Joe: Ladies and gentlemen, we are not in the real estate investing business. You've heard me say this million times. What are we in? We're in the marketing business. And I'm here with Nicholas Nick at a mastermind in Tampa, Florida, and we're probably the last ones here. Yeah. We are. My flight is way late tonight, but I wanted to get this guy on a video to talk about marketing. Because marketing is the most important part of a busy market. Everything is marketing, and marketing is everything. And if you understand the importance and the power of marketing, and you could set up your marketing where it gets done for you in spite of you, well, you're going to have an easy time doing this business, right? Because if you're like me and you try to set it all up yourself, or you try to schedule it or time block it and you say, all right, I'll just do it in landing. Like, man, we get busy, life gets in the way. You know, you might be busy doing deals. And this happens a lot where I see students, this happen to me. You get a property under contract, and now you're working hard to sell that deal, and you stop your marketing. You sell the deal. Maybe sometimes deals get pushed back and then we cancel. And 3 or 4 months later, you finally make some money and you turn around your pipelines and, well, it's not like a light switch was turned on and leads start flooding in again. It doesn't work that way. So here's my biggest advice. If you get anything out of this, what we're going to talk about this is second year ginger marketing done for you in spite of you that way it just happens. You don't think about it. And you know what. You want to take the day off. That's fine. But now you've got the leads coming in. So that's what Nicholas does. He's got a company called Lead Mining Pros. We did a video. You were on my podcast maybe a couple of years ago.

Nicholas:  A year and a half, probably.

Joe: Yeah. And, you know, you did some marketing for me. I got four deals under contract and cold calling in text. Yes, sir. And I know we did some deals. I don't remember how much we revenue we made to nada, but I was like, oh my God, this is cool because I've always believed and I'm a big fan of the direct mail and cold call. Right. And it's got the harder and harder with cold calling these days and texting to figure out how to make it work. But Nicholas Nick knows how to make, and the last thing on there I'm going to do is do the cold calling myself. Right. So some people, it depends on your budget. They may not have as much money for direct mail. They don't want to do the cold calling themselves. By the way, if you want to work with Nicholas, let me just say link is in the description that will send you to Nick. All right. So what do you guys do at Lead Mining Pros?

Nicholas:  So what we do is we are like a done for you lead generation company. Yeah. And the number one thing is that it's important to note that there's no con. A lot of people go there's that a month. Now everything is one off. But that's which I think is a really big, really big blessing. But what we do in some as we can pull a list and we get all of our data from Data Tree, or you can supply your own.

Joe: Houses or land.

Nicholas:  Houses or land. That's correct. And the data tree is what we use for land. And then we use CoreLogic for houses. So we make sure we're using the right provider for the right person. Then we skip tracing. And our skip tracing has a proven accuracy of over 85%, which she. Yeah. And then we can also prove that to you individually on your campaign. We track that per campaign. It's not like old number that we stopped tracking. then we have American cold callers and we call everyone up to three times if they don't answer the phone, and then we text message everybody once, that's our. And we call, I call it an all inclusive package. Our most popular one is called the King Kong. It's about 1480 bucks and then land it averages about 20 to 60 leads on that roughly $1,500.

Joe: Which is crazy because if you look at the cost per lead normally that you get with direct mail, it depends on the campaign that you're sending in the county and the type of mail you're sending. But in my experience, what I have found cold calling and texting when you especially when you do the follow up, they like that you do. So it's not just one and done like we call in three times and you text them.

Nicholas:  And we text them.

Joe: So your cost per lead is going to be way less doing cold calling than it will be with direct mail. Absolutely. So a lot of people that are doing direct mail already, they still will hire you, right, to do the cold calling for the list that they've already mail. Why is that?

Nicholas:  Well, they are me for a couple reasons. One is speed to lead. So we all know direct mail can take 3 to 4 weeks to go out. Yeah, I can start within 48 hours. So one thing we've also learned as they buy the direct mail they go but I want it now. So I'll do the first three week law and then they'll do that. And then on the flip side they say I already mailed this list. Will you call and text it? And I say, absolutely. A lot of people think that because of that one marketing strategy that they don't need to do the other. And one big common misconception I've been learning recently is that market wasn't good. Well, sir, why and why did you say the market wasn't good? Well, I direct mail that I didn't get any leads. I think it is a very big mistake to judge the amount of sellers in a market doing direct mail campaign. It can be a number of things. I will say that we've never failed to get leads with calling and texting, and that's why when people tell me they go, that wasn't a good market. Judging it off your direct mail isn't the best move. I'd call them and text them. Then let's have a judgment about how many leads are in that market. Yeah. And so I think that's a perk of using us after the fact, especially if it didn't go well. I be encouraged to use me because it's going to go, yeah.

Joe: Oh, this is such. It's one of the best investments you can make in your business. It's a game, like I said at the beginning, Mark. We're not in the real estate business when the market moving in. I want to talk about the differences between calling for land or calling for house. Okay. When we do cold calling with Nick, we get on average, 3 to 4 times more leads than houses with land than we do with house. Now, I know the answer to that. But why? Why?

Nicholas:  You know, houses is definitely getting tough, you know? And it's getting tougher. Trust me, I own a lead generation material. If you're going to listen to anybody, it's me. Because I don't want that to be happening. But with land, there's a couple things. One to less saturation. Everyone's old school with land, too. Everyone's talking direct mail. I'll tell you, I think as a society, we're opening up our mailboxes and we're throwing away all the colorful stuff, and we're keeping all the envelopes. As a society, we're all getting there, you know? And so that's why I said, don't judge by the direct mail, but everyone's doing this OG method. No one's calling them and talking to them on the phone. On top of that, we have Americans, you know, so it's not like this one person is calling them this person who speaks just like that land owner does is calling that. And the reason why that's important. So one thing I always say is Americans for land, no questions asked. I really, even if you say one form, we often vote for an American. Whenever you say you want foreign, I really urge against it. Other people have already split times today. Even if you put a foreign caller in, you're going to get half as many leads or a third as many lead out. Now with houses, it's the opposite. And the reason why is if they're getting 20 calls a day, it doesn't matter what the nationality is of the caller. There are no. Yeah. Okay. You know what? If they're getting three calls a day or zero calls a day, like most land guys, the fact that it's an American, they're like, oh, yeah, what is this one? Yeah. So it's actually a lot of people go, wouldn't it be backwards if it's more saturated from the Americans? I understand that thought process, but I seen the numbers on the back end. I guess a 20 calls a day. Their nationalities are relevant. So the less they're called, the more the Americans matter.

Joe: Because the thing is, you can't afford not to do that. Okay. So like you might look at well, cold calling house the same as direct mail, but it really does because you're going to get more leads from cold calling. And you have to look at it. That is cost per lead by but it just works. It pays for itself so many times over. I get it. You know, people are new, they don't have a huge budget, and they're like, man, I don't know. I'm they're scared. They don't know if it works or not. Right. Got to go there. Don't know. Well, if I get a deal under contract or I'm going to be able to summit. So talk about when you do the cold calling. You've seen you work with beginners and experienced. Yeah. So it's you know what works. You know. You know his programs work the best for you.

Nicholas:  That's right.

Joe: Hopefully mine is up there. So when do you recommend to the new students who are trying to figure out, like is this going to work. What's a good budget? What should they start with doing right.

Nicholas:  So on my website I read things I. The cool thing about us is four different sizes of everything we sell. So whether you have 500 bucks or 7000, I've got everything in the middle. So when people ask me how would I pick the package that works best? The answer is whatever matches your budget and your bandwidth. They don't give me more than you can afford. Actually, don't give anybody more than you can. Okay me, you'll see the lead averages. So I said, the King Kong gets 20 to 60 leads. You wouldn't say do that in one week unless you did this full time and had an amazing operation. So I tell people the average person does this over a four week period because you don't want wanting to 60 leads in one week. You want this job grow for a period. We can get time to work that. So I think those are the big things. Whenever getting started to help you feel the most comfortable. And one thing I just want to touch on earlier you said marketing that exists in spite of. And I had a customer look at meeting with me and said, you know why I love your service so much? Because even if I don't want to do real estate today or I still get a lead. Yeah. And most importantly, he would talk to me about how I'd feel them. Well, I might as well call it, you know, got I was kind of feeling down today and then it would really like lift him up. And it almost served as an accountability partner. What if I can't throw this lead away? I get a jump on this. And that's exactly what you're saying, in spite of whether I'm in the mood or not at that.

Joe: This is executing. Oh yeah. Yeah. I always say to don't try to fix your weaknesses. Outsource. Right, right. So if you're in my day, one of your weaknesses is picking up the phone. Then get somebody to do that for you, like make that call for you, because now it's a warmer lead that's sitting there in your inbox. Somebody's already parked. Yeah. All right, one more questions here, Nicholas. When you are getting the leads, what are your VAs asking sellers, what are some of the prescreening questions that you find work best? Yeah, for vacant land.

Nicholas:  So the intro to start is I'm looking for the owner of the three acre property in Galveston, Texas. And we do that on purpose. We want to cast a wide net when identifying who we are. I don't care that I get the acreage to say yes. We're good. Then. Have you ever considered selling before? It's a very important language. Clever, right? Are you considering selling right this second? What a great way to get a no. Yeah, by the second. Not at all. Like we want to expand the timeline. Then if they say yes to that, we asked 12 qualifying questions ranging from is it land law at all? Is there legal road access? Is it what are there cleared? Are there any utilities? Is there a survey. Do you have a survey to the property to your knowledge what can be built on it? We asked them if they're open to owner financing. We do not ask them how much they want to sell their property. Okay. Okay. So I have a whole theory which I can get into if you are about why you don't want to ask somebody after property rights. Okay. So land is different. This was a house gain. I have Zillow, there's no Zillow for land. So the reason why super offers don't work in houses, because they can go to Zillow and distribute immediately. And it might not even be disturbing. They just says hire. So they go with that. That doesn't exist for land. So with land, if you were simply ask them how much they want and they're like, it's not on the MLS, why would they say a small number? Why would they? You know, and I use this little parable that I created, which stands for a short story with a tale. And that is if I'm selling, if I am not the grocery store and I got a card, some guy goes, hey, how much for the car? Now my guess is $60. That's not even worth 60,000. Yeah, well, that's not for sale. Now, if I get out of the car and someone crouches me and says, dude, I'll give you $20,000 for that car right now, think about the change of that and our Joe. And the same thing exists for land. Which is why if you ask them how much they want, you're forcing negotiations to start here. And now you have to work your way down. What I recommend is you tell them when you get the lead, I'm going to do some online research and send you an offer within 48 hours. Then we then you make them feel comfortable. When you get this offer. Give me a call. I'm calling you on my cell phone. Call me right back on this line if you have any questions or concerns or if we're close on price, what we're doing is we're prefacing the emotions. We're basically saying, if you're frustrated in any way, just can't figure it out. And where that happens is, is you're now starting at your price and working up on script, which is much easier than their price because their price is going to be way I. You're better off bringing this up 20 than this down 60. And that's exactly why I share that.

Joe: Thanks. You have training on your website on sales and how to talk to sellers.

Nicholas:  I agree. Yes. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't know that in that. So I actually offer a free course on my website. Everyone knows it's a free course right at the top and I tell them exactly what to say. Follows what I just told you guys, exactly what to do and exactly the timeline to do it. And I do that because I've been in business for seven years, and it breaks my heart when someone hires me, and then I meet with them, because I also meet with all my clients for free. And then they tell me all these mistakes they made and I'm like, oh, well, let's do one more and don't make these mistakes. I made this course so you don't have to make mistakes and have me educate you and then pay again. You're now going to do the right thing the first time. Very cool.

Joe: Yeah. All right, one more question. Do you offer special discounts to my students?

Nicholas:  So what I offer to your students as a bonus, right? Which that's my vibe, right? I always say I don't want to make less. I want you to make more. So every one that uses the coupon code, Joe McCall, one word gets a $1 off, and then we give you 10% more. The reason why it's $1 off is so my. And so my team can identify that this is where we have to give the bonus to. Right. And then we give 10% more of everything. And that's a lifetime. That's a lifetime bonus. Every time you visit my website for the rest of your life, you could. But Joe McCall and people like, well, can I get discount price? Like I said, you want more leads. You don't want to save 70 bucks, right? You want a chance? A 10% extra chance out of closed deal. Yeah. That's exactly thank you.

Joe: Joe mccall.com/lead mining. Right. We're just go to lead mining pros.com and do the coupon code. Join call to get that in case you didn't hear it because the door slammed right there was you get a dollar off dollar and you get 10% more leads.

Nicholas:  10% more. Yeah. On all the deliverables. So for example, in the King Kong, you get 2000 records, we give you 22 and you get $3,000. We give you a 3300. And so everything's added to a 10% bonus. And that's a lifetime loan and stuff. But I think that's important to knowledge. Every time you go to the website you use it. That's huge. Yeah.

Joe: Okay. One more question. I said one more. One more. Again advice you give to beginners. You know, somebody is out there. They're just watching YouTube University learning about how to do real estate. They hear us talking about cold calling. They get hives, you know, and they're like, okay, well that's cool. I can hire somebody else to do it. But like, what kind of advice do you give for beginners? Just getting started. Maybe just don't know what they don't know.

Nicholas:  So I think the main thing is attitude and I'm not going to I don't want to sound cliche, so I'll make a make more sense. Don't poke holes in everything. You know, if I give a lead to a client, I can tell the clients that look at leads with the attempt to disrupt. The fact that it's a lead guy, you're going to find whatever you're looking for. And if you're looking for any leads. Yeah, you're going to find them. And if you can tell yourself it's a great lead, it's going to be a great lead. And I just wouldn't say that when you get a lead in it's natural. You know, when I, when I know something and I meet someone, I try to poke holes. Yeah. And their stuff too. But I'm reminding you that this is not the time to poke a hole. It's time to say. What can I do? Can I make the call? How can I get this done and really look at it through an optimistic lens? Because you're going to try to put a bow on it. And then when you put bow on it, you're going to talk yourself into not calling them. And you're not going to have to. And you're not going to get the experience and you're not going to learn. And then you're going to meet with me. And I'm going to ask you if you did all those things, and then you're going to pay me again. And then maybe do those things. So shortcut that I have a great attitude by not poking holes in the leads.

Joe: That's so good.

Nicholas:  Yeah, yeah.

Joe: I don't like I call them, I call them. Yeah, Butters. Yeah, yeah. Don't be a yeah butter. Yeah, but what about this, right? Just like trust the system.

Nicholas:  But I looked it up on the internet and, you know. Yeah. Just cool. I always say every 2 to 5 minutes of your time.

Joe: Oh, that's such a huge piece of advice there to, like, don't over don't analyze, don't even look at property up because you can't just call them scum. And then in fact, the reason I like doing that is because it allows you to, ask more questions. So, you know, because when you're in the on the phone with sellers, the more questions you ask, the more in control you are the conversation and the more just the better it is. Now don't do a bunch of research in advance. Yeah. Just pick up the phone and call.

Nicholas:  Right? That's exactly right. You don't want to get in this analysis paralysis. And now we say if they're a total asshole, hang up on them. And if it's a great call, never hang up. Yeah. That's really that's as simple as that. Yeah, sure. One little thing. And I just love this. So one of my high end clients was talking to me about how he trained his acquisition managers. And he says, you know what I do? I let and this was horses, but it's still relevant. He says, I let people. I say, I'm never going to drink less than 200,000 for the house. And then on the new acquisition manager shows him that we bought it for 95 pounds. And he says, if the only thing we aren't aligned on is price, do not hang up the phone, you know. And that's why I say that invites up the calls going well in any manner. Do not hang up the phone. It's going well, right? Only if they're rude and then a deadly something.

Joe: What do you do though, if you're that far apart?

Nicholas:  Well, no, it's a different story. But, you know, I think, you know, if you're that far apart and you just. You work on the pain, right? You work out well. Well, what are we doing here? One thing I recommend.

Joe: Maybe there's other options you can give them.

Nicholas:  Well, that that would create a financing something like that. But also what I would one strategy I recommend when we're far off on price is getting them on to what's next. I'm glad you asked them. You caught me off guard up front. I think the back up is here's a reality. If I have a house for sale or a piece of land that I'm attached to it, the more I think about it, the less I want to sell it because I'm thinking about it. Or if I'm selling that piece of land to buy a new truck. And you get me thinking about that new truck smell. There you go. Think about that. So it's like, I think we want to get people on what's, well, what's next for new sellers? Piece of land. What's next? And that's better than what are you going to do with the money? Because people hate. What are you going to do it what, once a year a business. So what your next. That's good. I just made that up on the spot.

Joe: That's right. Write that down.

Nicholas:  What's next after you sell this property. And then that will actually give you your purchase price. So another small story. I had a guy sell me a house in new Jersey for $45,000. This was my first real estate deal ever. Okay. And the way he got to that price is he wanted to bring his four family members to Disneyworld for two weeks. He said, I think that's going to cost me a $25,000. Wow, sir. And he was like, secondly, it's all he wants. His experiences at this point, you know, and like, if you can get that money in my hand, this place is yours. And that's a perfect example on what's next had a bigger priority than holding on to this thing even longer.

Joe: Oh, it's a little bit I'm always asked the way I do it to me too. I actually I stopped doing that.

Nicholas:  I literally just made that up. But that is so good. What I said, because people always had me with that's none of your business. Even though I still ask it.

Joe: Yeah, you know what's next? What's next? It could be they're just going to sit it in a savings account somewhere. Yeah. And you can maybe see if they want to be a private investors.

Nicholas:  Yeah. And then when you find out what's next, take a step further. You solve for that. Right. You don't solve for the land. And we're not talking about the land.

Joe: What. Oh, yeah. What did they say? Yeah, I'm going to just put in a savings account. Whatever you can say. Well, what kind of interest you're going to earn on that. And then you could offer owner financing and you know.

Nicholas:  Yeah. If anyone says anything. Like what? That's a great point.

Joe: I'm not a tax advisor, but are you going to be are you prepared to pay capital gains taxes.

Nicholas:  Right on that. Right.

Joe: Maybe we can like spread that out and you can get payments over time to lessen your tax burden. And I can make you more interest than you would have gotten, you know, so that could be an option for creative finance.

Nicholas:  Well, that's a huge option because a lot of people $10,000 in your pocket today we find. Hence the rest stop. We wanted the retirement. And you wanted the truck. I got your down payment, and I can. I got your truck payments.

Joe: That's good. It's listening. It's asking questions like, just being a, you know, a nice guy.

Nicholas:  Yeah. And then finding out their goals, working towards their goals. Not just we have a bad habit in sales to go me me me me me me. As soon as you're like them, them, them, you're gonna close more deals now.

Joe: Excellent. Yeah. I thought this was going to be a podcast about marketing, but we talked about sales skills, negotiating.

Nicholas:  It's really. That's what it takes.

Joe: Yeah, yeah. This guy is a wealth of wisdom. Super smart guy. Highly recommend lead mining pros I use them I want you to as well. A lot of my clients, I'm referring people to them all because you never want to recommend affiliates.

Nicholas:  Yeah. That's right. There you go. I don't so I don't know. Well I don't know how are you doing things like, I just, I just got you out there and I say, if you don't want to do this yourself, this is the guy I have. And on day, I'm thankful to be there. And if you guys know anything, give me a go.

Joe: Yeah. Hey, listen, if you like this video, let me know. Give me a thumbs up, comment down below the video. Let me know. Like, hey, what are the questions? Should I be asking? Should I have asked Nicholas? And what other videos would you like to see? If you'd like to see more videos about marketing and how to talk to sellers, and some of them where we may. I don't say cheaper gas can make you sound like less value, but like more alternative types of marketing that worked really, really well at not a lot of people are doing yet again, let me know in the comments. Please subscribe to the channel, hit that notification button as well and all the links will be in the description. How you can get in touch with Nick over at Lead Mining Pros. All right. Appreciate you guys. We'll see you later.

Nicholas:  Thanks man. Thank you brother, that was awesome. Appreciate it.