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Dealing with probates and tax delinquents requires a little bit of care and finesse, which Jason Lucchesi from No Flipping Excuses, is happy to provide. He opens up about all of his tips for chasing down leads in this podcast, and how to navigate the difficult conversations you have to have with people as they’re dealing with the loss of a loved one, or losing their home.

Marketing himself to folks with quit claim deed, AOD, or deeds with the name “trust” on them are just a few of the ways that Jason finds probate leads. Most of the time these leads are older folks who are looking to downgrade from their big house after their partner has died. Jason’s built a relationship with local attorneys who know he’ll purchase a home quickly and fairly.

Jason shares the tools he uses to purchase data, and he points out that in non-disclosure states, this information may not be online. Building relationships with elder care professionals and county clerks help him work around some of those limitations.

Many times people who are selling off a house after death aren’t just trying to sell the house; they want to sell the contents of the house too. So Jason’s had to accommodate these kinds of sellers, but it’s been surprisingly beneficial for him.

Tax delinquencies are another tricky situation because many of these folks are on a fixed income with no hope of fixing their situation. Jason shares with me the kind of questions he asks them to determine if he can help them with tax assistance, the very stringent requirements of a tax payment plan, and how he helps homeowners find a better situation.

You might have to navigate probates and tax delinquency deals with thoughtfulness, but the high-profit margins make them worth your time.

Watch and Learn:

Listen and learn:

What’s inside:

  • How you can use LinkedIn to find real estate investors, and the job titles you should search for.
  • How to handle tax delinquencies with a bankruptcy attached.
  • What to say to a bereaved spouse about selling the house.
  • Using county records to find tax delinquents.
  • How to handle tax delinquency with a mortgage attached.
  • The importance of building relationships with eldercare professionals.

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcription:

Download episode transcript in PDF format here…

 Joe: Welcome. This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast.

Joe: This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. I'm really glad you're here. Hello again everybody. This is my second podcast today, so a lot of you guys right now watching on the Facebooks and the YouTubes you saw me just a few minutes ago and I want to say hello to you again, but I've got another special guest on this podcast today. His name is Jason Lucchesi and a lot of you know him already. And we're going to be talking about how to profit from really two special kinds of deals: probates and tax delinquents. There is a lot of money in these probates and tax delinquent deals and we're going to be talking to Jason about how to do this. But first, this podcast is brought to you by lendingfordeals.com. Lendingfordeals.Com my new preferred lender that will lend on all of your deals. You know, apartments, multi-families, single families, rehabs, bridge lending, buy and hold, fix and flip, et cetera, et cetera.

Joe: So, go to lendingfordeals.com. Lendingfordeals.Com, if you want money for your deals, they also do proof of funds and transactional funding and stuff like that. I'd really suggest you check them out. I'm going to give you one more thing to do. I have a book right here. I got you like my new microphone, by the way. Isn't that cool? I got a new book. It's called REI secrets and you can get it for free at reisecrets.com at least an inch thick. Yeah, you've heard me say, I wrote my other book here, Wholesaling Lease Options and I worked so hard on this book and I got it back from the printer and it was like a quarter of an inch thick. I was so discouraged and I said, next book I'm going to do, it's going to be a lot thicker and more manly. So I did this one called REI secrets.

Joe: Daily nuggets of real estate investing wisdom to get more leads and close more deals. You can get this book for free at reisecrets.com – reisecrets.com. Final final announcement. Please. If you're listening to this audio podcast right now and you like the show, go to Apple podcasts and leave a review. I'd really appreciate it. Just say, Hey, I like the show or tell me you don't like the show either. I don't care. Leave me a review, subscribe to the show. I'd really appreciate Apple podcasts and I'd be curious to know what is your favorite podcast player right now? Mine is something called Pocket Casts. The only problem is, with Pockets Casts, you can't leave reviews there, so you've got to go to Apple podcasts to leave the reviews. Also, we're broadcasting live right now on Facebook and YouTube, and those of you guys that are out there watching, if you're watching this live right now, like Trentwood is in the house, what's going on Trentwood?

Joe: You can comment right here and say hello and we'll give you a shout out. So if you're watching this on Facebook or YouTube right now, type in the comments. Say hello. Tell us where you're from and as I get Jason on here, you're going to have some questions. How do you find these probate deals? What are tax delinquent deals? How do you get that stuff? Where do you go? What do you do with these deals? Type those questions in right now into the comments in Facebook or YouTube, and I'll pop them up on the screen. We'll give you a shout out and I'll ask our guest this question. Cool. Does that sound fun? I hope so. All right. So, let me bring a Jason on here and there he is. Jason, what's going on? How are you man?

Jason: Hey, what's going on Joe? Thanks for having me on the show, buddy.

Joe: Glad you're here. I like your what do you call that sign in the background?

Jason: Oh, an autographed jersey of Mr. Lebron James.

Joe: Man. That's awesome. Yeah, that's really cool.

Jason: It was a birthday gift.

Joe: So, you're a Lakers fan now?

Jason: You know, I, I grew up in the Northwest Chicago suburbs, so I'm always going to be a Bulls  fan.

Joe: Oh, LeBron James. Pretty good dude. And it's amazing. Well, anyway, I won't go into there. It's real sad about Kobe Bryant and what a bummer that is. But let's talk about real estate, Jason. You know, we've known each other a long time. We bumped into each other several times at some big high-level masterminds. It's, I always love hearing your wisdom. You've been doing deals for long time. I remember when we first talked, you were talking about   how you were finding deals from LinkedIn. Do you remember those days? Are you still doing that?

Jason: We still use LinkedIn for finding deals.

Joe: Oh man, we should talk about that because no, people are probably scratching their heads  right now thinking you get deals from LinkedIn?

Jason: Oh yeah. Yeah. It's really good.

Joe: Let's talk about that for a minute. What'd you share? How do you find deals from LinkedIn?

Jason: So LinkedIn, I remember when you and I did the training and podcast. It was years and  years ago.

Joe: While you're talking, I'm going to look it up. Yeah. But it's crazy.

Jason: LinkedIn seen the exponential growth since the last time you and I did something. I believe the very first training was like in 2013 or something like that. And it's grown quite a bit as all social media has. And we go out there and we find real estate investors, we find homeowners, we find people, professionals that work at banks work at hedge funds and we're able to get deals directly off of there by just starting conversations with folks and seeing if there's something that we could do. We'd go into the LinkedIn groups, just like how Facebook has groups. LinkedIn also has groups and you can find people on there just as you would. And we find folks all the time, like, like specific areas. You could find geographical groups and you can find people in there that might have for say rental portfolios and they may want to sell off their whole entire rental portfolio. We've been finding those folks for years. And the great thing about it is not a lot of people are really charging in and doing that strategy on LinkedIn, Joe.

Joe: And so, one of the things we've talked about too is looking for the people who worked at the banks who were, what were the asset managers, what are some of the job titles that you would actually search for in LinkedIn?

Jason: So, loan workout officer, special assets manager, portfolio manager, asset manager. Like you just said, you're going to find a lot of those folks with those titles at the banks and  www.RealEstateInvestingMastery.com  4  we're talking the smaller banks, Joe, not like Bank of America's or the PNCs or anything like that. We're talking like state level and regional level banks. Those are going to be the ones that you can get into and they are going to be ones that are going to be potentially selling off some of their assets.

Joe: Do you ever use social media platforms like Facebook or LinkedIn to find the owners of  properties that you're trying to buy?

Jason: Yes.

Jason: Oh, talk about this. This is killer. Check this out guys.

Jason: Oh man, we, we do, yeah, we do that all the time. Like if we can't get ahold of somebody, more than likely they've got an account on Facebook or LinkedIn. So, we'll message them and we've gotten deals off of finding folks off of Facebook and just having a private message with them on Facebook messenger and we're able to get a deal off of there without even talking to the homeowner on the phone or in person. We just did it all through Facebook messenger.

Joe: Oh, I know somebody that does that with short sales to like notice the defaults and delinquents, you know, they can't call them. They're getting bombarded with phone calls and letters and stuff like that in the mail and they just go to Facebook and LinkedIn. Even if they find 10 people with the same name in the same city. Right. They're still messaging all of them and getting through. It's, it's crazy. I don't know why more people aren't doing it.

Jason: It's a great strategy, man. Like you could do all the skip tracing you want, but some folks might not be available and a lot of them are on Facebook nowadays, more so than LinkedIn to be honest with you. But if somebody is in a really tough spot financially, most folks are going to have a LinkedIn profile because they're trying to get a job, so they're going to be on LinkedIn as well, and you might be able to find them on there or without as many searches as you would on Facebook.

Joe: You want to hear something cool? Yeah, you find a way to do this. Let's create a product out of this. And so I heard of a guy doing this in Phoenix, he would post a, he would create a job search website, you know, and what he would do, all it was a front facing website and this may be unethical or illegal, I don't know. Maybe not. All right, but hear me out. I   thought this was just brilliant. You've created a front facing website that just said, you know, and he made it look exactly like monster jobs or whatever it was indeed or something like that. I think at the time monster was the biggest one, but may looked almost exactly like monster, but without the logo and it had a place on there, you know you're looking for jobs and it had a place for the name and a phone number and an email or something like that and they, they'd click okay, go. And then all it did was then redirect them to the actual monster website. All right. Now guess what? He had the data, he had the names, phone numbers and emails of people looking for jobs. Right. And he would contact them and say, Hey, you know, you're not trying to sell a house are you, or something like that. And you would get a crazy number of deals from that. Oh man. Have you ever heard, is that okay to do? Is that unethical or, so,

Jason: I don't know. I don't know. It sounds like a great way to get deals. I don't know from an  ethical standpoint anything or not, but I don't know

Joe: Somebody listening to this is going to say, Holy Smokies, that's a good, yeah, and I'm going  to do it.

Jason: A few folks are saying in good old Facebook and YouTube yet land it. Let's see what they're  saying.

Joe: So yeah, if you're, if you're listening to this right now and watching it on Facebook, YouTube, type in your comments, is that a good idea or a bad idea? Wrong or unethical? I don't know. In fact, the fact that I'm asking it means that probably is not a good idea. Right. But we're on the border. On the borderline. But you're redirecting them to the job site. Right. But you think about if someone's looking for a new job, they might be, you know, in a period of transition they might be have some motivation, have a, maybe they have some other properties they need to sell to get the cash from it. You know, there's somethings going on in their life where they're, you know, they're looking for a job. Somebody says here, very creative. All right, since you got our back SIS Shaneeka says, I think so. You know her, she's a good lady. I've had her on my show before. I said good old. No. Oh, I didn't hear that. You shouldn't have said that. Holy smokes, you're in trouble.

Jason: I am. I am in big trouble. I didn't mean I'm not calling you old. I don't even know how old  you are, but I don't even know why that popped out, Joe.

Joe: Oh, that was like, you know, good old boys. Yeah. You just like good old boys. Good old girls. All right. RJ Bates, we better stop talking about me. RJ Bates two great dudes right here. That's awesome. Nice. We got Denise from Los Angeles. I mean we've got some other, okay, good. Assist this thing. LOL.

Jason: Good. Hopefully I'm not in the dog out right.

Joe: She says LOL. We're getting some good questions here already about tax delinquents and probates. Keep your questions coming in and I will ask them to Jason here in just a second. Jason, go back and talk about how you got into real estate and then I'm going to ask you about what are you doing today.

Jason: So, I got into real estate out of dire need to do something other than going back into the corporate world because I was with Countrywide home loans. I was on their subprime division when everything hit the fan in November, 2007 I was like, Oh man, we're not gonna, we're not going to be in business much longer. So my wife luckily got an interview and landed a job to come back here to Indianapolis because the time we were living in New Jersey and we didn't like it. We didn't like the East coast really well, that particular part of the East coast. And I got involved with a training program and I just at that time, which was booming, was flip this house. And I'm like watching these guys do these flips. And I'm like, man…

Joe: The fortune builders guys?

Jason: What's that?

Joe: Was it the fortune builders guys in Connecticut?

Jason: Armando, it was the fortune builder guys. It was the guy from North Carolina, I believe.

Joe: Do you remember that guy? Yeah. Carolina. Yep. I loved that guy. His show was only on for  a couple of years and he just disappeared.

Jason: I know, I looked him up afterwards. He's still obviously doing real estate, but they tried giving him his own show and it didn't really last that long. But man, yeah, that was in the height of all of those flipping shows and I was super excited because I always wanted to get   involved. I had Carlton sheets course in high school and I always wanted to do that, but I lost track along the way with life and got into real estate early 2008 didn't close my first deal because I was trying to find my right niche and it took about probably close to eight months for me to do my first deal and…

Joe: It was better than me. That's better than me. It took me three years to do my first deal.

Jason: I was all over the place. I was trying to do this, that and everything in between. And I finally found short sales was, was my place at that point in time and we were just knocking them out left and right and really liked it, enjoyed it. And then obviously the market evolved, it changed and you know, you need to adapt when those things happen. And you know, ever since then we've been doing wholesaling, we've been doing tax delinquents. One of the things that's always been a staple is probate deals. Probate deals have always been, you know, really big for us and vacant homes, all that type of thing. So we're, we're mainly focused on wholesaling at this point and also building up our own portfolio for additional revenue that that's coming into the business.

Joe: No, you're in Indianapolis, right? Is that your main market right now?

Jason: So that is for certain deals that we're doing. But we also are doing stuff in Grand Rapids, Michigan some parts of Columbus, Ohio Louisville, Kentucky. So yeah, four markets that we're in right now. And we're also thinking about doing some other stuff in Northern Florida.

Joe: Wow. I remember one time you were doing in Michigan, weren't you buying houses super,  super cheap and then selling them on with owner financing?

Jason: Yeah, yeah. We've been doing, cause I was in Michigan for a little bit when I was with Countrywide and I really loved that area. Grand Rapids, it's such a nice little area. And yeah, we were able to buy houses, dirt cheap and give seller financing.

Joe: Are you still doing that?

Jason: Yes.

Joe: That's a interesting strategy. And does it have any drawbacks? You know, because you're buying these things so cheap, but you're, you're not putting anything into them, are you?

Jason: No, I'm not.

Joe: And then you're just turning around and selling them with owner financing.

Jason: Yeah. And on average we're getting refinanced out right around the three-and-a-half-year mark. So we're, we're collecting some really great revenue for about three and a half years.

Joe: So give an example deal of how this, this is working for you guys.

Jason: So most folks that come, well the properties that we advertise with seller financing, most of the time folks can't get approved for regular financing through like a bank. So we'll, we'll take a look at their whole entire scenario. And most of the time they're able to put a good chunk down and these houses are between 30 and 50,000 and they're putting down 5,000 to $7,500. So it makes us feel much more comfortable as the investor and we're giving them terms on the deal. But we're not, what we're doing is we're selling at a future rate. So you know, a $30,000 house will sell on terms for, you know, 45 $50,000, maybe more. It just depends on how we feel. The area is going to go from an appreciation model within like that three to five-year period. And what we're doing is we'll give them terms anywhere between 10 and 12%.

Jason: We obviously don't want to violate the high cost loan limits, not loan limits, but we don't want to violate HOPA by giving them, you know, unscrupulous rates and all that type of stuff. So most of the time it's between 10 and 12% and we are financing them over 15 years if not 30. What's that?

Joe: No balloons.

Jason: Uh no, 95% of them are no balloons. We've kinda gotten away from those. Just because most of the folks that we've been having, we looked at the past 24 months and we were looking at a couple of numbers and it was like 3.44 years that most people were refinancing out anyways. And we were, you know, happy with the returns that we were getting on our investment.

Joe: Now were these, are these properties, are they totally trashed or are they livable when you  buy them? Does it, how do you, what does it matter?

Jason: So most of the properties that we're finding, we don't have to do anything really. Two of them. And I say really because sometimes we'll go in, we'll, we'll do like a fresh coat of paint. We might have to do something with the floors, but for the most part these folks are moving in and they do all of the work to the property. So if they want to do something to, it's their property at that point they want to do new flooring, new roof, all that kind of stuff. That's, that's on them. So most of the properties that do come in, they are in livable condition. Either we get them through HUDhomestore.com. Either we're getting through a short sale, either we get them through probate, whatever lead source for getting them through, most of the time they're in great shape as it is.

Joe: Yeah. So you're not buying them straight off the MLS, you still got to get a good deal on  them. Right?

Jason: We do. We still have to get a deal on them. And not saying that you can't get deals off the  MLS, but most of our deals are off market for our seller financing deals.

Joe: Yeah, well there's a lot of opportunity. I love that idea too because you're buying nice solid homes and you're selling them to, I call them penalty box buyers, right? They want to get a mortgage, but they can't, a lot of times there's just self-employed, right?

Jason: That or some, they just don't have credit established. We get a lot of Hispanics that they don't have that credit established, but they've got a good chunk to put down. And the cool thing is we, we report everything with payments to all three credit bureaus to help them get established,

Joe: Which you can't do if they're, if you're a landlord, you can only do that if they're owner financing. Correct? Yup. They're building their credit and they're going to be able to show an on-time payment history. And then when they get their financing, it's not a new loan, it's a refinance. Does that make it easier?

Jason: Oh, it totally makes it easier because most of the time they're just doing a streamline refinance, no cash out. And those are, banks love those. And they'll do those all day long.   By the time they do the refinance with us, they're gonna more than likely be at like an 80% LTV. So banks love those. They'll do those all day long.

Joe: SIS is asking here: after three and a half years are getting a traditional mortgage to cash  you out. Is that right?

Jason: That is right. And we have established relationships with a lot of bankers and the areas that we're doing business. We also try and help them build up their credit during the process too. So if they do want to refinance us off, they can. Yeah. But yeah, they're going through, we try and recommend folks going through like local banks cause they're going to be a little bit easier to deal with than your bigger banks.

Joe: So are you borrowing private money or how are you taking these properties down?

Jason: Yeah, we're, we're doing it with private money.

Joe: So you're paying 8% maybe?

Jason: On these types of deals, we've established relationships with our private money lenders.  We're right around six and a half percent and no points.

Joe: Oh fantastic. Yeah. So you're borrowing money to buy it. Then you're, what kind of  cashflow are you getting on these deals?

Jason: So we're averaging right now, right around 11% interest rate and our terms are based over a 30 year amortization. And the terms that we're giving are based over a 15 year amortization. So we're, we're already making good spreads on the interest rate and also that we're doing an amortization schedule based over 15 years. So the cashflow is actually really, really good.

Joe: Any concerns or problems you have? Because in some of these areas, they're lower end neighborhoods. Right. And I've seen the, the local news stories before where they call them slum landlords, but they're really not even, they're not landlords. All they are is doing seller financing. Right. But when it gets in the local news that there's these people living in these houses and they're, you know, they have no heat and you know, things are real good at the beginning, but then later on when there's a camera there, you know, they're   complaining about these, these wealthy landlords that aren't taking care of their properties. Right, right. Do you have that problem at all if you, do you know what I'm talking about? Have you seen these guys?

Jason: I do, most of the properties we're acquiring and we stay out of d-class areas. So we really try and stay out of the war zone areas, the boarded up home areas. We're, we're trying to stay more in a stabilized area to where there's, there's job growth unemployment's low and you know, there, there is opportunity for people to have easy transit driving. But what we're trying to stay in, like the lowest of low that we'll go is like low grade like a C, C type community. And for that most part, Grand Rapids is still really good. And Indianapolis, there's great parts of Indianapolis, Columbus, there's great parts. Louisville, Kentucky, there's, there's, you know, D class all around the country and you just have to learn to, if you want to stay in D-class, then you're more than likely going to have high turnover, which means you're going to have to do foreclosures.

Jason: Since we've been doing this with seller financing, we've only had to do one foreclosure out of probably a few hundred. So we haven't had a problem in, in a a very long time. And the main reason is there was a death and that's why we had to, had to do it. They weren't able to come up with anything and they weren't able to catch up on the payments we tried. Then the great thing with us too, right, is we try everything we can to work something out because we're, we're not a bank. Well, essentially, we are operating as bank, but we treat people as human beings. So we tried everything we could and we actually did end up avoiding to have to go through foreclosure. We just did cash for keys. Yeah, we did a Dean Lou. So that was the worst that we've had to do. And to be honest with you, we don't have a lot of late payments either. That's another thing we check up once a month is late payments and you know, it's due at the first of the month and before you get a fee added on at the 15th of the month, we normally get all of our payments collected. I'd say 90% of them are collected before the 10th of the month. And then you've got those remainders that come in right at either the 14th or the 15th of the month

Joe: And a lot of times too their rent. I mean their payments are less than what the rent would  be in that area.

Jason: Yes, yes. And then they get, they get the, the feeling of ownership and not having to pay rent. And most of the time they get a bigger house compared to like a two-bedroom apartment.

Joe: Rebecca Virtue here it says Oklahoma City Metro. Best kept secret. Not anymore.

Jason: Yeah, I love Oklahoma City. O.K. sees a great, great market. You know our mutual friend  Corey Boatwrights there, I think he's doing some good business.

Joe: Oh, Corey Boatwright. Oh, what a dork. I'm just kidding, Corey. Everybody loves you Corey. But you are a dork. I'm just kidding. I love Corey. All right, so back to your business. So I just wanted to clarify like what kind of volume are you guys doing now on average per month or you know, what are some of the main things you're focusing on?

Jason: So the seller financing deals are really kind of, you know, our bread and butter and we're doing with right now it's probably around 65, 70% wholesale and the remainders are going to be our seller finance deals. So we're doing anywhere between eight, nine, 10 deals per month.

Joe: Nice. And about 60, 70% of them you're wholesaling? Yes. Who are you wholesaling them  to?

Jason: Right now, on our buyers list, we've got a ton of folks that are out of state. We've got California buyers, Hawaii buyers, folks in Australia and New Zealand, Israel. We've got folks from all over that are wanting to buy within those markets that we're in because the cap rates are great and they don't have to do anything. They're turnkey. We don't do property managing or anything like that, but we have people there. So if they do want to do the property management side, they can get involved with that. But we've got buyers from all over the place.

Joe: So what does your business look like right now? You're saying we; I'm assuming you have a team, is your main operations in Indianapolis and you just, you do marketing in all these different areas or cities that you're in?

Jason: Yeah, so the team and I, my good friend, best friend I have known since fourth grade, he's here and my attorney is also here too. He's part of the team. And then we've got individuals in those other markets. We typically have a wholesaler and a real estate agent in those other markets that we're doing business in. And those other markets do. We have property management for some of our out-of-state buyers.

Joe: Okay, so all the marketing comes out of Indianapolis though? Yes. Cool. So let's talk about marketing. All right. You were talking about before we got on the show here, tax delinquents and probates, and those are some of your best deals. Yup. Let's talk about probates first. What is a probate lead?

Jason: So probate is a probate lead is where somebody passes away and it goes through probate court and the executor of the estate, there's going to typically be one. Now, if nobody has a will and somebody wants to come and contest that property, maybe it was mom or dad's and they didn't have a will set up, they'd have to come and contest that at court to be able to get the executor, the executor-ship of that property. So when somebody passes away, depending on how they have their estate set up, it's going to go through probate. Now, most people when they hear probate, they think, okay, I'm going to go after probate deals. But what they don't know, and what we could talk about here in just a little bit, that there's a, there's a whole slew that people are missing when it comes to deals when somebody passes away and that's when people set up their estates correctly and there's a trust.

Jason: Maybe they set up something else and it doesn't go through probate, which is public record. So we have relationships with attorneys and we've built those relationships by showing them that we could close on properties that are referrals from, you know, individuals that have passed away and the executors just want to get rid of the properties. So we're not only going after individuals that have recently passed and it's public record through probate, but we're also finding attorneys that, you know, work with setting up wills, setting up their, basically after somebody passes away, setting up their estate where it's easier on the folks that are the descendants and can quickly do whatever's needed on the property or whatever's on the, on the property.

Joe: Do you ever market to 'em like recent quick claim deeds and maybe properties that are,  that are named that have the word trust in the name, the owner's name?

Jason: Yeah, so though, and I know this term is probably going to be different throughout the country, but AOD – affidavit of death, we do find those folks quite a bit to where maybe the husband passed away and the spouse is still alive. Typically, what's going to happen is that they're going to do a quick claim deed by showing proof of a death certificate and they're going to do a quick claim deed. So we are going to be able to see that and we will contact that, that individual, and most of the time, Joe, these folks are older, late sixties seventies and now they've got this big house all to their selves and most of the time they are wanting   to sell. They're wanting to downgrade or maybe go to like a senior housing facility and do stuff like that as well. One of the things too that we're working with is individuals at those senior housing facilities. They're the elder care's that take care of finances for them. Like the executors of the estates will sometimes, allow these individuals to make payments for certain items. So we also build up relationships with these elder care individuals, the professionals at these facilities. And we found a lot of great deals that way as well.

Joe: Is there a, I'm looking here at ListSource. Yep. And what's one of your favorite list  providers? Data.

Jason: We purchase data through yellowletterscomplete.com.

Joe: Oh, that's a good resource. Yellowletterscomplete.Com. Used them before.

Jason: Yeah, we've, we've noticed and we've tested out tons of different data providers. They've been very accurate. Not saying that other providers aren't because we do use list source as well for we use them for calling cash buyers as well. But we've seen a great deal of success when it comes to using them for finding specific data now and nondisclosure States it's going to be really hard to get probate data and we're in a nondisclosure state so you could either, pay somebody to go to the County recorder and go to the probate office and get that information for you. Or you could go there yourself, but most of the time it's not going to be online. You can do that. You can have somebody go down and get that information for you. That's normally what we do is we're, we're busy so we just hire somebody to go and get those records for us.

Joe: Man, I just went to list source right now. Went into one particular county I do a lot of business in. Yup. Did a search for trustees only trustee owned only, right? Yep. 50% or more equity or unknown equity. Length of residence 10 plus years or unknown. 24,000 single family homes too. Oh wow. That's a lot. That's a lot. That is a lot. Do you think you might get a deal from that? Okay. You send, you send 20 now there may be, there's you filter out three or 4,000 of them, right? You mail 20,000 postcards, that's going to cost you 8,000 bucks. 9,000 bucks. Yep. All right. I'm just looking at some numbers here.

Jason: Postcards. How much are you getting your postcards for?

Joe: 42 cents. I had it in there. So the cost, 8,500 bucks. All right. To send 20,000 postcards and if you get you probably with this kind of a list cause nobody's mailing to them, right? So you're always going to get a little better response rate with that. Yup. You're going to get about a 1% response rate, I'm guessing, right? I'm not very good with math. I always went to public school. 200 calls. Holy smokes. And let's say you did, let's be conservative and you need 50 leads to do one deal, four deals out of that. Would you spend eight or nine grand in marketing for four deals?

Jason: Yeah. And even if you made 15K as an Average wholesale, we're talking 60K. 60K spend  eight grand, make 60K sounds like a no brainer to me.

Joe: Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. And that's just list source. Okay. That list would have caused me a little bit, the cool thing about using lists, I mean a direct mail provider like what you're talking about, the yellowletterscomplete.com there's also yellowletters.com, Yellow letterhq.com. All good companies. A lot of times you can get lists from them at really deep discounted prices cheaper than what you can get on your own. Right? Yup. We pay about 3 cents per name I think, but that's cool. Yeah. So people should look into that. The people should look at finding a trustee owned properties. Maybe, you know, in your list of marketing, pull out the ones that have the word trust in the owner's name and yeah, that's really cool. All right, so what, what do you send to probate deals?

Jason: So we send a letter or what do they do with my sheets over here? I, I just had them out and we, we send out, let's see here, I just had it out. I just had it out for you too. I don't know what the heck, but normally what we send is the first letter that we send off is a, is kind of like a sympathy type letter. So it's going to be a little bit longer. I see it over here one second and I've got it and I'll show it to folks. So we send this off so it's a little bit longer letter, right? But it's, it's a way to kind of have that, that human connection. And we really like sending that letter. It normally gets us a 17 to 19% response rate from folks. Wow. And we send it off to an, a nontraditional envelope as well. And what I mean by that is we're going to send it off in like an invitation style envelope and we're going to tuck in the back flap instead of actually sealing it and we're going to not use a computer generated stamp.

Jason: It's going to be a regular posted stamp. And that typically, you know, helps out with getting us a little bit higher response ratio as well. So that the letter is just offering some, some sympathies and all that kind of stuff. If there's anything that we can do, like one of the   parts is specifically I'm able to offer a quick cash purchase of as his properties for fair market value. So we are letting them know what we're looking to do and most of the times to Joe most folks don't understand is these folks don't want to just sell off the property. They want to sell off everything that's in there too. So personal property as well. And we've made deals to where we've, you know, bought the house and inside the garage was, you know, this nice Honda accord and we'd take the Honda accord after it's been deeded over to us and we go sell it at CarMax.

Jason: And most people don't realize this, but you could go sell the car and you could get a cash offer right then and there at CarMax. And it's actually pretty reasonable compared to like a Kelly blue book. On one deal, we were able to do that and we got $12,000 just from selling the car. Wow. Really? Yeah. We've done that multiple times where they want to sell stuff. You know, one of the things was somebody just wanted to sell everything in the house. We found these old cars that were made from like the forties and fifties like toy cars and they were still wrapped in the original packages and we were able to get a few hundred dollars for, for them and there was like 40 or 50 of those cars. So we're able to make a, a good amount of money just off of some of the personal items that want to be sold in the house as well.

Joe: That's so cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then you follow up, you send more letters after that  initial letter.

Jason: Yes. So one of the ones I'll show people, hope they're not giving away too much. So this is the next one is it's, it's basically saying, I'm, I'm surprised I haven't heard from you. I'm still interested in buying your property. And it's just, it's real, real basic stuff, right? Yeah. But that's the follow-up we do and we wait, we wait a good solid seven days before we send the next letter because we want to take all the people off that called us. They're were either like, Hey, I'm not interested, or the folks obviously that are, that are in our pipeline now and we're working on a follow-ups or offers or both at that point. So we send that out about seven days apart.

Joe: Okay. A lot of people are worried about offending or making somebody really mad or  something like that. How do you handle and deal with that?

Jason: That does happen. I'm not going to lie. There was one time I was calling somebody and her husband just passed away and I felt like the biggest jerk in the world because it was really   recent. It was like less than 60 days and her husband died unexpectedly and she was so pissed that I called her and that was probably out of all of them that we've been doing for over 10 years now. That was probably one of the hardest for me to do. You get people that are upset that you call. But you know, we, we keep them in the queue and we'll follow up with them after the dust has settled after like a month or so. In this particular case, the woman that was really upset with me we, we followed up with her three months later and I was just like, Hey, I don't know if you remember me or not, but I just want to call.

Jason: I'm so sorry for the conversation we had three months ago. I'm the one who called you and I just want to let you know, I'm sorry about that. We were just calling to see if we could help out because I've, I've gone through these myself with family members passing away and I, I knew, you know, once we started talking it was, it was really sensitive and you know, I knew you were really upset so I just, I didn't want to follow back up with you too soon. And then we ended up talking and she ended up telling me that she more than likely it was going to need to sell the house because she wasn't going to be able to afford the taxes. He was the one working. So we ended up being able to do something with her. So it's just really about how you talk to people and yes, you're going to have, this is just kind of, this is almost similar to short sale. You, you can't be like over the top pushy with them. They either losing their house or they've lost somebody very close to them. So you can't just be, you know, pushy with them and just expect that they're going to drop everything that they're doing just to talk to you.

Joe: A lot of people hold onto these properties too for a long time. The death, the house may sit  vacant for a year while they're trying to figure out what to do with it.

Jason: We, we had ones where the house was vacant for two years and a, the woman, the daughter was still paying for electricity. They're still paying for the house to be heated. And I added it all up. I'm like, you know that you've spent within the last years with taxes, paying the utility bills, all of it. You've spent a nearly $8,000 and the house is just sitting there vacant. And I'm like, why? Why do you want to do that? And at the end of the day she ended up selling us the house because she needed to get rid of it. She was tired of going over there. Tired of doing the lawn care. Oh yeah, you're right Joe. Some people just hold onto the properties from sentimental value.

Joe: I know. There's a house I always drive by every day and there was an old lady living in it and she, I'd always see her walking around in her front yard and getting the mail or doing   landscaping and whatnot. I've not seen her in a couple of years. And the property is still vacant, you know, it's just kind of, it's kind of a bummer. But anyway, do you do any cold calling on probates?

Jason: We do. So I like sending off one letter first and then we'll follow up with them. And, and just see if they received the letter. That's kind of our icebreaker on the phone. But we use a, we use mojo dialer for our dialing. Yep. So the team will use that for, for reaching out to the list and we'll you know, just follow up with them from that standpoint too. So we're doing direct mail follow-up and we're also cold calling and texting. Okay, cool. What are the, what are some of the tools you use for the texting? So most people probably aren't going to get, be able to get this one just because we use infusion soft for this one. It's a FYF and it's a fix your funnel. Fix your funnel. Yeah. Yeah. I've never heard anybody doing that for real estate deals. Yeah. We, we love their platform. It worked out really well.

Joe: By the way, if you're listening to this, okay, you're thinking fix your funnel. I'm going to go look at that. I wouldn't recommend it. There’re easier tools out there you got to have, and there's better tools out there then fix your funnel if you don't have Infusionsoft.

Joe: You're using infusion soft as your CRM. Really?

Jason: We do use or we like using fix your funnel and we do use, do you use it to a capacity for a CRM but not as like our main CRM. We're still utilizing, you know, some of the things with Podio and whatnot.

Joe: By the way, you should check out REI simple. I white labeled freedom soft and it's amazing.

Jason: Freedom soft is quite amazing. We're transitioning over there. We talked to Rob and we're  going to be moving over to freedom soft, simple.

Joe: Well I like REI simple.

Jason: I know that is a good, that is a good.com.

Joe: Well I only, well I white labeled it and customized it for lease options cause that's my main course but it's pretty cool. All right, somebody, we've got some questions here. I'm going to start asking and I want to ask you to just in a minute here about your tax delinquents   and what you're doing there. So Shaneeka asks, how do you skip trusts? Are you doing that?

Jason: So we don't and we've tried. So the thing I'll tell you SIS is trust, have a protection over them to let you know who the actual individuals are that own that trust. So you could potentially find out who the actual trustee is and then you could, you know, get the information for that person and talk to them and see if they could, you know, get you to the actual owners of record from that standpoint. But we've had a tough time with that just because trusts are tough to crack. So, you know, I would recommend sending off direct mail to them and seeing if you could get anybody to call you back from there. But getting them skip traced and we have tried it through TLO and TLO in my opinion, is one of the best tracing services. They are very, very pricey, but it's, it's really tough. I don't know what your experience has been with the Joe, but

Joe: They're hard to get. Yeah. You have to answer their questions the right way to get approved by them. Well, there's a lot of other good services out there to get. This is a good skip tracing for sure. You can just skip tracing inside of freedom soft as well. Okay. So we've got some tax delinquent questions, but first I wanted to ask you about skip tracing LLCs. I was thinking about this. Do you just do that in house or do you, do you outsource your skip tracing of LLCs?

Jason: We, we outsource that. Normally we send like we send off like a bulk amount so we will get that back and getting the LLCs back is much, much simpler than the trust we normally always can get who the managing members are or the officers.

Joe: Can you share the service you're using for LLCs?

Jason: Uh so yeah, we just found somebody off of upwork.com

Joe: Oh, I was going to suggest Fiverr. Holy cow. I went to Fiverr the other day. I did a search for  skip trace LLC and I found like 50 people there that will do that for you.

Jason: And you know, the crazy thing is they all have access to like TLO. Yes. And all the major great softwares out there. There’s another one that they have access to. Forget the name of it off the top of my head, but TLO is the main one and that's great. And it's super cheap too.

Joe: Oh yeah. So you can get, you can find guys on Fiverr and Upwork that can do your skip tracing for you. Pretty insane. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about tax delinquents cause I'm getting questions here about that. Sure. You were telling me something really cool the other day of what you guys are doing with tax delinquents. You're not just sending the marketing to, Hey, do you want to sell your house? You're offering to help them do what? This is pretty cool.

Jason: Tax assistance. What does that mean? Tax assistance is where we're sending them off a letter and the letters letting them know that they can qualify for a partial amount that we can help them with on their taxes. And when they call us, basically what we're doing is we're asking them canned questions. And what I mean by that is we're going off of a script that's been tested and proven to be able to get them to open up and tell you everything that you need to know about their, their property, their financial situation. Everything that you need to know in order to either approve them for tax assistance or give them a denial. Now, from doing this now for a while and having my partner do this for more like many years compared to me, what we're seeing is about 95% of the people that are coming through and telling us everything, 95% of them aren't able to be approved for funds to help them out with taxes.

Joe: Who're doing that, by the way, who's, who's giving them the funds or to get their taxes  caught up.

Jason: So we're giving them a parcel amount and it's going to be anywhere between like 15 to $25 that we can approve them for. It's not like a gigantic amount, but you've got to think about it like this. We're the only ones that are offering them any type of help. They're not getting any help from the County, from the state from anywhere else. Nobody's calling and reaching out to them and saying, Hey, I'm going to give you 15, 25 bucks, and we're talking to several people about this. So it's not just like, Hey, it's 15, $25. We do get some folks that get a little upset, but we do have folks that are also very appreciative and said, Hey, I'm able to get groceries this week because you guys are helping me out.

Jason: This is, this is such a blessing. So I want you to $25. Yes. What does that do? I don't know. I'm confused. So, so with the people that we are approving, they're in a situation where they're going to be able to fix the, the back taxes and that we know what they're able to do. So let's just say the person's behind 4,000 bucks and they have, you know, the 4,000 bucks. Well, what we can do is come in and help them out a little bit by giving them a 15 to   $25 a credit paid towards their taxes. And that does, I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but for a lot of those folks that, that means the world to them because they had to borrow a lot of that $4,000. They had to take cash advances, they had to maybe sell some investments in order to get that $4,000.

Jason: A lot of them are in financial situations to where they need that help. And most of the time, yeah, we can help them now, but down the road they go back into a problem and then they'll need us to, to sell the house. So it's building up the rapport initially and you know, we, we let folks know that, you know, we're not going to be able to pay all of your taxes. It's a, it's a partial tax payment that we're able to help people off with because we can't just help one person with, with everything. We try and spread it out to where we can help. Many people. Okay, so can you, are you offering to help them negotiate with the County or the state so you, you can't negotiate the taxes? Taxes are going to be unable to be negotiated with the County.

Jason: Most of the time from the people that we've talked to, especially that are in a denial state with us is they've tried the payment plan with the County and for folks that don't know this, you could get on the payment plan one time. If you screw up one time, you're never going to be able to do a payment plan again with your County. It just, it won't happen unless you move, but they will not offer you that help ever again. So most of the folks are completely tapped out. They've asked friends, they've asked family members, they've tried exhausting every source to try and get the funds. And most of the people that we talk to are on a fixed income and they don't have any savings. So they're, they're in a situation that's not going to be fixable. So I mean, we offer them the opportunity for us to come talk to them in person about their property and we're offering them a solution to pay off the taxes and buy the home.

Jason: And the other thing that we're doing too is we're offering to help them get a placement into another place because most of these folks are older and they just, they, they need somebody to really help them. So a lot of the times we're helping these folks find new housing that's affordable and low maintenance and they can move in really quickly and we can, we can help them out. They're either going to a senior living facility, either maybe getting like a condo. We're just helping them out in several different ways to where, Hey, we're not only going to be able to pay off your taxes, but with the money that you're going to receive from us, you could go and buy this condo. You're not going to have to worry about the lawn, you're not going to have to worry about this or that. You'll be good to go.

Jason: You'll have this, you'll have some spare cash, a leftover as well. So you can have some money in the bank just in case. The problem, you know, might arise down the future.

Joe: So the cool thing about this that's unique is that you're not just, you, you're trying to offer to help them fix the tax delinquent problem. Yup. And some of them you do help, some of them you can't. And then you buy their house. What you are helping them. I buy their house. But like your message to them is different when you're first approaching them, isn't it?

Jason: Yes. We're not coming off right off the bat saying, Hey, we just want to give you money for your property and pay off your taxes because you know, they'll, they have 20, 30 of those letters on their counter. But they ended up calling us.

Joe: Yup. That's good. Some questions that we got from folks here, and this is from Denise, I'm just going from the top down. Currently, I have props stream and they have tax delinquents. I'm trying to figure out when liking for tax, when looking for tax delinquents, do I need to approach the seller before home goes to auction?

Jason: So prop stream is a, is a great data platform. The one thing I would tell you is there the, when it comes to tax and liquids, you've got to have the most accurate data possible. And that data that is off of there is not going to be the most up to date. It's not going to be the most accurate. It might be somewhat stale. So I would recommend that you get the data yourself. And it depends on your County, right? So you know, if like say here for, for Indianapolis, the largest County in the state is Marion County. So let's just say you call them. Normally what they're going to do is they're going to send you a list and it's going to be on PDF. And what we do is we use Fiverr for somebody to take that PDF file and put it in Excel for us and we're not going to contact all of them.

Jason: So we might have a list of 11,000, right? We're not going to send off to all 11 thousand because the people that are below $4,000 on back taxes, they're more than likely in a spot where they're going to be able to fix it. We're contacting the folks that are $5,000 or more behind, and we're, we're contacting people in residential properties. So you're going to be able to identify if it, if there's an R or a C. The R is for residential the C is for commercial at that point. And you're going to contact those individuals. The other thing as well that we do is we have a one year redemption period. So we're going to contact people during the   redemption period. So we normally contact folks six months before the property is stolen from them. And they, they, they're out of luck now. They don't get anything.

Jason: So we're, we're contacting those individuals at that point in time to where there's about six months left and we're getting, that's why we're able to get, you know, low thirties to mid thirties as far as like somebody contacting us from the, the documents that we're sending to them. So it's really a crazy response ratio. So it's, it's right around, you got to figure out what the redemption period is within your County, within your state. Most of the part of their, they're going to be about a year, some are two years, so might be a little bit longer, but you don't want to contact them before the auction because at that point some folks know how to really use the system and they use it to their advantage. So we contact folks six months prior to the house just being ripped out from underneath them and then they don't get anything. So we, we know that they're in a really bad spot. Most of those people are, are not a position that's gonna correct itself. Good.

Joe: We've got a question here talking about what you just said from I shoe, how do you deal with the massive data in a PDF format and convert it to CSV or Excel to make the data parsing available and like you said, I've used Fiverr before or networking, find people to do that. And then one of the things that in one of the counties that I was doing this with, they didn't even give you the address of the, it just had the tax ID or the parcel ID. Yup. For that property. Well then I hired somebody else on Fiverr or Upwork to take this spreadsheet of 20,000 property tax IDs and go to the County website. Cause the County website allows you to search, excuse me, the County website allows you to search by tax ID and that opens up another page that shows you that owner's name, all the information about the properties I fired. I hire. There's one guy, it took about two weeks to do because like they can't do it all at once. Right. You overload the servers, they get flagged and banned or whatever. But the guy was able to take this data from an old photocopied PDF, right to a spreadsheet from the spreadsheet crosscheck all this stuff and give me all of the detailed property history, prior sale owner information taxes that were owed when you know, this is amazing. All of that for a couple of hundred bucks.

Jason: Yeah, it's totally worth it too. Once you get that data you've got to really, and I saw how their list stacking, we do stacking as well. We try. That's why how we could take a an 11,000 list and send off to 600 people because we try and stack motivation levels to that list and that's how we're able to get, you know, a 30 to 33% response ratio cause we're stacking motivation levels.

Joe: Very good. Good question from Denise here. How do you handle tax delinquents with  bankruptcy's attached?

Jason: So they're going to be able to halt the house from being taken from them until the bankruptcy is completed. So either it's a seven or a 13. It's really going to depend on when that bankruptcy is going to be discharged or if they want to sell the property. And let's just say, because most of the properties too Joe that we're going after, they don't have a mortgage. These properties are mortgage-less. There's no debt associated with them just besides the taxes. So if somebody's going into bankruptcy, it's more than likely they have a mortgage and they also have some additional debts that they need help with in order to have the bankruptcy be approved. But if they are wanting to sell the house, and let's just say the house doesn't, maybe it's at, let's just say it's got 50% equity in the home, we can come in and we could offer still a cash offer and then at that point the trustee would need to take it to the judge in order for the judge to approve to have that house taken out of the bankruptcy in order for us to execute the sale of that home.

Jason: Yeah. And that would be a little bit, depending on the individual that you'd be talking to the trustee, it could be a lengthy process, three to six weeks maybe, depending on the individual.

Joe: Good. Denise asked another question here. How would he handle tax delinquents with a mortgage attached? Do you do a subject to or wraparound owner finance or something?

Jason: So it depends on how much is left. So if we do the same scenario, 50% equity, we're not going to do seller financing with those folks because they are showing us that they can't afford the taxes. So they're in a position to where they're more than likely going to default on us again. If we have another property that's a little bit less for them from a expenditure stand, like a monthly expenditure standpoint, we'll play some or we'll suggest, Hey, we've got this other property. If we see that their situation can be fixable and they could, you know, make the payments on time, they could do taxes on time, then we'll talk to them about it. But we have to find out what brought them to this point. And there's tons of scenarios to where some people just have distressed positions and they need help. So we just want to try and find out how we can help out and give them a win-win solution from that.

Joe: Okay. Very, very good. The other TLO competitor was LexisNexis. Is that it? Yes. And  accurate? Accurate, yes. I've heard of both of them. Yeah.

Jason: Lexisnexis and accurate. Yep. Those are two other ones.

Joe: Brett. Great info guys. Oh, awesome. Matt is asking here the web, did this guy build a web scraper to pull data on the County site? Yeah. So define those guys. Just go to Upwork five or say you gotta be careful to how you post the job. Like I've had jobs rejected when I said scrape data off that Craigslist, you know, so you need to rephrase it and say, well, right now, first of all, I would say go to go to Fiverr and find somebody that's already doing it. Yes. But you know, I posted an ad one time that said I need, I need somebody to build a software that will gather data from a website, I think is how I phrased it, or something like that. And I, you know, I've got a ton of people applied and anything that you want scraped from County, I've even scraped counties that had, that were nondisclosure States.

Joe: You can, Oh yeah. And, and what we did was you could search by like they let you search individual for yourself. Right? So I, but you have to put in the last name. Yup. And so I, I've hired a scraper to put in you and you have to have at least three letters of the last name, right? So I had somebody go in and build a scraper that scraped AAA and then AAB and AAC all the way through all possible three letter combinations to ZZZ. Oh my gosh. So when they did a search for SMI for Smith, right? There would be 10 pages of all of the Smiths, but this scraper then would go in and scrape all the information from each of those Smiths. It was insane. And again, it was another one of those couple of weeks later cause they have to do it slowly. Right. I had a list of 20 something thousand, a smaller County in Kansas.

Joe: Oh geez. And I could get all kinds of crazy information from this and it only costs me $75 to do this thing. Oh man. Insane. That's totally worth it. Yeah. This was probably, this must've been like five years ago, but it can be done. That's crazy man. So they did every three. I don't know how many three letter combinations there is. There's, there's probably some formula for that. There has to be, that would take so, so much time. Yeah. The guy built this scraper thing that did it and it was, it was pretty cool. Don't ask me who it was cause this was five years ago. I don't even know how to find that guy. Cool. Jason, how can people get ahold of you? Do you still run the RiA in Indianapolis?

Jason: So right now we're, we're trying to find a new location. So right now, so we've got INRIA and we are in central Indiana. So right now they're doing monthly meetings. My attorney   and the one of the other individuals that's on the board named Steve Richards. Oh, Steve. Yeah, Steve. So my attorney and well he's the one that founded INRIA right now we're just doing the monthly meetings online, but we are going to be finding a new location here soon.

Joe: Good. And how can people get ahold of you? What is, what was your website?

Joe: So, our websites noflippingexcuses.com.

Joe: I'm writing this down right here. No flipping excuses Dot com. Now tell me if I spelled this right cause I did it wrong last time. That is correct. Not good. No flipping excuses.com you've, Oh, you've got a couple of really good books. Forgot to talk about this. You're donating all the profits from one of your books. Yeah, let's talk about that.

Jason: So Flipping Out Over Probates, and so what I did, Joe is flippingoutoverprobates.com and goes right to the Amazon page. And this, this is a deep dive book that really dives into probates. My attorney that I talked about, Matt Griffith, he is on here as well and gives you a bunch of legal stuff and trust me, I've had to pay him a considerable amount of money over the years. And the knowledge in here that he drops is really good, but all of them, all of the money that is generated from this book is going to a couple charities. One, RJ that was on here before, it's actually his 501 C3. It's Beat Kids Cancer. Wow. And it's a really, really great cause. And the other one is Veteran's Best Friend Indiana. So we're helping out veterans and we're helping out kids with this book. And I just, I wanted to do something different with the book, you know, this was my third one and we wanted to do something completely different and try and help out. And Joe, I know you're going to be helping us out with with that as well. And I appreciate you having me out here to discuss it and hopefully we can get some people to buy the book, learn how to do probates. And in the process they can know that their book purchase is towards two really great charities.

Joe: I just bought it. I just bought it. I went out, I just went to flippingoutoverprobates.com. Took me to the Amazon page. I bought the Kindle version of it. Nice. Well thank you. Yeah. Cool. All of the profits go to these two charities to help cancer – kids with cancer specifically. And the other one was veterans.

Jason: Yeah, it's Veteran's Best Friend Indiana. Now, we've all have heard about, you know, the, the 22 suicides that veterans are doing and that's daily. What we're doing is we're trying to  www.RealEstateInvestingMastery.com  27  lower that drastically by placing them with a companion dog. And these dogs are being trained, the dogs are trained to, the cool thing about it too is the dogs are being pulled from shelters and they're being matched with a veteran and the dog gets trained to help this individual out. And what we've been seeing is drastically lowering suicide rates. Main reason why is it's getting the veteran out of the house to walk the dog. It's the veterans taken the, the dog to like a dog park. They're sparking up more conversations with other people that are, you know, they have dogs as well and they start being able to socialize where, cause one of the big things when veterans come back is they feel lost.

Jason: They're struggling from PTSD and it's just a, it's a major problem. And you know, we're just trying to do a small part here that maybe could turn really big down the road. And then with Beat Kids Cancer. And that's a big one for me. Cause my brother passed away when he was three years old from leukemia and RJs a niece. The one of the main reasons why he started this is because his niece has a, well, she's in remission now from leukemia. But the crazy thing is, is that they're still using the same outdated methods that they used back when my brother passed away in 1983. There's still using the same thing, so they're using things that adults use for leukemia that they're giving to children and it's just, it's just not good. So if we could raise enough money with RJs charity, they're going to go ahead and start a research grant to see if we could at least start to do something different for these kids to give them a better life expectancy.

Joe: I can hear your passion about it and see it in your eyes. I mean that's a, that's intense man.  That's really good. So guys, go get the book Flipping Out Over Probates, flippingoutoverprobates.com or just go to Amazon, look for that book. All of the profits of that book go to these two great charities. And if you want more information about Jason as well, he has a good podcast. You're still doing that by the way.

Jason: I am. And I think you scheduled yourself for it and you're going to be, you're going to be on  there soon.

Joe: Nice. I better get some good charities till you have one up you on that right away. If there's any veterans that are looking for a dog listening this right now. I want to get rid of mine. She's digging holes. She's digging holes right now. We've got these molds. We've got three acres next to the woods and I got these stupid moles that are everywhere like digging, you know, and our dogs have figured out how to get them. Holes everywhere. It's making me so – if any veterans listening to this want a dog, I'll give you mine. She's a beautiful  www.RealEstateInvestingMastery.com  28  labradoodle or golden doodle or whatever. Nice. Anyway, I'm just kidding and this I want you to support the veterans through this other organization, but also Jason's got a good podcast. It's called No Flipping Excuses and also on your website, noflippingexcuses.com people can get more information about you.

Joe: You've written some other really good books. You got some really good courses out there. You're an active investor, actively doing deals today, so kudos to you man. Thanks for being on the show. Appreciate it man. And again, two websites guys. Noflippingexcuses.Com and flippingoutoverprobates.com. Go get Jason's stuff right now. Also, if you go to realestateinvestingmastery.com that's the name of this show, realestateinvestingmastery.com you can get the transcription of this. Any of the links and the resources that we talked about in this podcast will be there as well. If you're listening to this on the audio podcasts, if you want to see the video of this, actually as we're doing this right now, you can get all of those goodies at realestateinvestingmastery.com. If you like the show, go subscribe Apple podcasts, leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it and we will see you. Yes, give me a five star review. Hey, thanks, Jason. We'll see you soon on your podcast, right? We'll see you guys. Bye bye.

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