make sure that people know that you have something to lose. So I don't want to lose one hundred grand. That would that would be terrible. So I'm going to do everything in my power not to I don't need to put in three million dollars to be afraid of losing money. If I was doing a deal I thought was going a single family house for one hundred grand, I was going to borrow the money. How much money you got? I mean, you don't need to do a hundred grand. If you did ten grand, would that scare you not to lose that money? I think so. So in that case, but if you had an amazing deal, you don't put any skin in the game. If you really have an incredible deal, skin in the game is helpful. But it's not the whole picture. It's actually a small piece because it was character and experience and their business plan far more than skin in the game in terms of whether or not I would fund them or partner with them. 

Joe: Yeah, very good. Good point. Al has a question here. It's always been said that you don't need a good credit score to get funding to invest in a property. I come to find out that it is not true. So could you clarify this for me? 

Brandon: Sure depends. If you're trying to get a bank loan, if you're trying to go to a bank, you would need a good credit score or at least above six twenty-five probably to be able to get a loan. That said, there is a one hundred and one ways to invest in real estate without using a bank. And all of those are generally OK and not having a high credit score. My favorite being a partnership example. A couple of years ago it was like ten years ago now there was a triplex, awesome. Three-unit property, three separate houses on one lot. I loved it. Fell in love with it from the moment I thought, I like that has to be my property. A small problem. I had no job, no credit, no income, no nothing at the time. I missed the early and early, early in my career. So I just found like this guy from my church, this guy and his wife. And we were just talking about real estate. And I knew there they thought I was cool. So I said, hey, why don't you guys just help me get the loan? You guys bring the down payment. 

Brandon: So they actually used the line of credit to bring a thirty thousand dollars down payment. I managed the property. I found the deal. I put it together to this day. We still we manage it in house today and they get half the profits and I get half the profits and I don't have my name on anything. Like my name is not even on the loan. My name is on the property. It's on the title, but it's not on the loan at all, so there are ways around it, seller financing is another way. There's less options in another way. There's wholesaling. You don't worry about credit scores. Hard money lenders rarely look at credit scores as they may. Yeah, there's lots of ways to do it. 

Joe: And here's the thing. You can get good at finding deals, right? 

Brandon: Good deal. Solve a lot of problems. 

Joe: I've always said we're not in the real estate business. We're in the marketing business. 

Brandon: And I 100 percent agree. 

Joe: And if you learn how to do marketing, you can get leads, you can find the deals. Money is easy. One of my coaches, Steve Cook, I don't know if you know the name of them. 

Brandon: Yeah, definitely changed my life. That's probably more the reason why I'm in Hawaii than anything else, really. A lifestyle like I was like, I want to live in Hawaii. That's the lifestyle I want. 

Joe: Nice. The whole concept is create a vision for your life first and then build a business around that. We could talk for an hour about that. So Steve and I, we've known each other for a long, long time. But anyway, he, of course, called debt free investing. And this is one of the things I learned from him where I'm not saying debt is bad and not going down that argument or not, but like, if you can find good deals, you can find an investor and you believe in like one hundred percent no debt right now. You can still get you can still do deals. And you can if you've got a good enough deal, you can find an investor to partner with. Yep. So if you want more information about all that, I think if you just Google debt free investing, Steve Cook life in there, that kind of stuff, you'll find I've got another question here. Is that OK, Brandon? You got nothing else to do in Hawaii? Nothing else. The weather's miserable out there. All right. This is from Sergio. When is a better strategy appropriate? That's buy, renovate, rent, refinance, refinance, repeat. 

Joe: When is it appropriate to apply if it's really slow to do compared to wholesaling seller financing subject to. So when I'm completing one BRRRR, it's maybe the equivalent to a total of ten wholesaling deals. Do you understand the question what he's asking there?

Brandon: Yeah, yeah. So BRRRR investing does take time. It takes typically six to 12 months to complete one-year cycle. You buy a property, you fix it up. That takes a few months. Then after six months you can go to a local bank or any bank and you get a refinance on it. And then you get your money back and you go do it again. BRRRR is a great strategy when, for example. So seller financing, I don't know the percentages, but I would guess less than five percent of all houses out there even have the ability to do seller financing without getting a subject to now. You could be subject to. But ninety five percent of people are going to to subject to. Wholesaling is a great way to make quick money. But you pay half the money to the government, then you're broke afterwards because you buy a car like the whole thing, just a job, nothing wrong with it. It's just a job. It's not investing long term. 

Brandon: So BRRRR is investing when you can't do. If I do, I do a seller financing all day if I could. That said, most seller financing again, it's really hard to find the number of deals are very fine, so are hard to find. And the ones you do find a lot time the sellers want a big down payment and if you have to do repairs, where's the money coming from for the repairs? So example, you find one hundred thousand dollar property and the seller was like, yeah, I'll carry the contract on, I'll do seller financing. No problem. I just want ten thousand down. OK, fine, ten thousand down. But the house also needs thirty thousand dollars of work. OK now you got thirty thousand. I got forty thousand dollars in the deal. You're like man I just sent 40 grand on this deal. But the BRRRR as you could have bought that house for one hundred grand, put in the thirty or the 30 grand needed to fix it up or whatever was right. And then the thing appraises way higher. Let's say it appraises for two hundred grand. You go to a bank, you refinance it, you get all your money back that you put into it or your partner's money or your lender's money, your hard money lenders, whatever you use to buy it, you get all your money back and now you have no money into a deal. That is a cash flowing 30 year fixed mortgage rental property. 

Brandon: And you go do it again and again and again. And the cool thing about the BRRRR strategy is it scales. It's the same thing you could do with a million-dollar property, a ten-million-dollar property, one hundred-million-dollar property. So it's really good for what I call the stack, which is where you, like, exponentially grow your portfolio. Single family, duplex, fourplex, ten-unit, twenty-unit, fifty unit. And you can you can BRRRR all the way up there. 

Joe: I don't know why you can't do both. I mean if you're in the business of marketing and you're finding deals, cherry pick the best ones, do a better strategy on them and a wholesale the rest. 

Brandon: Right, exactly. Yeah. That's why I like them. Finance strategy they call it in the book on investing with no money down. I say it's like tools in a tool belt. Like if you all you have is a hammer, then all you can do is pound a nail in the wall. If you have a hammer and a screw gun, you can now unscrew and screw and screw is great. Now you can also hit and screw. If you've got a forklift and a jackhammer and a saw and you've got all the tools, you can build a house, you could build a skyscraper. Right. The more tools you have in your mental toolbox, the more projects you can tackle. So it's not so much as should I do br or wholesaling or subject to it's let me get a little bit of all of these so I can find the right tool for the right job as it comes up. 

Joe: Good. And surround yourself with likeminded people who are passionate about real estate like you are. Yeah. BiggerPockets.com. There you go. OK, so we got to wrap this up. You. It's been fun talking to you. What do you got in the future? What's on the horizon for you guys? For you specifically and bigger pockets? 

Brandon: Yeah, for me specifically, more mobile home parks, more time off, really going to make twenty, twenty-one the year of like less, less stuff, more surfing, more. Bigger pockets wise, make a shift recently to our podcast. We doubled up. We're doing two podcasts a week, one of the real estate related and one of them is going to be personal development related. So we're bringing in authors and speakers like we just brought in. We've had Greg MacKean, I think it's his last name, essentialism, the author of Essentialism. Oh, he's hosting a podcast with you guys. Like not hosting, but he's one of our guests. We're interviewing all these people. And so we've got a couple of other Matthew McConaughey on. A couple other people like that that we're trying to get more of. Like the fuel that fuels your success is not like how do I buy a duplex? That's important tactical knowledge. But the real question is, when you said you're going to wake up at six a.m., why don't you wake up at 6:00 a.m. when you said you were going to go and analyze the deal, you didn't deal. Why not? It's the stuff between our two ears that matters like that. We really are failing and we succeed and fail based on those things, those principles. And so that's what we teach in a lot more of the good. 

Joe: I'm looking forward to that. Looking forward to that. All right. So, you know, people want to get a hold of you. 

Brandon: Open door capital fund on dotcom is the fun stuff. And then Beardy Brandon on Instagram. I'm like a 13-year-old girl there. 

Joe: I'm going to write that in there. BeardyBrandon. 

Brandon: That's it. You can follow me on Instagram. 

Joe: And guys, when you go follow Brandon, watch what he's doing. He's having some fun there, but there's very good intentions behind him. 

Brandon: Check out the post I just did. I did a post yesterday and I'm in the middle of a jujitsu wrestling session. And then I took a pen and I signed the final page of my purchase, like the actual closing documents for this big park we're buying while doing it. And it's a funny, humorous post. But just inside for everyone, like, why do I do stuff like that? It's because I know that this is marketing. Right. So, like, it would be a funny post. It's something people don't expect. It's me wrestling, signing a legal document. Right. And so then everyone clicked like on it, which then show that the more and more people on Instagram, more and more people see it, the more people like it, more people share it. And then within that description, I talk about how a shameless plug, if you're an accredited investor, come talk to us. So that's that kind of jab, jab, jab, right hook stuff a little bit where it's like giving value and making people laugh. But then you can you can take a little bit in there, too. 

Joe: So you've mentioned that book a couple of times. If you're all curious, go to Amazon. Look up Gary Vaynerchuk. Yeah. Gary V and jab, jab, hook. Right hook. I think it is. Yes. Good little book before too. I don't know. Lots of jabs, but Gary is a workhorse, so don't don't work as hard as he does it. Don't do that. Don't work as hard as a lot of people are saying here. Thank you so much. We appreciate you guys. And so thanks guys for being here. Thank you, Brandon, for being on the podcast. Honored to have you. Appreciate it. Keep up the good work and we'll see you all later. OK, thanks, everybody. Thanks, Brandon.