Joe: Hey, what's going on, Joe, we again, real estate investing Mastery podcast, this is episode number 12. How are you doing on the video there? Of Deals Gone Bad series. And this has been very informative, educational. Everybody has a different story. And Ester is our guest today on this podcast. What could go wrong when you've got a probate deal with seven siblings? Right. Like, what could possibly what could possibly go wrong in a big deal like that? But Ester's also going to talk a little bit about their first right after they started rehabbing, after they started flipping and wholesaling, they started they did a rehab deal and lost a bunch of money on that. So we're going to be talking a little bit about two different deals that have gone bad with Ester.

Joe: Now, if you remember, I have all the notes for these podcasts and the lessons learned and a lot of the links that we've been sharing and some bonuses and stuff like that. You can get the notes from this podcast. JoeMcCall.com/bad or text the word bad to thirty-onethirty-onethirty-one and we'll get you the mind map. Right now, all of the notes are in the mind map and I almost deleted the mind map the last podcast, but I didn't, I recovered it and I just made a back up of it. So it's all good. But all of the notes and the stuff that we've been talking about are going to be put together for you. I'm thinking about maybe turning it into a PDF or a resource or book or something like that to give to you guys.

Joe: But if you want your hands on this, highly, highly recommend it, because these lessons that we're learning through the series of deals gone bad are very important for everybody to really pay a lot of attention to. OK, so you can get it by texting word bad to thirty-one, thirty-onethirty-one or go to JoeMcCall.com/bad. All right, one more thing here. We are broadcasting this live as we speak on YouTube and Facebook. So if you're on YouTube and Facebook, say hello, tell us where you're from. If you got a question for us, type it in there and we'll be glad to answer your question. And if you're watching this later, please share it and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Some of you guys didn't even know I have a YouTube channel subscribed to the show. We released two to three episodes every single week and a lot of new content that is not even released as a podcast. Cool. I think we're ready to go. Esther has been on the show before. I asked her, how are you?

Ester: I'm doing good about you.

Joe: Awesome. We interviewed Ester back five, six months ago, Episode eightSeventy-six. And you did six deals that month. And we interviewed you and just talked about what you've been doing. And this was this is a month you grossed about thirty two thousand dollars in wholesale fees in the middle of the shutdown, which was how's business going for us?

Ester: It's still booming. I mean, it's still doing very good.

Joe: I see the deals on the white board in the back behind you.

Ester: Yeah, yeah. Everything is I'm chilling here. I'm chilling.

Joe: So, Ester, you've done how long you've been doing deals now?

Ester: I have been doing deals for like close to four years now. And so one of the deals, the very first deal was awesome. It was like everybody's like, oh, we made money. It was great. It was working. We were like, OK, let's go ahead and start looking for other deals. And so we we ended up finding out we didn't have any other leads. So we were running out of leads. So we were going ahead and we did that mistake like you were talking about continuing to look for leads and deals while you're doing whatever you're doing. So we stopped that. So we were scrambling and we started making offers on MLS and we finally found one and we got accepted was a HUD house. And I'm in the mentality well, we had the wholesale deal this wholesale it again. But I had a partner that said, hey, let's have the experience of flipping it. I was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know.

Ester: So anyways, he was like he convinced me. I was like, OK, let's go ahead and flip it. We got hard money low and we didn't realize all the fees that hard money lenders have, the points and everything. So we were like, OK, so this is really tight as far as money goes. So our friend, our partner at that time, he was saying, you know, he's got a transmission shop. So he was like, I've got a client that comes in every time he's in construction. Let's just get him to do the contract and to do all the stuff that we need on the house. So we really don't need that much. I'm like, okay, let's do that. So mistake number one was didn't have a contract with that friend. So we were like, oh, it's a friend, we'll do it, no problems. And he started working on it. And it was my husband, myself and my friend and his wife all telling this guy, hey, do this, fix that. And there was nothing planned. So basically the money that we had put into it for just the repairs just went out the door like that.

Joe: I was telling him different things to do and he was doing it right. But he's secretly adding all of this stuff up. There's no scope of work, no scope of work.

Ester: There was no plan. I mean, we just knew the bathroom needs to be fixed, fix it. It was nothing like planned. OK, you need to make sure you take the wall out, move the plumbing from this part to this. Make it where the bathroom was funky looking anyways, the way it was actually the way they did it, but anyways and so he had it was too many. What does that seems to me to TV chefs in the kitchen? Yeah, something like that. Where so it was something like that. So he had so many people telling him what to do. So he was getting all confused and he didn't know who he should be listening to.

Ester: So that was another mistake that we learned, that I learned because everything was on me too, because I was the one looking for deals. I was looking for dealing with the contractors. And I kept going to the contractors, the house every day just to make sure that the guys were actually doing the work. And the other thing that I found that on that particular deal, at the end of the day, everybody had magically a beer in their hand. So they were drinking beer at the end of the day, every day at the end of the day. So I was like I shut my mouth. I didn't say anything. But I now I know the legal ramifications on that stuff.

Joe:So what are the legal ramifications of?

Ester: Well, they could be going home drunk or they can be if they handled another tool on my property, I could have gotten sued or I have medical bills and I have to handle that. So I learned that was another thing that I had to learn.

Joe: So if you say I just want to ask you more about that, would you say don't let contractors drink on your job, on your property?

Ester: That's a big no. No, I never thought about that before. That's right. So, yeah, we were like, they're all Mexicans and there's nothing wrong with Mexicans. It was just they work with papers or anything, like they were just doing the work to do the work and get paid at the end of the day and go get the service of a beer. Let's drink something. So and we let that go because it was a friend that was doing all the fixing and everything. So we like I said, the stuff that I learned from that particular deal was A contract. B, you got to have the contingencies there have everything planned to every detail. And then the other thing was that the contract, because you got so frustrated with us, he left the so-called friend left.

Ester: So I ended up having to hire another contractor. But I did right with that one because I did have a contract with that one. And I did put in, OK, if you don't finish by this date, there's going to be a fine or so he understood. And then I told them, you're not going to get paid until the very last day, until we did a walk through of the house in any little detail. We had to make sure that was done. So we did learn on that particular one. But the realtor didn't do such a good job and put it on the MLS markets. And finally, I got the buyer for that property and she got the credit for everything when I brought the buyer to the property.

Joe:So you were selling it with a realtor?

Ester: Yeah, I was selling it with the realtor, doing it like everybody else does. And I should have negotiated that with the realtor I brought the buyer. Should be not six percent to you.

Joe:So I'm writing this down.

Ester:So I learned quite a bit in that. And we lost like maybe ten thousand, I would say about ten to thirteen thousand on that property out of our own pockets, not including the lost mills, the opportunity cost.

Joe: Right. During that time, all that time you spent on that deal, you could have been spending, finding other deals and wholesaling deals sticking in your lane. Right. Do you think you could have wholesale that deal and made money on it? Yes. How much do you think you would have made if you wholesale did?

Ester: I would have made maybe fifteen thousand on that property.

Joe: And how long would it have taken you to wholesale it?

Ester: I would say three weeks.

Joe: And how long did it take you to do this whole rehab and finally sell?

Ester: Four months. I know.

Joe: How frustrating is that?

Ester: Very frustrating. Very frustrating, because, you know, you could have done you realize all the stuff that you could have done and that time wasted and the fact that I kept going back and forth because I'm thinking if you're not there, they're not doing the work. So I had to go back and forth to the house just to make sure that they were working.

Joe: Since then, how many years ago was that? T.

Ester: That was three years ago.

Joe: OK, since then, have you done any other rehabs and fixed and flip properties? OK, good. Some people that is in their wheelhouse. They do make really good money wholesale, not wholesale fixing and flipping properties. But like in your experience, maybe you don't have enough experience to talk about this. That's fine. But like what advice would you give to somebody on when to wholesale it and when to rehab it?

Ester: Well, I mean, in that case for me, and my advice would be if the numbers were so tight wholesale, it don't deal with it, just wholesale it. And then if it was very good pricing, because we were kind of tight on it and we wanted to just experience it. So.

Joe: And you wanted to experience adult daycare. Yeah.

Ester: OK, so yeah. You hit it right in the. So that's why I was saying that the numbers are really good and you have a huge spread, then go for it, do the flip, but again, you know, have a contract with your contractor, have contingencies in place, and be very specific on what you want and just have one chief, just have one person to the contract.

Joe: So good people don't realize how big of a job rehabbing is. The TV shows make it look so easy. There are so many things that could go wrong. You've got way more money on the line. You've got way more risk liability. I mean, you have to be worried about letting them drink on the job even when the job's done. Do you have liability if they're sitting on your property drinking and then they were to leave or have an accident with some of the tools there or get an accident while they're driving away and they could find out that they were drinking on your job site, in your house and you let them do it. Or worse yet, your company bought their beer for them or something like that. So, yikes. Sometimes they say it's better to make a fast nickel than a slow dime.

Ester: You know, that is so true. That is so true. And I keep saying to myself, it's the same thing with when I get an offer from somebody and I and my husband says it's a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. So I keep saying, OK, let's just for sure we have an offer, let's go for that. And not just for maybe and hold off and so forth.

Joe:So I sometimes wonder if it's always better to make a quick nickel than a slow dime. I think it depends. I know some guys that do really, really well making slow dimes. But man, there's so many things that can go wrong during that time. You're making the slow dime. And here's the other thing I want you guys to think about. And Ester, I know you would probably agree with this, that same three or four months that you have that house, you could have wholesale 12, 10, 12 deals during that time. With that time that you were spending on that, you could have wholesale more deals and made a lot more money during that time as well. So this is why I'm such a big fan of fast cash strategies, wholesaling strategies, because there's so much less that can go wrong. And the cool thing is, if you would have bought this deal, you wouldn't have bought it if you wouldn't have been able to wholesale.

Ester: Right, right. That's true. And not only that is the stress that when I realized what I was doing, the flip the stress involved in that, I mean, oh, my gosh, I was like, I don't know how these flippers do it all the time that I couldn't handle all that stress. So I don't want I mean, if I do it, I would have to, again, hire somebody else to take care of that. And I just don't want to deal with that. Headaches and stress. I mean, the Olin is fun for me. It's fun. It's the ones with the next one. Yeah.

Joe: All right. So let's talk about a second deal that you had. This was a probate and there were seven siblings involved.

Ester: Yes, it was a mail out and postcards. And they called me up saying and it was a mail out to absentee owners. So they responded back and I spoke to them, created one particular person. I was talking to her and she was like, yeah, I want to sell it. And it's all of us. It's it belonged to our parents. It's now empty. Nobody even lives there or in that city. They're all in different cities. So, OK. Gave me permission to go to see the house. I saw the house. It's been sitting there for like fifteen years. And she goes, OK, well, there's seven of us. We all have to agree. I'm like, OK, I get it, I get it. And so we found out that I started talking to all the other individuals. We basically decided to do a Skype call. And so we had everybody there with their involved. And so everybody was saying, yes, except for one person, she would not appear on Skype. She didn't want to be a part of Skype.

Ester:So we were talking to her and over the phone and trying to convince her to get on it so we can all be in the same shows like she refused. So either way, and that day on the call, everybody, all six siblings decided, yes, let's do it, let's sell it. I'm like, OK, I'm going to send you all guys on agreements. Since somebody passed away, did you guys go to probate like, no. So, OK, we're going to have to do an affidavit, an airship. So basically the title companies send you guys after they get to be our ships. So we sent that out to the title company, yet we still needed that one other for the other signature. We finally got a hold of her again. And I spoke to her and she basically said, you know, I'm going through bankruptcy, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Ester: And basically she was saying, I don't think I should be just receiving because they were all going to be receiving like five thousand dollars. And I don't think I should be receiving this. I'm having really bad hardships, so I think I should be getting ten thousand dollars. So the only way that we're going to do it is if we did it this way. So it was me. And because it was I had a joint venture with somebody else but this particular property and they were saying, no, she's being greedy and she didn't want the other siblings to know about that. She wanted the extra five thousand dollars.

Joe: She didn't want anybody else to know.

Ester: That's the reason why she didn't want to go on. She was like, I know everybody's fine, they're well off, but I'm having hardships and I want to be able to, I deserve to have five thousand dollars more. Like screw that. And, you know, I was like, I want to tell everybody else. And I said, plus, if you wanted five thousand dollars more is going to show on the HUD that you're getting five thousand dollars more. And she goes, no, no, I would only sign if you and I have a contract saying that you give me five thousand dollars at the end of the end of the clothes. I'm like I guess my pride or whatever. And I was like, no, screw it, you're not going to have that nose. And it is like trying to be honest and transparent with everybody. And if I give you five thousand dollars, it's going to come back somehow or other it's going to come back and somebody is going to know about it. And so I let it go.

Ester: But it was a back and forth thing for like three months and saying that she would do it at first she was saying, yes, we'll do it with a thousand dollars more. And I'm like talking to my partner like it's a thousand dollars. We'll get this deal done after closing. We'll just give her a thousand dollars just to have her signature, basically. And she was like, so we agreed on that. And then like two weeks later, the girl came back and said that's when she came back and said, No. Five thousand. And we were like, no, she keeps changing and changing. And so that's when we let it go. And it was going to be a good spread because we're going to make all the both of us we're going to make twenty thousand each. So and our buyer was like, I want this property to see was going to make it into a duplex because it was huge. And so and so we were and he was fine with our forty thousand dollar assignment. He was fine with that.

Ester: Wow. But this I was like maybe I should have just let it go. But the fact that she was so money hungry like that, I was like I didn't want to deal with it and it just went everybody didn't. I told everybody I said basically she wanted more money and that just created everybody screaming at each other and screaming at this particular person. And I was like, I like to be, again, transparent with everybody. I don't want any any hiding because it's all going to come back. And that's what happened with that set of probate. So the deal fell apart and fell apart. It fell apart. So she would not sign it at all.

Joe: How long ago was that?

Ester: That was two years ago.

Joe: Do you know if they ever sold it or what's going on with the deal?

Ester: Because I went like maybe a year ago just to pass by that house and it's still vacant. Nothing's happening. And then just for the hell of it, I sent a message to one of the person that called me up and I said, What are you doing? I'm just calling to see how are you doing? To see if everything is OK. And she goes, No, everything's good. But we haven't sold the house. She still refuses. She wants now everybody in her family to give her a thousand dollars each. So we left it at that. That's what happened with that probate.

Joe: It's good for you, though, that you're willing to walk away from that. Looking back, though, that was a big you could have made gross forty thousand dollars assignment fee on that deal. Some people are saying just give her the five thousand dollars. What's the big deal? Do you still stand by your decision to walk away from the deal?

Ester: Because I do. Even though it's money on the table, it's money later. But I feel like something's going to come back, whether it's not on this particular deal. But karma is just going to come back somehow. And I don't believe that you should be sneaky that way because it's going to come back. Like I said, I don't I guess I maybe it's my pride, maybe it's my pride or maybe my battles. I don't know. Maybe I'm just too prideful. But I just I decided at that moment it's just let it go. I just being greedy that way. Yeah, that's my opinion.

Joe: This was a cash deal. So you don't have to worry as much about paying people outside of closing on a cash deal because of banks not involved. But still there's an element of you have to be have full disclosure and you can't be hiding things from other people in the transaction to a certain extent. Right? Yeah. Interesting. So the deal. Are you still following up, though? Do you still plan on.

Ester: Yeah, actually that so every six months maybe I should do it sooner than that, but every six months I'll go ahead and send her a message just to see how she was doing. Just checking up on her. If I know her son's name, I know what they do for a living and I know that they have little issues. So I kind of have to get that resolved. And I have this thing. So we keep that little conversation before going on. So she's very so we're all very, very good trounces. Just this lady decides not to do it. So but I do have another deal that I just remembered. It was a commercial deal. It was it was my very first commercial deal. And this guy called me up again from absentee owner mailers. And this guy said he's got a plaza, it's a mechanic. It's got a place where they cut tiles and it's got a strip joint.

Ester: So it's a place where they strip, a girl strips in the night time. So he was like. I wanted three hundred something thousand, and I got to find out what the rents are coming in and so forth, so I remember and he was very, very adamant that he wanted to sell it and so forth. So, look, it's going to be like 201 is what I can offer you. And he said after a day or two that I was speaking to him, he called me back. OK, we'll take it. So I went ahead and got it under contract and started giving that to different investors and this seller every single day. I've never had a seller this way calling me saying, hey, did you get a buyer for it? Did you get a buyer for it? I really need to sell. And I was like, OK, you that get it's doing negotiation. And we're still looking at a lot of people to like the fact that it's a place that has people are stripping. They really don't like that.

Ester: So anyways, every day was constantly doing that and I was getting a little irritated that he was calling me so many days, every single day like that. So finally I got a buyer that was basically saying, you know, I can't do this. He was saying basically we're in negotiations. And he was saying like maybe some 230, 220 or something like that. So it would have been like making maybe ten thousand dollars assignment fee. And so the seller figured out that I was putting it on the marketplace, looking at talking to other investors. Apparently, he was doing the same thing. And he said, I saw how much you were putting it out there. And I said, you're being greedy. Why are you putting it out there? Like, this is all about negotiations. No one is going to be paying what you're asking for. It's always give and take.

Ester: And so he basically said that I was being greedy and doing things right. And I was like, what is what is that? You said you wanted to add one, and that's exactly what you're getting. So I don't know where you're coming from. And the fact that it's got a strip joint, there are a lot of people don't like that ethically. So anyway, I let that one go again because that one was being money hungry. He was saying, again, you wanted to change the contract to the price that I was putting it out there. And I let that one go because, again, he was just I've never had a seller, like I said, that was desperate. And you can. And that's something that a lot of people, when you start doing this, you start hearing, OK, it's a motivated seller, but it's a motivated seller for money that's desperate for money. And that's not good.

Joe: That's interesting. Yeah. So you've got to be super careful to be willing to let it go.

Ester: And that's when I realized for that particular deal I had to let that go to that seller was money hungry, not just motivated to sell, but he was money hungry. And I didn't like that. I didn't like dealing with people like that.

Joe: One time I was advertising a rent to own home for tenant buyer and I found a really good tenant buyer. And she passed all of the prescreening, background checks and stuff that I did. I met her and her brother at a Panera or something like that. It turns out she was a stripper. You would have never known by meeting her, but her brother told me this is how she makes her money. And I didn't give it to them. It didn't work out. But there'salso something maybe with a with a business that is doing that kind of thing that that may not be worth getting involved with. Just, again, I don't want to call it, I don't like the word karma, but something like that kind of can come back at you in a bad way. Maybe I'm wrong, you know. So I'm looking at some of the comments.

Joe: Kenny says here you did the right thing. She's a greedy pig talking about the probate deal now. But Millie says, I would have given her the extra five K to close the deal. But you have to remember, that had been right for the other members of the family without them knowing that. And Ronald also says the same thing. So this is a judgment call. Right. But I think you might be able to sleep better knowing that it would have been fine to give her the extra five grand. But the rest of the family had to know. They should have known. And if they were OK with it, then, yeah, maybe that would be a good thing to do.

Ester: Yeah, well, she had kids, the one that one the five thousand dollars more kids and the fact that you get the extra five thousand, the kids are going to know that there's extra money. So I would assume and so I was like somehow or other is going to come back to the other brothers and sisters that she got more money. So I was like, you know, I don't want to deal with that just in case.

Joe: Good. All right. So let's talk about lessons learned real quick. I've written down some things. Don't ever stop your marketing. Always get leads when you're working this rehab deal you talked about at the beginning, you kind of stopped your marketing and that is the kiss of death in any real estate business, isn't it, to stop your marketing? You're not getting new leads. You may close that deal, make some money, but you turn around and your pipeline is empty and you can't it's not like a switch that you can just turn on and start pouring in again. It takes a while to build that momentum, doesn't it, getting those guys coming back in.

Ester: I like that saying that. You're saying you want marketing done despite yourself.

Joe: Yeah. Marketing done for you in in spite of cool. Oh, and somebody else here at a real good comic, Kenny said, I feel like if you would agree to five grand then it would have been seventy five hundred if you keep. On agreeing, giving what she wants, she would have wanted more.

Ester: Right. I totally agree. That's what that was my gut feeling, because when she went from one thousand to she was needed to four thousand dollars and all of sudden she wanted five. Now, I think she's going to end up going back more. I agree.

Joe: Another lesson learned. When you're doing rehab, you need to have one-point person for the contractor. You've got to have a written scope of work. Everything needs to be in writing to the detail, to the you know what. But to the net. What OK, be careful with scope creep. Scope creep is like where the scope keeps on creeping up and up. And if you don't have one-point person responsible for communicating with that contractor, it's easy for somebody else to come in and say, yeah, it's not a big deal. Just add this, change this. But that affects the budget. You've got to be on top of that. Don't let your contractors drink on the job, on your property. Now, the deal, you've got to have contingencies for every little detail in your work, in your contract. I liked what you said about having liquidated damages if they finish late.

Joe:So penalties if they finish the job late and maybe even rewards if they finish early. I've negotiated that with contractors before where I said, listen, we're going to do if you can't finish by this time, there's a penalty involved. And then they would say, well, if I finish it early, can we have a reward? I said, yeah, it's only fair. But having that in writing is so important. And you also said something there. Don't pay contractors until they get all the work done. That sounds simple, but so many people forget that now. Exactly. You also talked about you had a realtor help you and you said negotiate with the realtors for what happens if you bring the buyer, if you bring the buyer and that some of you may think you can't negotiate that.

Joe: But yeah, you can. If you bring the buyer, you can negotiate with that agent what they actually will get. Cool. Yeah. Always better to make a quick nickel than a slow dime. That's right. Maybe not always for everybody, because that's what they call that some kind of blanket statement. But I like that rule. Keep you out of a lot of trouble. Be willing to let go of some of your deals, especially when the seller is money hungry.

Ester: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it goes with your gut feeling unless you have a I mean, and people like I said, they forget that you're looking for motivated sellers. I think great. You've got one. But I mean, is it really motivated to what's the deciding factor? Is it because of the money that they're going to receive or or is it because they're getting rid of some emotional thing? Or when you get a seller that's money hungry, you'll know what I'm talking about. It's just desperation to get that money. And it's just. Oh, God, that's not good.

Joe: Yeah, good. All right, Esther, any other things that you would want to say? What kind of wrapping this up? What would be some of your biggest lessons learned from this? What would you tell people who are beginning here getting into real estate, investing, into wholesaling?

Ester: Well, just always have a plan. I mean, anytime you're getting into any business venture, you need to have a plan. You need to have goals and keep re analyzing as time passes by, like what I've done coaching with Gavin, with your partner and yourself, keep looking at what you've done, evaluated and adjust if you need to, but definitely have a goal and plan or where you want to go, because if not, you just likely do whatever it's really good.

Joe: Always have a plan, have goals, kind of starts. Would you say having that planned consequence of that is having a marketing plan which drives it back to that first thing we were talking about. Have a marketing plan so, you know, if your goal is to make 20 grand a month and wholesaling, you know how much marketing you need to do every single day, get it done for you in spite of you so that it just gets done, correct?

Ester: Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. If you don't have that, you're going to think, well, good.

Joe: Ester, I appreciate you so much. What market are you in, Esther? Tell everybody where you're at.

Ester: I'm in El Paso, Texas. Yeah. And I always tell. I always have this shirt when I met Gavin, a March. Now, I don't know if you see I always have this shirt that says Ester Buys Houses, my website and my phone number. And in the back of it, you always see.

Joe: Ester Buys Houses any condition, phone number?

Ester: Yeah. Yeah, I always have this on. And so, yeah, that's my market. El Paso, Texas. And I always get leads. And when I'm walking, doing grocery shopping. Yes. Or whatever, I forget that I even have it on. It's just a shirt to me and so you can be me, you can see me on Facebook or YouTube. Esther buys houses without the H.

Joe: OK, so go to Facebook or YouTube. Esther buys houses and cool people may have a deal in El Paso or in the surrounding areas and you want to partner with Esther on it or you might have a lead. This is a great way to tell this to beginners all the time. Find somebody like Esther who's already doing deals in your market, is doing what you want to do, and don't just contact her and say, hey, can I pick your brain? Can I take you out to lunch? I take you to breakfast and I have coffee. You just pick your brain and ask you a few questions. Don't ever do that. That's the stupidest, dumbest thing ever, right, if you're listening to this and you're in El Paso or you're somewhere else and you know of an Ester in your city, Go approach them and say, hey, Esther, how can I help you grow your business? How can I help you make more money? How can what kind of deals are you looking for? Can I go out and find these deals for you?

Joe: That is going to be the best way to get Ester to learn from people like Ester on how to do deals, what's going on in the market? What are the good title companies Ester talked about she has a good relationship with? Do you think if somebody just calls you Ester and says, hey, what's your title company? You don't know who they are, are you going to tell them maybe you will because you're nice, but like you will really be? Wouldn't you rather, like, help somebody who puts in some kind of effort to go find you some leads, find you some deals and maybe even says Ester, hey, you've got a bunch of old leads. Could you give them to me and I'll call them for you? I'll just cold call your old leads and we'll split the deal or something like that. Wouldn't you be more open and receptive to help somebody like that?

Ester: Of course. Absolutely.

Joe: Cool. All right, Ester, this has been really good. Thank you. Oh, yes. Someone here says, Millie, I agree. Offer a JV. So, guys, check out Ester. Ester Buys Houses at Facebook or YouTube or go to EsterBuysHouses.com and you spell your name E-S-T-E-R, There's no H, cool. That's sure appreciate it. And I would be it would be remiss for me to say if you want to work with me and Gavin, Gavin is one of the best real estate coaches in the business. I've been working with Gavin for five years now. We coach our clients closely together. If you want more information, they'll go to CoachJoe.net. That's an old website, but it's still forwarded to the new one. I think we have the new one is right. Here it goes. This is maybe a better one. REINetwork.com/coaching. Get some more information and check out what we did to help Ester. So, Ester, thanks again for being on the show. Appreciate it so much.

Ester: Thank you again.