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  • 136 » Land Deals: There’s A Pig For Every Barn » Mark Podolsky

REIM 136Hey investors, thanks for joining us for another info-packed episode of my REI podcast. Alex and I are quizzing our guest, Mark Podolsky, on all things land deals. Mark has seriously mastered this niche of real estate investing, and we’re getting all the knowledge he has to share – and it’s A LOT.

You’ll hear Mark explain how he does owner financing in land to create amazing passive monthly income; how he makes his offers; where and how he finds the deals; his thoughts about landlocked lots; exactly how he automates his business and the tools he uses, and really, so much more…

So, dig in for all that and to hear whether Alex and I will say if, in fact, Mark does have the best passive income model.

Listen and enjoy:

What's inside:

  • 1:25 – How Joe became the lucky recipient of an Apple iWatch
  • 4:00 – Mark tells us about his 2 podcasts, which one has more followers and which one Joe was a guest on
  • 7:00 – Joe talks about whether he’ll jump into doing land deals
  • 8:00 – How Mark is able to make cash flow through land
  • 11:47 – Is it hard to cash flow empty raw land?
  • 15:50 – Why Mark says it’s actually not hard to find these incredible, discounted land deals
  • 18:14 – How Mark chooses his markets to flip land
  • 21:55 – Why you shouldn’t be a ‘land snob’ (hint: check out this episode’s title)
  • 27:07 – Mark’s repo rate
  • 31:00 – Alex presents Mark with a land scenario and Mark tells us the surprising way he says it can be sold the fastest
  • 34:33 – How and why Mark makes his offers very specific
  • 41:30 – How Mark specifically uses Podio in his business
  • 49:07 – Mark tells us one of his biggest mistakes and how he avoids it from happening again
  • 59:00 – Mark explains how you can get to $10,000 a month in passive income

Mentioned in this episode:



Download episode transcript in PDF format here…

Intro:    Welcome, this is the Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast.

Joe:    Hey, everybody. Welcome! This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast. And I am Joe McCall and I am with the one and only chess champion, Alex Joungblood.

Alex:    Yeah man, how are you?

Joe:   I'm doing well, Alex. We're in the middle of a game right now and I'm looking at it on my phone. Those of you guys that…

Alex:    We've still not met, but we have now engaged in the route of playing chess together.

Joe:    Yeah, we're playing this online chess thing from our smart phone called chess with friends. And I, I can tell already Alex is pretty good, he's going to be better that I am.

Alex:    Oh, come on now.

Joe:    So anyway, yeah, so, I don't know what else to say.

Alex:    So, but we're not playing chess with friends, we're doing deals and making money, right?

Joe:    Yes, we are. Got a check the other day for $6,800 bucks.

Alex:    Sweet! Now did you, well you might already said that one!

Joe:    Did I?

Alex:    Well it's okay, it's okay, you know. It's okay to love the check.

Joe:    I'm still excited, you know what I… I can't tell you what I got the other day. I got an iWatch, I mean an Apple watch from a friend that I… he goes to my church, I helped him taught him a little bit about the business and he's done a couple of deals and he and his wife, surprised me…

Alex:    He gave an Apple iWatch?

Joe:    With an Apple iWatch, yeah, it's awesome.

Alex:    That's sweet! I was in the store the other day, looking at that.

Joe:   It's pretty cool. I'm a Mac kid and fan boy and I'm proud to admit it, I love Apple products. Okay, so I… listen, I want to get onto this show with Mark because…

Alex:    Yeah, let's get him on here.

Joe:    He… we, we always… there's somebody that we're going to be interviewing in a couple months, I think yeah, sometime in early December we're going to be interviewing him and I, he was leaving a review, this particular guy on someone else's podcast and he made this comment, he says, “Unlike all the other shows out there that take forever to get to the point, I love your show because you get right to the point.”

Alex:    Get right to the point?

Joe:    Yeah, yeah, and his initials are Clayton Morris, so we're going to be interviewing Clayton Morris from Fox News and friends in about a couple month or two. So he was leaving a review on Tom Kroll's podcast and I thought that was funny. Oh shoot! Here we are again, you know, just rambling on with our own introduction to this show and…

Alex:    Here we go again.

Joe:    Yeah, well, it's all good, but… right so, we got a great on the show today, Mark Podolsky, Podolsky, Mark Podolsky. I'm sorry Mark for butchering your name, but Mark interview…

Mark:    Podolsky.

Joe:    Podolsky.

Mark:    Yeah, it's a nice Russian name, like Smith or Jones.

Joe:    It is. Where are you from by the way? Or where is your family from?

Mark:    Like, like in Russia, or United States? I'm originally from Saint Louis.

Joe:    Oh, no way. Go kart?

Mark:    Go kart, no, go emos.

Joe:    Oh no.

Mark:    Although cheese…

Joe:    Oh no, we're not going that far. Don't go that far.

Mark:    So you're not originally from Saint Louis?

Joe:    No, I'm not originally…

Mark:    And then the big thing is like, “What high school did you go to?”

Joe:    Oh no, it's so lame.

Mark:    Yeah.

Joe:    Okay, well is your family from Russia?

Mark:    Yeah, I mean originally, sure.

Joe:    Okay.

Mark:    I think from the town of Podolsk.

Joe:    Really?

Mark:    In 1800, yeah.

Joe:    Interesting, wow. So you're from St. Louis, though?

Mark:    Originally from St. Louis, I live in Scottsdale, Arizona now.

Joe:    Okay.

Mark:    And Arizona and I love it.

Joe:    So Mark interviewed yours truly on his podcast and I just released it at the other day. What your podcast is called the Land Geek, right Mark?

Mark:    You know, I got two, I got the Land Geek podcast and I got the Best Passive Income Model podcast, where I put all my guests on the spot and say, “Explain my business model,” which I would explain to you guys and say, “Do I have the best passive income model?” So it'd be interesting to see what Alex has to say.

Joe:    Well, you see, he put me on the spot, Mark did and he asked me that question. So was I on the Land Geek podcast or the best…

Mark:    You're on Best Passive Income Model.

Joe:    Which one is your bigger one?

Mark:    Best Passive Income, cause Land Geek is just, it's just archive, now we don't update it anymore. There's like 90 of those and they're all devoted to land, where you know, I want to get experts from other niches in real estate and just business in general to talk about general success, so that's what I do now.

Joe:    So Alex, I wonder if Mark thinks that land is the best passive income model in real estate?

Alex:    I'm thinking he might think so cause there's no tenants, toilets or troubles.

Mark:    Yes, see, there you go, there you go.

Joe:    You see Mark asked me the question, Mark asked me the same question. I tell you what, cause I'm not going to tell you what I said, because I want you to go to his show and listen to it and it's a really good podcast, I've enjoyed listening to it and Mark is a great host, he is more entertaining than we are, no I'm just kidding. But it's, it's a good show and go find it! What's the website they can go listen to it, Mark?

Mark:   I would just go to TheLandGeek.com and then you just kind of get in there and from there like we'll just start sending it to you. And you know, once you get in that list, Joe we don't stop sending you stuff, it's, you know…

Alex:    Wow, he's open, honest and…

Mark:    You like, it's like we're just, we just wanted to overwhelm you with the Land Geek love until you unsubscribe and so you know what? The way Joe McCall is just a breath of fresh air.

Joe:    Yeah, right. Right. Well, I…

Mark:    If you're interested in the land thing, it's great, it's great.

Joe:    So go to the show and listen to it, find the one that I'm on, I just saw the email come out the other day about my episode and you can listen to how I answered the question. I, I'd say I'll give you a little clue, I agreed mostly to… well I'm looking here and I can't find it, Mark. Is it still… is it on here yet… me?

Mark:    Maybe in the queue, I don't know, we… yeah.

Joe:    Why, I thought I got an email.

Mark:    It should be there.

Joe:    It is, from August 27th. It's been on there for a while.

Mark:    Oh, okay.

Joe:    I just got an email about it, so I'm wondering if your emails are a little delayed out. Anyway it's episode something, it says, “Mark chats with Joe McCall from RealEstateInvestingMastery.com,” and I remember I partially agreed with you, because I was in the Czech Republic when we were talking, I was in Prague and my team was doing deals in the United States in about two or three different markets without much of my involvement at all and so there's a… that's kind of were… what my answer was. But I really like land, Mark. I do and I've never looked at or tried to start investing in it, although I am on the fence, I am really on the fence like, should I? Is it really that easy? Is it a good idea or is it just a distraction? Is it just another shiny object? So I'd like to ask you some questions about that and feel free to sell me and all of our listeners and how awesome land is, you have our permission, is that okay, Mark?

Mark:    Yeah, yeah, I mean, no problem. And I think, you know, traditionally speaking when you talked about traditional land, nobody likes land, it doesn't appreciate, doesn't cash flow. It is a problem until you go into its highest and best use, right? Which is typically development, so land is kind of this non-competitive niche and the way that I kind of work my program is that we make land cash flow through owner financing and we do it on a car payment and we looked for people that are advertising to us, they want their property anymore. So we're kind of narrowing this down, people who live out of state and owe back taxes. Well here's a… here's an example; I just bought a piece of property, so 160 acres in Nevada, right? And we paid $6,000 for that part and had $180 in back taxes. We flipped it four days later for $54,000, so…

Joe:    Awesome!

Mark:    Which is below market. Now, do we always have big deals like that? No, I mean typically, you know, we try to do a car payment and we try to make 1,000% on our owner financing deals, so we create the note, in which I had to make a 300% ROI on our cash flips. So you know, I've done deals where I paid, you know, $200 for peace property and sold it for $1,200, $99 down, $99 a month, right? In two months my money's out. So you can get those types of deals.

But the nice thing about this niche, is you don't need any money at all to get going, where that's where the wholesalers, that's kind of the draw of wholesalers, it's like, I don't need a lot of money, I can just assign the contract to somebody else and make this spread. Well in land, you don't really need any money. I've done deals where we'll lock it up on an option, would do our due diligence, we won't close on it, we'll find the buyer, right? We'll sell it retail and the buyer will then pay for that property and will do a dual closing.

Joe:    We do land contracts.

Mark:    Yeah, so with the land contracts, we don't even pay for the costs of foreclosure, so it's, it's an amazing model because we have this amazing monthly passive income coming in without having to deal with the tenant, without having to deal with any rehabs or renovations or rodents, right? At the one-time sale you keep that recurring income. I called the ultimate subscription model, nothing to protect, nothing to maintain, we don't have to deal with safe act, RESPA, Dodd Frank because we’re not dealing with the tenant. So land is exempt. Alex, do I have the best passive income model? Oh by the way it's a non-competitive niche, right? Nobody goes on TV and see he's flipped his land.

Alex:    Hey, there you go.

Mark:    Are you in?

Alex:    You got started, you can start it.

Joe:    You got to answer his question, Alex!

Alex:    Is at the best?

Mark:    Well, I tell you what, what's better?

Alex:    Well, how about…

Mark:    I don't think it's… because I'm open to it.

Alex:    ….In the case of being able to acquire it, and I mean wouldn't rentals… although rentals have a lot more liability, a lot more issues that go along with them, would rentals be more easy to cash flow? Would… is it hard? Is it hard to find a way to cash flow empty raw land? I mean is it…

Mark:    No, I've…

Joe:    It's easy to find the buyer.

Mark:    I've done 5, I've done over 5,000 deals, I've never been stuck with piece of property, and because we're buying it 23 cents on the dollar, there's always someone on the other end of that transaction, always. You can wholesale it and make money.

Joe:    All right, but when you say passive, this is what some of the questions I wanted to dig in and ask you about. It is a wonderful passive income model, but finding the deals and finding the buyers, that's not very passive, is it?

Mark:    Well, if you are doing it yourself, right? Which you have to do in the very beginning, you got to learn the program and the system and then you Podio it, you create systems, you create automation, you build your team, and then next thing you know, here's three months in the Czech Republic watching your property report. So how many deals do we buy? How many deals do we sell? How many are pending? And it’s just like any business, Joe.

Joe:    Yeah.

Mark:    You want… you want to Podio it, so until you've come to that point, and you've built your machine, you, you… what you've done that is to build yourself another job, which nobody wants to do, so you know, so like none of dependency, if you're not working, you're not making any money, is… it's not a great long-term strategy. So we can start this out as you being the technician and then once you get enough confidence, you outsource 90% of this business and you just work on the strategy.

Joe:    Well, you're buttering me up, so you can get me to say that it's… But this Podio stuff, you're buttering me up, so I get to say that it's the best passive income model.

Mark:    But it is the best passive income model, Joe. It is.

Joe:    Okay, so…

Mark:    I tell you what's better. Honestly I really thought about it, long and hard. The only thing better than my model is life insurance, because it's just an idea, you don't even have to buy any… anything, right? It's just an idea and you got that one-time sale and recurring income, until they die.

Joe:    You mean selling life insurance?

Mark:    Selling life insurance.

Alex:    You mean by renewal of a whole life insurance?

Mark:    Yeah, well just selling life insurance, because everybody needs it for the most part. It's just no fun, it's just not fun to sell, but that is the best passive income model.

Joe:    Nah, I didn't know about that.

Mark:    I don't know, I mean.

Joe:    That's tongue and cheek.

Mark:    What's better than selling idea one time and then getting money for the rest of your life? You don't even have to buy anything, you could just be a broker and you can make a very nice living.

Joe:    All right, let's tie it into this land stuff.

Mark:    I digress.

Joe:    All right, so… it's, it's… I get it that you… well I don't want to be a naysayer, but I want to pretend like I am, right now, okay?

Mark:    Okay.

Joe:    Because I'd always get annoyed when I get asked these questions.

Mark:    Sure.

Joe:    But isn't it, it's too hard to find tons of property… to find properties with that much of a discount, I mean you're talking 20 cents on the dollar, isn't…

Mark:    Yeah, I mean I don't think you realize how big our market is, we have no hedge funds, we have no private equity groups playing in this niche, so you got 2.3 billion acres, right? There are over 126 million people that owe back taxes in this country; there are over 3,000 counties, right? And you got millions of millions of acres of land and basically our market is so big, you will run out of money, even you, Joe McCall, will run out of money before you run out of deal flow. And if you send out let's say 100 offers, 3 to 5% will get accepted and in that 3 to 5% you might close, let's say conservatively, 1 to 2%. Well if we do the math, how many deals do you need to do to move the needle? You don't need that many, right?

Joe:    So, yeah there's a lot of land out there, I get it.

Mark:    Yeah.

Joe:    But let's talk about demand then, like…

Mark:    Right, so I don't know if you ever heard of this program out there, it's very small National Geographic Preppers…

Joe:    Preppers.

Mark:    Right? So there's huge, there's millions of people in the country, in the world that are hoping for the best, but they're preparing for the worst, right? So they want a place to bug out to, we also have people who want recreational property; they want property that has no restrictions. There are people that just don't like people, a lot of the military people, they want something they can call their own. And unfortunately if you go in areas, in urban areas, land is very, very expensive.

But if you go into the more rural areas it's very affordable and over the way, the way that we create these notes, it's a car payment, so everybody can afford 149 a month or 249 a month. You know, I got some notes at 2000 a month, it just depends on where you are in life and you know, for the most part, what we call legacy investors, they hold it, they might go out there and visit, they might go ride their ATVs out there, they might camp, they might hunt, but for the most part they just like owning an asset that they know they don't have to maintain, they don't have to protect, it's always there for them in case they need it and it's very easy to own.

Joe:    So what percent of your deals are you selling with a note, like for monthly payments versus just selling with cash?

Mark:    I mean, I try to do everything with a note now. When I first started, I just, I had a, I had some relationship issues, Joe. So I didn't want to relationships, so I just flip, flip, flip and you know, I thought to myself, “Oh, my gosh, this is a hustle. I got to constantly buy and sell, buy and sell; there should be a better way.” And that's when I started to…

Alex:    It is a hustle.

Mark:    Yeah, it's a hustle. So I stopped doing that and now I really just try to do all owner financing if I can. Now there are some deals I was going to pay off early or the land itself, the market wants just a quick cash flip.

Joe:    Yeah. So where do you pick your markets, like… are you just focused on in Arizona cause that's where you live or you focus bigger than that?

Mark:    Yeah, so that's a great thing about raw land too is with Google Earth and a local Craigslist gig or WeGoLook.com, my playground is huge, it's scalable, I can buy a raw land anywhere in the country now. I personally like the Southwest, a little bit in the Northwest, California and Florida. So nobody wakes up, Joe, and thinks to themselves, boy it'd be great to own some land in Missouri, right? Unless you live in Missouri.

Alex:    Oh, wait a second.

Mark:    So you got a smaller kind of niche market, so but people like the idea of owning property in Nevada, in Arizona, you know Florida, California, New Mexico, Colorado, those areas, right?

Joe:    Yeah, okay.

Mark:    So that's, I mean, it's again, it's a big market.

Joe:    So you don't, you would not try to do deals in Missouri?

Mark:  I've done deals in Missouri, I don't look for them.

Joe:    Don't you think you could sell them on owner financing?

Mark:    I definitely have and I can, it's just… again I'd rather have this big a buyer pool as possible.

Joe:    Okay, so you're, you're looking for buyers, obviously just like with regular traditional house wholesaling; you follow the money where the demand is.

Mark:    Correct.

Joe:    Okay, so you're going after California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, where there's probably a lot of other competition going for these deals for… for this land, right?

Mark:    Yeah, I mean again, you, me, 100,000 other people, right? We will run out of money before we run out of land. So I always say to my coaching clients because it is a scarcity kind of mentality.

Joe:    Right, right.

Mark:    If everyone starts doing this, there's not going to be enough deals. I tell everybody the same thing. I've been doing this since 2000 and I've never talked to a seller who says, “Hey, Mark, got your offer, have two others just like it and yours is the lowest.” It's never happened.

Alex:    That is true.

Joe:    Okay, all right. So let's talk about how you're finding these deals, you're going where the demand is, you're looking at California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona. I get… I imagine any state where there's a lot of sand.

Mark:    Any state where there's a lot of sand? Yeah, so I'm going to these, these big areas, these bigger counties and there's like one county in Texas that has like 20,000 parcels for sale. I mean, it's, it's, it's crazy how a bunch of property…

Joe:    Okay so, now who are you targeting? Are you targeting people who already have their parcels for sale or…?

Mark:    No, no, no, I meant, I'm targeting people who are advertising to me, their parcels are for sale because they owe back taxes. If they don't eventually pay their taxes, that property goes to a tax lean, where tax deed sale. So the clock is ticking, they're eventually going to lose that property, that's a low-hanging fruit.

Joe:    Okay.

Mark:    Right. And especially they live out of state, I mean you know, if you own property, Joe, in Arizona and I know by looking at the, the treasures of role of people that owe back taxes that you live in St. Louis, well you have no emotional attachment to that property. Annual back taxes, you're most likely to take something instead of getting nothing.

Alex:    There's got to be though, I mean areas that are just desert and desolate and nobody in the world would want to live there for any possible reason or…

Mark:    Alex, I have to tell you, there's a pig for every barn. I've lost hundreds of thousands of dollars being a land snob my first two years in this business and I watched a buddy of mine, I mean, this stuff was so ugly, so in the middle of nowhere, such bad access and I thought myself you, you're either going to get sued or you're going to never be able to sell this property. And he would keep emailing me sale, after sale, after sale, and I would keep emailing him back the same thing of subject line, refund, refund, lawsuit. It never happened. So then I started, you know, stop being a snob about it and there is a pig for every barn. Here's a good example, Scott Todd was one of my coaching clients, made a mistake in his due diligence, he bought a mud pit in Florida, a mud pit. He flipped it at a $21,000 profit to a guy that wanted to ride his ATV in a mud pit and he sent him a video and he loves it.

Joe:    Wow, wow.

Alex:    There's literally is a pig for every barn.

Mark:    There is, there really is. So you know, just like, just like if you're in the housing market, you though oh I'll never buy inner-city property or you know, something that's a little bit kind of more rundown, you know, kind of this low in housing things. You know, people put their nose up to them. You know, even I would never live there, but there's people that, that's what they can afford and that's what they like, you know, or even mobile home market, right? So I'm not a snob anymore.

Joe:    Well do you, do you still do land, making lots in the inner-city?

Mark:    I won't, because inner-city lots have some issues as far as restrictions, right? They want you to mow those lots.

Alex:    Oh yeah.

Mark:    Yeah, so unless I can sell it really quickly to a neighbor, I will never put money down on it, I might lock it up, you know, I'd give myself 30 days to see if I can find a buyer for it and make my 300% or 1,000%, but if I don't I won't close.

Joe:    Let's talk about that… when… how do you make your offers? Do you make them contingent on something that gives you time to try to find a buyer for it?

Mark:    Yeah, absolutely.

Joe:    How does like, what does that look like?

Mark:    Yeah, there's always an escape clause, so usually I would say in our offer, I mean, I had to like pull it up, but there's just… there's legal list in it, right? That says this is, “We have… We reserve the right to back out of this at any time.”

Joe:    So how much time so you give yourself then?

Mark:    So we usually, you know, we give them a 14 day close, now between you and me, it takes a couple hours to do due diligence and get a title report done and all that. Now if it's a bigger deal, let's say its $5000 or more, I'll use a title company and we'll just go… we'll just go through title, that's easy.

Joe:    No but, like… So you're giving, well you buy the land before you…?

Mark:    You sell properties in 30 days or less.

Joe:    So, you don't close on it till… you, you, you feel comfortable that I've closing on it before you even have a buyer for if?

Mark:    If, yeah, correct. If there's enough information that, you know, I've got enough data that says you have done this 100 times in this area, we'll sell… we'll buy it. But if it's a new area, like Alex's inner-city lot, right? Then no, I won't buy it until I can find a buyer.

Joe:    Okay.

Mark:    Yeah, I'm real risk-averse.

Joe:    So you just feel good about… you know this is a good enough area, I'm familiar enough with it; I know I can find a buyer on this? And I imagine if you're selling these things with owner financing, what are you asking for down, up front typically?

Mark:    I usually get my money out on the down, but if I can't and the markets say to me, “No, it's too high,” then I'll try to get my money out no longer than 12 months or you know, or it's… but you know, ideally six months or less. Now what's interesting though is if I ever did need cash, is that we can sell that note, right? And get my cash out. We're so partial on that note, so I might get my money out and sell 12 months of those payments to an investor.

Alex:    Partials are very powerful.

Mark:    Partials are really powerful.

Alex:    What's… it's almost like, you know…

Mark:    Alex, go ahead and say it, don't be shy. I have them…

Alex:    But you deal with tenants.

Mark:    What?

Alex:    You deal with tenants, right?

Mark:    I don't deal with tenants.

Alex:    No, no, no, but this is what I'm saying, you're dealing with tenants, and you've got… the tenants like… okay I going to pay my rent, I got to pay my cable, I got to pay my car note, I got to pay for my other car note, whatever it is and then you know, they're like oh… and then you know, maybe, maybe after that then I'll pay my rent. So the people that you're selling to, it's not necessarily a necessity, so what's your repo rate? Let me put it that way, as far as having to deal with people who are not paying on their note.

Mark:    Right, right. So the repo rate, depending on the economy is at best 10% and at worst 30%. And honestly like, I don't care if they, if I have to get it back because we have that system in place, we'll sell it again for another down, get another person in there. It's just a numbers game.

Alex:    Right, right.

Mark:    So, you know, we're just shuffling paper, making money.

Alex:    Right, right.

Mark:    Go ahead Alex! Do you want to say it? You'll feel better saying it.

Alex:    Say what?

Mark:    Mark, you have the best passive income model.

Joe:    But you…

Mark:    It, it, it's like liberating, go ahead and say it!

Alex:    Well, what I… what… okay, so give me an example of something that or what your students bought recently for cheap money and then sold it on an owner finance and then what type of cash flow stream are you looking at?

Mark:    All right, so I'll tell you right now. If I go, I'm going to go to my website because I just put this up on success stories. This is just, this is something I just copy and pasted from our Facebook group. So Chris Prichard started five months ago, he's got $90,000 now and note portfolios; he's making $1,500 bucks a month passive. So if this deal isn't great case study on how this land business can really pay off, I just sold land on contract with the total payments of $35,700 over 84 months. It was $2,700 now for the buyer including $199 doc fee, the payment is $425 a month.

Then he wrote, okay fine, it's not the best deal ever so far, right? This is where it gets really good, I did a double closing of this land with zero dollars out-of-pocket, the sellers are old and give up on the land a few years ago, they owed about 6000 in taxes and 1700 in back owed HOA dues. I used my special itemized full cost closing technique; I set up a $97 to the land, of which I pay $6,000 to the taxes and $1,700 to HOA fees. HOA fees netting you a check of $2000. Now remember, he's putting $2,000 out of pocket, he sold it for $35,700, he got $2,700 down.

Now I said, I think it's important to show that I won't go in those whole things. Okay, so anyway the down payment for the bio cover the cost of acquiring a land, plus $700 goes right my pocket. I will put the taxes and fees on a payment plan and pay them down the payments on land, about $100 a month. Not a dime of my money will ever go into any of this land. Oh, the kicker is that I still have one more lot that I get free and clear that I still get to sell. The main deal is three adjacent lots, totaling 4 acres; the freebie is a 1.8 lot which is listed for $7,500 or about $10,000 after interest. I just wanted to demonstrate the power you possess in your hands when you work the system, Chris Prichard.

Alex:    Let me ask you this, let's say…

Mark:    Do you want to say it? Do not burn yourself!

Alex:    Let's say I go… you know, my area is pretty interesting here, I can go… you know, I'm in a suburban area, I guess you can say, and you go half hour to one direction to the east or half direct… east you're in the water at the, in Virginia Beach, if you go a half hour west you're out in the sticks. So let's say I start looking in the sticks for people who got delinquent taxes and such, and I find somebody who's got a big chunk of land with delinquent taxes, it's not really a developable, developable piece, there's no utilities to it. It's just grass sitting there doing nothing. How do I make money on that and how do I sell it? Let's say I got somebody, they say, “Yeah, go ahead, take this!”

Mark:    Alex, what you're saying is this is not a property that Alex would want to own, right? I agree with you, that's the property I personally wouldn't want to own, but if we go back to there's a pig for every barn, there is somebody that wants to own that property.

Alex:    How do I sell it? What's my fastest way to sell it?

Mark:    So the fastest way to sell it is the neighbor, because now you're going to send them a…

Alex:    Neighbor?

Mark:    You're going to send them a letter and say, “Hey, I just bought this piece of property, I'm going to take it to the open market, I want to give you the opportunity to control whom your neighbor is,” right?

Alex:    A-ha…

Mark:    There's fear there, “Oh, my gosh, who's going to bill right next to me. Who am I going to have to deal with?” The neighbor is the quickest and the fastest and the most lucrative, but let's say they pass. Well now you have a potential piece of deal flow, well, how come you don't want it? Do you want to sell your property? Now I got two adjacent lots, right?

Alex:    Right.

Mark:    So we can keep doing that, now we got something even more packageable. But let's say for example that the neighbors pass and you've got to sell that property super-fast. Again, the clock is ticking on our model, we only have 30 days, we want velocity, right? So where's the easiest and quickest way to go? Craigslist! It's free, right?

Alex:    Of course, Craigslist, yeah.

Mark:    So we can go to Craigslist, we can go to BackPage, we can go to LandAndFarm.com, we go to LandFlip.com, we can go to LandWatch.com. So we already have this built-in buyer base of people…

Alex:    You can even list it on the MLS too if you wanted to.

Mark:    Yeah, you could go to Zillow, you could list it in MLS, you could do Postlets, you could do all these things that are very, very inexpensive for marketing. Does that answer the question?

Alex:    Okay, yeah I just…. I'm just like again I'm thinking about a certain area in my market, which again is in the sticks and its way out there and just like man, I wonder who in the world, what would they want to do with it? They're just sitting there doing nothing, I mean.

Joe:    Well, you know, with surprising, what's interesting to about this, if you… I know a guy in Texas, who is owns about 90 notes on homes and what he's done is, he goes into small towns and he actually targets small towns of like or 4 or 5,000 people in them.

Mark:    Is this Mitch?

Joe:    No.

Mark:    Oh, okay.

Joe:    He might be a student of Mitch, Mitch's, because he's talked about Mitch before.

Mark:    Okay.

Joe:    And so what he does is he gets his… he gets his properties for just… sometimes for free, sometimes for five grand, they're totally trashed and he sells them with owner financing, right?

Mark:   Right.

Joe:    Well here's the cool thing what he does, he sticks a sign, he sticks a sign in the yard, once in a while he'll stick signs in the neighborhood. But he says, you'll be shocked how many people from that little town will call that sign and it will have the cash to buy that house. He says it's amazing to him and he says he gets calls like this all the time. Yeah, you know I got my mom in my basement and I want to get her out of the house and I'll buy this one. Or it'll be the dad who's got his son, he won't leave his house and then I got to get him off my couch. So it's these, it's these guys that are selling, trying to buy house for somebody else in their family. So I was surprised to hear that, how he sells them so easily with just signs in the yard.

Mark:    Yeah, I mean, so we're doing kind of the same thing, but we're just doing digitally, so we can really scale this one.

Joe:    So to talk about how you make your offer, how about how do you calculate your offer? When you're sending out marketing…

Mark:    So, so yeah, basically what we do is we look at some comps, right? And then we do our backwards calculation, you know, because… I really want to make 300% worst-case on the cash flip. So that's all we do, so if we see that the properties are going for… what $4000, right? Then the most I'll buy that property for is a thousand dollars.

Joe:    Okay.

Mark:    So it's pretty, pretty easy. Now, and that's another great advantage of land is, it's true that last piece in real estate, where nobody knows what the hell the value is, right? It's truly what a buyer and seller agree to.

Alex:    Oh, something just hit me.

Mark:    Yes.

Alex:    That would rival your best passive cash flow scenario. Notes, in general will.

Mark:    Yeah, you know what? You're absolutely right, they will! I love notes, so there's, there's definitely no argument on the note piece as long as you're buying the right asset, right? So… because your notes, they're going to pay or they're not. And you've got to know, then it's an underwriting game. Now, can you make 300% to 1,000% of notes? No, you can't. So I'm going to go back to I have the best passive income model. But I agree with you, from a hassle-free perspective, notes are great and so when you integrate both pieces into my program, then you've really got something very powerful.

Joe:    So, back to making offers though. When you, when you send out your marketing, are you just sending out regular old ugly yellow letters, hey, I want to buy your land or…

Mark:    No, no, so Joe, what you explain is the typical housing model. Because it's so competitive, you got to generate interest, right? Mine's not competitive, so I don't want to be in the appraisal business. I give them an actual dollar amount on that letter, that says I want to buy your property for this amount. It will close by this date and we're going to close to… on this to be… in this tile company and here's our out in case we don't like it. And then a percentage of those people just accept that $20,000 to $30,000 offer.

Joe:    So you're mailing an offer for the first time?

Mark:    I'm mailing an offer the first time. I don't want to be on the phone all day. Can you hear my phone's been ringing? Well it's on mute, but it hasn't, it doesn't ring.

Joe:    So, have you tested? Have you done the other way though? Have you sent out just mail to try to get as many people to call as possible and then…

Mark:    Yeah, and them I'm on the… I mean, you know, what's my effective hourly rate if I'm on the phone all day? I'll be talking to too many people, the market's too big, Joe.

Alex:    Well, that's what VAs are for, right?

Mark:    Yeah that's what VAs are for, but even still, they're going to have to go through so many before… It's just… our market is so big; why not just say this will… okay.

Alex:    So you have people to call you back that are ready to go, I understand that.

Mark:    I want the low hanging fruit and you know if we ever got to the point where you know, we had an issue with deal flow, then sure, we can do that, that's… I know, I mean, there are people to do it that way. I just, I personally don't like it that way.

Alex:    So okay, so how do you put this together on your spreadsheet? Do you have, okay here's my spreadsheet of names, here's my spreadsheet of addresses, and then there's a section where you're inputting your offers, so everything mail merges together. How are you then coming up with a number or you're just going 20 cents on the dollar as far as what it's assessed for or how are you judging the 20 cents on the dollar?

Mark:    Right, so we're going to get that treasured list of people that owe back taxes. We're going to scrub the list, we're going to get rid of all the homes in the commercial property, the industrial property, we'll sort it by use code, right? And then, let's say there are 1,000 names on that list, right? Well basically do some due diligence and some on one or two areas, right? We'll do a batch and then we'll look at it on a price-per-acre basis, we'll do a little bit of calculations and we'll put it on our Excel file, here's what we'll pay on that, for that property. We then upload that file in the Podio and then let the automation begin.

Joe:    I like, I like automation.

Alex:    Let it go, Joe!

Mark:    Let it go, Joe! And we… right, Alex, are you ready to unburn yourself?

Joe:    We'll talk about the automation then. You're using…

Mark:   Oh, my gosh, he won't do it. Joe McCall, what do I have to do?

Joe:    I just don't know, I can't… I don't know enough about land to say that it's the best passive income model. I know enough about wholesaling, I like my passive income model of wholesaling where I can do this in virtual market, cause I literally now, what?

Alex:    You know though, Joe? It's not really passive 100%, because there's people involved in this.

Joe:    Yeah, there are people involved in the mortgage business.

Alex:    Yeah, but once… but it's something that has to be kept and being done over and over and over and over and over and over again, we're hustlers, like we said.

Joe:    Right.

Alex:    We got to keep it going. It's not that's the difference between… yeah it's a business, but still.

Joe:    I'll give you this, would I rather…?

Mark:    It's a business, but it doesn't have any, any price value.

Joe:    I'll give you this, What, would I rather have a piece of land that's cash flowing $300 bucks a month or a rental property it's cash flowing $300 bucks a month, I think I would say land.

Alex:    Yeah, I could agree with that.

Joe:    So what does that mean, Mark?

Mark:   I have the best passive income model.

Alex:    Oh, I don't know if I'm ready to commit to that.

Joe:    I just get nervous with that question.

Mark:    Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, you know the truth is you have to find passive, right? I mean nothing is passive, first of all. So I think, I think the question is kind of misleading in a way, because there is work involved, I mean, even if I inherited $1 billion, that's not passive, I still had to figure out a way to put that money to work to generate the interest, right? I mean there's nothing is passive. So I do think that this model in the real estate niche, if you automate it and you systematize it, it is the simplest model and a great way to build passive income. I think it's the ultimate subscription model and you don't have to, you know, deal with the typical real estate headaches of renters and rehabs and renovations and rodents. That's I think it's, it's just a very simple model. Now, is it easy? Absolutely not. It takes effort like anything else, but once you've created your machine and you Podio it, it's a lot of fun.

Joe:    Let's talk about the systems in Podio. What, what do you have Podio do for you? Calculate…

Mark:   So we have five apps in Podio and basically so, we have our offers app, so we upload that list into our offers app, and boom, they go out via lob, right? Then we have a little checklist in there for the due diligence. So we do our due diligence piece in Podio, which then brings us into the closing. So you know, once we close that property, it kind of integrates into our marketing and we actually make that add in Podio and then we say, “Okay, where are we going to put it?” And it starts if we do it in automation to our website and from there RVA then takes the information and goes, and goes makes it ubiquitous, let's say fancy hands like automation and put on Craigslist and BackPage and wherever else we want to market it.

And then we basically automate the closing of it, we prepare the deed, we prepare all the paperwork, we have the, the collecting of the money automated as well, down payment plus, getting our monthly payments using a program called ZimpleMoney.com, Z-I-M-P-L-E, so it's… it's like simple with a Z. And that way we get a better we don't have as big a default rate because we're not using a credit card, right? There its account number and routing number and then it set up in ZimpleMoney, it's web-based, they can check their balance anytime and it's done. And then it's go to the next one.

Joe:    Zimplemoney, I've never heard of it.

Mark:    It's just five workflows.

Joe:    Okay. When do the due diligence part? Does that happen after they respond to your letter?

Mark:    Yes, so after they respond to the letter, they agree to the offer, then we go through due diligence. We want to make sure they actually own the property, right? We want to make sure there's no leans or encumbrances, we want to make sure the back taxes aren't onerous, they owe too much of back taxes, it's going to eat our margin, we won't close, right? Or we might have to retrade and say, “Hey look, you owe $2000 in back taxes,” my offer was for $6000, I'm going to have to adjust my offer to $4000, right? So we can do some like that, we want to make sure there's ingress and egress, legal access. We want to make sure there's something compelling about the properties, there's a good story here, they're in the mountain views. Are we near a town? Are we in the path of growth? And what's the story? And then if all those things check out, then we go ahead and close very quickly.

Joe:    But even though there's a pig for every barn, you still will turn down some deals.

Mark:    Yeah, so for example Ma and Pa Smith die and they haven't done their probate papers correctly and Ma and Pa's children are to trying to sell me property that they don't legally own, I can't close on that property. So you know, those issues can happen.

Joe:    What if there is no ingress or egress?

Mark:    Well there's a pig for every barn. So as long as I can feel comfortable that there's unfettered access and that I can feel comfortable saying to my buyer, “I wanted to know from the get-go, if you are to buy this property you cannot build on it,” because if you go to a bank and they look at the preliminary title report, there's not ingress and egress, they will not give you a loan. Now can you get to the property? Sure. Is anyone going to stop you from getting the property? No, right? But, if that's your highest and best use of this property, you can't buy this property.

Joe:    All right, so you just explain that to them?

Mark:    Yeah, so we highlight the flaws in the land and what is that do, it builds rapport, builds trust.

Joe:    If there was a problem with the property, you could make your contract more of an option contract. Couldn't you say, “Listen, I don't know if I can make this happen or not, but I'm just going to give you an option to buy this property”?

Mark:    Correct. Yeah, we do that a lot to.

Joe:    Okay.

Alex:   Hey, let me, let me say this. Now when you're saying egress, ingress-egress, are you talking about landlocked lot?

Mark:    Yeah, landlocked lots, correct. Like 85% of Nevada's landlocked.

Alex:    Yeah, so okay, so what I… one of my experiences, I pull the smallest in an area because I was looking for a lot to build on and I came across a guy that bought land that auctions for the taxes, which is probably another great way to come across land and then what they do is, they just sit on them in hopes that they'll get developed soon and you know, somebody's going to put water and sewer and then boom, the value of their land is going to appreciate tremendously. So I came across a lot of landlocked lots that I could buy for really, really, really cheap, but I just, I…

Mark:    Yeah, I mean, Alex, flip into me wholesale, I'll buy them.

Alex:    This thing was landlocked, there's nothing I can do with it.

Mark:    I'll buy it. I've done it enough times to know that there is a buyer for that property. You and I am not that buyer, but there's someone that doesn't care if it's landlocked, as long as they can actually get to the property, because they are never going to build on it and they can afford, right? Why is it so inexpensive? Well because it's landlocked.

Alex:    Yeah, because it's locked and there's no water and sewer and…

Mark:    No water and sewer, right. So you're going to go solar. Like I own a property in Arizona, right? Like the water table is so deep, it costs 10 times more in property than the land. So what do we do? We say you can, you can get water, you have to truck your water in, water by storage tank. We can't get utilities out there, right? Power by solar. There are people, they're living out there and they're happy as can be. I bought that property for… actually I have a note on that one. I bought that property for $500, I sold it for $7,500 and they're paying $200 a month and they're as happy as can be, they go out there with their, their trailer and live, they love it.

Alex:    I didn't know if this would be something that has to do with the city though. If the city says, “No you can't, you can't build a house there because it's landlocked,” or, “Would that be the choice of the homeowner at that point?”

Mark:    Yeah, planning and zoning would not issue a permit, for sure.

Alex:    Right.

Mark:   So yeah, I mean, you got to tell them, look, you can't build here.

Alex:    You can set up a tree stand and drink coffee in the morning, but that's it.

Mark:    Yeah, I mean, again, you know, there is a pig for every barn, that's our niche.

Alex:    That is a phrase of this call, there is a pig for every barn.

Mark:    There is a pig for every barn. And it's… I guess it's, it's you know, it's kind of hard to get your head around until you've done enough times, right?

Alex:    Sure, I can give you; I understand that because a lot of people understand like a wholesaling and they're like, “Ah, you can't do that; you can't sell something you don't own.”

Mark:    Right, right.

Alex:    It is the contract we are selling, contract that's what we're doing, but yeah I can be hard and…

Joe:    And you're protecting yourself too cause you're not actually closing on it until you know you can sell it, until you have a pig.

Mark:    Correct, correct.

Alex:    Until you have a pig, yeah.

Mark:    Until you have a pig, yeah.

Joe:    I love bacon.

Mark:    I mean, you know it's funny is… One of my biggest mistakes was I bought a subdivision in Pennsylvania and it was beautiful, a million-dollar house is in there. I was getting the lots for nothing because it was overdeveloped; it was one of those overdeveloped subdivisions. So there might've been 500 homes, but they're 2500 lots and they're a quarter acre to a half-acre. So I go in and I start negotiating and telling them, look, you got dead money here, County and you got dead money here, HOA. Give them to me and with my marketing, I'll get you a new HOA fee, right? And I'll get you someone who's going to start paying the property taxes.

So they agreed, I mean it's gated, it's got 2 PGA rated golf courses, it's got three legs, it's beautiful. Like there were tons of pigs for this barn, so I thought. Well guess what I close on that deal? 2007, right? and I made maybe 100 grand before 2008 runs around and the economy tanks and nobody wants to pay a $495 a year HOA fee if they're not going to build in that neighborhood, so I thought, oh my gosh, this is going to be phenomenal, people from New York are going to want to have a second home here. It didn't happen and that that was a mistake. So now I avoid those types of areas, even though to the outside and to somebody who's traditional, what a phenomenal buy!

Joe:    So how do you avoid another…?

Alex:    Unsellable pigs.

Joe:    Yeah, how you avoid those?

Mark:    So you know, we do, we just talked about your options, if you don't know, you don't close.

Joe:    All right. So you could have avoided that problem in 2007.

Mark:    Yeah if I had a mentor who said to me, Mark, you know what, just do a takedown deal with them, buy him, you know, 5 at a time, see how it goes before you commit to taking down you know, 1,500 lots, that would have been very helpful.

Joe:    So you already committed, you already bought these things?

Mark:    Well, I kind of did, I mean I didn't really spend much money because they were giving them to me, but I, you know, again, I always look my effective hourly rate. So I'm flying back and forth and I'm negotiating, and you know when I factored my time, I think I broke even on the deal.

Joe:    Okay, Mark we were talking about the demand for rental housing is always going to be higher than the demand for vacant land.

Mark:    Right. And I would actually quit the same way where you would say the demand for food is always going to be higher than the demand for an Apple watch, right? Nobody needs an Apple watch, right? But my goodness if you look at Apple's numbers, they're doing okay on products that nobody needs.

Alex:   Luxury items.

Mark:    Right, yeah, luxury item, but you can even make that argument for just about 99.9% of things we have in our lives. We don't need them, right?

Joe:    But we want them. What about, you know, the other factors involved with you know, depreciation with tax benefits? Aren't there more tax benefits with…?

Mark:    Not, not through a self-directed IRA, no. So if you do it through self-directed IRA with a Roth, it's tax-free building up at 300% to 1000%, if you're, if you can't do a Roth then it's tax deferred in your self-directed IRA at 300% to 1000%. I agree with you, you don't get, you can't depreciate land.

Joe:   Right.

Mark:    Right. But I think that's a small price to pay for not having to deal with renters, rehabs, renovations and rodents.

Joe:    You also can't use leverage with land, correct?

Mark:    Well, you can use other people's money, the seller can finance you, so you can certainly use leverage, why not?

Joe:    Did you ever do deals like that where the seller finances you and then you turn around and finance it out?

Mark:    Yeah, I did a million-dollar deal that way, yeah, that's how I took down one of my bigger deals, because I didn't have a million dollar’s cash.

Joe:    So what, you know, if the seller wants to sell their land, but they want too much or they have to have too much for it? Do you that also make an offer?

Mark:    Yeah, They're more likely to seller finance you then. Cause again, in a week… it's so noncompetitive, that there's no, there's no one else down the pike.

Joe:    So when I say no to your offer, do you then turn around and offer seller financing at a higher price?

Mark:    Well, I don't because you know, there's a, you know, there's a deal like the boss, like there's another one on the pike, like I'm the worst person to negotiate with, like you don't what it? Fine, I'll go to the next one, you know. See my offer; come back to me in 90 days. Just remember the clock is ticking, so you will eventually lose that property if you don't sell to me. So it's again, something is better than nothing and sometimes I just explain to them the story of Suncoast, right? I mean it's a hard pill to swallow, but go on with your life, take this money and do something that you want to do with it, stop paying taxes on this land and stop getting the notices and you know, it's going to free up a lot of mental energy for you.

Joe:    Yeah. Do you think that housing is more recession proof than land is?

Mark:    I think that, you know, in in the real estate cycle, right? We're all in the cycle, so I think when, when residential housing gets hit, let's say first, then it might be commercial and then it might be industrially, it kind of goes all the way down the line and land is maybe the last to get hit. But land is also the last to recover as well. So yeah, that is, that is kind of a good point in the sense that the market factors for land are a little bit different than residential housing but I would certainly make the argument that I made money in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 when my developer friends and my house living friends were, were underwater and getting killed, right? So all I had to do was kind of adjust my business model bit, but it wasn't that difficult. Joe: How did you adjust it? So like how would you avoid the developer friends that were underwater, how do you avoid that?

Mark:    Well, you know, they over leveraged, number one. So because I wasn't using leverage, I had a lot more staying power. I did have that nice not, note portfolio, so you know, the big adjustment for me was, okay, you know, honey, we can't keep spending like we're spending because we're all kind of like you know, drunk on money from let's say 2003 to 2006. So you know, Mark had personally kind of cut back, but the business itself was so generating a very comfortable six-figure income, but that was the adjustment.

Joe:    All rights.

Mark:    And then it's like, “Okay, if I don't have to pull out as much money out of the company, let's be as aggressive as hell here and buy up as much as we can in 2008, 2009, 2010,” which is what we did and we could buy all day long. It was just a little tougher to sell, but again, when you make it irresistible, which I think is the key with our marketing at a, at a car payment that everyone can afford, you're okay and then you come out of it and things are fun again.

Joe:    I think that's the key to you weren't over leveraged or if you weren't leveraged at all.

Mark:    Yeah, so or no leverage, yeah.

Joe:    So you just didn't have as much in-cash flow coming?

Mark:    Yeah, the nice thing about this model is my gosh, our overhead is so low, right? I mean, I was doing this in my house with just me and an assistant for the longest time.

Joe:    All right, all right. So let's talk about your goals to do a deal.

Mark:    A deal a day?

Joe:    How do you do that?

Mark:    Well, you just do the numbers, so you just have to send out at least 20 offers a day and then it just becomes a numbers again.

Joe:    So let's talk about the numbers, you send out 20 offers a day?

Mark:    20 offers a day, you know let's say 100 a week, right? 3 to 5% are going to get accepted, right? So that's 5 a week, right? So there you go, that's everyday. I don't work weekends.

Joe:    What, what percent of the deals of the offers to get accepted you actually do?

Mark:    The majority of them, because I'm not like Alex, I'm not like a, you know, a land snob.

Alex:    A-ha, nice.

Joe:    Well, if it's so easy then, why not two deals a day?

Alex:    Oh, good question.

Mark:    Good question, because.

Alex:    Double your offers, right?

Joe:    Sure, do 40 of them, Podio does it.

Mark:    Yeah, I know, that's, that's a great point and you know, in some areas we do that. I'm just saying in general, that's, that's typically what we do overall, but yeah, there are some areas where it will bloat out for sure.

Joe:    Well some areas will probably get more offers accepted than others.

Mark:    Yeah, exactly, exactly. And yeah, on in the automation piece, I mean you know, and again keep your overhead low, right? I mean I have to have it manageable too.

Joe:    Sure.

Mark:   I really don't want to be closing 20 deals a day.

Joe:    Yeah, you don't have the staff for that; you don't want the overhead for that.

Mark:    I mean, yeah, how much is enough, right?

Joe:    So how could somebody who wants to get to $10 grand a month in passive income, can you just kind of give us a game plan for that?

Mark:    Yeah, that's 100 to deals at 99 bucks a month, right? So that's it and so if you send out, you should be there within 12 to 18 months if you just send out 20 offers a day and you just do a simple car payment, that's it, that's just being very conservative, right? If you want to just replace the average American income of say, $5,000 a month at 149 a month car payment, that's 22 deals, just 22 deals. I got a student of mine, he's bought 118 properties as his first four months and he's going to do that, so he's just going to do 99 down, 99 a month and he's… you know, it's going to move the needle. You know, for him he just wants to make $300,000 a year of passive income.

Joe:    So figuring, if you're figuring in 20-30% to fall, you need to have enough, enough offers out there to get, you know what, 360 grand, I think in a year.

Mark:    Right, right, yeah exactly, so you got to be hustling too on those… you know, you'd have backup buyers basically for those properties or just you know, you got your team is in place, then you got 30 days to put a new person in there. So, but you're, you're ROI then becomes really, really high, because you're keeping all that money and then there's no cost for closure, just doing it again. So you can in any way, you… as you continue building this huge note portfolio, it also mitigates you need to have a huge amount of deal flow, like you would as a wholesaler, because you have it already. You know these are to come out and you just put somebody back in, and then you've mitigated market risk because let's say they paid for three years and the market's way higher, you sell it at a higher price with a higher no payment, and the opposite is true, the market goes down.

Joe:    All right, all right. You still got taxes to pay, but your ass growing those every month.

Mark:    Yeah, so they pay your taxes, right?

Joe:    All right. And then what was… so what if you don't pay your taxes and so what? Right?

Mark:    Well, that's another, that's another strategy as well, called overages, so you buy it before it gets to the tax deed sale, right? You don't pay your taxes, it goes to sale and somebody bids it up, you know, $3000 or $4000 more than your tax amount, then you apply for that overage and that you know, that's pretty fun too. But that's getting a little bit complicated.

Joe:    Okay, cool man, well Mark, this has been really good. I am looking at all the questions I wrote down here and you've answered all of them. Alex, do you have any other questions for Mark?

Alex:    No question, I'm just listening and appreciating his good info, it sounds like a great business.

Joe:    It does.

Mark:    You know, why does Alex have to say great? It would be so much…

Alex:    How about awesome?

Mark:    It would be so much easier, if you know, I think he needs to unburden himself and just say, “Mark, you do have the best passive income model.”

Alex:   Did you say it, Joe?

Joe:    I think I did it with the caveat.

Alex:    Ah, okay, all right.

Joe:    But I, you know, it is a little weird to be pressured into saying some thing's the best.

Alex:    It is.

Mark:   It is.

Joe:   By somebody who thinks it is.

Mark:    It's a bit wrong, I agree, but it is, it is my podcast stick, so… you know for the listeners out there I do apologize. I'm just hazing Alex.

Alex:    All good.

Mark:    For the fun of it, but you know, I think the responsible answer is it's the best passive income model for me, right? It may not be for you, land isn't for everybody, honestly and I think more people can wrap their heads around wholesaling and hold tailing and flipping and fixing a flipping houses, something physical than what I'm doing. And so, you know, as much as I like to say, you know, the reality… it's the best passive income model for me. So I apologize, Alex, I apologize, listeners.

Alex:    I think Mark, what we should do is just ballot over it in a game of chess.

Mark:    Pond to look for!

Joe:    Okay, but this has been a very good podcast and I think I keep on getting pushed over and over closer to the edge of dumping into this. I think for anybody listening to this too, if you decided that land, you want to go into land and play with that, you got to go all in, like don't just tip your toe in the water and you say like, “I'll just test this out and see if it works,” I think that's setting yourself up for failure. I think if you want to go on to land, you need to hire a coach like Mark and there's other guys out there that teach those stuff too, but go all in, you know, just go all in and that's… I think you would agree, Mark. Would you… the students that you see that are the most success are the ones that are just, I'm going to make this work, come hell or high water and I'm all in, my chips are all in.

Mark:    Yeah, yeah, I agree, I mean, not just for my model, for any model, honestly. You've got to, you've got to be willing to you embrace the sock with any learning curve and in kind of be comfortable with being uncomfortable at first. So I agree 100%, I think that applies really just a general success.

Joe:    Yeah, well, good. There's a pig for every barn.

Mark:    That'll be the title of the podcast.

Alex:    That is the title of the podcast there, nice.

Joe:    So, Mark again, the best place to go to get more info about you is TheLandGeek.com, is that right?

Mark:  Yeah, TheLandGeek.com, absolutely.

Joe:    Okay, all right.

Mark:    Or they can go on iTunes and look for our, our podcast together and the best passive income model podcast. I'm almost embarrassed now to say the name of the podcast. But yeah, TheLandGeek.com is the best place to go.

Joe:    All right. Very good, Mark, you've been a great guest and we appreciate it.

Mark:    Joe, Alex, thanks to you guys so much, I really appreciate it and…

Alex:    Thank you, Mark.

Mark:    And I look forward to, to talk with you guys in the future.

Joe:    All right, guys, just go to RealEstateInvestingMastery.com to get the show notes. We have a transcription of this episode in there as well, we should and all the links we talked about like ZimpleMoney and TheLandGeek.com and Mark's info will be in there and go to real estate investing mastery, check it out! Go to the land geek to check out Mark's site! And thanks, guys, we appreciate it. Thanks, Alex; thanks, Mark!

Alex:    Great call!

Mark:    Thanks guys.

Joe:    All right, take care, bye-bye.


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