Joe:  What's up, friends? Joe McCall here with my friend Jeremy. How are you doing, Jeremy?

Jeremy:  Oh, I'm doing great. I'm doing really well, guys.

Joe:  Boy, have we done a podcast before, Jeremy?

Jeremy:  No, first one.

Joe:  Okay. This guy Jeremy is a wholesaler here in Saint Louis, and we're going to be talking about a deal that we just did. We netted about $20,682 in profit on this vacant land deal. And Jeremy and I go way back. Jeremy is one of the best guys I know in the industry. And he just does deals with integrity, honesty. He cares about the sellers. He cares about the buyers. He cares about the investors that he works with. He's done a lot of deals. He's made a lot of money in this business. I had to bring him, dragging him to be on this podcast with me because he doesn't like the limelight. He's such a humble guy, but one of the smartest guys I know in this business. And so anyway, Jeremy and I go way back. We've done a lot of house deals, just regular house wholesaling deals. He's a hard money lender. He's a wholesaler. He likes to do the stuff that I don't like to do. He likes to go out and talk to sellers, meet with the sellers, belly button to belly button, negotiate deals, get him under contract and then flip them and sell them. And then we split the profits. I'm good at behind the scenes stuff. I like to do the marketing, generate the leads, set up the systems, give him the VAs, the virtual assistants to help do the marketing and all that stuff he doesn't like to do. Jeremy knows his strengths and he's good at talking to sellers, sitting with them, negotiating deals. And he loves chasing the deal, right? He loves doing deals. I prefer to be in the background a little bit, doing the marketing. I'm saying all this because a lot of you can relate. You don't want to be the one on the phone. Well guess what? I've talked about this for years. Find the Jeremy's that can help you with that. Find the Jeremy's. Who wants to be on the phone with the seller? He just. He does want to do the work of all the prescreening and stuff. He wants you. He wants somebody else to do the marketing and give him the good leads to work on. So anyway, we've done houses for a long, long time. And then just a few months ago, I forget how we connected and I started telling Jeremy about land. I like land a lot. It's a lot easier and we're doing some land deals. So Jeremy said, hey, let's do some land deals together in southwest Missouri because he has some interest in that area. So southwest Missouri, what is in southwest Missouri, you say? Well, a lot of vacant land. A lot of people in the Midwest go there. It's in the Ozarks. It's beautiful. And Jeremy has some interest in living down there eventually, or at least buying some property there. And so we like that. Let's do it. We went we did some research. We do exactly what I teach in this podcast. We found the best counties in southwest Missouri, where most of the activities happening, where most of the investors are buying and selling land. And we just went into those counties and we did a bunch of boring direct mail, okay. And we got people to voice mail. Jeremy called him back. So anyway, long introduction. Jeremy, welcome to my podcast. I'm glad you're here.

Jeremy:  Thank you. I would have done more podcasts with that introduction.

Joe:  Oh, nice. Nice. All right. So we're going to talk about this deal that we did. We netted just over 20 grand. I've got to say this to and I have to be really, really clear. We're not making any promises or income claims or guarantees. All right? Like Jeremy's been in the business a long time. I have too. I did a lot of marketing. I do a lot of marketing. I spend a lot of money and investment in time and money and marketing to get leads coming in. Okay. Jeremy has a lot of experience on negotiating with deals. You know, he's got experience. He can close the deals, he can turn around and sell them. So there is work involved in this business. And most people don't understand that. Most people fail and don't make any money in this business. I always want to be really careful and cautious to not give you the impression that this is easy and anybody can do it. Maybe it kind of is and anybody can do it, but not everybody does do it. So we're not making any promises or guarantees. If you're looking for get rich quick money, go somewhere else. Leave this podcast video right now so we're not making any promises. So I have to be real careful when I show a deal that we're. We just did where we netted. I can show you the seller statement, the closest buyer statement. We netted 20 or $20,000. There was some money. We spent a couple grand in marketing for the deal. Jeremy and I split that. So there is expenses in that, right? So are we clear there? Okay. I'm not making any income claims or guarantees, but I want to tell you what we have done. We're not making any of these numbers up. Jeremy and I are both believers, and we don't ever lie intentionally. I mean, maybe on accident once in a while, I don't know. But anyway, we're not here to make anything up. So, Jeremy, thanks for being on this show. All right. So just a couple three months ago, maybe four months ago, we sat down at Panera and we started talking about land. You had some interest in it. Talk a little bit about what it was like starting to work these leads from landowners and not your normal house owner.

Jeremy:  And to give you a little bit of perspective, because I had done a lot of other deals, I've been doing this for around 20 years. It's probably over a thousand transactions that I've been involved in. So I'm not, you know, right off the street. However, I will tell you, I've only. Maybe a small handful of dirt or land deals. In fact, most of those were where I bought a property and tore it out. Or removed the house or the property. Then we sold the land. So this is completely different. We are basically I am looking for primarily motivated situations or people now. Motivation. That doesn't mean they're going to lose a house. Doesn't mean, in fact, this deal that we're talking about. This was an old family farm the guy inherited, and he's owned it for 15 or 20 years. He's not doing anything with it. So that is motivation. So I do want to be clear, I don't believe any of the people I've talked to and since we've been doing this has told me they were losing their property or anything. I'm not talking about that type of motivation. But yes, basically I followed exactly what you said, Joe. So kudos to Joe for establishing the path or the road map. It makes your life so much easier. I don't try and recreate anything again. I just told you I've never really done this before. And out of our first mailer to two counties, I think we're under contract on a total of five properties. This is just one of them. So it is a volume thing to you are going to get people that may not like you mailing to them, etc.. I did learn that too. And the other side of the business I've done, you do have to have some thick skin, so everything Joe is telling you is dead on.

Joe:  Yeah. So five deals under contract. Oh my gosh. And we sent I'm just guessing numbers about 2500 or 3000 postcards. All right.

Jeremy:  2700 I think was a number of what we sent out.

Joe:  Yeah about 2700 postcards. All right. And we sent them all to a voicemail. And the voicemail was a simple 30, 45 second message that Jeremy recorded saying, hey, you know, I think the general gist of it, if I remember correctly, was, you know, hey, listen, when you have some land that you want to sell, you're usually faced with two choices, right? You can list it and sell it with a realtor, or you can sell it on your own. Well, we've got a third choice. If you don't want to deal with any of that hassle, we'll just buy it from you. So if you're interested in selling your vacant lot, leave your name and number and the reference ID on that postcard you got, and we'll call you back, we'll make you an offer. Okay. Very simple, laid back, low pressure. And they would leave a message. A VA would come in, listen to the voicemails and then give Jeremy all the information he needed. I believe this was happening right, Jeremy. The VA would fill out the information. Yeah. In freedom soft for what you needed on the property. So you got the GPS coordinates so you could copy and paste those into a map. We, you know, you got the acres, you knew the owner's name and you knew the APN of the property and kind of where it was located. And this is the approximate area where it was located. And then Jeremy just does the stuff, which is so good at he's gets on the phone and talks to them. And Jeremy talk a little bit about how you do these conversations with sellers. You keep it very simple, low key, friendly. You're not a high pressure sales pitch guy. Talk about what you say to sellers, how you talked or.

Jeremy:  Normally I just I always thank them for responding or giving us a call back. And then I just I always say this whether I'm buying land or houses, you know, tell me a little bit about your situation and how we can help you out, I love that.

Joe:  So not about a property. You're asking about their situation, how we can help.

Jeremy:  Yeah. Yeah, because I found this over the years to the value of a property fluctuates a enormous amount. So I don't know that I even care about the value of the property. I care more about the situation and how we can help them out. So if they have a pain point, while I have this land, I just kind of want to make it easy and get rid of it. Okay? Now I know how to approach them. It's always about them if you make it about yourself, which, trust me, I. I was young and in real estate and I always made it about myself. And it's not nearly as effective as if you listen, figure out a true way that you can help them out. So that is the approach. And then I let them talk.

Joe:  It's so simple guys. That's the number one rule right there I love that yeah I good you let them talk.

Jeremy:  Yeah. And typically they it depends some people or you know just say hey will you send me this car. Just I need an offer. You know what? Those are not the motivated people that I'm looking for. I can tell you that you might get one out of 100 or 1 out of 1000 that say that I'm looking for higher odds or a higher statistic. So I'm looking for a reason why they would want to sell. There is a fair statement that there's always a price that you would sell property. And here's the problem I'm not your buyer for every price. In fact, I'm not your buyer for many prices. So I'm just an easy button. You know, we don't do I do due diligence and things like that. But you know, I don't play games. I don't say things that I'm not going to do or try and lead them down a path of, I don't negotiate. I do all of my negotiating on the front end as well. So by the time we come to an agreement, by that time, I know what their issue is. And typically we're going to try and negotiate that out and they don't all work. And that's the other thing, Joe. I mean, we had tons of phone calls and we didn't buy. Sometimes it doesn't work. And that doesn't work for both sides.

Joe:  Yeah, I love what you said there. Like, I may not be your buyer. I probably won't be your buyer. And that's one thing I've been doing more being right up front with honest people. Like, I'm probably not your buyer. But can I ask you some questions about your property anyway? Can you tell me a little bit about it? Because it's so low pressure, low stress? I'm not trying to chase them. Right. I'm just saying, tell me about the property. Tell me about your situation. I love that. Okay. Sothe can you can you compare a little bit about why land in some cases is easier than houses when you're talking to sellers?

Jeremy:  It's totally easier. First off, when you're talking to a seller, the people that I've been talking to with land, a few of them live on the land occasionally, but often it is land. Well, one example is we bought a property really close to lake in southwest Missouri. Got a great deal on it. Those people live in Texas, and they just they've never been to the property in 20 years. So for them, there's not the emotional tie. What happens with actual property when you talk about real estate in a more traditional like a house, for example, people live in houses and the houses that I've bought over the years, people have emotional ties, probably 80 or 90% of the time. There are occasions they don't care, but even the people that move out of state and maybe their parents live there or their grandparents, they will say things like, I remember going to my grandma's house or grandpa's house, or I remember when I was two years old and I cut my face on the chimney or whatever. It's a very emotional thing. I haven't had one person. Well, I take that back. Occasionally you'll have a couple people that say, I remember going to the farm or the land, but we're dealing with types of land that often that's not the case. So it's a little more transactional versus emotional.

Joe:  Exactly. 100%. And, you know, they haven't put hundreds of thousands of dollars into the rehab of the property, right? They don't have the emotional damage of going through a bunch of bad tenants, or they don't have the emotional, don't say trauma. But the history of living in the house, growing up in it, their mom, it's just passed away. Whatever. This is vacant land. It's dirt. They just don't care about it. So anyway, it's just a different conversation. It's a lot easier and they just don't care. And I asked, people ask me, well, how do you why do sellers sell their properties at such huge discounts? You know, because we're buying these things at 40, $0.50 on the dollar. And it's like they just don't care. It's the same reason why somebody would want to sell a $2,500 treadmill for 250 bucks at a garage sale, or 25 bucks. They just want to get rid of it. They've never used it. They don't care about it anymore. It just reminds them every time they walk past it about fat they are, and their wife is mad at them for ever buying it in the first place. And all it does is collect laundry and like, you know, speaking from experience here. So like you just didn't use it, you want to get rid of it. So that's kind of the same thing with land. They just don't care about it anymore. They want out. Yeah. So true. Can we talk about this one deal here a little bit? I've got a slide here I think boom okay I got a little picture of it. It's really hard to see. This is from one of my slides, one of my presentations. I have the seller statement here in the buyer statement our net profit walked away and you and I split. This was 20,682 bucks. And you add some costs to that you got reimbursed for because you. I'm not sure. Jeremy, you don't have to say we used either your money or hard money or private money lenders temporarily. So we did close on the deal and we turned around and then listed it. We listed it with an agent. Right.

Jeremy:  You know, this one was now or not this time. Actually, we're. Yeah, we're I am I don't know if you want to talk about that. Sure. A broker less is who we've used on.

Joe:  Yes. That's right.

Jeremy:  And because it is much easier, there are not a ton of agents involved. The ironic part is this for the person that ended up buying us was a neighbor. And the reason that they bought it. We had the drone photos and everything ready for the listing, and I just happened to knock on their door. And because I do travel to southwest Missouri, Sam and I, when I went to this property, I said, by any chance, do you know anybody that would want to buy it? And of course they said, well, yeah, us. So we actually sold that to a neighbor. And that is something I'd highly recommend. That is not the first time. In fact, I have sold dozens of properties to neighbors because they wanted, for some reason, maybe, you know, a house they might want for their kid or a lot they might want to expand their lot. So I would highly recommend that getting in contact with all the neighbors that are basically touching that property.

Joe:  Yeah. And if you're one of my neighbors listening to me right now, if you ever want to sell your house, call me before you list it. I'd want to buy your house. Right? I want to pick my own neighbors. But yeah. So, okay. This is a 3.6 acre lot in Nixa, Missouri, which is near Springfield, Missouri. Right. It's kind, gentle, rolling hills. This is a property that had road access, right?

Jeremy:  It did. Yeah, yeah.

Joe:  And, we run through the numbers a little bit because we bought it for just approximate numbers. We bought it for what? And what did you think it was worth?

Jeremy:  Sure. I bought it for 25,000. Honestly, I knew it was worth somewhere. I thought on that. My answer? Oh, no. To active, you know, agent search. We could get in the 40s. We ended up selling it for 47 five. Nice to an age where there was no commissions, no agents involved. I did think, by the way, I was kind of competing on this another land person from some other location that doing the similar things to what you do. Joe had mailed them an offer. I bought it at 25, and they had an offer with a check and a fake check in hand for 36.

Joe:  Well, let's talk about this here. Let's talk about this here. This is so I'm glad you brought this in. I forgot about this. A lot of land investors out there are sending blind offers. They're just called blind offers are pulling these numbers out of their, you know, nether regions. And there's no substantiation or anything real realistic to these numbers. And they're sending faked. You know, I've sent this before. I've done it before. Okay. But a lot of investors are sending just blind offers. And you're losing so much opportunity here. And so, Jeremy, talk about what you said to the seller when they brought this up.

Jeremy:  Yeah. He sent me a picture of the letter and the check and what they were willing to offer. And he said, so I know we had talked before, but what would you like to offer now? And I said, well, have you talked to that person? And he said, no. And I said, do you think that person has gone to your land, which I actually had? I happen to be in the area. So I drove by before I put it under contract. And he said, I don't think that better the land. And I said, well, let me ask you this. What are the odds that will actually close? Because I would imagine that your number one goal at this point is yes, to sell, but also to make sure you actually close. And he said, yeah, probably. And I said, I know we talked about 25. I mean, I can email you the offer right now. And he, he said, well, hang on one second. And he put the phone like on his shoulder who I acted like I couldn't hear it. But he said to his wife, he goes, yeah, he'll do 25 what do you say? And she goes, yeah, let's just get rid of it. And he got back on the phone and said, yeah, we'll do it. So that was my I had been negotiating to get the offer from 36 down to 25.

Joe:  Okay, I love it. So many valuable lessons here. Right. Like I understand the concept, the idea of sending blind offers in advance. And some of you may be thinking, well, I can't go to the property. I'm in Texas and this property I'm doing marketing in Florida, but you can still talk in terms of I'm going to have my realtor go look at the property. I'm going to have my photographer go look at the property. If you can't be the one to go look at it, right. Or sometimes you could just say, listen, that does sound like a good offer. You should probably take it. Why didn't you already call him back? Why haven't you taken it yet? And by the way, have you talked to them yet? You know, if you're not on the phone, you're not making money. I'll just say that because a lot of people are trying to take shortcuts, right? And just send offers, and there's a place for that. But like, what? Have you just picked up the phone and called somebody, right? And then if you got a voicemail, call him again and then text him and call him the next day and follow up and follow up and follow up. And then when you send him an offer, follow up again a month later, follow up again a month later. Nobody else is doing this, guys. You can do deals, even in competitive markets, by being really good at these simple things that nobody's doing talking on the phone, calling people, texting them, following up and doing what Jeremy does what it because it's in Missouri. Go look at the property. Right. So this offer was accepted was ten grand less than the other offer that he got in the mail. Right?

Jeremy:  Yes. Yep. And as far as one other piece, I guess I was just thinking about when you were talking. When somebody says yes, then I reconfirm that with them. I say, great, so I'm going to email you an offer for $25,000, and you're prepared to sign that. When he said yes, I literally emailed it to him. And I did have that back within about 15 or 20 minutes. And he said, well, I'm going to have my attorney look at it. When I was talking to him on the phone, I said, absolutely. I would have everybody family members, attorneys, friends, anyone you feel comfortable presenting the offer to have all of them read it. Yeah, well, I got that back in 30 minutes, so I don't think he spoke to his attorney, but it's probably one of what you said. Sergio, I, I'm not going to push back and say, no, don't talk to an attorney. I'm going to say, absolutely. You need to speak with your attorney.

Joe:  Yeah. And you're so good at this, Jeremy. And like, sometimes when a seller brings you an objection, you all the best thing to do is agree with them, right? Like, yeah, you're right. I would do the same thing. I would be concerned about that too. Now let me ask you a question. Why did you ask that? You know, or you know, another thing you could say is like I would say, yeah, definitely have your attorney review it, but can I just ask you something? What specific questions do you are you do you want your attorney to review or maybe you don't feel comfortable with or whatever? You could ask it that way as well, but agree with them. Say, yeah, that's great. That's really smart of you. You want to protect your family always. Yeah. You should always have attorneys. In fact, you should have your family members and anybody in. Involved. Look at this as well. There's a saying of go for know and you want the sellers to say no, right? You don't want them to say, I need to think about it. Give them permission to say no and you'll be shocked. It does like reverse psychology. It gets them to say, yeah, they'll go ahead and sign it and send it back 30 minutes later. Okay. So let's talk about this property right now. It's kind of wedged between some farms. It looks like it's half grass, half land. Is that right there. Half trees.

Jeremy:  And there was a nice building site. So I knew that was going to drive the property value that somebody could build and have a property on 3.6 acres.

Joe:  And this is in an area where there's a lot of demand. A lot of people are buying land here, building new homes. It's kind of in the suburb, outside of the suburbs, maybe more in the path of growth. But we knew already coming into this that it's an area with a lot of demand, right?

Jeremy:  Yeah. In fact, this area, it's interesting because when you pull up smaller plots like this there, there's almost nothing in that area. So they, they only have really large plots. So they're trying to sell the builders. So I also I knew it's a that's just a supply demand issue. There's not enough supply. So knowing that I like to take calculated risk. And that was a very calculated risk.

Joe:  And we found this seller by pulling a list for I think we used priced. Yeah we used priced Pre-seed pulled a list of all the vacant land owners who owned land in these two counties. And I think the only filter was they had to have owned it for over ten years, and they have to live outside the county. And so we sent them a letter or postcard. And now we're going we're sending in the second batch of mail, which is a letter. It's a real simple letter with picture of Jeremy's beautiful family on the letter. And just say, if we're interested, my family and I are looking to buy some land. If you're interested in selling, call me. Awesome. Now it has road access right there. It's usable. So it's not, you know, on a on a huge side of a huge mountain or whatever. It's not in a wetland or floodplain. People ask all the time, what about perc test? Did you get a Perc test done where we test the soil for skeptics? Did you get a survey done? Did you do anything to the land? Did we bring any utilities to the land or anything like that?

Jeremy:  Good questions. Those are I figured out because, I mean, this is the first deal I've done in land, actually. And when I first started, I had no screw ups or anything. I just started calling people and figuring it out. So I actually think I'll do better on this next batch of mail because I've perfected a few things. But due diligence is really important. I call the county that it is, and I talk to the planning and zoning department and ask them those questions that you mentioned. I also call I've become friends with a few people at a short time where in the other county that we work, and I know a lady that I have her direct number and I just call her directly, and actually she will even drive out to the property and tell me where the utilities are and tell me what she thinks, like, there's one that we're under contract in and her county. And she went out and said, yeah, this is going to be great. You've got water here. And she told me the exact spot where it's at. So now when we buy it, I can tell the new person that that's coming from the county. The other thing is she said, oh, and you will need a grinder. Well, I didn't know what a grinder pump cost. So I said, oh really? What would that cost in your area if she gave me that information and gave me the name of the person, they do it. So what I found is I'm very and also the title company to Joe this deal. The neighbor called the title company. The only reason I think they ended up buying from me is because I talked to the manager of the entire title company before I started doing anything, and I said, here's what we're doing. I want to close deals with you. I sent information, so she had all my contact information. She put me with a closer that she thought would be the best for our situation. Now I have a relationship with them. What I told this buyer when we ended up selling it, that we were closing at that title company, and they called the manager of that title company, who had already spoken to me and vouched for us and said we are legit, and that we did buy the property. And what I'm saying is accurate. That's where give other people reasons to make you an authority that's not coming from your mouth, because they would say, who cares, right?

Joe:  That is so good. I didn't even know any of that happen. I knew you is you're really good at doing that without getting on the phone and calling the realtors, calling the county, calling the title companies. But that's so important because this these buyers are going to be suspicious. They're going to look in county records. They can see that you don't own it yet, right? You might have just closed on it a week ago, or you might be in the process of closing on it. So it's important to have the relationships with realtors, title companies, the boots on the ground that can represent you a little bit. And this is why it's so important also for you guys to think about. You need to find somebody that has access to the funds to close on these deals, whether it's a hard money lender, a private lender, wholesaling partner like Jeremy because it's gotten harder in South Carolina, just passed a. Law that it's illegal to wholesale without a license. Right. You still have your license, Jeremy, and you let it expire.

Jeremy:  I do, I do have my license. Yeah.

Joe:  So you don't necessarily use it, but it helps to get your foot in the door sometimes with other agents. Right?

Jeremy:  Yes. Yeah, absolutely. 100%. And, you know, I didn't fully answer your question to you about the Perc test. I did not do that. There's no utilities to transfer Idaho. You know, as far as a survey, I had a plot map. So I do recommend actually the counties that we work in have recorded plot maps on everyone that I've had so far. So I don't pay for a survey, but I definitely try and find a plot map or an old survey. Actually, this property had a survey from 21 years ago, but guess what? It's still a survey. So even though it may not be valid to build on, it still gave me a really good idea of where the property lines were and everything else.

Joe:  Well, the other great point to this too, is the, you're finding this information out doesn't mean you have to do it, but at least you now can tell the buyers call this company. To do that, you need to have this kind of a pump. You know, call this company to do it. Here's the phone number to utilities. Call them if you need a Perc test. You know here's a company that you can use. For that. You become a resource and you're fully disclosing everything you know about the property when you're advertising it. And that will help you find better buyers. And then we, you know, we got drone photography. We got good photos of the property. We didn't just rely on a Google Earth, Google Maps, you know, our street views. We got good pictures on it. Cool. So anything else you want to talk about in terms of like the process of advertising this property?

Jeremy:  Well, yeah, I did want to mention you. You mentioned this, Joe. And I agree 100%. If you owned the property and you would own it for a long period of time, you'd know a lot about it. And if a buyer came to you and said, Joe, tell me about your property or can I do this? I think it's important that, you know, the 5 or 10 questions a buyer will be asking about your property, whether you live there or not. So, for example, you mentioned the Perc test. Well, yeah, maybe you haven't done one, but who is that rough rent or who would you refer them to? You know the title companies. I tell people where we're closing, I don't know, say you can pick any title company. I have them all close in our title property. Then we control that a little bit more. Also the, you know, calling the county and finding out the restrictions, people are going to ask, well, you know, this is a not on city water and utilities. So you know, what does that cost or who would I call to get a septic tank. Those types of things are important to know. So now I've got that information. So when somebody reaches out to me I can provide that. Because I do think you have to remove the hesitation from a buyer in the future.

Joe:  Yeah. So good, such good stuff. So I was talking about closing on the deal. Like it's important to close on these deals, especially when you're going to make a $20,000 profit to a neighbor. Right? Like you can't do an assignment with something like that. Now, I've done assignments to investors for $45,000 profits, but it's just getting harder and harder to do those kinds of assignments or double closings because buyers are suspicious and they've heard of scams going on about. And we heard this in the news of people selling land they don't own yet, and then just pocketing the money and running, and then the properties never get sold. But when you can close on these deals, you'll make more money and do more deals. Now where do you get the money from again? Well, you find private lenders, you find private investors, you find hard money lenders, whatever. Right? So this property, we put it on broker less.com. Now we have four other contracts we're working on right now Jeremy are we are you going to do broker list.com as well with that. And explain what broker list is.

Jeremy:  Yeah a broker list is a basically you can last a property anywhere in the United States or I guess anywhere in the United States. There didn't seem to be restrictions on that. And for a very small fee, you can enter all the information. Now you do have to put in the data, so you'll have to know the information. Put that you can attach photos, disclosures, plot maps, surveys, anything that would help you. And I will go to the end of the MLS feed, which also ties. So the MLS will do a lot with agents and buyers that are looking. But also you've got Zillow, Realtor.com, all these other websites that that will feed to.

Joe:  Now you still have to like a realtor will put it on the MLS for you. So don't you have to like, doesn't a realtor local in that market contacted you for some paperwork to sign?

Jeremy:  Yes, and it's super easy though. It's all automated. I mean, really, like they just send you the app, you put in all the information they filled out into the listing agreement, send it to you, you sign at it, and then you put in the information. They make sure all the data is proper for the MLS that they're inputting. If you missed something, they just send you a quick email. It's very easy. And honestly it it's been a really good enjoyed you did recommend that. So I appreciate you doing that.

Joe:  Oh good. Thanks. You should do it with your house deals too. Just flat fee. Now broker list is a website that sends you to different flat fee brokers. Or they're called discount brokers. These are guys. That and gals who have. Instead of charging 6% commissions where 3% goes to the listing agent, 3% of the buyer's agent. They just do like bare minimum nothing and just listed up there for you. And you pay them a couple hundred bucks and then you agree to. If a realtor brings you a buyer, you pay the buyer's agent some kind of commission, right? So what do you typically for land now, which is a lot cheaper? What kind of buyer's agent commissions do you typically put on there?

Jeremy:  You know I it's interesting I actually like rewarding buyer's agents. And so people that say, oh, I'm going to cut their commission by a percent or even half a point. I mean, how much is that going to knock down your deal and your profit? I mean it, you know, you're literally taking the money out of their pocket when you do things like that. So in that market, 3% is kind of the average. So we are doing 3%. But I think two, if you've got an area where if you put a 4% and which again, 1% of, you know, 25,000 bucks, I it doesn't do anything really for our profit being reduced substantially. But that makes a big difference on an agent's commission because they're not paid quite as much as real. So it doesn't make as big of a difference, but made a big difference to their net profit.

Joe:  Yeah, I'd recommend 5% commissions on laid out. I mean, we're selling you things for 45 grand. 1% or 5% will be 2500 bucks, something like that about you know, so when you when you're going to make 20 grand, they're going to make two grand. It's not a big deal. So I'm always overgenerous I agree with you, I'm very generous on realtor commissions for the buyer's agents because you think about this. It it's not supposed to change them presenting your deal to their clients. Right? But it will make them present your deal to them with a little more urgency. Like, oh my gosh, look at this deal here. You know, they're going to they're going to this looks like a really good deal. And when there is something that comes across later on with some kind of a speed bump, they're going to be like, they'll be more cooperative with you to help during those speed bumps. Come that might come later of overcoming them and explaining to the buyer, well, we'll figure that out. Well, I'll help you resolve this issue. You know what I'm saying? So it pays for itself in the long run.

Jeremy:  And actually what you said, Joe, is the main reason I would do it is it keeps the deal together. I mean, if a buyer wants to buy the deal, the agent will is kind of captive to whatever commission or they'll negotiate with the buyer to get paid more. However, if you are looking at, you know, from the standpoint of just getting a better deal, once you get it together, now they start thinking things like, well, I'm going to have to go out and show property again. And they're only paying 2 or 3% and they're paying 4 or 5%. No matter what anybody says, agents can be this one a certain way and that is helping keep the deal together.

Joe:  Right. And thank you. Larry pointed out 1% of 45 K is only for 50. That's what I was trying to say. But like, yeah, it's not that much of a deal breaker. And with the 4 or 5 3% we're talking about is to the buyer's agent because, well, since we're doing broker less, it's a discount broker. We're not paying the seller's agent because, you know, Jeremy not you know, he's done tons of deals. He doesn't need an agent to represent him. He's doing the work himself of getting the pictures and putting all the information out there. And he understands how to negotiate and things like that. So use something like broker list, get it out there on the MLS because that'll get it on the most on the biggest websites where 90% of all buyers go, they go to Zillow, they go to Realtor.com, they go to Redfin, and they're not going to the free sites that we like to put our properties on, like Facebook Marketplace or whatever Craigslist they're going to. You want to put your property where the eyeballs are, okay? And you want to put as much information about the property as you can. And they're like, you were talking about. And, Jeremy, we take good pictures of the properties to talk about that real quick, how important that is.

Jeremy:  Yeah. If you talk to any agent that is good, they will tell you buyers screen out based. So when a buyer says I want to buy land, for example, if they have 100 options in an area, they're actually looking for reasons to screen it out. So if the photos are bad, that might be a reason to screen it out with really good photos. Your odds of that making it to their list that they're going to evaluate later is much higher. And that is I mean, buyers notoriously well look online before they get heavily involved with an agent. And even when they're with an agent, they still will look online. So the better the photos, it's just going to make everything better for the resell.

Joe:  Yeah, 100%. Somebody was just texting me and I thought I was late for a call, but I'm not okay. Now we've got four more deals. Talk about these real quick. Jeremy, if you don't mind. Kind of approximate numbers on them.

Jeremy:  Yeah, we bought one and closed and actually just listed at this week to resell it. We bought that one for 30,000 and have it listed at 59 nine. And that is the cheapest track of land and price per acre. And that. Vicinity. So that's something else I like to do. I want to be a little under the market because of market before price really low, the market will dictate the end price. And if we're priced just below market, the odds of, you know, maybe getting multiple offers or just getting the best buyer, which is what I'm really looking for, the highest quality buyer, not the highest not number. Because like I told that seller, I'm a seller now too. I want the deal to close more than I want, you know, an extra couple grand if it's delayed or something happened. So yeah, so we have that one. Then we had one that we were going to close on a little bit earlier, but there was a little title rescue. I would that is going to come up some because what we're dealing with often is inherited properties. So there might be some hiccups. We're still going to get that deal. I think it'll close maybe the next two weeks or so. That one actually is two lots for one. So we're buying both lots and a finished subdivision. And there's no lots out there. I there was one lot I do. So in that example I call the agent and talk to him about the loss. We have a better lot and they're listed at 55,000. And we were going to list ours. It probably 34 nine. So we're going to be substantially better deal. And that's times two. So each lot will be 3049. And then we've got another, deal that actually I am I'm directly purchasing Joe. And I know we talked about this, but I did find a piece of property that my wife and I really love. So we're going to buy that deal. But I did come 100% from your marketing, and it was a postcard. And the entire track of land is about a $5 million property. I mean, a beautiful historic property. And this guy said, I don't know why, but people send me stuff all the time. He said, I saw your postcard. And I thought, And I set it down. And he said, that followed me around my entire house. He said I'd look and there was a postcard. So anyway, he called me and we are buying a section, just land, not the house. He has this big house overlooking a river and it's really beautiful. But we are buying a section of that from your marketing. And again, it was a postcard. I mean, just a basic postcard that the guy called us on.

Joe:  It's an obnoxious postcard, is what it is.

Jeremy:  I'm surprised they didn't cuss me out.

Joe:  I know. And just so you know, in case you're curious, Jeremy and I got a little agreement on the side. You'll pay me a little bit for that. It's. But it's not a big deal. Yeah, I agree, yeah. So I, I'm excited about this because Jeremy is, you know, he's finding these great properties that he wouldn't have been able to find on the these are properties that are off market. They're not on the market to sell. Right. So yeah we're looking at five deals. Total profit of all of them approximately 50 to 60 grand on these deals. About right?

Jeremy:  Probably 60 to 70. Yeah.

Joe:  Awesome. And we're buying I like a really important point here. And we'll wrap this up. An important point that you were talking about here. And I hope you guys caught it. We're always thinking, and what are we going to sell this property for? And we want to price it aggressively. So when we're making our offers, we're thinking in terms of putting ourselves in the buyer's mind. All right. So the buyers looking at this property, why would they want to buy this one and not the other one that's down the street or the other one that's a mile away. And if theirs is priced at 50, well, we want to price ours, not at 49. All right. We want to price ours at 35. You gotta be aggressive with your pricing and look at the actives just as much as you look at the solds, because those actors will tell you what your competition is doing. So then when you figure out, okay, we're going to sell it for this, and this is an aggressive price, we're going to sell it in 1 or 2 months. That's our goal at this price. And then you work backwards from there and you say, all right so we want to make at least ten grand profit on this deal. We're going to pay closing costs. We're going to pay realtor commissions. I'm going to pay $500 for photographer. So then you come up with your offer and then you come down a little bit from there is I kind of did I explain that right, Jeremy.

Jeremy:  Yeah. And I think it's important. So don't force a round peg in a square hole. A lot of times people say, well, I can get 50 for that based on, you know, what their analysis was. Well, then make sure you can get 40 for it. The deal still works, right? So if you can get 50 like don't go always. Best case scenario because it may not always work by a moderate. You know adjustment is probably going to work most of the time.

Joe:  Excellent. Yeah. So good. I'm looking forward to doing more deals with you. Jeremy. We just sent out another batch a few days ago. I was just write myself a reminder to send the next batch out, and we're testing a new mail piece. We'll see how it goes. You might like the other obnoxious one better. We'll see.

Jeremy:  Well, and I, Joe, I do want to share something. First off, you, I and I know we're friends, but you, you really are amazing at what you do. And on top of that. So I have bought a couple. I rented a property in the same. Market as well. And I bought three houses. And the last month that we're working on, and the amount of work that I have to do is enormous. On these land deals, the amount of work I have to do is not enormous. So again, kudos to you because that is you do an amazing job and I think it's just an easier transaction as they are.

Joe:  Totally. And this is why I do land and this is why I wanted to do something with my boys, my teenagers. We've talked about this. You know, I look at a house transaction when you're trying to negotiate with a seller who's lived there for 30 years and you're you've got a teenager, boy, he's 14 years old, talking to them, trying to understand RV and after and comps and trying to negotiate with them and say, you're not going to send that 14 year old kid to go look at the house, right? So I thought, what can I do with my boys that could they could do this virtual online. We did a bunch of deals, me and my boys, and we didn't do the thing. What you're doing, talking to them. We would only talk to the sellers after they got our offer. We would look at the deal, send them an offer and then talk to them. But just think how much easier it is now when you do what Jeremy's talking about, and you just pick up the phone and call him and talk to him and be real. You're not some high pressure salesman. You're just asking questions about the property. You're acting like I like to call it the disinterested buyer. Right? You want to get the seller to convince you why you should want to buy their property? No you don't. You're not in the position of trying to convince them. Why? To sell it to you. That gets into, like, sales mode and pitch mode. We're not selling or pitching anything. We're just making offers. And we're trying to help people and we're trying to help people. And that's a beautiful thing about this business. I love it, Jeremy, you're a good friend. I so appreciate you. Thank you for being on the show, and I appreciate you letting me talk to you guys because just again, like I said, I had to drag him here to do this. And he said, we're not going to talk about me. Right, Joe? A little bit, but, you're good friend, Jeremy. We should have we should hang out again soon and have coffee. Maybe at Panera sometime soon. I'll text you like we should do that next week. Yeah.

Jeremy:  Sounds right.

Joe:  Real quick. Any final words before we go?

Jeremy:  You know what? I've been around a lot of other investors, and if you lead with your heart, I think you'll do better. That would be my parting shot there.

Joe:  That’s excellent, good advice. All right, Jeremy, God bless you, man.

Jeremy:  All right. Thanks, Joe.

Joe:  See you guys. Bye bye everybody.