Joe:   What's going on, guys? Welcome to the Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast. Today we're going to be talking about one of my favorite subjects. And you may not think that this is a fun topic to talk about. You may think, my gosh, the S-word, I hate sales. Let me tell you, sales. It's the million dollar skill. And if you aren't on this thing right here, you're not making money. And I'm not talking about Instagram and I'm not talking about social media. I'm talking about the S word. I'm talking about sales. Here's a deal. It's a competitive market out there, right? Whether you're doing land or houses or whatever it is. The people that stand above the crowd, the people that stand high head and shoulders above everybody else, who are the most successful, who make the most money, no matter what industry you're in, they they're good at sales. And it's not that complicated. It's actually really easy. You just need to learn how to talk to sellers, how to talk and how to listen. Mainly you just need to learn how to listen. I got a special guest today. Her name is Jen Way. We're going to be talking about this. She is a sales trainer. She helps a lot of people in sales and specifically in the real estate investing space, but also in all kinds of industries. And so we're going to be talking about this now. I've had a lot of people on my podcast over the years. I've been doing it since 2011, now 13 years, couple thousand episodes, and I've had a lot of sales people on and I love talking to them because this is something that I need a lot of help with. I admit I'm not good at sales, right? I kind of started doing lease options back in the day in 2009 when I quit my job because I didn't have to talk to sellers. I just kind of like texted them and emailed them. And for some reason I still do deals and I still do deals with land without talking to sellers. But I could do so many more deals if I was better at it. So there's always room for boom and there's always things that we need to learn. And it's not that intimidating actually, because some people think, man, I want to pick. I have to pick up that phone. It's a 500 pound cactus and I've got to talk to people really seriously. Well, I don't know if you have money, maybe you don't have to. You shouldn't. You don't need to. I don't know. But it's a good idea to just learn some of the basic things. And Jen's going to be breaking it down into five simple steps, five easy steps to get to. Yes. With the sellers. And it's going to be counterintuitive. It's not like anything you've ever heard before. I trust me on this. So let's just bring her on finally. Okay, Joe.What's up, Jen? How are you?

Jen:   I am well. How are you today?

Joe:   I'm awesome. This is good. I'm sure the audio is just fine. So, Jen, what's your background?

Jen:   Sales. Really at the end of the day, I've been working in a lot of different industries, but the majority of my experiences are real estate sales, acquiring properties, disposition properties. And one thing I've learned selling different products, sales and sales, all really the same thing. I heard you say it just a minute ago, which is something I scream from the mountaintops while listening to people when they talk and just learning how to communicate with them. It's really that easy now.

Joe:   And I'm thinking what other people are thinking right now, maybe. And a little bit of it's like, I'm not a sales guy, right? I'm not good at sales. Is that something you're born with? Is there something you can learn or is that just a stupid question?

Jen:   I mean, I wish I was born with it because then I would have been doing deal a lot faster than I was. You know, listen, some people are born with charismatic personalities or they can make people laugh easily or you can make friends easily. But being great at sales is really just about learning how to guide the conversations in the way that you need. Like you said, learning how to listen, which I think is really probably the most difficult part. But it's not hard, you know. But no, I've worked with all different types of people with no experience to lots of experience. And this is something you absolutely can learn and really very simple to do.

Joe:   All right. So talk a little bit more again, how did you get started in real estate? What were you doing before and what kind of success have you had in real estate?

Jen:   Actually, I was selling invisible fence collars for dogs. I sold Verizon Internet. I sold cars at one point. And then a friend of mine went and got her real estate license and I showed me her commission check. That was the moment I realized that I was in the wrong sales industry. And so I went. I actually started out in real estate as a licensed realtor and got sick and tired of driving people to 27.3 houses before they actually, you know, put an offer in that was approved. And now a real estate investor specifically and wholesaling. And from there, I mean, it's been over 10 to 15 years. Just showed my age a little bit sorry. But from there I was very lucky, actually, to find somebody out here in Colorado who was looking for sales person. He was full time in the Army and he needed somebody to actually pick up the call wise and return phone calls. And so he and I started wholesaling. Then we started flipping houses and we were doing rentals. We did brand new developments and towards the very end we were doing just land.

Joe:   Yeah, I love this. I know what you're talking about, but we'll leave them nameless just in case. We don't need to mention his name, but great guy. And he's. On a lot of deals. I slowly and you all have done a lot of land deals, which is one of the things I've been mostly excited about the last few years. I've been doing a lot of land. I love land, and it's just easier. In your experience, have you found that sales for land is actually maybe a little easier than doing sales for houses or doesn't matter?

Jen:   I think once you understand that these are just conversations with regular people talking about the problems that they have and being able to connect your value with, you know, solving their problems, I wouldn't say one is easier. I would say you can do more land deals on the same amount of time because there's not things like walkthroughs and inspection periods and you don't have to go through as much. So you could do all three land deals at the same time you get out.

Joe:   You know, I just got a Facebook post today in my inner circle and it was funny. Somebody responded, Here it is. And this kind of relates to what we're I think we're talking about. You might not disagree with me. One of the things I tell people is your speed income is directly proportional to the number of offers that you make. And it's all about making offers. And the more people you talk to, the more no's you get, the more deals you're going to do and you should be making offers. And there's this book go for no just being okay with getting a no. And I think a lot of reasons. Maybe one of the biggest reasons why people are afraid to pick up the phone and talk to sellers is they're afraid of. No. They're afraid of rejection. In some ways it's good to encourage that. Although the title of this podcast was like five ways to get to Yes, but it's okay to get to know. And one of the things I just was thinking of this as we were talking and so this is from somebody in my group. She says, Well, I'm a little late. As Joe says, if you don't make somebody angry before noon, you're doing something wrong. As I said, listen, if you haven't made somebody mad by 12:00, you're not making enough offers. Right. So I made somebody angry today at 12:07 p.m., made my first offer over the phone. It was a follow up call on a piece of property in Central State, whatever. And the guy, after we spoke for a little bit, hung up on me. I'm currently reading the book Go for No. And I know I'm on the right track exclamation point. And so she got a bunch of likes and a bunch of congratulations. That's awesome. And stuff like that. Talk about I mean, we're talking about how to get to. Yes, right. But at the same time, there's this concept of going for no and being okay with getting a no and getting people mad at you. And if you've not made somebody met and tell me if you agree with this, maybe I'm totally off base and I'm okay with that. But if you haven't made somebody upset at 12:00, you're not marketing hard enough. You're not talking to enough people, you're not making enough offers. What's your philosophy on thinking of that? Does that make sense?

Jen:   I couldn't agree more, actually. I thought all of my silence that the point of calling people and having these conversations is to put them strongly in yes or no? Yeah. You don't want people just hanging out in the middle, right? You don't want people thinking about it. You want them to be sure you were the right solution or be sure you're not right. I think in today's world, you know, younger people that are saying you want to swipe left or swipe right, you don't want people caught in the middle. So the better you get this, the better you get at pushing people towards no disqualifying them. Right. That's how we traditionally know that. But. Absolutely.

Joe:   But it sounds so counterintuitive, doesn't it? Like, why would I want them to say no? I want them to say yes. Explain that paradigm shift.

Jen:   Because not every single person you talk to is the best fit for you. That's why. Right? We're not here to hand out briefcases for money. Nobody's taking our offers because they love the numbers that we're saying. Right? So why are we trying to put square pegs for round holes? We have to be able to establish, Hey, is this even somebody I want to buy the property out? Is this a good fit for them and me? Right. So sometimes you push people towards no, because that's the efficient way to get off the phone and start getting on the phone with people who are going to be the right fit for you.

Joe:   And is it true, like when you play the reluctant buyer role, the role of the reluctant, disinterested buyer, you tend to actually draw people to you because you're not chasing them?

Jen:   Absolutely. I'm old enough to remember that we used to actually sit at tables to negotiate. Right? And there were two Zoom meetings or phone calls. People sat down at a table. And I remember the first time somebody actually used that track on me when they leaned back in their chair and they threw their pen down, everybody else at the table sat up and leaned right. It's back to the old dating idea to right Sales is a lot like dating. When you don't show interest, that's when the girl actually becomes interested, right? Absolutely. All the time. But I've think there's actually you can fill in a very genuine way if somebody is not the right fit for you, if you're talking to them about what's going on and these aren't problems you can actually help with build on that. Absolutely.

Joe:   That's good. Okay. You understand the business. You understand sales specifically with land, but this applies to houses or land or commercial or residential doesn't matter. What are some of the tried and true principles in the rules that you live by will come out.

Jen:   Well, first and foremost. I am. I'm actually the middle son. Not tried and true. This is one of the things are setting me apart. I read no script saleswoman. I do not believe in having just a numbered list of questions that you need to ask people.

Joe:   Cool.

Jen:   I believe more in understanding what questions you need to ask and being able to just have a conversation. Right. I'll go again. Some of the people out there who say that you need to drop the small talk. I absolutely ask people how their day is going, how their holidays were, because I want to actually connect with them. Right. Build rapport. So I would say yeah. Number one. Build rapport with people. Good sales as a person business, right. We're in the people business. As a matter of fact, I actually I typed into chat GBC. My husband did actually, because he was trying to, like, prove me wrong. Right. And so he typed in the Chad PBT. Well, I replaced sales coaches and he came back and came back and said no, because sales is about building relationships and a robot can never teach you how to build a relationship quite like a human will be able to do.

Joe:   Good point. Stop trying to create these deal bot negotiator things that you know have this. I never liked those. You try to make the seller go through this chat bot that pretends to be human and asks a bunch of questions to kind of get them to go to a real live call with somebody. Like why not just have a real live chat with somebody, right? To begin with, from the very beginning. Seems to make more sense to me. I don't know.

Jen:   I see it being used by a couple people. And I got to tell you, the feedback from those the leads is not great on that yet. So maybe someday they get it better. But yeah, I also am not a big fan of that.

Joe:   I have heard from somebody who is very pro AI that they're still a year or two away from something that will be decent. So we'll see. All right. So we'll see. The first step is building a rapport. You have got five steps here. This is really good. Getting to the. Yes. Building rapport. What does that mean?

Jen:   Building rapport means you need to learn how to communicate in a way that people are going to like or trust you. Okay. You don't have to be extremely charismatic if you speak confidently. If you're able to use examples of situations like believe that you've helped somebody in the past, right. And build up that you are the professional here, then you can build a foundation of trust and that's rapport. Or you can get people to like you. I think I'm more like that. I don't think I've ever had a, you know, a phone call with a lead where I haven't cracked at least one joke. That's just, you know, my personality. Yes. So you have to play to your strengths with that. But building rapport is very simple. They like you or they trust you.

Joe:   Okay. And then what are some tips to building report?

Jen:   I think just taking the stress off of yourself. See, that's why I don't like scripts, right? Because we're so focused on just reading these exact words that we forget to ask people follow up questions about the things that they say. So if I were, you know, on the phone with somebody and say if it's right after Thanksgiving. Right. So obviously, all this week, I'm asking people how their holiday was. When they give me an answer, I'm going to ask them more about it. That's it. Just be a human. If you're not comfortable with like building friendships quickly, then I suggest making sure that you're, you know, you have some pretty canned ways of building confidence with, you know, with the lead with you obviously talk about other situations where you've helped people like them, talk about deals you've done in that area. Talk about how you've worked with people.

Joe:   Let's rewind a little bit to the building report from at the beginning of a conversation, because now I know I'm not like everybody, but I sometimes get annoyed when somebody I don't know is asking me, how am I doing? How's it going? How's the weather? How's. And I'm just like, I don't even know who you are. Like, what do you want? So I know not everybody is like that, but how do you handle it when you've got somebody that just doesn't care about the small talk, doesn't want to waste time talking about how their days.

Jen:   You're not the only one. Yeah, right. There's actually quite a few people who have sales resistance up so strongly as soon as they hop on the phone that that's why they don't want you and don't.

Joe:   Most people have a ton of sales resistance immediately because that makes sense, I guess.

Jen:   I would say most people do, but not everybody will necessarily. If you're authentic in asking people about stuff, they tend to just answer. Right? And so I think that for me, it's easy because I'm very animated when I talk and I actually care about that stuff for other people might be more difficult.

Joe:   Because it's a lot depends on the tone, right?

Jen:   Absolutely. Yes.

Joe:   And there's a I know you don't like scripts, but I do, though, this one guy who has a script on cold calling and one of the things that he does, which catches people completely off guard and I love it. He starts the conversation with, Hey, you're going to hate me. This is a cold call.

Jen:   I know this one.

Joe:   Yeah. Isn't this good? Yes, I know you're going to hate me. This is a cold call and you can hang up. But can you. Can you at least give me five seconds to tell you what this is about? And then he says something in there along the lines of it. And I'm calling about your house or your vacant lot. And that's I like that little strategy of building rapport because you're establishing your you're completely, brutally honest right up from the beginning and you're giving them permission to get mad at you and hang up and you're doing it in a way that's unique and different that they probably never heard before.

Jen:   Yes. Yeah, like that example I do. And I'm actually a huge fan of giving people permission to tell me now. I think the very beginning. Absolutely right. If this is something that sounds crazy and you have no interest whatsoever in talking more about selling your property to me, tell me now we can still be friends. I see like that all the time. But I would say with those people that are like that, you know, the most reasons they don't want to talk about their day. They don't want to tell you about the holidays. Right. You can just hear it in their voice. I just back off because you don't have to build a rapport in the beginning of the phone call. You can just wait until they've said something that you can connect to. One of my favorite examples was I was talking to a gentleman who I, I mean, if I had to guess in the first five minutes, there was no way we were getting a deal. Wasn't going to happen. And then he just happened to mention something about Cleveland, Ohio, and he said, it's your family from Cleveland. He said, Yes. And I was like, I'm a proud Cleveland Browns fan. Getting there was. Right.

Joe:   Or I have a friend who's a huge Cleveland Browns fan. You guys are crazy wearing no shirts at the football games in the middle of the winter.

Jen:   Absolutely. Yes. So, okay. I don't think that like, obviously, I tried the very beat of a call. Right. But I don't think that you have to build rapport in the first minute and become best friends. I think that you can talk about the property and then get back to building a little better rapport and then talk some more about the property. And then maybe now I'm asking you, you see what I'm saying? And this is why I don't love scripts, because it makes it all feel very rigid.

Joe:   Okay. So real quick then, what are some examples of things you can do to quickly build rapport?

Jen:   I mean, a simple way is really just to be human on the phone with a human. Don't use a bunch of big words. Right? Just talk to people using examples of other, you know, deals that you've done if you've done a lot in that area. Probate leads, for example. If you have talked to other probate leads. You know, I've talked to a lot of people going through probate. And when a lot of them find and what a lot of them have felt, and this is how I help them. So using other social evidence is a common way. I have a honestly and it sounds ridiculously cliche, but I pretty much just ask people how their day's going and then follow up on that. And if they're not, you know, not ready to really open up and connect. I go straight to the property and then I just sit back and I wait for them to actually say something that I can connect to. I think that building rapport is not necessarily just about asking about them. You can share something about yourself to build rapport with people as well.

Joe:   Okay. I like that. The next step is what? Something to do about listening. Right?

Jen:   Yes. Listen tactically. All right. I think a lot of people have heard active listening. Right. Where you're focused on hearing what people are saying. But I think you need to listen tactically. What I mean by that is, first of all, take notes on every single thing that anybody ever says. Okay, personal life, property details, the situation that they're in. Every single thing that people are telling you when you're talking to them. Take notes on all of it. And what I mean by tactical listening is make sure that as you're taking these notes, you're able to go back and touch on the topics again and actually dig deeper. Okay. So it's like a tell Me more situation, almost like when you're with your therapist, you tell them something and then I'm like, Well, how does that make you feel? Right. Give me more details and what you're doing. And I know this might be a little silly sometimes my sometimes a lot of the examples I use are a little more straight. And I'm a Colorado girl, so I think of myself as like a cheetah sitting in the bushes just waiting for them to tell me something about the problem or the pain or the situation that's going on. Because as soon as it gets brought up, we're going right into it. I talk a bunch more about what the problem is or what the pain is that they're having. That's what I mean by tactical. You're waiting for that saying for them to see that thing that you were really trying to get through the entire time. Right.

Joe:   You know, I had an example that might be if they mentioned something about their other properties or. Right. Like and I find this hard to do. This isn't easy for me. I'm not a good listener, but I have some friends that are and when we're practicing with our students or role playing with our with our coaching clients and sometimes. You got to listen for those little things where they maybe hint at other properties they have or hint at some reason why they need to sell this thing. And it's easy just to gloss over that. So that's it's important, isn't it?

Jen:   And that's why I say take notes on every single thing that they say. I'm old school. I can't type nearly as fast as I could write. So whenever I'm on the phone with a lead, I genuinely just have a piece of paper, a pen, and I'm writing every single thing down so I can go back to it, right? I'm so focused on just listening to what they're saying and writing down these notes. I can just go back to the top of the list and be. Tell me more. Tell me more. Tell me more.

Joe:   Okay. That's good. All right. You mentioned here in my notes I'm looking at the RR. What is that?

Jen:   Yes. You see, in for repeat, really resume. So I think a lot of people have a difficult time and. But what do I say now? So if I were to ask you, you know, tell me something about the property and you said, it's five acres and this and that or whatever. Okay. It's five acres. A lot of properties in that area are 5 to 10 acres. So have you had a survey done? Repeat what they say. Give me an opportunity to actually think about a way to relate to it. Right. And then resume the conversation with a question. This is a very easy way to keep control of the conversation, keep guiding it where you need it to go, and at the exact same time, you're just forcing them to keep answer questions. Answer questions, Answer questions. And you want them talking at least 85% of the time. And you should be 15% or less. One of my favorite quotes is I've never learned anything while I was the one talking. That is a pillar in your sales calls. Absolutely.

Joe:   Let's go. I've never learned anything while I was the one talking. That's good. That's really good. All right. Before we move on to number three, anything else you want to talk about in terms of listening tactfully or tactically?

Jen:   Yeah. And I think the other one would apply, too, right? Well, you no, I just you know, I think that our repeat really resume has been really one of the game changers for a lot of people that I work with because they don't know how to just keep the conversation going. Right. When you repeat what someone said, they know that you're actually listening. That's the other advantage with that. And then it gives you that little bit of time to think about, Well, what my next question is going to be, especially when you're newer, might be hard to actually, you know, come up with the next question. So it's a great way to guide you through all the conversation and get all the information that you actually need.

Joe:   Yeah, that's a good thing, too. I don't like scripts either, but I do like having a list of questions to ask because it helps me kind of think of while I'm listening tactfully and tactically is what? What's the next question I can ask? And so it could be as simple as if you have a one of the questions would be like, what's more important to you to sell it quickly or to sell it for the highest price possible? That's a good question. Right? Or maybe is this a now thing or a later thing for you? Do you think that's a fair price for this crazy market right now? Right. Okay.

Jen:   Actually, and I want to point out real quick, those are AB choice questions, which are great in sales, right? Are they?

Joe:   Why's that?

Jen:   Because you can position them in a way where like, what do you say? You know, is this a right now setting or a six months thing? Well, that goes for, you know, lead temperature all day long. Right. Are they ready? Are they actually ready, willing to do something right now? And you don't have to ask it like, well, do you actually want to sell the property right now? Yeah, you're giving them.

Joe:   But you also want to ask open ended questions. Right. To getting the talk.

Jen:   Of course. Yeah. Early on in the conversation, I just think that when you're going to the motivation questions, they how fast do they want to get it done. Some very specific things that you need to qualify the lead. Those AB questions can really qualify for leads quickly for you and then people are going to answer. C Right. If you give them two choices, they're going to pick one.

Joe:   Yeah.

Jen:   So it's a really great way to qualify. Leads quickly get to the motivations very fast. Early on in the conversations I'm asking mostly open ended questions. But what I really need to figure out is this the right lead for me? Should I keep talking or should I go for now instead? Those AB choices are really great for that.

Joe:   Okay. What's the third step?

Jen:   Third step? Getting there. Why? You know, a lot of people talk about find the motivation. I think that motivation is really just a surface level, a superficial version of their why. And with this, I think using the doctor example. Right. These people have when I when you're sick or something, you go to your doctor, you give them all your symptoms. Those are the motivations to me. Right? I want the money. I'm done being a landlord. I'm not doing anything with it. But if you dig deeper on those things or as a doctor, you actually take the symptoms and align them with a diagnosis and then you provide them the medication they need or the therapy they need to actually solve their problem. Why is that underlying sickness? It's the disease. And it's our job to. In a way that is not just talking about how they're going to get paid fast and not just talking about how it's going to be easy, but actually getting to the real problems and pains that they have and being able to directly correlate what we're doing as a solution to those problem.

Joe:   What if they don't have any pain? Most sellers are like that. They just don't. They just want to sell. They want to get rid of it or they're ready. They either don't have it or they don't want to share it with you. They don't have any pain. You just move on.

Jen:   If they legitimately have no pain, the needs of the people telling you they want retail price.

Joe:   Yeah.

Jen:   These aren't leads for me. Right. Like we said in the beginning, that every single person that calls the office is the right fit for you. And of course, there's going to be ways to try and negotiate people down on price and just entice them with what you've got to offer. But the end of the day, if you're convincing them to do it, they're probably going to call you back and cancel anyways. Or they're going to call you two days before closing and tell you they need a higher price or somebody else is going to call and overbid you by $100 and they're going to go it down this debt. Yeah. So if you are genuine and if you aren't having just a conversation with a person, you're just the two people talking about what's going on. If you're not compassionate, then of course, no, they're going to tell you. But if you are and you're just asking them questions about the situation and trying to understand what it is, and most importantly, you haven't given them permission to tell you no. They will talk to you because you're not going to get treated like a regular salesperson anymore.

Joe:   How do you give them permission to tell you No? What's your strategy for doing that?

Jen:   I tell people that I'm here to figure out what their situation is. See what's going on with them and see if I'm a good fit. If not, that's okay. I tell them very directly. You tell me. No. Yeah. If I feel a lot of resistance, I'll go ahead and just say it. Absolutely. Good point. Is saying on the phone with somebody who doesn't want what you're offering anyways, right? Isn't that always your own type?

Joe:   So how do you get down to their why? What are some of the questions you ask?

Jen:   Well, if you were to say let's use probate again, right? You would sell me that property. Has to go through probate. It's going to be given to you at the end of that. Then I start a dig on the probate process. Do you have a lawyer? Have you talked to anybody about how long this might take? And really get into that? And one of the solutions that I like to provide is actually helping them through the probate process. So Right. So you're out if there's other family members involved and how difficult that's been for them. Are you guys all fighting with each other and really just dig in to what they have so far? If they tell me that it's been a nightmare, then I'm going to be like, that's what everybody says. That probably is just their nightmare. Yeah. And really pile on that pain. If they've talked about if it's a house, for example, like I said, a lot of these strategies or you said it to you, a lot of these strategies are this real estate investment. Does it have to be just land? If they're a landlord and they're talking about having to make repairs, I'm going to ask them specific questions about those repairs and how many times they've had to change out of worrying and what was the last thing a tenant did and then really like be dramatic. Well, we were more talking about it. That sounds terrible. This is why I don't have rentals anymore. I really don't like tenants either. They don't care about my houses and just keep digging.

Joe:   That's good. All right. So you keep digging into you know, you talk about peeling the pain until you get to the real reason, not the superficial one. Sometimes your first time, you try to dig into what's their situation? It's kind of high level, you know, how do you dig deeper without just getting weird? Because I've had people ask me that. And again, I'm putting my own biases into this, but I get annoyed when they keep on asking me why, Why, why, why? Going deeper, deeper, deeper. And they want me to talk about how, you know, I was I wasn't potty trained as a kid and that's why I'm in your and I am afraid of people and I suck my thumb at night. So, you know, like they want me to get. I'm not saying any of that's true. I feel like it's none of your business. Like, can you go a little too far? Maybe into their pain and their why? That make sense?

Jen:   I mean, listen, I didn't. You could write, but I've not had that experience. Okay. One of the things that I like to tell a lot of my, you know, a lot of people that I work with as well is that we're not our avatars.

Joe:   Right. That's a good point.

Jen:   We're not the person who has such a giant real estate problem that we need us. Right. We're not done. We know too much. So the fact is that these people who are in a situation where they don't know what to do with it and they don't you know, they don't want to deal with it. They don't want to keep paying taxes. They don't want to fix it again. There's all these things when you educate them about who you are, how you can help, and then start figuring out what their situation is, you can just tell them very simply, Listen, if I don't understand what you're going through, then I'm not sure I'm going to be the right person to help you out then. Right. Very direct and probably painfully transparent with people. I'm also a huge educator on these calls. I'll explain to them, Hey, you've got options, right? You've. Got a piece of real estate. You can do one of two things here. You can find a realtor and you can sell it for the highest price. That's going to come with the most buyers backing out of contracts, the most contingencies, the most fees, the most commissions, the most inspections, the most surveys. You're going to get all this stuff and all this time. And even when you do get an offer that you like, you can't guarantee it. And so you actually show up to the closing date. Okay. So you can do that. Or you can work with someone like me. No inspection, no realtor fees, no commissions. As a matter of fact, I'm going to pay all the closing costs. This is cash, which means there's no bank involved to tell me what to do with my money. Now, this is going to be the lower offer. You're going to trade time for money here, and it's up to you, which is going to be the best fit for you. And I want you to do the thing that's the best fit for you. So you've got two choices. Does it sound like we should find you a realtor or do you think we should go ahead and keep talking about how I can help you out here?

Joe:   That's good. Okay, let's go to number four. Front load objections. How do you know, I'm assuming you say here that you're dressed. The most common objections upfront. What does that mean? What are some examples?

Jen:   Well, easy one. I get to talk to my wife or husband. Right. That's a classic example of how people avoid telling you yes or no at the end of the call. Well, I'm going to need to talk to my wife or husband. So make sure you ask them if there are other people involved in the decision. And don't make an offer until you've really if you can't get the other person on the phone. Okay. But you need to try your best to actually have both parties on the phone in the exact same time. I'll often ask people, is your wife home or not? Why not? What are they going to say? She'll need to talk to her. I would love to talk to her to make sure I answer any questions as she might have. You said that you guys are going to both decide this together, right, sir? Right. So get ahead of the things that people use as a reason to get off the phone with you later. I need to think about it. I pretty much I'm very direct with that one. Is there anything else you need to think about except for, you know, what my exact price is going to be? Do you feel like this is the right solution for you to just get it done fast, close at 21 days, not have to pay all those things. All of this is exactly what you want, right? It's really just about the price now. And make sure that you set aside everything. Bring all of those things up. Timeline is a really great one. Ask about how fast they want to do it. I'll even ask people. So if you and I agree on the price here today, I sent you an offer you're actually going to sign in today. Really? Ask them those. I mean, it's really just about being really candid, right? If you don't talk cryptically and you don't use big giant words and you just have conversations, these are people who actually have situations they need help with. So they're going to answer them, bring all of that stuff up upfront. People are going to bring up objections at the end randomly that you can't you know, you obviously can know every single one, but we all know the standard ones. So harness the power of those out front. You bring them up, talk about them, make sure that they're not something that they can just use against you at the end of the call.

Joe:   What if prices they're really, really their only objection. You know, how do you handle that?

Jen:   Well, they're not. It was that if somebody has a retail price in Lance, they're open to a seller financing situation. This is just not the right lead for me. Okay. I've worked with so many people that will argue with me on this one. Just because they call the office and want to sell their property doesn't make them a lead. All right. A lead is somebody who's actually willing to come off retail price in order to get other things out of this deal. So if they're a retail price guy, is this just gnarly for you? That's all. That's how I feel.

Joe:   Will you still send them an offer in the mail?

Jen:   I know you mean like if I know that they want retail price, would I still send they actually type an offer and send it to him? Yeah, no, probably not. I think that depending on how the conversation where I'm going to work, I'm really going to drive them towards finding a realtor. Hopefully I know a realtor that I can actually just refer them directly to you and help out my network of people. But I'm not a big believer in sending an offer to every single person, and instead I'll put them on like my follow up and I'll go and I'll see if the property got listed with a realtor. I may call them a 30, 60, 90 days. If I don't see the listing, come up and just call and say, Hey, you said you're going to list as a realtor, but you I don't see it online. Have you did you sell the property to another investor? Because the fact of the matter is, Joe, most people like we're fighting against inaction. Most people who don't sell to us end up doing nothing. They don't sell to someone else and they don't was the number one thing they do is actually nothing. Right. So I'll keep them on a follow up list and then just continue to watch.

Joe:   I do the same thing. But I also send them an offer. I don't know. This is something that my coach taught me from the very beginning. It's always send an offer to every person you talk to because sometimes, you know, seller just sellers just need time to cook. They need time to think about it. But whatever, even if you don't, the key to it is following up every 30, 60, 90 days, depending on their level of motivation. Right. So your goal looking at the objections here, is your goal is to get them to say yes or no by the end of the call. Is that right?

Jen:   Absolutely.

Joe:   Okay. That reminds me of another question I wanted to ask. How do you Because you want to get them to bring you whoever brings the price up first wins, Right. Whoever names the price first loses. It's not a win or lose type of thing. Right. But the goal is to get them to come up with a price first. All right. Adam, it's common in land where a lot of sellers just don't know what it's worth. Right. They just got a letter, and I like to send neutral letters out. All right. And I know the guy you work with sends blind offers. I like to send a postcard that says, Hey, if you want to sell your land, call this voicemail. So they call and they're like, well, I don't know what I want for you. You make an offer. What do you do in those kinds of conversations?

Jen:   I'll actually I'll double confirm that. So you haven't looked online at all for what property seller for in that area? You have no idea. And they still say no. I say, okay, well, then how about let's talk about what you paid for it. Would you be willing to sell it for more or for less than what you actually paid for it? Or are you looking to sell it for more than that and actually make.

Joe:   Good.

Jen:   Is I really care get things out of people. If I'm just asking and asking you ask. I'm not a fan of appraised value. I will never ask that question. Instead, I'll say, well, I thought property in that area for anywhere between 5000 and like maybe $35,000 is somewhere in that range. Sounds like a reasonable price.

Joe:   So you're setting an anchor, right?

Jen:   Yes. That's what the $5,000 is, is a very serious anchor so that they know that there's this, you know, range of prices there. The fact of the matter is, though, usually that what you paid for it will get it done.

Joe:   Yeah. I've never done that before. So one of the things I'll try to do is I have the property up on my computer and I'm looking at active listings and sold listings and I'll try to bring up, hey, you know what? I'm seeing similar properties here that have sold in the last year at about, you know, this price range. In a perfect world, I would need to be around there. That wouldn't work for you, would it?

Jen:   Or a great one. Yeah.

Joe:   Is that a right like or.

Jen:   I love that.

Joe:   Sometimes I'll say, What do you think would be a fair price? What would be a price range that would make you happy? I don't know. But yeah, it's. It's a tricky thing is a lot of people have that was specific, especially with land because there's not like a Zillow estimate where you can go online and see what your land is worth and people sometimes just don't know.

Jen:   But I actually I like the good. I'm going to call a little bias on that one, actually.

Joe:   Yeah, right. Tell me what you think.

Jen:   I think every single person who has spent 10 or 15 minutes on the phone talking to me about selling their property, I believe every single one of them actually knows their price.

Joe:   Okay.

Jen:   I can't imagine that you would waste all this time talking to me and not be ready to sell your property. Right? So if you're ready to sell it, you know what price you want. So I don't believe them. If they tell me they don't.

Joe:   Sell them, they're like, I don't believe you, that you don't know what it's worth.

 

Jen:   Pretty much Like, really? You haven't looked online at all. You haven't checked for you, but you've no idea what properties in that area are selling for right now. You don't know any of the neighbors. You haven't talked any really. And I most of the time, like, well, I know that so-and-so is probably right. Yeah. Most of the time. That's all I need to say. There are I think there are people, you know, who are holding it a lot tighter. And while you are me, make me an offer. Right. Okay, fine. How about this? I bought property in the area between this and this. Somewhere in that range. You think that that's going to be a fair price for your land if in between those numbers?

Joe:   Yeah.

Jen:   You know.

Joe:   That's good.

Jen:   I just. I just. I can't imagine somebody would talk to me for that long. I'm not that fine. Like, I'm not just somebody that you're going to talk to you also, if you don't have a reason to know specifically we're talking about your property, right? So I don't believe that one.

Joe:   That's good. All right. Final step to getting the. Yes. Number five. What is that?

Jen:   Connect your solutions to their pain, specifically their why? So at the end of the phone call, when I'm ready to make an offer, this might even be the second call, right? For a lot of people in real estate. Maybe it's not a one call close, which is totally fine. Do some research, run the comps, know where you can actually be. You call back and you say, Hey, great news. I've been able to put together my best offer and here's what I can do for you today. And then I unload a pile of value, all the things that I can do, I'm going to close fast. It's my own money and I'm explaining things in great detail. So instead of just saying I'm going to pay all the closing costs, I say I'm going to cover all the closing costs. That's the recording fee and the title search fee and the insurance fee. I'm going to pay every single one of them. There's no commissions. There's not any hidden fees. All of these are on me. And that's just closing costs.

Joe:   That's good. What else? Pile on the value right now. This is good. I've never I've never heard of a. This way before, but this is excellent.

Jen:   So when I say I'm going to close fast, you know, and that means I'm going to be you're going to have cash in your pocket in 30 days. You're going to see that money wired directly to your bank account. I'm going to make sure the title company had your information before the closing. So the exact same day that you get that paperwork and we sign all those closing docs is the exact same day that they're going to wire those. Find us directly to your bank account. There's no bank here to tell me what to do with my money. I don't have to worry about doing any surveys. I'm not going to ask you for a bunch of contingencies. Like, I'm not going to do an environmental study or a test or have a well company come out and find the aquifer and not I just all the details, right? Instead of just no inspections, I say no. And every single inspection, what else is there.

Joe:   This is good. Give us all of them.

Jen:   I'm trying to think I've actually I'm full time just coach now. So it's been it's been a second since I've dropped a, you know, a land offer.

Joe:   It's not really the normally, the benefits we start off really quickly are like no one no inspections or no contingencies. All cash close in 30 days, no realtor commissions to pay. You know, you've kind of touched on all of that already, just what you said.

Jen:   Yeah, I just I make it all very, very specific. Right? Like I said, with the closing costs, I actually whatever on the settlement statement, I see every single one of them. I tell them, I tell them that I'm going to make sure the title company is actually doing their job. I'm going to check in with them and make sure that the title committee gets done very quickly. And then I'm going to review that and make sure we have no problems. So just a lot of detail there.

Joe:   Yeah. With land, you could probably add some things in there like, you know, I'll take care of any surveys that are needed. I'll take care of if there's any utilities that need to be brought to the property, I'll worry about the environmental studies. If you're in Florida and there's. Yes. What's that scrub jay that you need to worry about, Right? I thought I would take where I say.

Jen:   There's tortoises there too. Yeah, I have a couple of things I don't have to deal with. The tortoise. Yeah.

Joe:   Yep, yep. If, you know, if there is, I want to say like.

Jen:   This other than.

Joe:   Yeah, yeah. Well not take make sure all the taxes are current and brought up to date and all the paperwork is done properly and correctly. I love that. Like if you are listening to this, you should have just taken a bunch of notes from what everything we just said. And when you're presenting your offer, make this a part of that As you're talking about this so good. We'll do any clearing that we need to do to get the property.

Jen:   Yeah I was going to say that.

Joe:   I don't know, pictures, maybe inspections.

Jen:   Well, I'll just say I'm going to buy the property. Exactly how it states right now. I'm not going to actually cut down any of those trees. I don't need you to put in a driveway for me. Don't worry about if it's a house and or.

Joe:   What needs to the property or doing a perc test.

Jen:   If they worry about it. Yeah. If it's a house and a job, I don't even need you to sweep the floors. You leave the property. Exactly how it's set. I'll take care of that couch. You don't want any more, that's all that it that the dogs and lay it on all of it. Whatever applies in any real estate situation. Just all of it. And in great detail.

Joe:   Okay so good. Yeah. Million dollar idea right there. I hope you guys paying attention and writing all that down because that is just as you were just mentioning all those things. I'm thinking. Yes, that's awesome. Great. Like I'd put myself in the mind of the seller like, yeah, I didn't even think about worrying about that. And now I don't have to worry and elicit those things. And you, like Jenn knows what she's talking about. She knows how all of this stuff works. I can trust her, take care of it all, and I don't have to worry about anything.

Jen:   Absolutely. That's why I. I call it my value pile.

Joe:   I love that. The value pile. Okay, good. Anything else before we move on from that that you wanted to add to the value pile?

Jen:   Well, the very last thing. Right? So there's a fill in the blank at the end of the value pile because most of this can be said to every single right. But then right at the end the fill in the blanks and says the solution to their specific problem. So it's a pile value and then a solution to their problem. And I'm going to make sure that we get through this probate process as easily as possible. I'm going to be able to explain everything. I'll make sure that anybody who needs to sign anything is contacted. I'll take care of all of that so that this is just not an enormous burden on your life and you don't have to take off work for it. I'll make sure that we get everything taken care of that way. Yeah, and I can do that for price shutter. Now that's a he who speaks first loses moment in the call. Okay, so a giant pile of value, a specific solution for their problem. Right? How you're going to help heal their pain price and they shut up.

Joe:   I'm writing notes. This is good.

Jen:   I take that as high praise from a gentleman like Joe McCall.

Joe:   Because we kind of pass over that so quickly. And it's important to spend a little more focus time on that. And it also shows them that you are listening and paying attention to them and they say no to that. Okay, cool. Anything else you want to mention too? Step five We got to hurry up and wrap this up. Anything else?

Jen:   No, I actually the close is probably the easiest part for me. I know a lot of people are stressed out about it, and we even call great salespeople closers. But I think the best salespeople are actually conversationalists. Yeah, they're able to just talk to people. Right? So great. Be more casual. Don't be so salesy. Don't act like that New York City salesman. These are just conversations. Right. And what's the worst thing that's going to happen?

Joe:   No offense to you all from New York City.

Jen:   Yeah, no offense there, New York City. I do love you.

Joe:   Cool. All right. So, Jen, how could people get a hold of you? I put the website up on the screen there. Sales the Jen Way.com. What do they get when they go there?

Jen: Actually as a special gift to anybody listening to the Joe's either YouTube channel or podcasts or wherever you're listening to this video as a special gift for all of you. I want to offer you a free one hour, one on one.

Joe:   Come on. All right.

Jen:   We're going to talk about your sale system. I'm going to poke holes in it and tell you where I think that you can improve and give advice as I can in that one hour. So make sure you all, if you want to talk to me, make sure you don't need a budget that four hours of time. So I want to spend time actually talking about what you're doing. Give any advice that I can and talk about some best practices. If you want to role play some calls. If there are specific parts of the call that you keep getting hung up on, then get Ahold of me. Call me. Let's talk about those specific things. You've heard me for a whole hour. You're not going to get a VA call or have to go through any finals. You don't have to fill out a forms on my website. You just get straight to me and I'm actually going to give you my direct phone number as well. My website is up here, but my phone number is (786) 390-9037. Make sure you tell me that you heard me on Joe's podcast so I don't try to cut you off. It's 15 minutes. I'm actually going to give me that falsetto. Okay. So make sure you tell me this is where you heard me. We'll do a whole one hour review. I'll give you any and all advice I can to help you absolutely free.

Joe:   And again, your number was (786) 390-9037. Is that right?

Jen:   Yes, sir.

Joe:   That goes to you.

Jen:   It goes direct to me. I live answer. I'm a big fan of live answer.

Joe:   You sound like Claude Diamond.

Jen:   Claude's a great guy. I do. I know him well, actually.

Joe:   Yeah. Claude. Claude, the man. The myth, the legend. Well, Jen, thank you so much for being on the show. Sales the Jen way.com or (786) 390-9037. And to get that free one hour strategy coaching call with her. It is awesome I appreciate it Jen thank you so much. Appreciate you being on the show. Thank you.

Jen:   Joe, thank you. Have a wonderful rest of your day.

Joe:   All right, guys, listen. Stack on the pile of value, right? That is such a great gold nugget. I love that stack on the pile of value. When you're making your offers, give the sellers, like, overwhelming reasons to say yes and remind them of those things. We take it for granted. We just like all we just assume they know what it means. It will cover all the closing costs, but they don't let them feel like all the weight in the value of that. That's so good. All right. See you guys later. Take care, everybody.