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Paul do Campo joins me here to talk all about following up. If you get the right systems in place, you can convert 30 to 40% of your dead leads into deals. We’ve all heard that the money is in the follow up, but nobody really understands how to do it. Paul walks through the exact system he’s created for investors. Paul’s system is a whole different arsenal of tools that can save you from chasing those pesky manual tasks that can really drain your time.

Paul demos how his system helps you draw in leads by using problems and solutions and how you can customize different sequences to fit unique situations. He talks about how to hit people from multiple angles through email, social media and direct mail. We also chat about the benefits of a direct mail strategy and how to incorporate this system into your business. Click the link below to get access to all 24 of the sequences Paul shared here!

Watch and Learn:

Listen and learn:

What’s inside:

  • All about Paul’s system for optimizing follow up
  • How to customize sequences in Paul’s system
  • Tips for how to incorporate the system into your existing business

Mentioned in this episode:

Download episode transcript in PDF format here…

Joe: Hey, what's going on, guys? Joe McCall, Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. And we got a good guest today. His name is Paul do Campo. And we're going to be talking about follow up. Because if you get the right systems in place, you can convert 30, sometimes 40% of your dead leads into deals if you learn how to do follow up. Paul, how are you. 

Paul: I'm good man? Thank you for having me on. 

Joe: So, Paul, tell us a little bit about yourself. 

Paul: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, yeah, everybody knows that, the money's in the follow up. I mean, you hear that? I've been hearing that for years and decades, so everybody knows that. But it's, you know, how to follow up. Nobody really understands how to do it. So I'm gonna I'm happy to come on and share my whole system of how I did it for myself, how I create it for other investors, everything complete. I mean, as far as the sequences we plug in, type of message and type of copy, what to look for SMS and email deliverability and not just using SMS email. We're using a whole, arsenal, different tools for following up so that yes, your system selling for you, rather than you constantly chasing doing manual tasks to manual task after, after one another, but just a system to plug people into because the biggest issue I whenever I'm in contact with some investors, the biggest issue I find is that they come to me and they say, hey, I got a thousand leads in my database I haven't talked to in a year, two years. And they want to know what to do with it. Now, the biggest problem with that is that, you know, if it's a year or two, you have to talk to them. That's pretty much a cold lead now. Yeah. And so I'm trying to fix that problem, that problem where all these leads are stacking up and stacking up. And there's a couple ways you can try to communicate with those. That pile of dead leads. Nine word emails, Dean Jackson's famous nine word email, couple of text messages. But biggest, the biggest opportunity for you is fixing that so it doesn't happen to get where you're constantly contacting them via valuable, valuable messaging. We're going to talk about all that here. So follow up is the whole follow up game. And what I know is what brought me here today where I'm here. I moved to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. We homeschool. I don't have to report to anybody because I learned, how to create this whole follow up system that adapts to pretty much any, any industry, any company. So going on. 

Joe: Let me say this before you read on, go on the importance of follow up because I, one time this is a year or two years ago, we looked back in the last 12 months and we did 58 deals, and we looked at a how many of those 58 deals came from the first conversation? In other words, you just talked to them one time only for four of those deals. Of those, 58 came from the first conversation with the seller. If we would not have done any follow up, we would have only done four deals that entire year. Are the average and this these were our numbers on average. It was, 2 to 3 months of follow up and about 7 or 8 touches. Now, some of the follow up lasted for a year. Some of it was just a month, but on average 2 to 3 months, 7 to 8 touches. And it's just crazy. When I saw those numbers, I always knew it was really good, but if we would not have done any follow up, we would have only done four deals that year. Isn't that crazy? 

Paul: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And you know, and it's perfect segue into what I'm about to talk about is, I think a lot of people that a big principle, when you start building your own follow up system, is to understand most people really underestimate how many touches it takes. So, you know, each industry is different. Each markets can be different, each business can be different. But, you've heard maybe seven. You said, you said on average seven for yours. I'm gonna show you a screenshot of, of a client of mine on how many touches it took on average and a certain deal that he's got in his that he covered over. And I just want to say this, I have a I have a peer that sells copywriting courses, and I must be really well known in, in the code copywriting world. And it just so you know that like a real estate investors, we are in this kind of bubble of learning from each other, this whole real estate world. And we don't know that there's these other sort, these other like multiverses of, different, different businesses and niches. But copywriting is a whole other like bubble where people are learning from each other and they're selling courses and as coaches and gurus inside of there. So a friend of mine, he sells copywriting course is very well knows, and his name is, Daniel Russell. He's averaged out he's a Daily Mail person as well. And he's averaged out for a simple $200 course. It takes, on average, 150 emails for somebody to finally convert over and buy that or so. So I just want to reiterate how a lot of people I think are, underestimate how much, how many touches it actually takes. So, here's a screenshot of inside of somebody's CRM client of mine. On the bottom right, I'm circling a shows 58 days on average that an opportunity that, that a. Seller or a lead response. So 58 days there in your system and it takes him to respond. I've seen I've seen a little less than that. I've seen 60. I've even seen 90 days without on average. Now the next slide showing an actual deal, the transaction not close. That came from a, from one of our, drip sequences. And, it's showing. I'm, I circled right here, 189 touches that it took for this deal to, not report over, but in total. So this this does include on the back end, you know, transactional touches right here. You're trying to close your, your, you know, talking with escrow and all that, but 188. So this includes, you know, all attempts, this includes SMS attempts. And then if you consider, you know, and I would say Joe, maybe for that for your average it's actually more than that. Because if you consider them also seeing some kind of digital ad or go on your website, that's also a touch. So that's important. I'm going to tie that into my whole follow up system on how I create this kind of universe for people to make. That creates multiple touches for people to actually see why you trust you, like you, etc.. So this the opportunity take 189 for some of my clients. You know, it's less than that. It's partly you know, it all depends on market to market, business to business. I've seen 70 touches. I've seen 40 touches on average. But again, those touches are call attempts as SMS sent, email sent, etc.. So it's everything. So my little like three axioms or three secrets to creating this type of system, creating high converting follow up I break you down with three. First, you start with what I call the pipeline system creates creating your pipeline system. This is this is your system that removes your feelings, removes chaos, removes disorganization from it. But you're creating a way of doing things. Self-worth bank. So you're not this is another big problem is you're not saying, are you still interested in selling over and over again? I think a lot of messages struggle with that. And we're gonna I'm gonna show you how to actually break through that and send things that are valuable, but have this subtle question, have this little ask there and then my, and then what I call on my channel. Basically, we have access to all these tools using them for follow up. So okay, so, developing your pipeline system, I think that's, you know, because I worked in the pipeline thing. That's not me. That's just another, our folder I found. But, we're going to create a pipeline system because let me go back to that. Actually not that's pertinent. So because I'm like you said, most of the most secret deals are coming from follow up. So this is, this is, friend of mine, also client Adam. Adam Whitney, you said in a webinar just recently, and I decided to put this in, but he said, he used to say that drips don't work. And, I'm going to explain why they don't work for a lot of people, but. Yeah, I heard about my system. We plug that in. Now, 40% of his deals are coming from these drips. But drips don't work because it because if they only using 1 or 2 buckets. And I'm going to explain that, in a little bit, but we're going to break down your buckets. I have 24 different buckets for, for wholesalers targeting single family houses. Land is going to be a little less than that for land. You are just doing, for land acquisition is going to be a lot less than that. House on. Why? But, but maybe drips don't work because one they have they have only 1 or 2 buckets you're using. And I'm going to explain why in a little bit. So the drips do work. This is a client of mine is a screenshot of how he, how he, this is a I didn't tell him to do this. He randomly sent this to making introduction, to another friend of his, and he said that his ROI is 100 x cost of what he put into it. So drips do work. You just first need to develop a way different buckets to plug your leads into. So all the way of drips and why doesn't work because they don't have a pipeline. All it is a lead gets in, comes in, and then when they stop making contact with the lead or lead stops making contact with them, they just drop them into this random bucket in the picture. If nobody can see this is a bucket, it says no contacts sequence. And you see a picture of Mr. Victor vacant house going in, Mr. Louis, landlord and missus, Polly probate all going in into this one bucket. The problem with having one sequence, one automation is that you have you can't target, you can't make any kind of, copy that targets it. Everything has to be generic. And you can't have like a specific call to action. So meaning you've got people in here that have been given an offer that haven't been to an appointment yet that said. No, that said, that said, your offers too low or hey, we have we are on the fence, etc. so you can't be specific on what's going on. So a picture here shows a little pipeline or my little rendition of a of a pipeline here with little valves in the middle. These are gate. And so to develop your pipeline you have to every time I come into a, a business, a business. Yeah, I charge quite a bit for a different industry, have me come in and develop their whole, the whole cell system marketing system on the back end of things, and I'll come in. The first thing I do is I want to know what is the different stages and phases. Of a pipe. In this case, for a seller. It's really it's three simple ones. We first need to push them to the appointment. Once a lead. A lead says yes to us, right? We get in contact with somebody who is an actual seller. First, we need to get an appointment. They need to get them, an offer. Then we need to close the deal. Really simple. Really, really simple pipeline. But it gets a little more confusing when you start having leaks in that in those gates. Right. So, you know, before that appointment for you, open that gate to get them in an appointment. They're not ready. Right. Whatever it is, whatever excuse they have not ready yet. So that is a, one bucket to put somebody in right now, because I have now I have a call to action I can leverage. I know I need to get them first into an appointment. Right. They missed an appointment. You know, that's a leak right off the. You know, at that appointment gate. They miss that appointment, right? Now, these are just examples of my sequences, but, offer made after you made that offer. There's a bunch of little leaks that can happen, right? They tell you that your house, they're going to fix the house themselves. They tell you they're not sure yet. They're waiting on other decision makers, your offers to low, etc.. And then finally, I on every business, I had some kind of process to collect referrals and reviews, right? For sellers. I think this is really underestimate or not. Not, I under tapped is developing a way of, of, collecting reviews, you know, that starts at the, at the click your quote closing table. However you're doing business collecting that video review, then collecting, other reviews if you have a good presence and all that, and then for and asking the question maybe three months down the road if they know anybody else selling. Right. It's a simple it's a simple, you know, would you like fries with that question you can ask at any point of your process. But it's but if you if you get ten deals a year, you know, there's a good chance me one of them is going to have another, you know, somebody else that's selling. So I add all these components to whenever I develop a system for an investor. Now this is I 24, I said I have 24 sequences. I do for, for Joe's. You all you can get. I'll send you all the 24 that we have. Here's, here's a look at them. So miss, a point is obvious. One I look at there's like cart abandonment type of flow if anybody's like familiar with e-commerce. But we have to book deployment. I drill this having a booked appointment like a pre-selling appointment where you know when. 

Joe: Sorry Paul, real quick. You mentioned my URL. I put it in there on the screens for you guys to see if you're watching this, but it's Joe mccall.com/drip Joe mccall.com/drip. And when somebody goes there what do they see there real quick. 

Paul: Yeah I'm going to send them the sequences. All 24 of the sequences that we have I'm going to show you there's a guide on how to build these out to on how to build a messaging app. And there's going to be some samples on what you can say I have I mean, I can't there's like 400 plus steps we have to in our sequencing. Meaning like inside of them, we got emails, we got SMS and all that, etc. but I show you how to build that out. When you, you know, if you choose to build out yourself. Okay. 

Joe: Yeah. Cool. That's why I put the URL there guys. Joe mccall.com/drip. All right go ahead. 

Paul: On this screen I've got five is an example here. But we've got a book deployment. I was talking about the book deployment. You know, whenever I think, you know, immediately you could start doing this and, it it's just a good customer service type of, of way of doing things. Again, every, you know, systems follow ups is just it's just a way of doing things. And whenever I book an appointment with somebody, I think it's pretty cool when they are easing my you, when you, when you jump in an appointment, you're a little nervous subconsciously about who you're going to. You're dealing with, you don't know who this company is, what they do. Exactly. So I want to calm those nerves. I want to pre is called pre-selling. I want to pre-sell that a little bit. So we have a book deployments versus. It's really simple to do. Probably plug in four different tasks to make sure you text the person before the appointment to make sure they show up to, to cut down, you know, show rate if you're doing phone call appointments and then and then to, to build rapport before, before the person actually shows up. Right. So offer to low fixing themselves. Another one we use because we know that most people aren't going to fix the house themselves, even if they tell you to. So I'm leveraging value meaning like I'm sending them. I'm sending them actual tips. It's called a tips campaign in the marketing world. And I'm actually sending tips like, what are the top five rehab items that give you most bang for your buck? I'm telling them, hey, make sure you, if there's a mechanic's clean for a contractor, remove that. Hey, make sure you're telling your insurance, make sure those little things. And then I'm leveraging that pain as well. Subtle, right? And not hey, I'm not doing it. Text messaging is kind of a funny marketing medium. You don't, you got to be pretty subtle things. You got to brief things up. You can't have this long tailed, winded, message you have to pick. I'm gonna talk about different, words you can use for SMS, but, you have to pick 1 or 2 benefits and plug that in. You can have a long tailed. SMS message. Deal. Close this again is that I want to grab a testimonial on the referral. And then no appointment, no offer. Landlord. So this is an example we segmenting I actually segment into landlord vacant house and owner occupant because I can now if I do that I can now leverage actual pain points and direct solutions that the other people don't understand. So again 20 I have 24 sequences. This is how I used to a funnel by call up pipeline now. But again I do this because I can have a clear call to action. My messages are not generic anymore. Like are you still interested in selling, you know, targets, pain points, objections and all that? Okay, Joe, do you have any questions about that? It's just really simple about developing your own pipeline. 

Joe: No that's good. 

Paul: Okay. So the next part of the equation, next part of building out a system is then I need to start grabbing what I call it like the seller word bank, which is I need to know all the all the value I bring to the table. I need to know all the stories, all the pain stories that are happening in the market today. So, so here's so, so if I don't do that, if I don't know how to do that, and I'm going to show you a really quick, really great way how to do that. The problem with today's trips is all again, I'm reiterating all you know how to say is asking a very direct question. Are you too much in selling now those questions are important. But you know, if you have to follow up 70 times in the drip sequence and you can always say that so many times, and then that's a self-serving marketing message. It doesn't get any value to the person. So we want to give value and to the way to do that is, what before this screen shows my like copywriting 101 features benefits a really quick way to do this. I think this that this is a story, that will develop your confidence and also develop this whole sell it word bank for you. I remember when I was struggling was first door knocking and all that and, you know, probably three months in not knowing what the heck I'm doing. I had an old school investor at the time named Jim Keller, and he put me the side silos. I was frustrated, I was expressing my problems. And he said, why don't you first do this? Sit down and write 100 different ways that you benefit a seller? Because every time we go into a new investor goes into appointment, he's thinking it's just about price, it's just about the offer. But there are a number of ways that we directly benefit the seller. It has nothing to do with the price. So I sat down. I wrote down maybe 50. I didn't get to 100. But things like, so you save this, save them from embarrassment of selling, right? Can be really embarrassing for somebody who has a hoarder house, who has a job, foreclosure, whatever it is, it's embarrassing. Right? So, you know, all these situations, all these situations, whether it be foreclosure, divorce, etc., they could be embarrassing situation. They, they don't want the public to know about. So having this kind of, back door way of selling is, is a is really an ease for them. Okay. They can sell all their junk left behind. Right. That's a big one. I, I, I remember selling and having a bunch of stuff to in like, what am I gonna do all this stuff? I don't I didn't want to do the work of actually trying to donate it, sell it, etc. but having the relief that they can just leave behind a professional, professional buyer is going to take care of transferring jobs without worrying if, if he's going to sell, you know, no more frustrations of a failed listing, not deal with the hassle of a 40 page contract for banks appraisers. Yeah. So this is just that, just five of them out of. But you could probably make a list of 20, 40, 50 of different ways that you benefit. And this is the start of it because this is copywriting one. This is turning your free to features and benefits. But this is the start of how I develop this for motivated sellers or for, for investors. And so we every message, every message is a, you have to think it's a little mini marketing message when you send them out, whether it be email or SMS. So whenever I create and I'm going to show you how to, couple examples. Whenever I create an SMS or investor, I'm looking into seeing what's the strongest benefit I can use. I just take 1 or 2. I don't flood them, I don't throw up on the page and have like all these, you know, features and benefits are just overwhelming. I take I pick 1 or 2, that are the best for the situation or the best for the for the sequence. So because cash doesn't really mean anything. And by the way, cash because of the whole SMS thing, I've, I've, we recently removed cash from all our follow up messages just to get some deliverability through. And that seems to be working, pretty well. 

Joe: That's really good. And go ahead and read those five points. 

Paul: Yeah. So safe from the embarrassment of selling can sell all their junk left behind. 

Joe: By the way, this is just this is important to understand because you're getting into sometimes people just don't care about the cash or that's not a good enough reason to get them to call you back. But when you can dive deeper into the feelings of what it's like when they can get their cash, which can save them from the embarrassment of selling, can sell all their junk that they left behind, they can transfer jobs without worrying. If you're going to be able to sell art and not, we're not having any more frustrations of another failed listing and not having to deal with the hassle and the headaches and the pain and the emotional brain damage of 40 page contracts, dealing with the banks and the appraisers and realtors and picky buyers going through all your house, through your house at all odd hours of the day and all of that stuff. Right? Like, I love how you're diving deeper into the that of the feelings involved with this, right? 

Paul: Right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Because, we, I think as and I was I've been in this boat two years. You assume that the other person knows what the cash is going to deliver, right. But, they don't cash. Cash? I mean, a whole number of things that people don't even realize it. And so we have to be there. Our job as marketers is to is to bring up those benefits and remind them of what we're going to deliver, or what the marketing is about, showing them the end results. Okay, so that is what marketing and sales is about. It's not just about the price and delivering the price and you become just a commodity about it, but it's about bringing these feelings up. And so let me I'm going to get back to that problem solution example. But a really if you want to like dive into how people feel about having a bad real estate situation, let's go to Reddit and just type, you know, or type in, in Google, like, failed listing, Reddit or any kind of situation foreclosure Reddit and then just read those. And so this I pulled I pulled this this an actual Reddit story. And so I actually take Reddit stories because I can't often it's not scalable for me as, as a, as a vendor in this industry to go and take and try to get every story that that an investor has about one of their sellers. Right? And then plug it in instead. What I do is I, I grabbed these stories regularly from Reddit. Any anywhere online doesn't it's not just Reddit, but and I plug them into emails and emails is a beautiful place where you can really elaborate, right? Smells you can't you? I can't bring this up in an SMS as SMS. I want to keep short and concise, but an email I can dive deep into the story because and story sell. That's the. And so because they sell because you're tapping into the emotion of things. So I'm going to read this this one story right here from somebody a real seller. He said someone I know stayed in the hotel for a week as their house had 20 viewings per date. And when they got home, their towels in one of the bathrooms was covered in. And you know what that was? Insert long brown emoji that I'm sure people know that's going to be so I couldn't do anything about it. Unable to determine which one of the viewers it could have been. People are animals, so if they if they can do that, imagine what else they could be doing. So and another acquaintance recently sold their house and found footprints in their bed and chips and scratches in the drywall. So this is the so the emotion there. So imagine yeah, a real motivation does not want to go through 20 viewings. Yeah. Just that thought alone just cringes at them. You know, they whatever situation they have, this is the emotion we're tapping into. So collect these stories, find out I've heard like, going back to my Mount Rushmore. I've heard these guys, Dan Kennedy, talk about the owner of the company routinely going into their sales calls and listening to them because tapping back into their market, knowing what people are going to say to deliver a better selling experience to them. Right. So you can know the emotion that that's behind why they're doing business. So jumping back into my slide problems show solution examples. So this is just some examples of how you can take, you know, simple feature or a simple benefit and plug it into an SMS. So you can say more than just hey, are you still interested in selling? So the second one here says banks don't generally give out loans for vacant houses. His selling go with the hassle free cash buyer like us. There'll be no banks or agents in the way call us today. So really simple, clean, clear marketing message. It's still saying, you know, if you're still selling, give us a call. But I'm bringing this is a vacant house. So I know so we have vacant house sequences.  

Joe: The first one and the third one, two. 

Paul: Yeah, yeah. So first one says, let me finish my thought. Right. So if I have a vacant house sequence, you know, I plug that person in, I now I can what the biggest issues with a vacant house is, is that a bank's generally not going to get a loan for it. So I am I'm giving that solution. Right. So the first one says, hey mister, Mister seller, this is a John at, we, we buy houses letting you know that you need to clean up, that you don't need to clean up your house with our cash offer. Let me know when you want to see our offer. So today, I don't just as a reminder, today I don't use cash a lot in our follow up messages just because the whole SMS ability, and most people are going to understand if you're if you're at this point, they understand you're giving out a cash offer because you already spoke to them. But yeah, I'm keeping things concise. I'm bringing up one benefit or one feature. In this case, the benefit is you don't have to clean up their house, right. It's no, it's not like a mind blowing idea. It's just that we tend to forget that these are this really simple things of why somebody my, my. To go with you rather than a traditional way of selling. So I'm bringing those up. Reiterating those. Okay. The third way, the third one right there says, hey, Mr. Seller, it's Shawn at we buy houses. I want to remind you that we're handling everything for you and paying for closing costs. Just text back. I'd like to lock in that price. So I'm not too sure what that that would probably fall under. Probably follow on somebody who hasn't been given an offer yet. So that's a so again a call to action there. So I know going back to that pipeline system, I know that if they're having locked in the if they haven't given an offer yet, that's my next my next call to action. You know text back so we can so we can give you an offer. I that's good. Yeah. So that that's on that's kind of I kind of rushed through that. But that's the idea of figuring out what to say. Besides are you still interested this really diving into 1 or 2 benefits. And that's something I do like for there's some print shops you saw on that, on that list of people I worked with. So one of them has a sequence of greeting letters. And those greeting letters, we can only fit maybe 56 words into these screen letters. So all we do is for the seven card sequence. We don't just we don't just throw up on the page, all these all these ways that are what a cash offer is going to bring. We take 6 or 7 of the top reasons why something's going to sell today. In in the smart of motivated seller is going to sell this market. And that would be our one message, not one postcard. Right. So if it's, two years ago, cash 2 or 3 years ago, cash offer wasn't something that was really, it was more of a commodity 2 or 3 years ago because everybody was giving out cash offers on the MLS. It was. So if you say you're going to give a cash offer, wasn't really it didn't nobody care. So we switched, we shifted and said one of the messages would say, no, no realtor will buy your house, you know, realtor, commission. Right. That brought up response because, hey, it's now the message is not about the cash offer. Now it's about here. Here's how the here's a different way. Is it your new unique way that that you can sell your house? So what I'm getting at is, is the market's change. The markets change. And you do want to, you know, tie in what is the strongest reason why somebody is going to sell to you. So today with when interest dropped the main days on market were stretching out. That's probably what's the most, the most concerning, reason a problem that people are having right now. 

Joe: I love this concept of having a story bank. And this is something that I've been trying to do my own personal business. When I come across a story with a seller, with a customer, with a buyer, just any kind of story that you can tell because stories sell, right? And this is why we're doing this. 

Paul: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So yeah. Before I dive into the next principle, which is omnichannel, because I think that's where we left off, I was going to dive into the next principle. Let's unravel this whole story thing because there's different ways to tell a story. So in text messaging I wouldn't put this in right. I think I might have talked about it. Text messages I keep it concise, short brief bites. But it's still a story you tell when you're in your when you're texting somebody. Right. So what I mean is, is you're telling the story of, of how you benefit. Right? Every text message I send I send out might leverage a pain point, might leverage a benefit or feature. And so you're still a story being told, but like a actual story. Let me show you this actual this actual, a Reddit story right inside one of my emails. I pulled it up. So this is, so in our business, in online drip, we actually have multiple variations of lot of different messages because that's a huge thing going forth. I'm kind of going on a tangent here, but when it comes to deliverability and making sure your email is in, your text messaging is getting through. Going for 2024 and beyond, carriers and ISPs, email service platforms like, like, Gmail, they're, they're looking for actually rather they're not looking for the people who are, are using templates. So if they if they're getting multiple people sending the same like canned message, that's a red flag for them and they want that. So, so going forth I'm making sure that there's different variations of things. It's not we're just plugging in a template that somebody else gets as well. So yeah, on this one let me break this down. So subject line buyer uses house as a toilet during open house. So I'm taking that that pain point of an open house. Right. As somebody who's a motivated seller does not go through an open house, right? Is that that is a traditional mode of selling, is going through an open house. And so, subject line I'm always there's a, there's a copy 101 concept comes from some, some old school guys that saw my Mount Rushmore slide. Eugene Schwartz, I think Joe Sugarman talked about this as well as at the point of a headline is just to get them to read the next line. The point of that line is to get them to read the next line and so forth and so forth. So subject line. I just want them to get to, to open it now, now here's, here's something like there's a, here's a don't do, don't trick people into opening a subject line that raises your spam rate. That gets people pissed off. So a good way to, to trick people is putting that free reply button. I don't know if people can't see this, but you've seen the subject lines and a lot of people use them is where they, use E to trick people into thinking this is the actual reply to a previous message. I don't use that in any of my marketing. I know that that is you know what's use but 10,000 foot view the bigger scope of things. I am trying to build a better relationship with people. Not crumble relationships so not crumble an existing relationship. So anyway, my point of this is to get it open, but in an honest way. So I start off in most of my emails with. It's like a little reason why they're seeing this. Not I don't do this in every email I investors. I do it because we're not emailing weekly. We're not emailing biweekly. Sometimes this might come along 60 days out. And so they haven't gotten an email from us for a while or from this investor, I should say. So I'm letting you know, hey, this is a complimentary newsletter from now website here. And I put the website here because I want them, you know, maybe, maybe it'll click and get another touch. I talked about multiple touches while I'm trying to get another touch out of this. And if the investor is it has some so advanced has a pixel set up, he or she can do some retargeting as well with that. So anyway, going on with the email says here, hey there, Mr. Seller. Whenever, whenever you decide to sell, if you do, I want to alert you about the dangers of having buyers go through your house and how to prevent this little incident. And I put little in a quotation from happening after I went from being a. This should be from a new manufacturer worker. I know that sounds a little odd, but to jumping feet first into real estate, I learned that lots of viewings and showings are good thing for getting a house sold. That bad part of it is lots of people, complete strangers, trample through your house. This little doozy of a story explains it all. I quote it straight from Reddit, and I go and I paste that story right into it, and I source it out to read it. And then I go on saying, to prevent this from happening, do the following steps. Put up exterior cameras. Keep your viewings to a minimum, don't put any viewings back to back night and so on and on. I go on with this email giving them like actual like this is how you do it. Then here's another option. I say you could just sell to us. It's just one appointment and you can consider house. So no agent fees, no closing costs, no clean up, no open houses, no repairs, etc. if you're interested in and chatting about your cash offer again, give us a call. So with this one I'm leveraging the pain that we talked about that emotion. I'm talking about exactly what's going to go through a traditional sale. And then if they the other option is just selling with us. So and they avoid all that. So that's a little that's one of the emails we have. I mean we have hundreds of emails that we, that, that go into our bank and different variations of, but that that's the, that's the gist of, of putting a story into an email. 

Joe: I love that. 

Paul: Yeah. So let me move on to the next like principle here that it's, it's a very last principle to tying all this. And so we talked about having your word bank you having your story bank. always collecting as if you know, you're in the business as a marketer. Now, it's not just you're an investor. And so I heard this from Dan Kennedy. A lot of investors know who Dan Kennedy is, but he tries to make it a habit, or at least his with his clients, make it a habit for them to regularly tune in to calls with leads, customers and clients. Because as owners, we tend to be removed from that. And we forget their pain points, forget what they go through and just be in tune with who you're dealing with. That is collecting your, your, your, your word bank or your story bank. That's a good way to keep building ended up and keep that updated. So going into the this omni omnichannel concept, that SMS having a drip sequence that's just SMS in 2024. And honestly it's just not going to work. Well this because now that we have to be more with SMS, should be more conscious about making sure that people are being opted in. Now, making sure that you're leaving a, instructions to, to opt out. More people are going to opt out. So you don't want to eliminate all community, all communication from them by just having one, automation, which is that SMS and said, I want to I want to come in from everywhere. I want to come in from multiple angles because there are email readers, there are people who, who are social media folks, people or tech spokespeople or direct mail folks. I want to I want to capture all those different people, respond different ways, and it adds impact and adds credibility and trust. So here's an example of one. Let me explain this. I have I've had a couple clients who don't want our emails. They say, well, you know, you know, they want to reduce the price. And they say, let's just do text messages because we don't get a lot of responses from emails. I think that's a. Really? That's a really narrow way of thinking. 

Joe: Huge mistake. Yeah. 

Paul: Huge mistake. Because just because they don't respond doesn't mean that they don't see they don't see you and they don't they don't apply like they don't create some kind of emotion from seeing a different ad. Its marketing is never isolated. It's not just one channel and that's it. You know, there's a to saying that, you know, that a rising tide lifts all boats. And if you can, if you can add more, quality channels into your marketing, it just lifts everything. So here's an example of a client who closed a deal but within a drip sequence. And what I'm getting out with this one, I'm circling all right here that the seller texts back and said, hey, hey, Jessica, this is oh, I'm sorry. He text and said, hey, Jessica, this is West from revival. Say, got your email about setting up a call I can call any time. What works for you? I so I don't have the right slide or the right a screenshot here to scroll up and see the dashboard and seeing her replies. But she she's been responding from email with the tax as well. So meaning she's seeing the emails. The activity shows her seeing the emails but then responding so with a text. So it's proved to me that she's actually seeing the emails. It just says and it just because she doesn't respond doesn't mean it doesn't have an impact on the marketing. So here's my arsenal. Like I call the arsenal of everything that we use in our system. We plug in direct mail and direct mail, and I show you one of my pieces, that we use for follow up tasks to call. Of course, it's obvious tasks are personal. Moon video I think this is hugely understaffed. It's so easy to use, so easy to do. So if you're following up with a lead, lead hasn't responded. And, and, you get a task that says leave a personal video, you're out. You're out on the go. This is the easiest way to do it. You're on the go. You get this task to send a video to Mr. Seller, and that alone video app is so easy. You just click the button, record it in a sends it off for you. I do this with my buyers. 

Joe: Wait from your phone? 

Paul: Yes. 

Joe: I used to use a tool called I have the Loom app on my phone. Can you see that? Maybe not. I can loom myself right now. Hey, this Joe. Hey, Mr. Seller, why haven't you sold your house yet? I click done and boom. There you go. Right? I can click copy, link, email and message or more. And so it just. Yeah, I used to use a tool called Bonjouro. Did you ever hear of that tool. It's similar to Bom Bom. And it's pretty cool because it has an app. You can just record videos and send it to people. But I love this and I've never thought about using loom for sellers and buyers. 

Paul: I mean, so I was doing this, but I mean, I don't think the app was available then. So I was doing it on desktop, right? So I wasn't doing it on the, on the go on a mobile phone. But you get a buyer. I'm trying. This is why I used to do it, but I'm trying to create impact. Okay? I like using that word impact because, you know, everyone's just plugging away with the same kind of system that everybody else uses the same media. It's very mediocre. It just copy and paste what everybody else is doing. Rather what I did with land. Maybe people are doing it now, but if I, if I get a land buyer because I was that was important to me because I can be another, another buyer of another lock that I had, I would send them a video and then I would also, print out, get it sent to I think it's easy canvas or something like that, easy prints or something like that. They I get a picture of the lot they bought, get it in a canvas and then sent their way. Right. Just trying to create that impact. And so with this creating an impact just goes. It's so easy to do. I think loom costs like 20 bucks a month. I mean, you might not even need the that $20 a month subscription to do this, but so easy to add into your system, your way of doing things, to add just a little bit more impact into your into your market. So SMBs obviously were doing that website. You know, I, I every once I get some clients that don't have a website, I always tell them, just set up your website real quick, so that we can drive traffic, some traffic to it. Right. At least this is a this is a traffic source in a way. So let's try some traffic to it. Create that extra touch articles. We plug that in and reviews. If you've got reviews you got to use them. We plug them in to our emails. So we'll plug those. So the best reviews that they have I wouldn't recommend making up for it. Video. I yeah don't make up reviews. Don't use somebody else's. You know, just do your best into creating what's called a actually, I don't know if you've heard of but yeah, Ken McCarthy, he's it used an candys internet marketing guy, Joe, but he's talked about making your business into a testimonial acquisition business. So creating process to really to really start, dripping in these reviews and testimonials because you can use them, use them all day long in your in your marketing. Okay. So this is one of my letters AB about this is a postcard. I have about 30 or 40, different direct mail pieces within all of my, my pipeline as we talked about. And, my goal of this mail piece. So, so to get some context of when why this goes out. This goes out when somebody has filled out a form and they just haven't, you know, if somebody calls on a form that's a seller that, you know, usually those are a little bit more motivated than the others. So they fill out a form and they then take the next step or they haven't responded to us. So this probably goes out like the 30th day after filling out the form. And it it's basically my goal for this one. Going back to that copy concept, first goal is to get them to read it. Second goal is to read the next line. I'm just trying to get them to see it and read it right, because then I can go into the copy of hey, we talked. Just never took the next step, you know? 

Joe: So for the people listening on the podcast, it's a picture of a of a postcard of a dog and it says, what in the world happened? And so go ahead and just read it real quick.  

Paul: Yeah so here it's a dog with the question mark kind of with that, you know, like you heard a strange noise and, and this is when the world happened. The big headline on the top. Mister John, did we mess up somewhere? You filled out our form at our website. We buy houses, but you never took the next step, which was to get into. Contact me to get your cash offer to buy your property. We're still buying houses in your area. We'd love to send you no obligation offer to buy yours. It's no cost, no hassle. It's bank free. At least try offer only. Just collect a few more details. Just takes one point to get your offer. I know you already fill out the form, so I'm re, reiterating this. They fill out the form. I want to make sure they understand this. So we've already spoke. I know you already fill filled out our form, fill out the form, but there are details in a form just can't give us to give you an accurate price. And then the opposite side is more of a call to action shows the number and all that. So the next card. So I want to show you an example of a different a different angle of a direct mail piece. This is a greeting card. So context of this one is they told you, hey, we're going to just fix the house ourselves, okay? You gave them the offer. They think, you know what, I'm just going to fix it and probably get more money for it. We all know that most of them are going to do that. So I want to I want to add impact here. So I send them a thank you card a greeting card. It's actually a greeting card that cost like this, the ones that fold or a nice quality. They call it like two bucks to send out. And it's actually just thanking them and in at least for at least trying us and talking with us. Right. So I love doing this because I can attribute my personal income today to doing follow up mail, like following up with different clients, following up with people who are going to be, you know, freelance clients of mine, this that has a lot more impact for myself. And people do it with me and for the people I connect with. So, I as much as possible implement the whole the whole thank you greeting card. You does some of these sequences because I just want to add that impact. And they finally decide to sell. Okay. And I want to iterate direct mail into this okay. Because it's under tapped medium that costs so little to do. So just for an example of note, if anybody can't see this slide, it says up top direct mail too expensive with a question mark. And it's expensive because, so for example, if you get a 100 leads per month like that, you're paying for 100 new leads per month. And let's just say it costs you 300, $300 per lead just for a number, say so. That's $30,000 a you're paying every single month for new leads. I know that might be a lot, but just for example, say people, pay per click and paid people can be expensive. So you're paying, $30,000 for fresh new leads every single month. Now, if you if you plug in direct mail to some of those leads for following up, you're probably only going to send to that 30% of those leads. You're probably sent a mailer. And so if you send a 30% or so, 30% of them are going to be tire kickers. 30% of these leads will be unemployment now. And the other 30 are people on the fence who just really haven't responded yet. So if I email those 30% and I spend about $2 for that 30, I'm spending $60 per month to follow up with these, with these guys. That is such a small fee compared to your $30,000 acquisition cost. And, a lot of people talk about this about how not just investors, but business owners in general, they spent a lot on lead generation, which is important. You have to spend think of money as time and resources, not just not just dollars. You're spending a lot on acquiring that lead, but then you spend so little resources, money or time into then following up and you if you think about if you break it down with mail, mail so cheap to send compared to actually buying new leads. Right. So yeah, nobody can see that. Nobody. But some people might not see the slide up that that makes sense, Joe. 

Joe: I was going to say this real quick. Direct mail follow up is so important and why more people don't do it? I have no idea. Because, yeah, maybe it does cost money, but you're wasting money. You're losing money by not doing follow up with direct mail. And the reason why I like doing follow up and direct mail is. Emails can get lost and spam text messages can get blocked. When you try calling, you know people are more likely to send the call to voicemail than actually answer the call because it comes from an unrecognized number, or your caller ID might show up as spam. But with direct mail, you look at the open rates of direct mail 7,585%. They may open it over the circular file, the trash can, but they're going to open it. And I see this happen over and over and over again. May I this is a fourth offer I've gotten from you, Joe. This is the fifth letter I got from this guy. He must really want my property. Nobody else is sending follow up like that. It happens all the time. 

Paul: Yeah. And it's. And like I said, I. It's a lot cheaper than acquiring a new brand. I'm not saying don't stop here lead generation, but I am saying just add a few. It's pennies. It really is pennies. I mean, I have it on I circled right here 0.2% of your acquisition costs like that, $60. So it's pennies compared to in relative terms to acquiring an elite. So, yeah, send me a follow up again. It's all in comes you created this universe is branding universe where they see nothing but you. So. So, what all looks like in the 10,000 foot view of what we set up for, for my for my system is 24 sequences, 40 different direct mail pieces, which you saw a couple of them, 163 tasks. And these tasks they have, they count they I make sure that we have call scripts or voicemail scripts, with it as well, because one thing I want to remove from these follow up is thinking too much or thinking trying to figure out what to say. Now you there is thinking of all right. I always tell my clients is make sure you take lots of notes the clients and until you're following up with them and you can see on the dashboard in their notes, you can see, hey, they have they have four kids, they homeschool. Whatever it is, whatever information you can add into your follow up, please do. That's just going to add a lot more impact to your follow up to your voicemail, your call, instructions for home videos, hang up tactics, which I do, which is the kind of like, got, like, I use this much later down the road. It's like a lead hasn't responded in like six months. I might do I call a hang up tactic where you call them. If they don't answer, you go to voicemail. And as you're leaving your voicemail, it's you're leaving the a cliffhanger, like, hey, I'm. But I need to tell you something about my, buy your property and then hang up. Yeah, I don't like using those a lot. It's kind of a dirty trick. But if they've been in my system for four, six, eight months with no response, I'm going to try to pull everything I can. Right? Three prong task means that, like, every time I send a task that has to do with call, I don't just say call lead like that, I don't leave it for I want to make sure that whoever, whoever's using this, whether it be your lead manager, acquisition manager, you, the owner, want to make sure that you understand exactly what to do. It's a system, right? So, you know, I want to remove feelings through everything so that so you don't skip out on part. So what I mean by three prong task. Here is the task. The notification is going to go out. It's going to tell you to call. If they don't call here's the voicemail script or framework to work off of. In every voicemail script I have has that call feature benefit have it has 1 or 2 feature benefit within the script right. Let it reminding them here let me pull in. Let me pull an example here real quick Joe. So yeah I'm not vague here. So this is an actual client document of mine. So whenever somebody, works with us, we give them these Google docs with 101 hundred steps, and then we plug them into a CRM for them. So let me find a task and what that might, might look like here. This one's a better example. This probate one because this one's new this one is more recent okay. Here's the here's that that win back tactic okay. So it says here it's a task that goes out on day 57. Says hey call lead with a win back tactic. Then text call. If no answer, leave a voice message. But hang up in the middle saying, hey Mr. Seller, I've got something important to tell you about your property in in, in. And then you, you list off whatever the address is and then hang up. Then you text some right afterwards. Hey, Mr. Seller, I tried calling, leaving a voicemail, but the call drop. Can you call me back? It's regarding your property now. Again, I don't like using these dirty tech that much that often. Don't abuse this. Right? Don't make it into a gimmick. But this one right here is probably right. It's 57 days now. That might not seem like it's a whole lot, but at this point, in Oklahoma, they're coming up to a point where the average probate deal or probate, process closes about 60, 70 days. So I'm trying to win them back before they actually go with somebody else. So that's the point of this tactic right here. So that's a three part that's a three prong tactic. It's call lead. That's number one. That's the first touch. number two leave that voicemail. And number three text them back I this is an auto message I don't I tell people I tell people don't leave. This is a, I don't do this as a. Is an auto message because I want you to time. I want you right after you're done leaving that voicemail. You text him right after. And here's exactly what the text. Right. So that's my whole strategy behind this. Now we're getting three touches out of this right. Call notification voicemail notification then a no text. And so yeah that's an example of that task there. 

Joe: That's good. 

Paul: So going back to the slideshow here I've got 150 different emails seven articles reviews and 300 plus text message. So on. So going back to when that slide that talked about how, people say trips don't work and it's it has a lot to do with their they don't have a they're not thinking big enough of their trips. They're just thinking this little tiny bucket maybe has five different text messages that go out or seven because they've heard that's what it takes is on average seven. And then that's it. Then mine is loaded with different type diff, different angles, all kinds of different messages, all kinds of different attempts. So that yeah, that's the whole big picture of it. This one right here I want to show you this one, this, this, client, the text, or send me a slack saying that it took over 50 touches over one year to land 25 K paid it, as we said, right here in the bottom. So again, creating. Yeah. Re reiterating how many touches it takes to give it give some context in this one he, he put the client or the seller I should say he put the seller into the appointment missed trip any, any. And it took 12 calls and voicemails, 13 text messages. And six months later he responded, so anyway, that's some context of how long it takes for these things, but and yeah, I've got other I've got other people talking about why they work. So anyway, Joe, do you have any questions about all that? 

Joe: Yeah. Remember guys, we gave you that link. I think I still have it here. Joe mccall.com/drip, Joe McCall dot com slash drip. And if you want more information from Paul you can contact him at Paul at REI Omni drip.com or call him text at 9519018208. If you want some help from him doing all those follow up stuff for you. But I got a question in terms of software that's out there, what are some tools you recommend to people to if they're looking to buy a CRM or they already have one? Are there good tools out there? It's okay to namedrop or give your opinion on tools you like or don't like, but what are some of the tools that you like to use for this kind of automated follow up? 

Paul: Yeah, definitely. Definitely CRM is needed. I think it makes it just a job easier, but you can go about trying to Frankenstein different things together, getting Klaviyo as the your email mark and your SMS or using, Twilio and all that and try to Frankenstein things together. That works. But if you're not tech savvy, it's not going to work. Or just use this CRM in the box. So, Freedom Soft, you talked about that, Joe. Works well, REI black book works well, we work with black book as well. And that's reviews my favorites. That's why I usually recommend to people if they just don't know where to start. But all those it's important. So here's, here's what you're looking for. If you're if drip sequences are important for you automations important view. What you need to look out for with a CRM is that one. Obviously they send auto texts, but two, that the frequencies are diverse. Meaning like there's there is some CRM that they they're limited in how often you can send. So I've been in some that stop at seven text messages and that's it. I've been in some that you can't send text messages, you can't send more than one step in one day. So only one step can go out every single day. That's problematic for me because let me show you, I'm going to show you my most aggressive sequence here. In my most aggressive sequence, I internally our team calls a digit stopper. But here's an example of it. So the format's kind of funny. This is our internal doc here. And on the white shows this up here. But it has about 7 or 8 steps in one day. So this is for those who a seller would fills out a form okay. And my intention is to get them from shopping out of shopping around us. Hence why I call it. Did you stopper on stop? Try to stop them from shopping around and get them into our pipeline. And so our next quote gate, if you remember that that slide of building our pipeline, I'm trying to get them to the next gate, which is, book, book an appointment. So I've got here the first, first part is it's people can see it says, hey there, John, my name is, lead manager with we buy houses where they're local home buyers in, and Chino. You might have filled out the cash form from our online partners. They notify it. They notify us that you're looking to sell a question mark. Trying to get that response. Okay, if still no response, forget this. That question. Your thing that you have there. If still no response, I might say this one. That's why the formatting is all wrong. SMS I make or sends it SMS says I'm making sure I'm talking to the right person. He's still looking for a cash offer to sell your. Okay, I don't really put a typo there because then one minute later there's a correction that goes out that goes out with, again, this formatting is all screwed up because this is our internal page, but it's got to be a correction text message with, you know, the star. And then house spelled right. Because I'm trying to make this personal. Like we're actually dumbing this right then and their email goes out one minute later, Jack nail goes out. Ten minutes later, another text message. Also, if you haven't done so, you can, book a cash offer appointment with us right here. And I plug in their Calendly thing. So this is another call to action. So, you know, having understand that, you know, the call to action, you have multiple tools you can use, right? So you have you have the call to action of, hey, Texas back, call us back. And then you also have or go to a link, right. Go to check out our home page, check out our about page, check out reviews. Or you also have, book a call with us right here. And then you have a counter link. They can book it right then and there. So I, we, we implement this as much as possible. Getting them isn't just a different way to respond if they're more comfortable just getting on getting on your calendar. So anyway this is an example of like how heavy how heavy this is. And I'm kind of scrolling through oh there's my there's that typo message okay. So it goes on the second day. And immediately follows that, that, that typo that I put in there. So anyway, after ten so after the it looks like nine steps and nine steps I'm sending out. Or in the first day I'm sitting on nine steps, the CRM tying this back into the CRM, it's important to have the CRM that allows for multiple steps in one day. Or else you just you're just limited to one. I'll have, for example, I'll have, an email go out a text message, go out a task, go out. All those three kind of like kind of like a three prong type of attack, I guess you can say, cheesy, but I'm. I'm trying to catch them in three different ways. They communicate. Right? They can communicate via SMS, email or just call them back. So, anyway, so important to make sure you CRM does that. Make sure you make sure they have the good time delays. They allow for hundreds of messages. They allow for, direct mail I give you. Yeah. If you want to use direct mail as a follow up as, like a one off mailing piece, it's important they have that plugged in as well. I believe Freedom Soft has that. It's called it's called a webhook. So if they have a if you can if you can paste in a webhook from your vendor friend Genie, there's a few others, but I know the one I know of is a genie. Then your business you can use follow up for that. And tasks that I believe are not. There's some serums that don't even have tasks. They I don't know why they didn't think of adding task notifications, but yeah, making sure has that as well. 

Joe: So what do you guys do then for a customer who says, man, I just want you to help with this. I want you to implement this for me. What do you guys do. 

Paul: When somebody orders? And if it was like, we wonder about the price, just know that it is the price. You know, once you get a deal, pays one deal, pays for it to two times over. And so they'll come in and they're going to fill out a form. That form is going to give us like our profile. Because, you know, I'm not selling templates. We're not doing templates because that's going to hurt deliverability and it's just too generic. So instead I want to know what the investor does. As far as how he before his business meaning is he a face to face guy, does he do face to face appointments. Does he get do virtual hundred percent? Is he local? Is he a mix of face to face phone? Is a national? Is he by with tennis in the house? Is he, what's the average price in their in their area? Things like that. These are my neat little things that that we can really leverage and turn into a more custom based, communication system for them. So once they fill that out, we put everything together and everything, all these sequences together, we go through, we review and make sure everything's good, and then we plug the plug it into, their CRM for them. Once that's all done, we give them support. Afterwards, we update, we keep updating it for them. Whenever there is updates to be needed, we watch the deliverability of SMS and email. That's important because, I think a lot of it it's not, I mean, serums are doing the best they can to deliver good, good experience, but a lot of them don't understand golden deliverability of things. And that's important. So maybe we could talk about that because it's February right now and, and email has, has kind of dropped off, meaning, Gmail has announced that they're only going to be sending emails where their domain is authenticated. So a lot of you don't know that is what that is. They're going to be running around because emails are being delivered. But yeah. So we're watching deliverability. Yeah. As, as much as we control and yeah, that's what we do in a nutshell. 

Joe: All right. Good. So if people want more information again go to Joe mccall.com/drip. And that will get into to a page on how you can work with Paul. Yeah. And Paul. Yeah. Go ahead. 

Paul: They'll be in that page. I'm just it's just we're giving out a bunch of information. We're giving out that list of sequence. Sequences there. We're going to have samples for you to work off of if you want to build your own. And we're got a guide as well, a little one pager guide to help you, develop your if you want to or you can just call me. 

Joe: I love it. Thank you so much, Paul. Appreciate you guys for listening in. And again go to John mccall.com/drip I think I got the text the image right there. There we go Joe mccall.com/drip. We'll see you guys later. Thank you Paul. 

Paul: All right. Thank you. 

Joe: Bye bye everybody. 

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