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Today we're going to be talking about probate leads. If you don’t know what they are, these leads could be the most valuable leads that you could find in your real estate investing business. These are leads where somebody passed away and they own some real estate, whether it's vacant land, houses, commercial properties, or whatever, that needs to be sold. These properties typically require a ton of work and the family just doesn’t want to deal with it. That’s where you come in.

If you can get these leads, you can print money almost if you do it right. My guest Micah Nicholes is a rockstar when it comes to probate leads and here, he shares everything you need to know. There are a lot of stories of stupid things that people have done with these leads, and there's a right and wrong way to approach them. Micah’s giving away a ton of valuable resources to help you with probate leads, including letter and direct mail templates and his marketing swipe file. Head to the link below for more info.

Listen and learn:

What’s inside:

  • How to find the best probate leads
  • Probate lead marketing strategy tips
  • How to talk to probate lead sellers

Mentioned in this episode:

Download episode transcript in PDF format here…

Joe:  Hey welcome everybody, to the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. Today we're going to be talking about probate leads. Probate leads. If you don't know what that is we're going to talk all about it. But these are the most valuable leads that you could find in your real estate investing business. These are leads where, you know, somebody maybe is an unfortunately passed away in the family and they own some real estate, whether it's vacant land or houses or commercial properties or whatever, that are need to be sold. And these are usually properties that have a lot of updating, a lot of, deferred maintenance where the kitchen, the room hasn't been remodeled in 30 years. A mom or dad had lived there for a long time, and there's a bunch of stuff, and the family just doesn't want to deal with it. They just want to sell it and get rid of it. So for years, I remember when I got started doing real estate in 2008, this was the holy grail, motivated seller leads. And if you can get these leads, you can print money almost if you do it right. And so we're going to be talking about that with my guest today because how you get these leads and then what do you do with them is really, really important. There's a lot of stories of stupid things that people have done with these leads, and there's a right way to approach them. There's a wrong way to approach them. And so we're going to be talking about that on this podcast with my friend. But first, let me tell you, he's got something really cool here. And if some of you aren't going to listen all the way to the end. So if you want to get these free things, you need to check this out. Because right now, if you go to Joe mccall.com/probate, Micah, my guest has given us a lot of really cool, amazing free resources, like a nationwide list of all of the, attorneys that do probate. We'll talk about that with him in a minute. Here. We also have all of his direct mail, pieces of the direct mail that he sends to the attorneys, to the realtors, and to the home owners or the people in the family in the estate. And you're going to get about 5 or 6 different types of letters that you can send out. These are going to be for the first mailing, the second, third and fourth mailing, postcards and letters. And so if you want his marketing swipe file for marketing that he is sending to these probate sellers, then go to Joe mccall.com/probate. Right now it's free. It's free. And also one more thing. I've always been confused, and I'm sure a lot of you have as well with all of the terminology. And sometimes different states use different terminology. And so he's got a glossary of all of the probate terms. I was just looking at it a minute ago. I'll show it to you in a minute here. But it's really cool. Like so if you can just pull up this PDF and look up a term and find it. So this is a glossary of all these different probate terms that you can get it all for free. And I think there is 1 or 2 other things in this that I forgot to check out. But if you go to Joe mccall.com/probate right now, it's free. Just put in your name and email address and we'll get that to you right away. All right. So I think we should bring Micah on, Micah Nicholes from US Lead List. How are you Micah?

Micah:  Doing great buddy.

Joe:  Yeah. Glad you're here. Talk real quick about what's in this list. I mean, you just said to me, and I was looking at like, Holy cow, this is awesome. You've got the realtor letters, postcards, different letters you send to the owners. You have a nationwide list of probate. Oh, this is the thing I forgot. You have the probate glossary, but then a checklist for buying probate properties as an investor. Talk about. Yeah. What's in this checklist?

Micah:  I mean, basically it's just, you know, most of it is common sense, but just stuff you should look out for things, kind of boxes that you want to check as you're proceeding into kind of transacting these kinds of deals because like you mentioned, they're just there especially you got approaching the right way. You got it. You got to do this right. And so but yeah, I mean, basically you summed it up well. Let's like my, my, direct mail swipe file. That's what I use to, you know, in my own business, my own real estate business and what I recommend to my clients as well for.

Joe:  Thanks for sharing this with us. I was blown away. One of the things, guys, just so you know, I get a lot of people that ask me to be on podcasts, and I filter them out. I say, you know, I just don't want to talk for an hour about how awesome you are. Like, I if you I'll if you're going to be on my show, I want to talk about I want you to teach us something. I want you to show us how to do something. I want you to give us something valuable in return for anything on the show. And Micah was like, yeah, let's do it. So he's given us his direct mail swipe file is checklist, his list of attorneys in the entire U.S, and he's going to talk to us on this podcast about how to find these probate leads. And he does have a service at US lead list that's been around for a long, long time. They're the authority in the in the industry on this topic. And he owns that company. We'll talk about that later. But we're also going to show you on this podcast how to do it yourself. And you might find out, yeah, I could do this myself. Easy. Or you know what? You can hire somebody like Micah to do that for you. But Micah, let's talk about the basics. You know, what is probate? What are probate leads?

Micah:  You know, it's like, oh, yeah, we all have an expiration date, right? As sad as it as it is to say out loud, but, you know, it's true. And so it's when someone who passes away, there's no, you know, direct. To send it. Or like, you know, a spouse. Usually marital law comes into this a little bit, but, you know, it's, they're the last surviving person and they have to, you know, basically, assign or have all of their assets be distributed amongst their that it's a fisheries and that could be nominated in a well or not. Maybe there's no. Well there's no obvious way. And so probate is it's a legal process to distribute those assets, in a fair manner. You know, creditors usually first and then all that's access goes to the beneficiaries, be it, you know, distant relatives or kids or whomever it might be. That's a, you know, just basic, you know, obviously it gets a lot more complex, but that's a good basic understanding of it.

Joe:  Just reminded me somebody the other day said, did you know you're going to be dead longer than you're alive?

Micah:  Wow. That's, that's interesting.

Joe:  That's great, isn't it?

Micah:  Yeah. It makes you appreciate it. Well, you've got right now, right?

Joe:  Exactly. We need a living like today and start thinking about tomorrow as well. Start thinking about. All right, I stick this. Let's keep this with real estate here. So somebody passes away. And if they own a property, it has to go through probate. Even if they have a will, even if they have a, an estate, and, you know, the it still has to kind of go through this thing called probate. And that's pretty much true in all 50 states. Right?

Micah:  It is. But there's kind of one exception. So if someone planned really well and they have a, you know, all of their assets in a trust that does completely bypass probate, it doesn't, you know, if their if their money accounts and their real estate is all in a trust and all of you know, everyone's already named, that does not have to go through that legal process. It's already kind of sealed, settled and done before they died. And so that's the one exception to that rule.

Joe:  All right. So what is a legal process when somebody dies? What is a legal process in a probate. And how long does it take on average?

Micah:  I mean it really varies. I mean sometimes, you know, you think of the moguls they've got, you know, tons of entities have got all these things happening and that can take years for them to kind of go through, evaluate, determine what, what it's worth and who gets what because there's predators and all that. But you know, on average, you know, we're looking at about a six month time frame. And basically, you know, when someone dies, they, they take the well and they fill out some, you know, basic paperwork and they take it to, you know, the local courts and say, hey, I need to get through this legal process. Typically that's, you know, helped. Then, you know, the attorney kind of acts as a Sherpa because it's this kind of logistical, you know, mess. There's all these things. There's a bunch of, you know, like you mentioned before, all these terms and like most people just aren't familiar with. And so, you know, usually that's the rule. Most people go, they hire an attorney, they compile all the necessary, documents and, you know, different components. And they present it to the court and they start they open a probate case.

Joe:  So what it means is if somebody owns a property, they can't just, you know, the family just can't just sell it right away. They have to kind of wait until that real estate is all cleared up to the probate process. Right?

Micah:  Yep. Yeah. Exactly.

Joe:  Okay. That could take a month, couple months, six months. And it's just going to take some time. So talk about why probate leads are so valuable. Why are they such good leads.

Micah:  Well yeah, I mean, you kind of touched on this earlier, but you know, when someone passes away, you know, we don't take anything with us, right? We all, all of our physical, you know, assets we have, they, they stay here. And so, you know, there's emotional components of why maybe a family member wouldn't want to take that house on. They just kind of want to unload it. There's logistical components of, you know, taking care of another place. But I mean, mostly I think it's just the, the fact that, like, the last person living in that home, they're no longer with us. And, you know, unless a family members moving in that, that it's going to go for sale, then it's going to transfer title to someone. And so, you know, the it's, it's baked in that the it's not like it's not like they're maybe going to sell. It's like it's really, really likely. They're almost assuredly going to get rid of this property in one way or another. And that's why they're get and you come across a variety of different scenarios. Most of them are they're dated and others they're just, you know, they they've been neglected. And so and to, you know, kind of back to land, it's like, you know, the there's no use for it. They don't they don't have a purpose. The emotional connections to that of the person who owned it, like those are passed. And now the family members getting it and they're ready to move on.

Joe:  Now, sometimes some families will fix the house up. They'll take the time to clean it out, rehab it, fix it up listed with a realtor, or even stage it to sell it to get the most that they can for the property. So that happens a lot. But a lot of times too, right? These family members, they don't want to deal with the hassle. Of cleaning it. Sometimes there's a lot of junk. I mean, it would cost some thousands of dollars to pay a company to come and just haul the junk out and then clean it and updated, you know, fix it. And they're just they just don't want to do it.

Micah:  Yeah. Yeah. And I think really where that ties in especially there is emotions like going through all those, you know, personal effects of people who passed away reliving all of that. And sothere's, a definite opportunity where, like, they just wanted to wash their hands, be done, and move on. Cash the check.

Joe:  Okay. And so we'll talk a little bit about how to get these lists here in a minute. But, talk about how, what is the process for somebody who's never heard of this before. You say you find an address of a home where the person is just passed away from. What do you do with that now? So what do you do with it?

Micah:  So there's a couple avenues you can go down. First is, you know, I like direct mail. I like inbound leads if I can. And that's just my preference for the scale that I want to do my business. And so I send letters and, you know, length of time here is important because you already said, you know, we mentioned established that it takes sometimes months, and potentially years for these people to have the ability to sell, have the choice. And so, you know, for me, I'm, I'm hitting people, you know, close to two years and I scrub my lists if it sells or if it's on the MLS or something like that, then I stop sending. But I just keep on mailing, my list because I know that if I do a good enough job representing that I want to buy this property for cash, I want to solve all their problems when the time is right, when that, you know, switch gets flipped, they're going to be like, oh, yeah. Micah, he's a guy. Something like for, you know, pieces of mail. He wants to buy this property. And, consistency is really, really key in that you can go another route and, and skip trace the, either the executor or the, the, PR or personal representative, and you can call them. And that's a good route, too. I have, you know, clients who are doing that or also, you can call the attorney, make a connection directly with the attorney, and that's a larger play. And we can get into that more of networking with these attorneys because like I said earlier, they're like the Sherpa, like these people, you know, probably aren't super familiar with this whole process. They don't know how to do it all. But the, you know, the attorney, like, that's their job. They're going through this every day. And so they're going to have other properties. They're going to need buyers. They're going to actively try and solve solutions, for their end clients. And if you can show up and help the attorney and also their clients by, hey, I'm just a one shop, like you don't have to clean it out. You don't have to do anything. Let me help you. That's. Yeah. So those are those are the ways that I would. I would reach out, and that's what I found to be most productive.

Joe:  These are great leads. And reminds me of a story I heard from one of my friends. He sent a letter to a lady saying, hey, if you want to sell your house, I'd like my. And, the bottom of the letter said, hey, if you don't want to sell your property now, please keep this letter for future reference. And so she did. She actually put the letter into a folder in her filing cabinet for house stuff. She passed away a few years later, and her family was going through all of her files and found this letter for this folder for House. And in there was a letter from him from probably 3 or 4 years earlier. Right. They called him and they said, hey, are you still interested in this house? And he said, yeah, sure. Of course he didn't remember. And they said, well, you know, she just passed away. And this letter says, if you're interested. So direct mail works, I love it. And I always put on the bottom of my letters, hey, keep this letter for future reference. If now isn't a good time because sometimes people will, you know, they may decide, you know what? Yeah, I want to sell it later. Or they're talking to a neighbor from a neighbor who just wants to get rid of their property. And you know what? I just got a letter from this guy, and they keep your letter and they give it to the neighbor or whatever. So something to think about.

Micah:  Absolutely.

Joe:  So again, typically these are properties that are free and clear. There's no mortgage on them because they've owned them for so long. For if there is there's a lot of equity in it. It's as a lot of deferred maintenance. These are properties that are going to need updating. They're going to need to be cleaned. And it's a family member through all the emotional trauma that they've been going through, it's they, don't want to go through the hassle of cleaning the property up and fixing it up to relist and sell it. They just want to get rid of it. That's where an investor can come in. Now, some people, I can already hear it are upset, Micah, that you're just taking advantage of a family who's in a rough situation. That's not right. So talk about that a little bit.

Micah:  Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, you can do anything. You could you could open a door for someone and it could be offensive, right? Under the wrong circumstances. And, you know, when I first started working these kinds of leads, like, I really actually struggle with that emotional, kind of paradigm because, you know, you, you know, that these people passed away, you know, that they're in an emotional, kind of roller coaster right now. But the flip side is. Wine. And I guess what I'll say before that is I piss people off often. With my marketing, I get people who are frustrated. I mean, f you whatever. And I think what it comes down to is just, emotional intelligence. And if you can recognize that the reason why someone is upset with you is because they just lost something that is irreplaceable, they're never going to get it back. They there's no redemption for it. And if you can come to an understanding and see their perspective, that's completely reasonable. And those people who are super angry, they, you know, they're the ones that are hurting the most. And so for me, it's like, you know, I let it roll off my back. I just, you know, I apologize for the interruption and I move on to the next person because that next person, they are literally elated. I am I am a hero to them because I'm solving a really big logistical problem that they don't want to deal with, be it emotional, be logistical, whatever it is. And they're just floored at how,helpful and how useful and how easy I make the whole situation. And so, you know, I think everyone should have that internal check of like, you know, emotionally, like, how is this going to affect people? But approach it from the angle that, you know, anything that we do for anyone could be perceived as negative. But there's a there's a group of folks who will take that same thing that was offensive and consider it a huge blessing. And those are the people that you're showing up for.

Joe:  I had somebody tell me one time, if you haven't made somebody mad by 12:00, you're not doing enough marketing.

Micah:  Absolutely.

Joe:  It's kind of true in this business with, like it or not, and none of us likes to make and people mad or make enemies. But you know what? My other coach told me one time, if you want a friend, go get a dog. You're not in this business to make friends. Maybe that was something Harry Truman said. But, like, yeah, you know, when you do, when you do marketing to sellers that are in probate, you're going to make some people mad. And, you know, I've got to have skin about it. And don't let it affect your body.

Micah:  Right. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Joe:  Okay. So let's talk about how. Okay, I still want to talk about how you get the list, but first let's talk about what do you send to them. And again guys, if you go to Joe mccall.com/probate you get Micah’s swipe direct mail swipe file right here. But talk a little bit about what's in this list here.

Micah:  Yeah absolutely. Yeah. So well one and the upgrade I like I don't put actually on there. So hold onto this letter. But I will say like I just got I don't know awesome lead were it was a similar situation. Like I sent it actually from the it was you know, obituary and, so the wife got it and then she passed away and her kids found it, and they called me. And so, you know, similar situation, like physical mail, you know, it's there, you know, people put it on their fridge, they hang on to those things, a voicemail, a text like those, you know, people aren't going back and, and, you know, reviving deleted voicemails and, texts that they didn't respond to months ago. But physical mail, you know, it's there. It's a representation of who you are, what your company is. And, that's for me, that's the real value in direct mail. And everyone's like, oh, it cost so much. It cost so much. Good marketing costs money. Like, if you want, you know, crappy leads and fines and, you know, do you know, do, do whatever, whatever's cheap to send the cheapest mail or whatever, but, if you want good leads, you have to pay for it. And, and that's, you know, that's, that's a very, you know, paramount pillar of any business. And so, but, yeah, I mean, my first letter that I hit people with and I and it's a little novel, but it works really well for our team.

Joe:  You know, like here on my screen right now.

Micah:  Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Joe:  So those of you that are watching this. If you're listening to this right now, just go to my YouTube channel and you can find this video there. I mean, if you hey, by the way, if you're liking these videos and I'm these interviews that I'm doing, give me a thumbs up. You comment down below and subscribe to my channel. Let me know that you what you like about these videos and what you don't like. And, I'd love to know your thoughts. And what other kind of stuff would you like me to talk about? So and thank you for listening to me on this podcast. But we're going to talk about these letters if you can. If you go to Joe mccall.com/probate, you can get that. But, this is the first letter that you like to send. And, you have an envelope here and here's, here's the envelope. It looks like the. Yeah. For the like this is the back.

Micah:  That's the back. Yeah. We put the address on the back so people recognize it right away

Joe:  All handwritten, an invitation.

Micah:  It's a handwritten font as well we use and then we use a real first class stamp like a decorative one. And then it's like a, you know, it looks like our letters look like, something you would grab from a hallmark aisle, like, it's almost looks like a condolence letter or something of the sort, you know. Yeah. And it's just like little, little. Details to kind of humanize your marketing, go a really, really long way.

Joe:  Let's talk about what this letter says here.

Micah:  I mean, it's so simple. Just as I have a question about your property, I'm not even telling them that I want to buy it. But what this does for me and, you know, my acquisitions guy, like, I have him take all the calls from this first letter. It basically, you know, it creates curiosity and, you know, from it took my normal response rate from, you know, 1.5% some in the Midwest, we get a better response rate than some other places, one and a half, 2% to, you know, 6 to 7%, which is me, bonkers as far as direct mail goes. I mean, that's just an insane response rate. And so what this does for me, that I've found and I've sent over probably 15,000 of these so far, is that I get to talk to all the maybes. I don't, you know, it's like the people who weren't, you know, had I just said, hey, I want to buy your property and you'll see that I get more direct as we go on, about what I'm trying to do, but I get all the people who had. I just said, hey, I want to buy your property. They wouldn't have called. And if you put someone who was good on the phone at creating rapport and active listening, you can create, you know, just instant connection with these people who are in the scenario. They may not be ready to sell now, but eventually they're going to be. And who are they going to? Who are that? Who are they going to sell it to? Some random guy or someone who had an honest, genuine, good conversation and listen to them heard their story? Like we both know the answer, right? It's like they're going to sell to you because they like you. And we like we do business with people that we like. And, and so that's the idea and yeah, you know, you have to triage. You get some people are like, oh yeah, I thought your column about the landscape, you know, we, we really like our landscape and whatever you hear, ignore that. But, but it's those maybes that you're really after, and I just want as much of a response as possible because I again, back to kind of the motivation points like these people are going to transfer, transfer title, you know, to some degree. And you know, with what I'm doing and mostly this, it's not just strictly probate, it's outside of that. And so maybe they're not going to, you know, sell it now, but they will in a couple of years. And so that that's, that's what we signed up for. And it's been a boon for, you know, our response and just creating, putting stuff in our pipeline, I love it.

Joe:  And I love this. I'm thinking about I'm getting ready to do a direct mail campaign for my, so for some vacant land that I'm doing in southwest Missouri right now. Yep. And I could turn this into a postcard, and you should.

Micah:  And I, I tried it with a postcard and, it I it was really good as well.

Joe:  I like this better than direct and then cold calling for one simple reason. They're calling me now. I'm calling them back if it goes to Ivy Smith or if I can't answer. Right. So the positioning is so much better on these leads, right? Yeah. That's cool. All right. So let's look at another one. Second letter also yellow letter, handwritten yellow letters. So go ahead.

Micah:  Yeah. Yes I mean super simple. I was just going to say that,us leaders are like sister company is yellow letter.com. And this is like the original literally the original yellow letter from back in like the, it was like 90s when they were real prominent. Yeah. So I mean, it's just it's, you know, really simple. I just, I want to buy your property. I mean, and so, you know, I'm just kind of I'm, I send a variety of mail pieces because you never know where someone's going to connect. Right. So like that first one, it's almost like a neighborly thing that this one, it's a little more direct. I'm saying, you know, it's made me, you know, the, that they've got an extra car parked in the yard. They just want to sell it now, and, and then, you know, I'll send a more professional looking one, but you want a variety of mail pieces to connect with the audience. Because I'm one mail piece isn't going to connect the same with another, for sure. Yeah.

Joe:  Okay, okay, I agree, I like it. And. And why do you stand, handwritten letters instead of typed?

Micah:  I mean, this next one's typed. Actually, they're not all handwritten, but, I think authenticity. I mean, the next best thing, is, is actually the best thing really is handwritten. If you if you've got time or if you've got a fleet of kids or, you know, some way to put out handwritten, direct mail pieces, like there's no, there's nothing better than that to get opened and your response rate is always going to be the highest.

Joe:  Now, this is a typed letter with, Lance, who used to only use lead list.

Micah:  Thank you. Yeah.

Joe:  That's funny, because you think I've always. I prefer the uglier, the simpler, the better. But getting a picture. Especially if you have a family with kids and. Dogs. You know, if you can put a don't put your cats in the picture, but like, you know, picture of your family. Nobody cares about your cats. All right anyway. Like it's a can you can get a nice response from them. But it's a type letter that says Dear Homeowner, I would suggest instead of homeowner put the seller's name, or. Yeah, this is something that came before I read this letter. I wanted to ask you about this because the none of this does it say, hey, I'm sorry about your situation or I'm sorry about what happened.

Micah:  Absolutely.

Joe:  You don't you don't like addressing that in this in the strict.

Micah:  No, no, I don't I don't approach it at all. I mean because so I was talking about this with someone else who does a ton of direct mail, and everyone takes their own ideas as the buyer of these properties, and they, they are looking through that lens of like, okay, what letter is going to work the best? And so, you know, to me, like, you know, the, the letters for the checks right now that everyone's sending, it's like that is super exciting for the person who's buying like the whole concept around that. It's great when people actually get that. Like I feel like for the most part it's just offensive. They try and cash. It's frustrating that, you know, it just, you know, it's they're not looking into the window of the person who's receiving it, which is the most important thing. Right? It's, you know, it's you want to be showing up in the way that your seller is going to respond to you in the best way. And so for me, that's where I'm basing all of my marketing material from, is the, the lens in which they're looking at the world, not my lens. That doesn't matter. My lens doesn't matter. I just want to have quality conversations and make an offer on their property. And so absolutely not. I don't ever recommend sending. Hey, I'm so sorry for your loss. I mean, you're putting yourself in the crossfire of all the emotions, all that pain, all that frustration. And that's going to happen anyway, even just sending these letters and but that's, you know, it's funny story. Like, I just, I have a client, and that's all he does. He says, sends these condolence letters. You know, I told him not to, but he does anyway. He's like, we had our best year ever last year. We wholesale 200 grand or something. I don't know, but, so it works. Anything works. But, for me, it's just like, how do you develop the leads that you want to have? And this is what I want to have. I want to show up to them authentic, you know, authentically and, because, you know, really, like, I care about buying their house. That's the pertinent conversation. And, you know, but it all starts from a good conversation first. And I want to have that be as ideally frictionless as possible.

Joe:  Yeah. So I'm not going to read the whole letter here. Again. Just go to John mccall.com/probate to get this letter. But it's a typed letter a couple three four paragraphs signature at the bottom of the picture at the top. cool. And you've got a postcard here that looks like a handwritten postcard. I'm interested in purchasing your house. I can buy it as is, etc., etc. call me. I'm assuming with these letters and postcards with the phone number, you're not sending these leads to a voicemail, right? Or an answering service? Are you somebody answer these phones, please say yes.

Micah:  Yes, yeah. We don't. So. What? At first, I never did that. I we would all we would just let them all go to voicemail. But, what I found was that there is a, there is a really big attrition rate where I just couldn't get a hold of these people ever again. And so it was kind of like one and done. So now, like, I have someone whose job it is to take these calls live whenever they come in and I you just and you just end up doing more deals, you have a higher success rate. You don't, you know, especially with these more targeted leads, don't have a crappy VA answer. Don't have don't send them like those are them anywhere you want them to come to you or someone who's who you trained and, and closed deals.

Joe:  Just send it to your cell phone. My goodness. You're not sending a ton of these letters out. You're not going to be getting a ton of these calls every day. You might be getting 1 or 2 a week, you know, 2 or 3 a week to put your cell phone or, you know, put a virtual number on there and then have a redirect to your cell phone. So these are these are calls. Because here, guys, if you want to send out of your competition and this is a competitive list I can tell you what they're not doing. They're not answering their phones. Right. And then this whole problem now playing phone tag when you try to call them back and they don't recognize number or maybe it's marked as spam, it just goes to voicemail. And then they call you and you don't recognize their number and you don't answer it. And so you're playing this voicemail phone tag game. Just answer the phone. Especially if you're so right. Right?

Micah:  Totally right. Completely agree.

Joe:  Good, good. All right. Since we're here in this thing, you've got a list of nationwide probate lawyers, this check list and the probate glossary. This is a huge spreadsheet.

Micah:  Yeah, it's pretty giant. Six megabytes for text is huge.

Joe:  Yeah. And it's taking forever to open up in Google Sheets, but it is a list of all the probate attorneys that you got from some data source database. By state. Names, profile, URL, address, phone number, emails, websites. Yeah, it's still not opening up yet in Google Sheets. So this is a big list. And what do you do with this?

Micah:  Well, so I mean, the other half of the scenario, the other half of this coin is, you know, there's probate, but then there's also, you know, just the event of someone dying is enough to initiate this, you know, someone to question what they're going to do with their real estate. You know, as, you know, spouses who've lived together for 30 years, one passes away and, you know, maybe they're going to go to, senior living facility. They're just ready to move on. The emotional memories, they're too strong. They can't maintain the properties, you know, all, all sorts of scenarios where it just it's the impetus to sell. And so what, you know, a part of the we're doing in our business is that, you know, I've got probate attorneys that are actively, you know, working with me because part of any transaction, if it does need to go through probate, is I'm really part of that part of the deal. And part of the underwriting is I'm saying, hey, I'll cover probate fees. And so I basically control this whole process because and then I take it to my lawyer who's, you know, I'm making him money, I'm paying him to help me with a service, but also as a sidebar, you know, and you can do this ahead of time. You can just tell them, hey, I'm going to be, doing, you know, active outreach to, you know, obituaries. And I know that there are going to be some cases that, you know, I'll bring to you as a service like, and I'd like to start this professional relationship with you. You know, would you be willing to partner with me on and tell, you know, your clients who need to sell real estate? Would you would you tell them about what you know, I'm willing to buy if they need to sell. And in trade for that, I'm going to bring this to you and I'm going to give you business with, you know, these leads that I'm generating and, you know, and there is nothing sexier than someone coming up to you and saying, hey, I'm going to make you money. And then you're asking for this small favor in return, right? It's like it's end to that, that favor that you're asking. That's a logistical problem for the lawyer. You're actually solving another problem by asking to take these leads because, you know, she's got to figure out, okay, you know, maybe I need to get estate services, you know? So, we'll do an estate sale. Maybe there's repairs we've got to make for the family if you can present to you as an option. And she's already got the authority with this family, right? They look at looking at him and taking his advice. And so he says to them without even you asking, hey, I've got this, this, this person, this is really what they specialize in, you know, would you, you know, consider me having, you know, them talk to you about giving you an offer on this property, and it's a win-win for everyone involved. And so that's really where those probate lawyers and having a network, you don't need it. Every single one. You just need a few, a few good ones who you can bring business to, and they can bring business back to your business.

Joe:  Good. Okay. Let's talk about how do you find these probate leads.

Micah:  Absolutely.

Joe:  And talking about some of the challenges because every county is different. How do you get this data. Where do you go? Things like that.

Micah:  Yes. I mean, so in Wisconsin it's relatively easy. There's a, you know, statewide database called Caps, here, where they're publishing all of the probate cases across the whole country. And so, you know, that that makes it easy. I can just query from my computer at home. And, and so, you know, that's how hard where it gets hard is, you know, some of these more rural counties, smaller states, underfunded states, and every state is different. Every county is different. And so some you'll have to literally go down there, bring a notepad, and you'll have to hand take all this information down for you, make a copy there or you snap, pictures, on, on their computer with your phone. And so, you know, you just basically have to find and work within the system that the government has. And, and, you know, some can be great and others are just God awful. So. Yeah. So.

Joe:  Let me share my screen a little bit because I just thought of an idea when you when you need to do something, what do you do? Usually you just, you go to the YouTubes. All right, so what if we went to YouTube? What county do you live in, Micah?

Micah:  Dane County, Wisconsin.

Joe:  Dane County, Wisconsin. How to find probate records Dane County, Wisconsin. Let's see if we get anything. And how to find probate records online. This is from Wisconsin court records that you got for Wisconsin courts records search start here. Type first name. Last name. City. State. Is this the actual government works.

Micah:  Say no, it's not. And that's. No, that's someone who's, some. Bait there. They're going to eventually ask you for a credit card.

Joe:  I should have never clicked that. That's a. How to pick up probate leads at the county office for wholesale real estate. Now, is this guy talking about Wisconsin or not? Wisconsin estate records just. Oh, that's another sponsor. Oh, watch out for the sponsors. How to find old court records online for county office.org. But let's do oh, the probate process in Wisconsin. Do you know this lady?

Micah:  No, I don't.

Joe:  She's got a video here. It's from a year ago. It's got 125 views. Here's an ad Clint Coons. I've had, you know, my podcast before for I skipped. So I don't know what this lady's talking about, but maybe if you go into this video she talks about, you know, where to go to get websites. I don't know. I'm not going to kind of go through this, but that's the one place to start. If you could also just Google that term right there to request probate records. Emailed Dane dot court records, at WI courts.gov.

Micah:  Yeah. Simple. Yeah. This is all public information. It's out there. It's you know this is it. It does take manual work. I mean just because there's a probate record doesn't mean that there's real estate in it. and so that's, you know, you kind of have to pass it through a sieve a little bit and pull out the stuff that isn't. Yeah, isn't pertinent.

Joe:  So I just googled it. And here is probate records are open to the public and can be found online at website WCCA dot WI courts.gov/index.xsl. And if I go here there's a page and you click I agree.

Micah:  And that's where I'm going to take you. That's exactly.

Joe:  Right. Walk me through. And then what I'll do for you guys is I'll show you how to do this in Missouri as well. Now if you're listening to this podcast I apologize again. Go to my YouTube channel. Just go to YouTube to search for Joe McCall and do a search for MCA and probate. And you'll find this video as we kind of walk through this here. But let's do this right now. Search. What do we do next?

Micah:  So go click on search and click on advanced. So go oh sorry. Go up in the in the search bar go search.

Joe:  Right here.

Micah:  And click the pencil that advanced okay. And there you have that go let's go to County and click on Dane.

Joe:  Dane County. All right.

Micah:  Okay. And then go filing dates. Well actually before you do that go to case.

Joe:  Type case types there.

Micah:  Where appropriate. Yep.

Joe:  Oh wow. Look at that. There's a case type called probate. All right.

Micah:  And then you're gonna have to choose a filing dates.

Joe:  Let's just choose one from like last month, April 1st to the end of April. Is that all right?

Micah:  Yep. Yeah.

Joe:  We'll be April 1st through April 30th.

Micah:  Yep. And then before you click search, go to case status.

Joe:  Case status. Closed. Filed. Only open.

Micah:  Reopen open. Oh reopen could work but open as. Let's focus on that. And now that should be good. Hit search.

Joe:  Search. But could you also, by the way look up evictions in this?

Micah: I don't it's funny. We were doing a big research project to see if I get that national eviction file. I don't know if you can. I didn't have luck here.

Joe:  I mean, I'll show you how to do it in Missouri because it's cool. Really cool. What if you could send a letter to the landlord every time you said when they're going to do an eviction?

Micah:  Absolutely. Hey, such easy pain points a target.

Joe:  Oh my goodness. All right, so here we got 79 records. These are probate opens between in the month of in the month of April in Dane County.

Micah:  Absolutely. So now you know, again, like I mentioned a moment ago, just because of probate doesn't mean that there's real estate involved. And so we've got to go through and search, if these records actually have real estate, there's gonna go through this process. And so I would just click on one of the cases and, you know, there's a second website that just basically aggregates county, real estate ownership, and it's called access dane dot com.

Joe:  Access dane dot com or you can maybe run this in prop stream or something too.

Micah:  You could. Yeah. Yeah. And I also I reuse regret which is free free grid.

Joe:  All the land parcel data you will ever need. All right. So I might have to sign in for some of this stuff. We won't do that. But, re grid.com isis something. And then this one website's asking me to download something from my browser.

Micah:  Oh, no. I'm sorry. That's okay. But I guess maybe just put access dane, and, to the search query.

Joe:  And then I'll bring up that. Oh, you're sending me to spam. Okay.

Micah:  Sorry about that.

Joe:  Well, let's look here. Here's a case that I clicked on, the estate of Annette,Zalinowski. Filing date just a couple of days ago. Up to another question. You know, like, do you wait a period of time? Because I don't think. Yeah. I mean, it sounds weird that, like, I've even had a chance to have a funeral yet, you know. Or is this a. Usually filed after they've already had the funeral and things like that.

Micah:  But on these records it says right there date of death. Oh four of oh four. So, you know, it happened 26 days ago, which is, you know, for, death of that, like, that's really fresh, frankly. How, at the same time, though, when you're, when you're dealing with probate like this, they're starting the process, right? They're, they're being motivated by what's on the other end of this process, which is them inheriting that those assets. Right. And so if they've gone through the effort to, you know, hire an attorney and get this going or, you know, start the probate process. Absolutely. I think that you should start marketing right away. Just do it the right way.

Joe:  OK. So we see a decedent here and, different counties or states call it different that the decedent is the one who deceased petitioner. That's maybe a kid husband or somebody.

Micah:  Yeah. Basically it's whoever brings those documents who opens the probate case. So that's what the petitioner is.

Joe:  So you see the address of the decedent is right here, 275 North City Station. And the address of the petitioner is different. So that tells me that, you know, it's they don't live together probably.

Micah:  Yeah. Yeah.

Joe:  Right. So would you copy this address and just let's just Google it.

Micah:  Yep. And, you know, pop it in. What is it? You could put it in access. Name. It's probably a condo. Guess.

Joe:  Let's look at what shows vacant land on the no satellite image, but still a street view. It's a new development. Yeah. So it's one of these townhomes probably right here. It's. See this right here. So it's new construction. If I just go Street view one click it disappears. I see Prairie View. But so it's a townhome in this place here, would you. If it's a townhome, would you still it may be a retirement community too. What would you do then?

Micah:  I mean, if, retirement communities. So that's why this is important, that you know, their address, you actually search for ownership. And so, you know, we need to go and find where, the county's holding this records are, so, you know, the be regret or the, you know, the access thing, like I was talking about to make sure that they're the actual owner.

Joe:  All right, so.

Micah:  Then I can I can share on my screen to I logged in the regret, but it seriously is an awesome resource if folks just want a free mapping tool to look at ownership information across the US. Great resource three.

Joe:  Great. Do you want to let's share. Well, I'm going stop my screen share and you share yours now okay. See if it lets you I'm using a new tool called Riverside. I've not done this before.

Micah:  Let's see here. Let's go to regret. And I have too many tabs up, I guess. There you. Let's just do one down. Okay? Oh, boy. I'm working on this. There we go. Okay, so I'll only put this over here so I can see what we're doing. All right. So regret is right here. And, so I can let's say I've got another case here that I had open that I was, looking at. So here's the property address. This, Lois, purling. So I'm going to copy that and pop it into the free grid.

Joe:  How much does free grid cost?

Micah:  But this is free that you can see. All you have to do is sign up, and, it's, it will give you property information for everywhere you go.

Joe:  Okay. When you go to free grid.com or whatever the website is, there is a button on the upper right that says go to map. And when you click that button that gives you to the map okay cool.

Micah:  Yeah. But when I on here it's interesting actually the lowest isn't showing up on when I went to, the access dane and I was wrong on. And so right here. Yeah. Lowest comes up as owner information here on this property, so I'm not sure, you know, national aggregators and anyone, anyone. You know, I run a data company. Anyone who tells you any database is perfect. They're liars. So. Yeah, just be aware of that. Anyway, so she is the current owner of this property. And so she, she owns this. And so, like, for this, this, this checks the box, right? You know, she passed away. They open probate, and they're gonna want to do something with this property. Yeah. Transfer it to an heir or sell it as is, or fix it up and sell it, at the, you know, highest and best value. And so, you know, this is something that's like, you know, you basically just go through this and you get a constant feed every day. This, you know, this is people's jobs open up these probate cases and you just work through, you have a VA, do it for you or you do it yourself. And it's a low cost way to get some of literally the best leads. The. There is and by way, you know.

Joe:  Free grid, you can upgrade to pro and get it information. It's only ten bucks a month.

Micah:  Yeah, it's I use it all the time as a great resource. I think, you know, you can even go in and you can download the entire database of the county to, and, so you can actually query across, you know, find, say, landlords who own a bunch of properties in the county and reach out to them like it's just it's a really good tool.

Joe:  Wow. Have to look into that. Okay. Thanks. By the way, real quick. Does it do overlays like you can see flood zone and

Micah:  I don't think it does flood zone. Let me play around here.

Joe:  And I'm looking at it showing like, this one, one of my old rental properties. It's showing previous owners and ton of information clear.

Micah:  So maybe a limited testing of flood zones, personal footprints, standardized zoning, elevation, current flood hazards. I think you have to pay for that. You got a. Yeah. So does.

Joe:  For pro. Is ten bucks a month to get that right? Wetlands, two FEMA flood and Wetlands Historic area.

Micah:  Yeah. Okay. So let's pivot from here and I guess, do you think we left any blind spots about probate? I mean, that's kind of the whole process. From there, you go into your direct mail campaign or you cold call or reach out to the attorneys. But there's another part that I want to, you know, and this is, you know, we've been on here for a minute. I don't know if you've got anything else going on, but. Well, I wanted to stop here.

Joe:  Before we move on, though, I want to show how it's a little different in Missouri, for example.

Micah:  Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Joe:  And, and there is a website I'll share my screen. And this is just how you would find it for your own counties, guys. Okay. So if you go to, if you just Google Missouri case net it goes to court. Stop mo.gov and you can do something like similar. You just go to file search. You choose the county that you want. So I'm going to choose Saint Louis County. Boom. Right there okay. All pending disposed case type probate. And, you start seven day search this simply just to tell the difference. On a Tuesday, March 4th, click find. These are all the probate and there is are 1111 pages of these. And you just click on one of them and it says PR small estate affidavit without will. And you can go here to parties and attorneys and you can see the addresses of the decedent's and the petitioners. And so you can see in this example here, the petitioner has the same address as in the dissident, and the heirs. So who knows what's going on here. But, this could be something where this person was born in 48. So maybe this is one of their kids that lives here. I'm not sure, but it's not going to hurt to send them a letter, you know? And if you copy that address, go to re grid. I'm going to put that address in there. It's an actual house. Look at that. And if I was a, a pro subscriber at ten bucks a month, you know, you can you can see the, the image street view of the property here, and you can see who the owners are and the addresses and everything of them. Yeah. And you can get layers. And if you're a pro, this is where you can go. This is important for vacant land is why I'm bringing this up. You can see flood zone and wetlands here. Okay. Super cool. But so it is a house. I would probably want to send on the letter. And again we're not saying anything of like hey, sorry for your loss. It's just. Hey, we have a question about your property. Give me a call. And when they call, you say you want to sell your property, right? So do you agree?

Micah:  I mean, yeah, they call and they, they kind of respond a couple of well, hey, what's your question? I'm all you know, my script is like, no, this is out of the blue. I'm a real estate investor and I'm looking for properties purchase. Would you consider an offer?

Joe:  Okay. Real quick, because I want to hurry up. But this, by the way, I'm looking here instead of probate. I'm now going to civil cases. Okay. Click find. You're going to see a lot more. There's hundreds of pages here. And these are lawsuits required title contract issues, people on scrolling landlord actions. Oh my gosh look at that. Now some of these are apartments. You may not want to target those, but you can see all these landlord actions. And in Missouri or Saint Louis County it's either a landlord action or rent in possession. And you can go through these. And if you click on one of them like here is a Joanna Butler versus Stanley Prince. If I open that up you can click on parties and attorneys and you can see the address of the plaintiffs and the address of the defendant. And this of the defendant is the tenant. Right. And there's the address of the tenant. And if I just Google that address, it takes me to what? Oh my goodness, a house. There's the street view. So there's a house right there. And so then I could take that address and I could look it up in regrade or prop stream and find out who the of freedom soft. Find out who the owner is, right. And send the owner a handwritten letter or something that just says, hey, do you want to sell your property? And you could even send someone that says, are you having a hard time with tenants that's not paying rent? Right now or something like that. I think I do. How did this guy know? Well, you know what, fool? It's right here in public court records. And most states have things like this. This is another thing to let me just go through this. We're looking at, let me do one more search here. These are just symbols. Okay, hold on here. Bear with me. Landlord actions, small claims. Oh, guess what you're going to see here. Here is somebody is getting sued. Small claims from a winter'srenters warehouse. This is one of those rent owned furniture stores or something like that, maybe, right. Guess what? They're having a hard time paying their bills. Unfortunate. Maybe they're having a hard time paying their mortgage or their rent. So what if you could ask them if they want to sell their house, you could go through here as well. One of the best lists is also utility shutoffs that can't pay their utilities. And if you go through this and I don't know if I'll be able to find one, there is one of the major utilities in the Saint Louis area. Here it is right there. Metropolitan Saint Louis sewer district. So if you don't pay your sewer bill, guess what? They will sue you in court and get a judgment against you. And they are very aggressive with it. So are these people are not paying their sewer bill. And there's the address of the defendant. 72428 blah blah blah. Click on the address. Look at it. It's a house. So whoever lives here is not paying their sewer bill, which means they're probably getting their water shut off also. And if they don't pay it, they're going to. This is a nice house in a great neighborhood. Maplewood, which is a great area. You can go and just get a list of these. So what if you could go into court records? If you're getting anything out of this podcast, I hope you're paying attention. Go and do the court records and look for these small claims judgments for things like unpaid credit cards, like you'll see in the if you go into Saint Louis County, you'll see Discover Card chase suing people. You'll see utilities, public utilities like MSD, you'll see court evictions, you'll see target card. I've seen target cards here before. And then in addition to evictions and probate, what a great list. You could now send letters to the owners of these properties. Maybe whoever lives here is a, a tenant. But guess what, holder? The way that it works in Saint Louis, the owner is responsible for the unpaid utilities on that property, and they will pursue judgment against the owner of the property, even if it's the tenant who's not paying it. All right. So anyway, I get excited about this. Micah, this is this is amazing, isn't it?

Micah:  I mean, you know, it's. What are you talking about? It's just so important. The section easy, easy doesn't work, all the time. And good marketing pays off. And so it's like, how many, how many investors are marketing to kind of what we're talking about here. Maybe 1 in 100. Like there's just it just it's not that common. No one's willing to put in the work, do the time and put together a list. It's similar for like driving for dollars. Right. You know, it's like you can go see things that no one else can see that, you know, they can, assemble on a piece of paper in a spreadsheet because you're actually looking at a house and you can predict motivation from that. And, yeah, I don't think there's many better ways to put yourself in a position to grow your real estate business by this kind of marketing that we're talking about.

Joe:  Oh my gosh, this is crazy. Because what if you had a VA that every day just went and looked for these properties for you, put them into a spreadsheet, did a search for them in props dream for in re grid. This is a property that's right now being pursued from a company called Midland Credit Management. They're suing this company. They're out of Kansas City, Missouri. Maybe it's just some kind of credit card or whatever for suing. And I have no idea what this amount is or anything, but they're pursuing the judgment against this lady at this address. And if you go here, you can see she's owned this house for one year, nine months. And it's not an absentee landlord because the mailing address is the same as a property address. And if they're having a hard time paying a little credit card bill, they might be having a hard time paying their mortgage. And maybe it's time for them to, you know, maybe they just want to sell their property, but they just bought it a year ago so they don't have as much equity in it. Right. And now you can maybe offer to just take over their mortgage and they can move on with their life. I don't know, a lot a lot of cool things here. Let's talk about Micah. There are other ways to get probate leads. We've talked about contacting attorneys, networking with attorneys. One of the if we didn't show we have a letter that you like to send to realtors.

Micah:  That was actually, a realtor sending, these same leads, just, you know, trying to connect with those folks. So, other, other direction. Okay. So, I mean, part of who we service to is like this. This applies to realtors as well. It's like there's this is a great lead, source for anyone who's trying to transact real estate, period. Yeah. I think the, the last main thing that I wanted to show and at least talk about was so like, okay, well, we talked about people already starting probate, and I have we alluded to this before and this is kind of where that that play is to get. Help that attorney and give them a value piece. And so like okay, how do you find properties that are going to sell and maybe perhaps go through probate that haven't started yet. And so you know what? I look at what I use and I can share my screen again here. Yeah. And see if I can do it the right way. Window of, the. Okay. Is, is obituaries. And so, here we've, we've got, you know, an obituary, someone who passed away, you know, relatively recently.

Joe:  Did you go to.

Micah:  This is legacy.com. And so they're just a national aggregator of, probate records. And so you can go on here and you can search, you know, I go over to this one.

Joe:  This is browse obituaries by city newspaper.

Micah:  Yeah. So you can you can search location by the United States, select region. Let's go to Wisconsin and, let's go to Madison. Okay. Apply filters. So now it's going to pull up every old bed, you know recently for my area. And so again, like, you know all of this is there's tourism for the most part. You know, it takes about on average eight months from, from when someone passes away to one, someone you know, actually goes through probate and not everything will go through probate. And I just want to talk about that a little bit. But let's, let's, you know, basically we're going to have to go through that same thing. We have tofigure out, okay. So, passes away. Are do they own real estate? Is it even pertinent to have a conversation? So let's look at this Timothy Becker guy. So I'm gonna grab his info and copy that. I'm gonna put it into access date over here. Where do I that auto populates.

Joe:  Is the website from the county government where you can look people up.

Micah:  Exactly. And so you can see here this is his properties. Looks like he's on a couple some acreage, just north of Madison is actually an awesome property. So he just passed away, and there is no probate started yet. So. So here's where it gets interesting, because if you can talk to this guy, you can, you know, line up this scenario by sending what we do. How I do it is I just send a letter to this address to his home address and, and it's just, hey, I have a question about your property and what, you know, if someone is managing this estate, someone's checking the mail. Someone's got to make sure that the bills are being paid, the lights are going to stay on because they're impromptu stepping in to take care of all this guys, you know, logistics until this gets settled. Right. And so normally what happens is folks are forwarding this mail to themselves if they're out of state or they're actually going there to check on the property. And so if you send this person a letter and you get to make a connection before they take it to probate, before they've made any decisions, and you can have a quality conversation with whoever is going to inherit this property, you can set yourself up to, hey, I will buy this property, I'll cover probate. I have I have a really, you know, really great probate attorney. Let's, work together on this property and I'll transact for you. And so instead of doing it at probate, we're setting everything up before. Before anyone has a chance to go in and, you know, fight for this thing. And because, no, I can I can guarantee, like, there's just almost no one who's playing this game right now. And this is all free. I mean, you saw what I just did, like, I just went in, I search, you can have a VA do this for you. It's not art, but I want to look up this other guy because this is really interesting. And this is something that we do as a service that I think is super valuable. And it's something that will come up and everyone should have their eye out for this. So this guy, he, he, you know, this was published not that long ago, but I'm going to go on here, I'm going to drop his name. And so there's, you know, and in everything there's an 8020 split. Right? 20% of people own 80% of things. For 20% of the people that you contact are going to make you 80% of your money. And so this guy you can see here, he's got, you know, a bunch of chunks of the lands, some, you know, looks like maybe some commercial property here. He's a landlord. He's like, he's like us that he's in, in doing the same things that we're doing. Right. And so what you see and what I see on a national scale is like these people who own additional properties, they're, you know, they're dying like anyone else. And so if you can transact and work with and make a connection, this, this instance, this is somewhere sometimes where it this actually. Probably wouldn't go to probate. And I'll explain why in at least some Wisconsin that's a marital status. And what that means is that his wife, Donna, is on title with Helen, and because they're married, she automatically inherits that property without having to go to probate. And so this would bypass probate completely. You wouldn't know unless you were actually searching here. And so she owns these properties now, without any legal process or due diligence, basically all you have to do is submit your death certificate to the courts to mail. They'll remove Frederick from the deed and she can sell it at. Well, but let's, you know, click on this property. It looks like it's, a commercial building. So you can see that it is there's a commercial building there, billing address, you know, is separate than the primary address. And so this is an absentee owned property. It's an investment of some sort. You can reach out to these people, find these people. And, you know, maybe this lady had nothing to do with the properties or managing them. And, you know, all of a sudden her husband passes away and she's in a place where she actually needs help. She doesn't manage it. She doesn't deal with it. She just wants to get it off of her plate because, you know, it's not part of her lifestyle. These are, in my opinion, the best leads that there is where, you know, a landlord passes away, someone you know, wife or spouse, inherits the properties. And then they, they want to get rid of them because they don't want to have to deal with them. And so this is part of what we built out on our service, where we're like, compiling these additional properties of anyone who passes away. And we'll include them with our lists, you know, as part of our service. And you can do this manually. You can see, like this, this person, they just owned a lot of real estate. Yeah.

Joe:  This is so cool. I'm glad you're talking about this because, it's a lot of work, right? If you go and do this on your own, you're going to pay a VA to do all this research for you. You're going to spend all your time. If you want to do it yourself. You need to have all these subscription tools to free grid and legacy.com and, you know, skip tracing services. I mean, you're gonnahave to know how to navigate and get into all of these county court websites and look up this data. Wouldn't it be nice if you could just go to somebody like MCA from US lead list and say, hey, can I get leads from my county and you do all the work for them, right, Micah?

Micah:  Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a little bit different, like where we really focus. It's on the, the pre probate side kind of what I just showed you that last little bit. but yeah I mean to be fair though, I might have to say no, because we only sell any given county three times. And so, like, Saint Louis, there's no availability there. I can't, I can't sell that, I won't, but. So it's worth the question if it seems like a fit, like, you know, happily, a conversation either way.

Joe:  And you'll do the smaller counties too, won't you?

Micah:  Yeah. I mean, we are literally national every month in about five days here on the fifth of the month, we are we push our new list. And so every single county in the whole U.S, we're generating leads.

Joe:  And so there's, you know, let's say Saint Louis County, my main county isn't available. There's a bunch of neighboring counties even though they're smaller. And because they're smaller counties, you probably, you know, probably don't have to pay as much for those, right?

Micah:  We call it. Yes. I mean, but we charge per lead. So it's on a per lead basis basically. And that's how we do it. But what I will say about those smaller, more rural counties is that real estate marketing really doesn't hit those parameters, like how many people are acting in in Saint Louis, but outside in those rural areas. And you see this with land, I'm sure, too. It's like they're just not used to they don't see the same kind of marketing that homeowners do in metro areas. And so you send them a letter, you send them multiple letters. And, your marketing dollars can actually go way much further in more rural areas. And that's where I transact a lot. I keep on expanding more in the rural areas around. Yeah, yeah.

Joe:  Especially the vacant land. I love vacant land. Can you give people different, inherited property lists? Probate lists? For vacant land, even two?

Micah:  Yeah. We do. It's kind of a separate thing. For that, we do have inherited vacant land, but we only sell it one time. And we, sell it for a whole year long subscription. And so, you know, literally there are, 50 of those and we've sold a good amount of. So there are some states left, but a lot of them aren't, they're gone until I guess renewal point will be it's kind of like end of end of this year late, you know, like fall this year when people start renewing and they all have first right of refusal.

Joe:  We haven't unless somebody can get on.

Micah:  Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. Good.

Joe:  All right guys, so if you want more information again go to Joe mccall.com/probate Joe McCall.com/ Probate. You can get the stuff that we were talking about for free. And there you also get a link to get more information on, hooking up with us lead list. Micah, I'd like you to go to that link. Micah will give you a. Good deal. And you can schedule the call, just as I'm sure you're going to have questions about how all of this works. And Michael will be glad to help you with that. And thank you so much for your time here. I learned some really cool things here on this podcast has been good and I love being here. Micah.

Micah:  Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Always a pleasure to hang out with you, and I'm glad I got to share a little bit and hopefully help someone kind of level up. And, yeah, honestly, if anyone even just has questions about what I'm talking about or scenarios like happy, happy to reach out and chat. So yeah.

Joe:  Excellent. Joe mccall.com/probate. And we'll see you guys later. Thank you again Micah.






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