I really believe your mind will be blown by this episode. We’re talking about flipping properties you find on the MLS. That may sound like a no-brainer, but I can just about guarantee you’ve never heard of this strategy before.
I have 2 guests, Jack Sternberg and Stacy Kellams, and I have to thank Stacy for encouraging me to have Jack as a guest. Jack and Stacy have been working together for 20 years. They met at a Mastermind.
Jack’s done a mind-boggling number of real estate deals. He taught Stacy his system for flipping MLS properties after Stacy signed a nondisclosure agreement. Now Jack’s sharing it with us.
Jack’s [very successful] strategy for years was basically taking orders for houses. He did this by interviewing people who came to open houses for properties he’d rehabbed but weren’t interested in the house.
Jack would find out what people didn’t like about that house and what they particularly wanted in a house they would buy. He’d then go to FSBOs, find a house that roughly met these descriptions and sell it with owner financing.
Jack set up an enrollment-based program for buyers and sellers who agree to certain transaction parameters. Jack gets an agreement from the buyer to pay the appraised value of the house.
Then he negotiates with the seller for a lower price than the current one, and, remember, the seller pays the appraised value. Jack owner finances sellers who don’t qualify for a standard loan.
Lately, Jack has groomed some local realtors to work with buyers in his program to find a house on the MLS and place it with Jack to owner finance. These buyers, too, have agreed to pay the appraised value.
If these people qualify for a standard loan, they get a standard loan. They are still buying the house at its appraised price. When dealing with a realtor, he offers 90¢ on the dollar, which is usually quickly rejected.
He can go as high as 97¢ and still make money because his customer has already agreed to purchase the property at the appraised value. And if he carries the financing, he makes still more with the interest.
The strategy will work anywhere or at any time, except in a seller’s market. The realtor has to show the houses and stick with the buyer through the closing, which is a standard real estate transaction.
Even people with excellent credit scores and plenty of money in the bank come to Jack. Maybe they’re purchasing a 2nd or 3rd home and don’t want to go through a bank for that.
Jack prefers working with a realtor on these deals simply because it’s less work for him. He’s going to teach workshops on his program soon. You have to learn the secret sauce from him to make it work.
Joe: Hey, guys, welcome. This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. I'm really excited about this episode. We are going to be interviewing one of the guys that a lot of people call the godfather, the grandfather of real estate. He's been around a long, long time. And, in fact, where I'm interviewing two people, one of them calls him his dad. So it's gonna be really cool. Today on this episode we're going to be talking about flipping properties from the MLS. And I can promise you this, you've never heard of this strategy before. You probably have never thought of it before. This is pretty revolutionary. I only know a little bit about it, but the little bit I do know about it, it's just like mind blown. If I could do like a mind-blown emoji right now, it'd be like this. Right?
Joe: So, I'm going to bring on two special guests here in just a minute, but I want to just announce real quickly… If you like the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast, please leave a review on iTunes, number one, leave a review on iTunes and then go subscribe to the podcast. So, I don't want to waste any other time talking about stuff or announcements. I'm going to dive right in. I got Stacey here and I've got Jack. Jack Sternberg is here, Stacy and Jack. Can you guys hear me okay?
Jack: Yeah. How you doing, Joe?
Joe: Oh, I'm excited about being here. I'm excited that you guys are here. Jack especially, we met for the first time and I had heard about you, I've known about you for years and years and I met you must have been seven or eight years ago, six or seven years ago in New Orleans. Do you remember that?
Jack: Yes. In the quarter, in the French quarter, the French quarter. You were at a mastermind here.
Joe: Yes, and we got to hang out for a little bit. It was really good to see you and talk with you. Stacy approached me the other day and Stacy and I are collaborating on some things and he said, Joe, you got to interview Jack. He's doing some crazy, amazing things, super creative, that I had never heard of before. And he said… Well, we'll talk about the nondisclosure thing, you know, cause it's just, this is like crazy because again, I've never seen anybody do this before. But what I want to do is I want to talk with Jack and Stacy and talk about what's going on with flipping deals from the MLS.
Joe: Now it's not what you're thinking about. It's not going out and making a bunch of low ball offers, mailing and texting or emailing, you know, faxing a thousand a day. It's none of that. This is something that is really, really unique. And I just want to encourage you guys to open up your eyes and ears and listen to this. Stacy, will you just kind of introduce Jack, tell me what you were telling me before and what piqued your interest in this strategy that he's doing?
Stacy: Yeah, absolutely. So Jack and I go back 20 years to a real estate investing mastermind, so the one that you were at, I'm sure, and, I'll never forget, I say I'll never forget, I think it was a woman who came up and asked us at the time, this was 20 years ago, so I, you know, I'm 49 now, so whatever, you know, the math is on that. I'm horrible at math. And she came over and she said, Oh, I think it's so great that a father and son can go to these real estate masterminds and Jack's head nearly exploded: “He's not my son! I would have to have had him when I was 12 years old, he's not my son”. Since then he's been dad to me. I always, and I call him, I say, Dad, I didn't get my allowances this month and he says, go and stand by the mailbox… It's on its way; it's coming. It'll be there.
Stacy: So, just a little bit about Jack, he's forgotten more than most people ever know about real estate. He's done over 1500 single family house deals. I think at one point didn't you, dad, you owned 4,000 apartment units, monthly rent of about a million dollars a month. He owned about $90 million worth of real estate. And so when he called me a couple of months ago and said, Hey, uh, I want to teach the MLS flip system, which I've been trying to get him to teach me for 20 years, and he wouldn't do it. He finally, he said, okay, let's do it. He made me sign a nondisclosure agreement, which I normally have right here and I show everybody and he came to meet with my wife Hilary and I about five weeks ago and showed us the system. My mind was blown away because I've been investing in real estate for 25 years. And so yeah, I've finally gotten him to start talking about.
Joe: Nice. Nice. So, Jack, how are you, sir? Glad you're here.
Jack: I'm good. Thank you. Thank you, Joe. Good to see you again. So basically my system was like many of your listeners, I'm sure, I was buying houses as inexpensively as possible, fixing them up or flipping 'em or renting them or you know, whatever it is we're taught to do, lease purchase them, lease option them, all of the above and hoping that at some point someone would come along and buy the house from me for more than I paid for it and like the way I remodeled it and liked the way I positioned the house in the market, the price and all that. And so one day I was at an open house and for myself, I had 1500 houses all at the same time, not one after another, but we had an inventory of houses.
Jack: And, I always say me and the bank and we ran an open house and now this is an example, but a hundred people came through the house and only one person bought the house. Only one person could buy my house. And a certain number of the other people didn't like the color I painted it or where it was, or perhaps the number of bedrooms and the fact that it had a fireplace or whatever little nuance, you know, that turned them off from buying the house. I started thinking I need to follow those other 99 people and buy a house for them that they would buy from me.
Jack: So, I started basically taking orders for houses. But of course, the inventory that I looked at back then was for sale by owners. And I didn't mess with the MLS and I didn't mess with realtors. Like everybody else, I didn't like realtors cause they, you know, they, their mandate is to sell things full price or at the highest possible price so they can earn a commission. So, I started taking orders for houses and finding houses that approximated what the customer wanted. And I would buy the house for cash, seller finance the house to them and sell the note and doing that for years and years. And one day a lady came to me and she had found a house on the MLS. And instinctively I told her I wasn't interested in doing an MLS flip and I made an offer on the house and I made, you know, 65 cent offer on a listed house. And of course, it was rejected in the agent came, the agent called me up and you know, I didn't even want to present the offer because it was so low.
Jack: And I told the lady, I said, if I can get a discount on this house, would you buy it from me at whatever it appraisers for? And I'll even tell you what I'm gonna pay for it because I'm gonna pay cash for it. But the way I make my money is I buy at the least possible price and I sell it at appraised value. And she was good with that because she wanted that house, the one she picked out. So, I went, I made an offer and, and sold it to her and carried back the financing and sold the financing and made a handy profit on that deal. And I began to realize that the MLS is the real estate market. Our niche, the creative niche is this big in comparison to the entire market. Where I am, I think they sell 4,000 or 5,000 houses a month and nowhere, you know… I know in St Louis that number's gotta be bigger than that.
Joe: Where do you live right now, Jack?
Jack: In New Orleans. So, I just want a piece of that. And in order to get a piece of that, I had to learn to conform with the realtor community on a creative basis.
Joe: Without getting your license, right?
Jack: Without getting my license, right. I didn't want a license. Well, you know, it's kind of like, the reason I don't want to be a lawyer is I can hire a great lawyer much better than I could ever be. Same reason why I don't want to be a doctor. I want to hire the best doctor in that field I can find. And I didn't want to be a realtor either. I felt like I could hire a realtor and for that amount, for the 6% commission, I was going to make them work.
Joe: So, explain kind of how this process works or maybe give an example deal if you can.
Jack: For example, a good friend of mine ran the MLS system. He was the operator for the MLS system here locally. And he called me up, he said, come have lunch with me one day. And so, I went over to the board office and he says, yeah, well you ought to see what's going on in the auditory. And I went into the auditorium and I saw, I don't know, a hundred realtors and they were all learning to become qualified to represent something called the lieu lease program. Now that's been going for years. It was a failure, but basically it was the state providing a customer could pick out a house, the state would buy it and lease it to them. And with the option to buy.
Jack: Needless to say, that didn't last long. It went out of business quick. But I got the idea of qualifying these realtors to work with me. So instead of me going to them saying, please, uh, you know, represent me, and, and so on and so forth, I turned it around on them and I said, I'm an investor. I buy houses and I sell them with owner financing. That's what I do. And, and I want to see if I'll let you represent me. Well, they started stumbling all over themselves to represent. And then I started putting my customer that I had developed the buyer, with that realtor and sent them out to find a house. Several times the house got stolen out from under me and I didn't get to keep the customer. So, I made a fix to that. Anyway, that's been about 15 years. I've been doing this for about 15 years in this fashion, and I've got all the fixes because a lot of stuff's happened dealing with realtors, and I've got all the fixes in place so that now it's really a system. And it's paperwork intensive. But basically, it's a program that realtors put people in so that I can owner finance a house for them.
Jack: Part of the secret is to, in today's world, in order to sell an owner finance note, lot of you, a lot of your listeners I'm sure know this… An owner finance note is not necessarily for people who have bad credit. It's for people who have slight hiccups, slight issues. So those same issues, once addressed the people can do an FHA or Fannie Mae or a conventional loan. So, when they, when they go out to buy a house, if they're qualified for a regular loan, we put them in a regular loan. And the owner finance aspect, which is higher interest, more down payment kind of becomes a second source of money for them; cause, let's not forget I have a contract on the house that they picked out in the MLS and they've already agreed through the paperwork and the understanding that they're going to pay appraised value for my, you know, for that house.
Jack: So that's basically the system in a nutshell. It's, it's fairly complex in the sense that it takes a buyer, it develops a buyer, holds the buyer through the selection process of a house. So instead of the normal deal that says, come buy the house I've got that I've just renovated, I tell them, go to the MLS, pick any house you want within reason, within their price range. So, I can't put somebody in $1 million house and only qualifies for $100,000 house, but I can put them in, I can put them in a $100,000 house that's fair market value, that's fair interest rates and on terms that they can do and they can select the house.
Jack: So, without belaboring the point, I've just engineered a system that works with realtors. In fact, it works with realtors so well that almost every realtor that participates in send me business, even the realtors, I don't know, I call them the opposing realtors. Of course, I've never met them, but I meet them at the closing and they, almost without exception, they all tell me this is the greatest thing; I have people who I think that this could help. Can I get referrals from realtors as well?
Joe: So, let me just ask you a few questions to clarify some things here. You're finding a buyer first? Okay. Are you using your own money to buy the house?
Joe: Okay. And so what kind of discount do you have to buy it at when you're making the offer on the MLS?
Jack: I mean, I could buy the house for really 95 cents, 97 cents on the dollar.
Joe: So that's what blew me away, when Stacy told me that, I said, oh come on Stacy.
Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll hang on. I don't want to, I can, but I don't want to. Of course, I want to make as much money as I can. So typically, I'll make a, I'll make a 90 cent off or 89 cent offers, let them come back at 93 cents, 94 cents, and I'll make a deal. So, I do, I do get, you know, the city average is maybe eight to 10% and I get, you know, eight to 10%, maybe a little more sometimes.
Joe: Well, do you think it's going to be harder to get an offer accepted at 70 cents on the dollar or 90 cents on the dollar?
Jack: It's impossible at .70 with a realtor. Oh yeah. Yeah. I don't even do that.
Joe: So are these beat up homes, you know, dilapidated…
Jack: They're listed homes with major real estate companies. They're ready to go. In fact, they can't be anything but ready to go. So, I don't do renovations or we don't do anything like that. So, the house that my customer selects needs to be a house that's move in condition. Yeah. I mean it can be painted or something like that, but nothing that would prevent somebody from living there now.
Joe: Alright, so you're not, you're not buying the house though.
Jack: There's several different ways of doing it. You could buy the house and flip it to them. Absolutely. It's not necessary. The way I do it is it's… My system is a program that the people enroll in, the sellers enroll in the program. And it allows for me to sell directly from the buyer, I'm sorry, from the seller to the buyer and get paid all at the same time, all in one room, all on the HUD, fully compliant. Any realtor, any mortgage broker, any title company, it doesn't require any special set of circumstances to make this work.
Joe: And this is why you make Stacy sign the nondisclosure agreement because that's where the secret sauce is right here. Right? And so just so I'm clear, you don't need a real estate license so you're not brokering a deal. You're not brokering… Because you obviously have to have a license to do that.
Joe: But you're getting paid somehow in the middle on the HUD, this isn't some under the table thing. You're getting your feed on the HUD.
Jack: Yo, any title company. Doesn't have to be the lender, you know, investor friendly. I don't do anything investor friendly. It has nothing to do with investors. Any realtor…doesn't have anything to do with an investor friendly realtor and any mortgage company… doesn't have anything to do with an investor friendly mortgage company.
Jack: And it is vanilla generic typical real estate; people have tried to second guess how this works. I've just described how it works. Um, there isn't, you know… I've said this before to Stacy, many times, some gurus out there will say, I've got a car that'll go from zero to 100 in 4 seconds and leave out the fact that it needs to be down in Ice Eastland, this is not a, there's no ice ski slope here. It works just like I said. Hey, it's not a simple process, but it's a doable, consistent process.
Joe: All right, so you buy it for 90 and you sell it for what, a hundred, hundred five…
Jack: Yeah, whatever appraisal is, whatever appraisal is. Yeah, so typically it's at least a hundred cents, maybe 105. Sometimes it's been more, sometimes if it's too much, I'll lower the price because the people can't qualify. You know, people qualified for $100,000 pass, so they can't really spend, if it appraised for $130k I can't really sell it to them at $130k because they can't afford to pay that. So, in that case I do. I lower the price. I'll leave money on the table.
Joe: So, are you carrying this note? Are you holding, is it owner financing? Are you holding a note?
Jack: If we do an owner finance deal, yes, I'd hold the note or I discount the note or I'd sell the note or I'd leave it on a line of credit. I mean, the answer is yes. Sometimes I hold the note, sometimes I sell it, but regardless, I have a facility to sell the notes.
Joe: Okay. Yeah. You're, you're not out there then doing direct mail. No cold calling Facebook ads, pay-per-click?
Jack: No. Well, we run Facebook ads. We do some print work. We do some networking with realtors. I have a realtor program that I supply to realtors to educate them on sending me deals. Okay. That's part of the process.
Joe: What's your average profit on each of these deals then?
Jack: Anywhere from a low, average, a low of eight to a high of about 12 on $120,000 house.
Joe: So, on a median priced home about twelve grand.
Jack: Yeah. But this will work in California. This will work… About the only place just locally that it won't work is in a seller market where there's no negotiation on houses and the houses go over value.
Joe: So, this sounds like it's coming into the, as the market is now slowing down, this strategy is going to be coming more and more important, isn't it?
Jack: That's why I'm doing this because it's time…
Joe: Where's the risk in this? These kinds of deals?
Jack: You know, they're really, I mean, I hate to say it's risk free. There is no risk.
Joe: You don't close on the deal unless it's…
Jack: You don't close on the deal unless you're going to make money. Okay. If the house doesn't appraise, bear in mind the customer is already qualified. I don't put them with a realtor until they qualify to buy the house. So the risk is they never find a house. But in terms of a monetary risk, there is no monetary.
Joe: What kind of… Like, how close do they need to be to actually getting a traditional normal mortgage?
Jack: Well, now in the owner finance world, the seller finance world, they're allowed to have some hiccups. They have to be explainable hiccups. It's a lot of common-sense type of underwriting, but by and large, they're people who are close. And if they're not close, I have a program that holds them, puts them into a, a kind of a holding pattern where they, when they do become qualified, we help them become qualified. They come out and they come to me to buy the house. So, I've got a, I've got a piece of this called The Assisted Home Purchase Program that kind of holds the buyer, warehouses the buyer, and they start coming out. Say for example, they need two years on the job and the guy has got a year and a half on the job. So, he's got six months to before he's traditionally qualified.
Jack: I have a program that I put him in that's gonna hold him for all those six months. He's coming back to me, I guarantee. Everybody that's ever seen how I do it say it's genius. I don't think it's genius particularly, but it works every time.
Joe: Alright, so can you give us your pitch to realtors? How do you pitch this to a realtor to say, Hey, bring me, you know, your buyers or your sellers? What is it?
Jack: I tell a realtor, if you have a customer that's interested in buying a house but they've been turned down by a mortgage company, give me their names. And well, there's a system. I mean, I guess I could go into it. There is, so let's say a realtor has 10 turned in, well, I'm advertising, I'm constantly getting buyers, so if a realtor has 10 turndowns, if the realtor will give me her 10 turndowns, I'll assign 10 of mine to hers and now she has 20.
Jack: We'll work with all 20 of them. And when some of those come out and are ready to buy a house, she'll be the realtor on the house. So, we can double her double or triple her volume easily.
Joe: Alright. And she can be then the one out there looking for the homes as well herself.
Jack: Makes no difference because there is nothing the realtor has to do other than show the people the house, there's no commission split with the realtor. The realtor doesn't contribute any, nothing to do with that. No realtor would turn this down. There's no reason a realtor will turn this down. And they don't.
Joe: Well, when you tell them to that you're an investor, they're thinking automatically, oh man, you're gonna low ball… but you're not. And you're going to waste my time, but you're not. Cool. So, can you do this in any part of the country? Do you have to have…?
Jack: You can do this in any area. Actually, you can have two or three per city. But I'm not doing that, you know, I'm not selling any kind of a get rich quick thing or you know, this is my business and I'm really kind of limiting myself to, I'm going to deal with like 50 active people around the country. It's me. It's, you know, this whole thing was designed for me to die in the middle of a transaction and it still close. I can't tell you how many times I was at the title company, a conference room…
Joe: That's kind of depressing, isn't it?
Jack: I can't tell you how many times I'd come home on a Friday afternoon at six o'clock with my check in my hand after having battled the buyer, the seller and the title company in three different rooms at the title company, my buyer out in the U-Haul in the front of the title company ready to move into their house on Friday afternoon last day of the month. And I thought, you know, this thing, I was making a bunch of money but if something happened to me in the middle of this thing it wouldn't close because it required me to be there and this doesn't do that. This, this gets the realtor to do their job the way this is structured. Now I'm there, I like to be there cause that's where I get paid. So, I want to be there. I'm not into this virtual… I mean you could do it virtually. I'm not interested in doing it virtually. I want to be in the room because I want my check.
Joe: Okay. Let's talk about marketing. So, you're mainly marketing for buyers. That's your main thing. You do your marketing for buyers. You find somebody that is a semi qualified and just kind of on the verge of getting the mortgage right or it's not necessary…
Jack: No, I want, I want all levels of buyers. I want people who have no hope of buying a house all the way through somebody who's got a 720-credit score and $100,000 in the bank. Everything in between. So, there's no, I'm not looking for a particular type of buyer. I'm looking for all buyers.
Joe: So why can't these buyers just work with realtors? Why do you have to be involved?
Jack: Well, number one, the realtors don't know how to do it. Number two, the realtors don't have an incentive to work with the bar. With me they have a commission incentive. They're going to get paid on the transaction. And with me, they know the transaction is going to close because I have a program basically much as I discussed a little while ago, going into the, going into the auditorium and seeing all these realtors becoming qualified for that program. I decided that I needed to qualify them to work with this program. So as long as I'm developing the buyer, I control the bot, the program.
Joe: How is this different than what home partners of America does or some of these hedge funds where they find a qualified tenant, they buy the house and lease option it back to that tenant?
Jack: This is not a lease option. Not any kind of contract to be, this is not any kind of trust or power of attorney situation or any of that. I know about those other programs. It doesn't even compare to this. Those are all lease purchase. And that's fine if you want to at least purchase something. But most buyers want to own. And with me, you know, I tell people at the closing, if a tree falls on your house after this closing, don't call me. Call the insurance company. Right? Cause I don't have anything to do with it.
Joe: So, is it a land contract? So, it's not a land contract?
Jack: Not a land contract of any type.
Joe: So, who's on the deed?
Jack: Yeah, they're absolutely 100% on the deed and I am not.
Joe: Okay. So, the buyers on the deed… Nice. I mean, I can just see how much more appealing this would be to a buyer. You know, because with the land contract, they're may be not on the deed until they refinance out. Right. But this is much better for them.
Jack: They will own the deed day one.
Joe: That's amazing. All right, so your marketing for buyers mainly, and you do some Facebook ads. Stacy was telling me that it's really simple, but you also do some other types of marketing. What kind of marketing budget do people need then for finding these buyers? You talking thousands of thousands of dollars or…
Jack: No, no, I had difficulty spending more than about $1500 a month. I had difficulty finding places to spend more than $1500 a month and I would get, my lead costs were about a dollar a lead or maybe a little more in today's, you know, we're experimenting, excuse me. We're experimenting with some stuff and I think the lead cost was a little North of a dollar, but South of $2.
Joe: Yeah. I've done Facebook ads for tenant buyers before for lease option tenant buyers and it works really, really well. Yeah.
Jack: How many leads, out of curiosity, how many leads do you get when you run that ad?
Joe: You know, it's been a few years since we did it. It's been about three years but we were getting, it was ridiculously cheap. In fact, I remember even, this is something you might want to test too on your own. We had, we were testing different ads, some ads. I had a picture of a beautiful house, landscape lighting, manicured lawn. Then we tested that with a little small three-bedroom ranch with the lawn in the front. Like brown, half brown and half green. Right. Just like a normal middle-class property.
Jack: A real house.
Joe: Yes. A real house. Would you believe it? The one that looked like the smaller, cheaper house had two to three times the clicks and the opt-ins. And our ad that we were doing was just for, Hey, join our list to find local rent own homes or something like that. And, and I was just using an investor carrot website and you know, I wish I could remember the numbers. I could look it up later if we had to, but it was really, really cheap.
Jack: We're getting, we're getting eight to 12 leads a day. 14 leads a day. I think right now in one market.
Joe: In one market? So, credit is no problem then?
Jack: Yeah, credit's not… Okay. So, there's different aspects to this. People who need credit to be no problem enter what we call the Assistant Home Purchase Program. People who are ready to go start looking for a house. So, credit is an issue. Anybody who tells you credit isn't an issue is not telling you the truth. What I've got is a piece of this where we hold, basically warehouse, for lack of a better word, we warehouse people who have credit issues; if they continue to have credit issues, let's be real, they got to get their act together. And we got a little section of this that gets them to get their act together and qualify for a house. We know exactly what they need to do to qualify.
Joe: Okay. Can you even help somebody who's got good credit? Yeah? And you get paid from that, being in the middle of that?
Jack: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah, I've done people with excellent credit with money in the bank buying a second or third home, who don't want to go to the bank for various reasons. I've done self-employed people who have mattress money, so to speak. You know, that type thing.
Joe: So, you don't, you don't have a mortgage broker's license?
Jack: No, I'm not a broker. Listen: third party mortgage broker, third party realtor, third party title company. Any title company. Any mortgage broker. Any real realtor. Don't require anything special.
Joe: How long do these take from beginning to end? You know, if you find a good buyer that qualifies or whatever, how long does it typically take?
Jack: So typically, it's a, it's a regular real estate transaction. So, the truth is it takes about 30 or 45 days from start to, you know, for when they're looking for a house to when it closes because their inspections, there's an appraisal, there's all the normal normalities of a typical real estate transaction.
Joe: Do you ever go look at the property yourself?
Jack: I try not to because I'm not interested. I'm never going to live in that house. I have a beautiful home. I'm not really interested in that house. My motto is if they like that house, I like that house. I try not to look at it. So, I see the paperwork. But the realtor does all that.
Joe: Are you using contracts, assignments or putting them in trusts, anything like that?
Jack: No assignments. Realtors won't do anything. Right? You have to go to an investor friendly title company to do that too. I can let them pick the title company. I don't care what title company because there's nothing, it's all done in the same room at the same time, by the same lawyer, both realtors in the room, the buyer, the seller, everybody's… there's no trickery. There's no ski slope, there's no ice ski slope.
Joe: I like that analogy. You can do these deals anywhere. You know, let's say I wanted to do them in Des Moines, Iowa and I live in sat Louis, Missouri. Can I do them in Des Moines?
Jack: I know you can. Old school, I like to be there. You know, you definitely can do it virtually. You know, that just, I can't imagine myself doing a deal across the country, but…
Joe: There's enough opportunity, there should be enough opportunity where you live. You don't need to go out anywhere.
Jack: I've explained it. A friend of mine was asking me about it and just as there are 10, and I'm making this up, 10 Century 21's in your town, you know, there could be, you could have 10 people doing this in your town. It wouldn't affect you. Just like, it doesn't affect the fact that there are 10 century 21s… it has nothing to do with it.
Joe: Good. Stacy, you've been quiet. I'm sorry, I have not been asking you questions here, but like what are some of the common questions or objections or myths that you hear that you want to maybe talk about here?
Jack: A lot of people think it's some kind of, uh, assignment or trust or some hokey something that somebody taught him somewhere. It's not, it's none of those things. Um, and the more I, the more I talk about people trying to figure it out, it's in your face. It's so clear. It's so simple. It's so mainstream. It doesn't look, it doesn't look, smell or act any different than a regular real estate transaction. Actually, that's what's so beautiful about it. And let me assure you again, let me tell you again, there's no Ice Eastland. It doesn't require a set of circumstances. You're paid on the HUD in front of everybody and they all shake your hand. They're all happy with it.
Joe: That's good.
Stacy: You know, a great way to, a great analogy would be, have you ever watched a commercial or been in a store and seen a product and thought, wow, that's a great idea. It's so simple. Why didn't I think that? That's the secret sauce is… When you see it, you would just, Joe, if we showed it to you, just wow. Why didn't I think of that?
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. Which is why Jack, I'm glad that you're sharing this, Jack. I really am. And, and obviously there is, there's a lot more to this that's under the hood that's really important that people get right and not screw it up and do it wrong. You're doing some workshops coming up where you're going to be teaching the strategy to a select few. You don't want the entire world knowing about this. Right?
Jack: Well, the bottom line, it's me. I can only support about 50 active people. I'm not gonna do you know, I can't do a thousand people and I'm not so, and I don't speak from the stage and I'm not running to the back of the room and you got to buy now. So, let me tell you a few things about it first. I'd like to know a little bit about the potential trainee. We'd like them to go to a MLSflip.com.
Joe: Yeah. I got a link here, guys. I want you to see, I write you to write this down: mlsflip.com.
Jack: Let me, let me also tell you that I'm charging $50,000 for this program. It's not a $97 deal. It's a real system. We're also asking people to commit, you know, those that we're gonna accept doing this, we ask that they commit themselves to doing this.
Joe: They can't buy the next shiny object. They don't need to buy a shiny object. This thing works, don't need to do anything else. If they want, if they want to learn how to flip properties on the MLS, this is the program. This is what they ought to do.
Joe: That's not, that's not cheap.
Jack: No, but we're, you know, listen, I'm willing to finance some of it or part of it or I'm willing to talk about it. It works. I expect to get paid out of it. That's why I'm willing to finance. So, don't let money stop you from, you know, going to go into fill out the information.
Joe: Well let's, let's talk about the numbers here too, because these numbers are actually really good. You should be able to get that money back in five deals, right? Five deals. So, you know, if somebody takes it really seriously, Jack and you know… how long is the workshop that you do when you teach this strategy?
Jack: I do a three day, very intensive… It's almost one on one. It's not one on one, but it's almost one on one, small group. It's in a board room, generally, you know, we're doing, I've got one that I'm willing to do and we'll see how that goes. And I devote myself to the student. I want the student to succeed, but they have to want to succeed. They have to be willing to follow directions. It doesn't require a lot of experience. Some experience would be good, but pretty much anybody can do it.
Joe: Yup. And so, somebody taking a seriously doing what you say to do, you know, how realistic is it to get them to one or two, couple, three deals a month.
Jack: I mean, very realistic. They have to follow the program. It's going to take 30 to 45 days to do their first deal, assuming they start immediately, but after that, it just kind of rolls because the people that come out of the assistant home aspect of this qualify, and you put them with the realtor and they find a house.
Joe: Right. I love this idea, Jack, because you know… What's the statistics? 80% of sellers who want to sell their house and or buy a house, what's the first place they go to? Or who's the first person they call? A realtor. The MLS. This is where a vast majority, 90%, maybe of all the transactions happen, on the MLS. If you're ignoring the MLS or if you think the only way you can do deals is by offering a ton of low ball offers, 60-70 cents on the dollar. You're in for a huge awakening. I mean, this… go ahead.
Jack: Yeah, I mean, just think for a second. I've got, I control the buyer. I've developed and control the buyer. He's approved for $200,000. I send him out to find a house in his price range. He identifies the house. I'd be willing to make $195,000 offer knowing I'm going to make $5,000 on that house. I don't, there's a way to make $10k or $12,000 or more on that house, but I can pay 95 cents on the dollar for the house if I wanted to.
Joe: Yeah, no, that's crazy.
Stacy: When Jack says we send them out to look at the house. We're not, they're not going out with us. They're going out with one of our agents. Our agent… We don't have a brokerage, but one of the agents we work with, so Jack and I aren't out there driving all over town looking at houses and the guys who I know, we've got some guys here in a in large metropolitan areas and you are as well, and it can take 45 minutes to an hour to get to the other side of town to go look at a deal. That's what a lot of real estate investors do. We don't do that. The agents do that. That's their job, that's we pay them for.
Joe: Let me just say this too, guys. I don't get anything from this. I love Jack so much; Stacy, he's all right. But I'm just kidding. But I believe in what Jack is doing here. When Stacy was telling me this, I was like, Whoa, this is crazy. So, I don't get anything from this. I just want you guys to hear about this. This is a strategy that I don't know anybody else doing and I've never heard of this before.
Jack: Never heard of anybody doing this before.
Joe: No. So, it's, it's very, very unique and I'm excited about it and I know somebody here is listening to this podcast right now and is going to sign up and you're gonna change your life. Just got to do four, five, six deals to get that investment back. It's a no brainer. Jack's been in the business for 40 something years. Is that what you said?
Jack: Forty-three years.
Joe: So, you've been through one or two market cycles. Cool. Any final words, Stacy or Jack? Anything you want to say as we wrap it up?
Stacy: Go ahead, Dad.
Jack: If anybody is interested, don't let the price scare you. It's that expensive cause it works. Go to mlsflip.com make an application. It's a brief application. My assistant Kelly, who's been with me 12 years is going to call you and set an appointment and answer every single question you have. And then we have some questions as well. So, everybody needs to be comfortable with this. You need to fully understand it before you commit to it. And uh, and just, you know, take it from there. I mean, this is, I don't want to say this ought to be the last thing you ever, the last real estate product you ever buy, but it ought to be the last real estate product you ever buy.
Joe: You know, how much does it cost to buy a Subway franchise anymore? When you're actually buying a 60 hour a week job, right? How much does it cost to go to a four-year college degree to make $50,000 a year. Like, come on, this is a…
Jack: My lawyer told me I should charge $100,000 for it because it's so, such a turnkey deal.
Joe: Oh, excellent. Stacy, do you have anything you want to say to wrap it up?
Stacy: No, those are great questions that, before Jack showed it to me, I had a lot of the same questions. How do you, how are you in there inserting yourself in the middle of two agents, not being an agent yourself and able to walk away with, in some cases, more money than they're walking away with and not have board of realtors, you know, dragging you in front of one of their, you know, panels or whatever they do?
Stacy: When you, like I said, when you see it and when I signed the nondisclosure, he showed it to me and I had the Eureka moment, I get it. A lot of it is in the paperwork. A lot of the secret sauce is in the paperwork and it's not a trust. It's not anything weird like that because like Jack said, you, the title companies wouldn't, they don't want to mess up. They don't want to mess with any of that.
Joe: Let me emphasize that again. We're not out there looking for investor friendly title companies that will let you do double closes or assignments, right? Right. We're not looking for hard money lenders or private money lenders. You're not looking for title companies that will let you do this stuff or realtors that are investor friendly. You're just working… You want to work with the boring old realtors, boring old title companies, right?
Jack: Right. I want to work generic. You know, when I started doing this, I said a minute ago, what if I died in the middle of a, of a double closed transaction? It wouldn't happen. And I started systematizing it 15 years ago so that it would happen because it was all contracts and how do I interface our world, the investor world with realtors without alienating the realtors? The answer's very simple: You pay them. And I have a way of paying them… Not a way, but I have, they get everything they want. They want full commission. They're going to get full commission and they're going to get more business. So, they love me.
Joe: That's excellent. Very, very good. Alright guys, there you have it: mlsflip.com. This isn't some hard pitch. It's 50 grand. Okay.
Jack: Don't let that scare you now. I mean, you know, you can make a lot of money with it, so don't, that shouldn't scare you.
Joe: If it does, you're probably not a good fit for it anyway. The potential in this is unlike anything I've ever seen and I'm excited about it. I'm glad to have you here, Jack. You too. Stacy, thanks for being here on the show. And guys, again, if you have any questions about this strategy, don't ask me. I can't answer it. Go to mlsflip.com and just fill out a survey. Get on the phone with Jack and his team. You can ask them all the questions you want, you know, get a good comfort level with this and you know, that's the next step. If you're at all interested in this, this is really good. Nobody else is doing this. Mlsflip.com go check it out. Thank you so much guys. I appreciate you being here. Alright.
Stacy: Thanks, Joe.
Joe: Bye bye.