Joe: What's going on. Welcome, this is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. Glad you're here. Got a great episode today. By the way, you like my new background. If you're watching this on YouTube or Facebook or whatever, I'm super proud of this. Cost me $5 at Fiverr.com. But anyway, glad you're here. We're going to be talking about all things land investing. My favorite topic right now and this is a lady, Alicia Jarrett, who runs a company out of Australia. Alicia, I met her again. We've met before, but I was talking to her at a mastermind recently. She's her business has exploded. It's taking off and she's helping a lot of land investors succeed in their land investing ventures. And so you're going to be hearing from Alicia on what's working and what's not from other people out there who are doing the stuff. She has the advantage of looking at this business from a 30,000 foot view elevation. Right. And one of the things I'm really curious about talking to her is asking her like, you know, it used to be three or four or five years ago, you get tremendous response rates on direct mail. Now it seems like it's not doing as well. But I don't know. We're still doing a lot of deals. So like, what are you seeing that's working well today? If you like to listen in, this is the right place to be. So first things first here. I want to ask you guys if you are not familiar with the land flipping stuff, if it's new to you and you're like, oh, what is this that I don't understand? How is flipping vacant land different? Better than houses? I've got a free kit that I put together, Simple Land Kit.com where I'm going to give you a ton of free stuff for free. And pretty soon we are going to be charging for this. I've been talking about that for a few months, but we're getting close to launching this as a free I mean, as a paid thing. But for right now, you can get my direct mail swipe file, you get my seller scripts, my realtor scripts, some of my contracts, a calculator software that I use to help analyze deals and a bunch of other things that I forget at simple land kit dot com, my contracts. Did I say that? And checklists, scripts, software. It's all free. Simple land kit dot com. When you go there, it's going to ask you to opt in. After you opt in, you're going to get an invitation to watch a class that I did where I'm going to teach you how to actually use the stuff that's in here. Okay. The other thing, too, is if you're listening to me right now in a podcasting world, hello, I'm glad you're here. I've been doing this podcast since 2011. Now, sometimes what I do is I do videos on YouTube. Not that I've forgotten you guys, my podcast audience. I love you guys, right? I've been doing a lot of podcasts lately from my car in my from my phone, in my car, and I call them REI in Your Car podcast. So those of you listening to the audio right now, check out my YouTube channel because there's a lot of videos I put out on YouTube that aren't necessarily I can't do as podcast because there's I'm showing things, right? And also you too, on YouTube that are watching this. Go check out my audio podcast. It's Real Estate Investing Mastery is the name of the podcast, but on there you're going to hear things where I'm talking about, for example, we just did a deal and I was talking about it while I was driving on my in my car. I also did a coaching call with a student and I did a podcast audio only podcast on that. So wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple, Spotify and anybody else listen to podcasts anywhere else, I use a pocket, an app called Pocket casts, but just do a search for Joe McCall or Real Estate Investing Mastery to find the podcast there, cool. And then on the YouTube channel that's growing like by leaps and bounds, I'm starting to do a lot more content for YouTube. So anyway, if you depended, if you want to listen or if you want to watch, I'm just glad you're here. I really am. And don't forget again, this kit Simple Land Kit dot com. Check it out and get your hands on it. It's free and it pretty soon won't be all right. All right. Thank you, guys. All right. Alicia, How are you?
Alicia: Joe, it's so good to see you. I'm really well, thank you. How are you doing?
Joe: Good. Excellent. You're. You don't have an American accent. You're obviously from Australia, but you're in Phoenix right now for a few weeks, right?
Alicia: I am. In fact, you just mentioned before in the intro that we saw each other recently at a mastermind event. And so this is trip number three to the states this year. So far, officially, I've spent more than a third of my year in the US and we're about to move here next year. Super excited about what's to come. Here we are. We've been doing business in the US now for eight years and it's funny when you just said before that your podcast has been going since 2011. First of all, congratulations. That is huge because you started podcasting before podcasting was really a thing.
Joe: Well, maybe, but I remember thinking at the time when I started it, Oh man, I missed the boat. Right? I missed the wave. It's a it's not going to be as popular as it was before, but I love doing it. It's fun.
Alicia: I think you got the wave, but just the right time. And I was on one of your podcasts, I think it was about two or three years ago now. And I had a great conversation with you then. So then when I saw you at the mastermind, we're like, Oh my goodness, because there's so many people being the fact that I'm in Australia most of the time, There's so many people that I essentially have connected with but have never met in person. So it's always great to meet people face to face and check in.
Joe: I love masterminds for that reason. Just to network with people that are, you know, competitors, quote unquote, even. Right. Like, there are a lot of other land guys there and gals that were they were just feeding off of each other and helping each other grow. Where in the U.S. are you moving to?
Alicia: Oh, that's the million dollar question. I'm thinking it's going to be San Diego. We actually love Florida. And I was thinking St Petersburg, Florida. But the last trip that we had to get back to Australia from Florida was 36 hours in total. That was like a long trip, right? That's a really long trip. Whereas when it's specific to Pacific Coast, we jump on a plane to L.A. and be home in 14 hours. So it's pretty easy to get back. So I think it's going to be San Diego at this stage. But let's say that's what I did too. I've been to San Diego a few times. I know a few people there. I love the weather. It's got great weather, but not the humidity that Florida has better for us women when it comes.
Joe: It's very similar to yeah, it's very similar to a lot of parts of Australia, I'm sure.
Alicia: Yes, it actually.
Joe: Yeah, I was raised in San Diego, I was born in L.A., raised in San Diego and very familiar with that area. But anyway, you have a company called Supercharged Offers. Talk about what you guys do real quick there.
Alicia: We do. We do. So before I jump into Supercharged Offers, it's important for people to know the back story about why we started Supercharged Offers because we're old. So I say way my business partner, Matt and I, we're also land investors and we started Supercharged Offers Joe about four and a half years ago, somewhere around there. And we started it because we were noticing in our own business that we had like five different companies that we had to go to help us with our business. So we had a data company, a mailing company, someone that was managing our Facebook page, another one that was managing ads for us, a cold calling company. It was just it was all over the place. And we just noticed in our in business the fact that we both come from corporate backgrounds and managing things a lot more efficiently. We just thought, surely there's going to be a company out there that all five of these are in one. We couldn't find one, so we started our own.
Joe: What were the five things?
Alicia: The five things that we had with. So we had to go to one place for our data, another place for our direct mail, another place for a digital marketing. So our websites, we had a different person that was running ads for us on Google and we had a different company that was doing cold calling for five.
Joe: It's a lot.
Alicia: So we've, that is a lot. And what we also noticed though is that was creating some inefficiencies in our business because if one of those five wasn't working properly or we weren't on top of things, we would go a month or two without mailing. We would miss opportunities in cycles and our business just felt like it was on this roller coaster. Whereas now that we have implemented supercharged offers, which we use for our own stuff, it's all about how we help real estate investors to be more consistent, to have everything in the one place that works together and to have one team that they have to liaise with and not a whole bunch of different businesses. And to have like a functional marketing team that can help them out with all the aspects of running a land business. Because as you and I know, Joe, people make money when they're on the phone with sellers and buyers doing deal, that's where you make money. But all this other stuff that people need to do in their businesses, they can outsource to us and we can do it for them, which is really cool. So we love working with land people because that's where we've really dominated the space and we know what works.
Joe: Yeah, that's really good because. Well, are you mainly helping people in land? Are you also helping people with houses or both?
Alicia: We're doing all of it, but I would just say out of natural attraction, because I mean, a lot of the land groups and land space, about 80% of our customers are land. But we have people that do single fam, small multifamily RV parks and also got a couple of other customers doing self-storage. So we have the data and the processes in the system to be able to do acquisitions, marketing to any kind of real estate investor.
Joe: Okay. But you prefer what you're really good at. Your sweet spot is vacant land. Yeah, love vacant land. Okay, So how many clients are you working with right now? Approximately round numbers, if you don't mind.
Alicia: Yeah, we've got just over 220 customers in nine countries that are all doing deals in the U.S. We tend to also attract a lot of people from overseas because I guess they look at me and go, Well, they're doing land from Australia. So we've got customers all across the Europe, Asia that are all doing big business in the U.S. and because of that connection where we're starting to really launch that out a little bit as well, which for me is super exciting because that that boundary that people have in their heads, which is, no, I couldn't possibly do land in another state. Well, there's people doing this from the other side of the world. So, yes, you can do land anywhere.
Joe: A guy I just interviewed, a guy who's done 300 deals from Germany.
Alicia: So is that Robin? Yeah. So Robin's and really close friend of mine. I know Robin, and he's like, Really? Well, they are awesome. He's actually a customer of ours. So yeah, we helped him set up his business from Germany.
Joe: All right, so mastermind.
Alicia: So we're seeing him in person, too.
Joe: One of the things I was thinking about was you were talking like, okay, you've got 200 and something competitors that are you're doing marketing for. And one of the things that I really wanted to spend some time talking about is it seems like you hear these investors complaining about how much more competitive land investing is getting, which, by the way, I've been hearing that complaint from house investors and land investors since I got started in 2006. Yeah, I remember you're in Phoenix right now, and I remember people because I was learning how to do wholesaling houses from people that were teaching it in Phoenix back then. And I had a friend who was getting involved and I remember, sorry, I remember hearing from these people complaining about how competitive it was back in 2006, and the joke was you couldn't walk down Phoenix without tripping over bandit signs because there was just so many wholesalers going out there and doing deals. And of course, the market crashed, right? The market crashed. And you would think, well, okay, people would stop complaining about competition because there are no everybody is out of the business. No. And there were still a lot of wholesalers doing deals. They weren't complaining about finding sellers. They were complaining about finding buyers.
Alicia: People will complain about anything won't they Joe.
Joe: Yeah, for sure.
Alicia: But let's dive into that because I think there's a myth that this fact element here, would you agree.
Joe: There say it again.
Alicia: A myth versus fact element.
Joe: Oh yeah. Yeah. Talk about that.
Alicia: The myth is the land is too competitive. Well, compared to what would be the question, I'd ask people. Because if you're in the single family space, it is like still five, six times more competitive than the vacant land space. Vacant land is nowhere near as saturated yet. Single fam Yeah, it's saturated in some areas. It's vacant land starting to get competitive. Yes, it is. But is there also a huge amount of people dropping off? Yes, there is. And I know that and you see this in the groups, too. You get people that they sign up to some training, so some education. They might do one or two mailers and because they don't get a deal, they drop off because they call this doesn't work.
Joe: Which is, you know, if I were to guess Alicia, I would guess that 75, 85% of people quit after the first couple of months.
Alicia: Yeah, but here's the reality. It's a myth versus fact. The fact is it does take a good six months of ramp up time to get a vacant land business going. Now, month one you're in set up mode, month 2 to 3 you're starting marketing and you've got to keep that marketing going. Months four and five is starting to get properties under contract, but you're probably not going to sell those in two months, six or seven, to start to recycle that money back in and keep going. So I think a lot of people have this get rich quick thing in their mind that a land business they're going to they're going to land a unicorn overnight and next month they're going to be making six figures. That's actually just totally false. And it really annoys me when I see some of the educators out there that espouse that because it's the reality is it does take hard work and you do need to keep at it. You do need to have a runway of a good couple of months to have your marketing in play and keep it going. It's the ones that are consistent that tend to not see the results that they want, Right. So the second thing about oversaturation, and when it comes to you, I want to come back to what you said before about essentially we're working with just over 200 competitors. The thing is, we're not really because not all of them are active at the same time. So if I was to look out of those 200, how many of them are more people that do this, the full time business as opposed to ones that are just hobbyists that might do a deal here and there? I would say less than 50% of those are full time people, though that's not huge. The US has 350 million people in it. If I'm only dealing with 100 people, it's not massive.
Joe: Yeah, well, and here's the other interesting thing. Like some of these counties that are competitive, you can go and pull list of 30, 40,000 vacant landowners in that one county. One county. Right. Can do you think that even the most active investors, I would guess probably the majority of your active investors at least, are sending maybe a thousand postcards or 2000 letters a week. Is that about right? Maybe more? Yeah.
Alicia: The average is about 4 to 5000 a month. Correct. And here's the other thing with that 30 to 40000 list of landowners, right? We might have two or three customers in the same area, like might be the same county or similar counties around it. But this customer and we're always monitoring this, by the way, so we do get that 30,000 foot views. So we try and keep it nice and fair. But first customer, their strategy is infill lots. They're only doing 0.1 of an up to one acre and they've got specific zip codes that they're going after because they want to build. They've got builders and developers on their buyers list as part of their strategy. They can customer is doing small acreage. They want properties that they can do a minor subdivision. So they're doing like one acre up to five acres and they want to have those lots that they can just do a split into two. So to parcel, that's their strategy. Person number three wants to do four deals a year. They want them to be six figure deals. They only want to work on bigger acreage and they can do big subdivisions and entitlements on. So there we go with three customers in the same county, all with three different strategies. Now, are they marketing to the same people? No, the data is totally different. Even within that data, let's just say that we've got two customers that are focused on infill. But one of the customers wants to go after people that have owned their properties for more than five years and they're in a trust or they've got it as a quitclaim deed because their area of expertise is dealing with probate. Customer number two just wants everybody that's owned properties that have had it for more than two years. So even they're in that minutia of data. You're dealing with different lists.
Joe: And not everybody is mailing the same list at the same time.
Alicia: Right, exactly. They're really not. And guess, are there some popular areas? Sure there are. This is where doing your research before you go into an area is vitally important. And I think that's probably in the toolkit that you're giving away. Right. Go and do your research. Both the buyer and seller activity and the buyer activity. Are people buying below market? Is there a whole bunch of wholesalers in there that you don't want to be in there, but go and do some more digging and some more research these days? And if you're finding that a market's too hot, doesn't mean there's no deals in there, but maybe switch it off and choose another market in the short term and get back to it later.
Joe: Well, here's the other thing, too, is that that market you may have to offer more than you normally do, but you can sell it for higher than you normally do as well. Right. And you can sell them faster. I started off my journey was more I want to do rural recreational land. I don't want to develop or anything either. I didn't want to subdivide entitlements. I just wanted to get cheap, rural, vacant land and sell it to somebody who wants to throw a camper out there or do camping or something like that.
Joe: And then I started interviewing some guys that were doing a lot of these small infill lots in the middle of these suburban areas in Florida. And they're like, it's so much easier. And there was watching them do it and they're showing me what they're doing is like, Wow, that is pretty cool because there's so much demand. So there's a lot of advantages to either strategy. Would you agree, like if you do recreational land way out in the in the hills, they're easier to sell maybe because there's less restrictions. You can get bigger, lots less restrictions, but there's also fewer buyers out there. But the little infill lots, there's a ton of money moving into those markets and a lot of people wanting to buy land there. So you might have to pay more, you might have more competition, but you can sell them so much faster and it's a lot easier to write those things too, right?
Alicia: Really much easier to comp and also to look at recent buyers in the area. But I'm with you like these days, I think we're not in the middle of 2021 when deals were just flying left, right and center and it was great. Everyone was celebrating then, right? We're not in that cycle anymore. We're out of that cycle and the cycle is going down to the bottom end as it does. People who are surprised about that shouldn't be because real estate always goes in cycles. We know this, but I think sometimes as well not being greedy with the deals. So if a good deal, if you can get it fair $0.60 on the dollar and still sell it at 85, $0.90 on the dollar and it's a good deal and it's going to yield 30 or $40,000 profit, that's still a great deal. You know, if everybody wins, if the buyer wins, the seller wins and you win, it's a good deal.
Joe: Yeah. The other thing I'm thinking about, too, is I always say compared to what? The comparison.
Alicia: Compared to what?
Joe: Compared to what? You think that 1% response rate for direct mail is bad. Maybe it's not as good as it used to be, but when you compare it to houses, when these land, these house investors, they're happy to get one quarter of 1% response rate. We're getting 1% four, three, four times better.
Alicia: Correct. I agree. Like most of our customers at the moment, the average is they're getting one deal per every 3 to 3 and a half thousand mailers. Some are actually getting better than that in some areas that are less competitive. But single family homes they see looking at one deal for every 5 to 6000 mailers. And again, really need to narrow down your strategy in both of those. I guess the other thing, let's talk about response rates for a second, if we can, Joe. Would that be okay?
Alicia: Yeah. I think the other thing at the moment, direct mail and this is where we're a little different because we're not just going to send out the same mail place that everyone else is using because then you're going to look and sound like everyone. And I've heard this in many of the groups that I'm in say that people say, I spoke to myself. They got 12 letters this week and they were all the same, that what are you doing to stand out? So when we're working with our customers, we're really crafting a mail strategy that's going to be different to everything else. So first of all, what is the strategy that coming back to those examples, I said before, what is that strategy? How do we let the data determine what direct mail piece we send? If you're going to go after being properties that you could subdivide, you're not going to send them the same letter that you're going to send to someone who's got an infill up. This just doesn't make sense. So crafting the right letter and the right message to the right market is also important. But then making sure that your mailing strategy is at least two or three touchpoints. So it's not just send one letter. And hope for the best. Maybe it's let a number one talks about these things in three or in two months time. Let a number to talk about these things. Two months after that postcard, which is mail piece number three, talks about these things. Yeah. So there's a whole range of things that you can do to stand out and be seen. And a lot of people are just sending the same stuff and going, This isn't working anymore. Maybe we need to change that up.
Joe: So what are you seeing as some average response rates?
Alicia: Yeah, like average response rates is still sitting at about the 1%. Again, we have those more competitive countries that are sitting between the half to 1%, and we have less competitive countries that are sitting above 1% to 1.5, 1.6. So that's still pretty good. But I always say to people these days as well, depending upon their KPIs and what they're measuring. So, yes, response rate is important, but more than response rate is deal flow out of those responses. Are they giving you the right deal? Because if you're only getting ten responses, but those ten responses are awesome and that gets you three deals that are $20,000 each. That's a good mailing. So I would also encourage people to really think about what they're measuring because their responses have changed. The let's now go for quality rather than quantity, because I'd rather work on a small amount of really awesome deal than a large amount of deals that like right double the work unless they're one.
Joe: Totally agree. So one of the things we're seeing a lot of success with even in our competitive markets for us personally is we're sending out range postcards right now where we say we might be able to offer you between here and here if you're interested in. But even more importantly than that, we're actually now talking to them. When they call in, we either call them back right away or answer the phones like, Oh, well, here's where we've gone. My philosophy has always been kind of sender. I prefer neutral letters and postcards, and I want to ask you about that in a minute. I just want to get as many calls as I can. And what I used to do with my two teenagers is the voice mail would come in. We would just send them an offer and we would talk to you about you know, we'd talk to them after they got our offer. And so that worked. We were averaging one out of every 30 offers get accepted. Right now, what we're finding is when we talk to them first, before we send the offer, we're averaging one out of every 15 to 20 offers. Get accepted just because we talk to them a little bit. First, build a little report, find out if it's a deal we're even interested in. So we're not sending as many offers, but we're getting more of them accepted. Does that make sense?
Alicia: I love it. It totally does. If we you know, you and I know Brent Daniels teaching you to talk to people. One thing you hear me say a lot to our customers is it's a relationship before real estate. Or another way to put it is it's people before properties. These days, the word wholesale tends to have a bit of a negative connotation. Now, would you agree, Joe?
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
Alicia: Correct. But a lot of us are not wholesaling per say. We're buying properties, we're doing different things with them. However, to the average property owner out there, the average seller who's still getting targeted to sell their property direct to a buyer, they they've been over run with this for a long time and maybe a lot of those sellers have been burnt by people that have got them under contract, haven't closed on that contract, didn't do the right thing by the seller and now they've got a bit of a bad taste in their mouth. So gone are the days. That's why I said hallelujah when he said that, because I think gone are the days that you can push someone to a voicemail and not speak to them and still think you're going to get a deal. People will now give preference to people that they feel they can trust and that they have a relationship with. The only way that that's going to happen is to get on the phone.
Joe: There's so many things to do that like you could ask him, do you have any other properties you can ask him? Do you talk to them? You get to know them a little bit and find out what their situation is. Right. And many times, you know, we tell them if you want full price, we can't. We're not your guy, but we might be able to refer some realtors to you. Just the fact that you say we want you to sell this property for the highest price possible, if that's what you want. Right. So here are some realtors that can probably help you. Just the fact that we can say that to them increases their trust and they make calls from realtors and then realize, I don't want to go through that hassle. So, yeah, well, you just buy it from me, right?
Alicia: You got it. Really important all about relationship.
Joe: Yeah, relationship. And then follow up. I think if people get that, they can. Competition almost becomes irrelevant because even in a competitive market, you can still do more deals, bigger deals by just talking to people, by doing more follow up being sending better offers. Right? Yep. Yep. I wanted to ask you about.
Alicia: Oh, go ahead. Can we chat about follow up for a sec? Because I think that's a really important point because again, what I see the difference between our really successful customers and our customers that are not as successful, it's in the follow up. So when a lead comes through getting on the phone to them that day, like even if you haven't got an offer ready, just introducing yourself. Hey, thank you so much for contacting us about your property. Let's ask them basic info, right? Let's get to that. Now, if you send an offer or talk about an offer and they decline like they want out, put them into your drip secret. Now, that doesn't have to be a formal drip sequence, but what you should still be doing is you know that. They want to sell. You've had a chance to talk to them. Now it's just a case of landing on the right price and the right time. So we've had people like I've got someone that I've been in touch with for ten months that every couple of weeks I send them a little email or a quick phone call or a quick gets a message. Hey, it's AJ here. Just keeping in touch just to see how you going. Yeah, that's it. It's not a sales call. It's not a Tell me what's going on with your property. It's every now and then I might mention the property, but it's a relationship call. It's letting them know I'm still here. Now, this deal that we're about to close with this person, it's a seven figure deal. So I'm going to work for ten months to get that right. But even if it was a $20,000 deal, I'd still get my team to reach out and touch base and keep the lines of communication open, because you just never know when it's the right time or the right price for that person.
Joe: I think there is a there's a real important component in your follow up with direct mail as well. And one of the things that we did, we did a study, this was for houses, but this is about three years ago. We looked at of the 58 deals that we did that year, only four of them came from that initial contact with the seller. If we wouldn't have done any follow up, we would have only done four deals that year on average. The follow up was three months, 7 to 8 touches, but the follow up is important. So one of the things I like to encourage people to do is don't just send one offer and then forget it. Send the offer again a month later, send the offer again a month after that. After that, send them another postcard, send them another letter, call them, email them, text them, leave them a voicemail, keep that follow up going until they die or they sell their property. That's how you do deals, right?
Alicia: Yep. Yep. And if you keep doing that, when everyone else out there who's a hobbyist is not doing that, well, guess what? You're going to be the one that they call. So I guess the question that people always need to be asking themselves is what am I willing to do over and above what the masses out there are doing to be able to stand out? Right. And you mentioned 7 to 13 touch points. So the good thing with working with supercharged offers is not only are we doing direct mail, but we're also doing cold calling. We're running ads on Google and Facebook, we're retargeting. So we're doing a whole combination of things to keep you in front of your sellers. And within our campaigns, we often have people that do exactly as you described. They'll do a two or three touch process in a six month period and it doesn't yield results, that's for sure.
Joe: Excellent. So I wanted to ask you about blind offers or neutral letters. What are you seeing most investors doing today? Are they still There's a lot of them still doing neutral or blind offers?
Alicia: Yeah, a lot of them look like our customers that are doing both. But here's what I find that's working best at the moment. Now we're doing this recording in November 2023. Market is going down. Things are not looking great out there for a lot of people, but just like after 2008, there's always sellers and there's always buyers in every market, right? So don't listen to the media, folks. The hype is there, but things will still get transacted. So but the thing is, at the moment is a lot of tellers are holding on for higher prices, even though they can see in the media that the prices are doing this, that they're holding on. So what we're finding that works best at the moment is actually a bit of a combination, Joe, And it's a blank offer. So we're sending out a cover page that has got some negotiation points on it that says, Hey, Joe, we can see you've got some properties, etc.. We want to make a fair cash offer to you and we're direct, directed by a direct to seller, but we want to know what your fair catch price would be based upon the following items. And then we've got things like is it cleared? Is it not cleared? Does it have a slope? Are there back taxes? Is there anyone else on the title? Is there pre that needed like what's all these things that we're going to have to sort out for you? And then the second page is a contract. It's blank and it actually says based upon the terms in the cover letter, put in what you feel you would be willing to sell your property for for cash. And a quick closing. Now, the whole idea around that, are you going to get some crazy offers? Yes, but you do that when you do blind offers anyway. You do it in any other letter. Right. But the whole thing about it is you're going to know where they're at on the bottom. They're going to give you that they are going to opt in, they're going to give you the name, phone number, email, and they going to sign it. Now you've got a negotiation strategy. Hey, Joe. So this is how the conversation would go. Hey, Joe, got your signed contract back. That's awesome that you want 50,000. I've run some numbers. The most I can give is 3 to 5. Do we have a deal? That's awesome. Now it becomes a negotiation strategy and it's all about how can I get people on the phone to start that process? And the other thing, you know, I said before about myth versus facts, I have a lot of people that come to us and say, I want to do blind offers because it's quicker. That's a myth. It's not quicker. There's a lot more data to do upfront. And even if you're doing a numbers on mass, which we do for our customers, the minute you get a lead through that has signed a blind off a contract, you've still got to check your numbers, run your comms, verify it and perhaps negotiate so it doesn't circumnavigate it. I think that people think that it does, but no, it doesn't. You've still got to do the same amount of work. What it might do is pre-qualify your leads a little more. But. But the same amount of work still has to happen, right? No matter what do comes to it, how it gets to you, you've still got to do that. Is that due diligence, that comps, that negotiation process? So you miss versus fact there another one that's working great in the current market.
Joe: That blank offers is interesting. I've never heard of that before. Now are you can they fill that out and then mail it back or you get time to go to a website to fill out the information or what are you doing that.
Alicia: They can fill out the second page, mail it back. It's got a complimentary envelope. You know, all they need to do is pop a stamp on it, or they can click the QR code that's on the contract, takes them straight to the websites that we develop where they can fill in all their details and put a counteroffer. That's the section that we put on other websites to formalize an offer, and then that goes straight into our customer's CRM so they can do it a number of ways. And definitely, you know, we're seeing a lot more stuff happen on websites now more than ever. So one of the big things that we work with our customers on is things like branding and customer experience, customer experience being how easy are you making it feel prospects to do business with you? And if you're making it difficult because you only want to do business one way, you're leaving money on the table.
Joe: I've wrestled with that for a year, like because I want their phone number. I believe so strongly in getting on the phone. I've always said, if you're not on the phone, you're not making money. This this is the million dollar skill right here. So I've always been afraid with giving them a website to go to because that would then remove any excuse or they say, Oh, I don't have to call them now. So I just go to his website and they may not like my website, they may think it's ugly, the colors are weird. The picture, my picture is weird, or especially since my name is kind of out already known there. They might google my name Joe McCall and realize, Oh, that's some evil guru. So like I would rather them just call. So I've been saying on my postcards and letters for years, just text or call our 24 hour recorded voicemail and I only give them one choice and that's to call. I don't know, man. Have you tested that? Do you agree that maybe I'm not fine, though? Maybe I am losing some sellers?
Alicia: I would think that you are, and here's why. So let's put ourselves in our customer's shoes for a moment. A seller's shoes. We now have sellers across all demographics. They are in their eighties and nineties that are sitting on intergenerational land and they're even down in their twenties and thirties that people that have inherited properties or maybe they bought a property to build a house on and now they're divorced. Like we have people across all spectrums. Now I'm, I'm in my late forties, I am the kind of person that would respond to an ad or something digitally because that's how I operate. My parents are the kind of people that would respond to a direct mail piece where they can have a conversation with someone. So we need to create an environment that no matter who we're marketing to, whether they're 20, whether they're 90, whether they're digital nomads or they're phone people or they're their email people, we need to create an environment that makes it easy for them to choose how they want to interact with us. And then if you think about communication 1 to 1, we need to then respond in kind. So if you've got someone whose preferences, SMS or email, that should be your main communication method with them and ask them like even on your scripting, hey, what do you prefer? Do you prefer to keep in touch on email or are you more of a fine person? They'll tell you and then you know, note that.
Joe: So you just go, have you tested a postcard? Let's say that says Go to this website or call or text this number. What gets you more leads.
Alicia: Oh that is the million dollar question because it's so hard to test unless you're testing the same people in the same market with the same list. So to that degree, no, I haven't done a test to that in detail. But do we then look at response rates on our quarter will track how many people are going to your website, how many people are clicking on a QR code, how many people are calling you? So we're always looking at those three mediums like, where are the leads coming in from? Yeah, and interestingly enough, it's about 5050. The other people to think about as I say this, we do due diligence on properties. Your sellers are doing due diligence on you, especially if they've been burned by people in the past. They now want to know who they're doing business with. And we can see that because every time we send out a bunch of data right now, we can see the website visits go up quite dramatically and then they start to, you know, even off a little bit and then they go off and.
Joe: You're giving them the website on the letter, right?
Alicia: Correct. On the letter. They can click through as well.
Joe: Yeah, I have to test it more. I want their phone numbers right. I don't want to give them options so they can text me or call me.
Alicia: But the other thing to do, just to come back to what you said about you don't want them to land on your page and see you and maybe get confused about that. Right. There's nothing to stop you building your website. We've got a lot of customers that don't want their face anywhere on their business or their name, so we built it around their brand, like, what's the value proposition? How do they help? What are the different solutions that they're offering? Sellers I guess the seller has a probate or a title issue or something that they're going to need help with. What are sellers offering them to ease them into the fact that they're the right place to go and it doesn't have. To be personalized. I will say, though, that our websites that did that we do make that are personalized, that have people and profiles and, you know, different things on them. It does make a difference. You know, people have even told some of our customers and said, hey, I went to your website and I really loved what I saw and I love that you had your Christian values on that. I want to do business with you. So I guess at the end of the day, the message here for people to take away is we are not our prospects are prospects are our prospects. So we need to create an environment that ensures that we're taking all objections off the table for them.
Joe: Yeah, I get it. Okay.
Alicia: Have I convinced you, Joe?
Joe: No. No. Because, like here, here's an example on a little different related topic. So I create videos to sell things to people, right? I tested this before I had a $97 product I was selling. Teaching people how to do lease options virtually. Okay. And you and I know when you're at a sales page, it's annoying when there's a video playing and they hide all the controls, all you can do is play and pause. Right. Annoying. And then they hide the button below the call to action. They hide all that information, so they force you to watch this video before they even tell you what the price is, before they show you any information about it. And they don't let you fast forward or slow down the video. Right. So annoying to no end. But I've tested this many times where I hide the controls, I hide the information, and I only show that button pops up at minute 45 or, you know, three quarters of the way through it. Every single time. I do way better doing the more annoying things. In other words, my sales will be much higher. Opt ins. I'm talking double. Triple. Better. A lot of people get annoyed and mad. You know, you're just I would never watch a 30 minute video. I would never watch an hour and a half long webinar. But I've tested the same thing on a short 30 minute webinar and an hour and a half webinar. The hour and a half webinar always does better. I've tested it with, you know what I'm saying, those kinds of things. And so sometimes we want to be where our prospect is, but at the same time, we have to like, we can't be afraid to force them to do something because we think they mean we wouldn't like it. Does that make sense?
Alicia: It does, yeah. Yeah.
Joe: I think we just have to test it.
Alicia: Yeah, you do. And the only way to test it is to do something that you're currently not doing and monitor results. Right. And as I said before, people so many people I know don't even really think about their KPIs like, No, I am on regular calls with our customers where I'm always asking, what's your response rate, What's your conversion rate, how many you nurturing? I'm still surprised at how many people don't know that. And you should know. You know, knowing your numbers and I'm guilty of that myself. You know, sometimes I don't know the numbers, but you got to make it your business to be across it. Right. So it's interesting.
Joe: Okay. I want to ask you questions about what are you seeing now as the best markets in the country to do land deals in? Do you have to get specific down to the state or county if you want, but maybe regions or.
Alicia: Yeah, look, I mean, there's still you know, the Midwest is still pretty awesome, but we're getting a lot of customers having some success in like North Carolina, South Carolina, New Mexico, Mississippi, Tennessee. There's some great stuff there. But I also see some of our customers are now doing more in the north side of the country because, you know, we're heading into winter. Now is a good time to get properties under contract cheaper and then sell them in the spring time. So there's pros and cons to both. Believe it or not, you know, two of our really successful customers at the moment, one thing, Hawaii, one thing, Alaska. That wouldn't be places that we thought about, but they got great results.
Joe: Wow. Do they live out there or they're just.
Alicia: Nope, well the one that does Hawaii lives in Hawaii. The one that does Alaska. Lives in Texas.
Joe: Wow. Yeah, I've always I would love to do deals in Montana and Utah, but there's just I'm nervous about that because there's just seems like there's nothing that there's no activity going on there. It's it'd be hard to get comps, hard to find realtors as limiting beliefs of mine.
Alicia: Yeah. Always worth doing that market research. Right. To see what's possible.
Joe: Okay. Talk about lists. What kind of lists do you like to pull? And do you have any favorite data providers or do you just get that yourself?
Alicia: Yeah. So we with Supercharged Offers, we're actually really lucky because we've got a data warehouse that has every single property in the US in it. All of the owner attributes MLS records. It's got everything so we can actually get really creative with data. So we use our own data which is built in and we're able to go into the data warehouse and query it in there so we can pull anything. And I think what's really great about that is customers will often come to us with these crazy strategies that we did have a customer the other way. That's like, I really want to focus on probate deal. So I want to know in these five states, anybody that transacted their property on a quick claim deed or $100 transfer, we're like, Cool, we can do that. We have customers that come to us and say, I want to do a multi property strategy. I've got a mailer that's going to go out to people that have between one and five properties and a different mailer that goes out. Two people between five and ten. We can do that. So we can pretty much do anything, which is pretty exciting because there are a lot of customers now are getting more creative with what they want to do. Gems are my favorite list. Honestly, I like sticking with the tried and tested, which is don't overdo Scrum. I think a lot of people these days are over scrubbing to the point that they're leaving money on the table. Because if I look at one of our biggest deals to date, our biggest deal today, where we made just over 250,000. It was landlocked, it was wetlands on it, but the wetlands there was no protected species or wildlife or flora, fauna and the wetland that wasn't wet underfoot. There was just a water table that had certain areas that were a bit damp. So when we got the survey done in the delineation report, we knew that it could be mitigated and those properties next door that had already been mitigated and it was residential, but it also had a future designation of commercial was the best deal we've ever done. Now, if we had over scrubbed our data because it didn't have access and did have a right of way and it did have an easement on the title, first in first glance, we would have probably gone not a deal, but it was an awesome deal. So I think sometimes when we pull this for our own stuff, we're just really looking at what are the tried and tested things. So people that have owned the properties for more than three years haven't done anything. They're individuals. Churches trust take out the corporations government owned. We love making sure that it's got agricultural land in there because in a lot of counties agricultural land is multi-zone. You can use it for a number of things.
Joe: Sorry, let me rewind a little bit. Do you remove out leases?
Alicia: We typically don't, but a lot of our customers like it if we do that for our customers. Yeah, but we often leave LLCs in because we've done some really good deals with LLCs over the years.
Joe: Yeah, I do too. Yeah, I do too. Yeah.
Alicia: What's my favorite list is a list that worked and don't over scrub.
Joe: The only filters I do are they bought it over 5 to 10 years ago. Depends if I want a bigger list or not. And they don't live in that county.
Alicia: Yep out of county owners. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. You really don't need much more than that.
Joe: And maybe I'm leaving a lot of deals on the table. The people that do live in that county, I don't know.
Alicia: Really. Like, we could easily mail to them afterwards and then go, you know, you could have a separate mailer, one that is, we see that you don't live anywhere near your property, that you're in another county. Maybe you don't visit a very often. So let's have a talk about what your plans are. This is someone that lives in county, which is we see that you've got a property that might be close to where you live, but you've never used it. So can we have a conversation about what your plans are? And maybe you'd prefer the cash instead. So again, market message match, right? Let the data tell you what you might be marketing to that person.
Joe: Yeah, that's good. Okay. I want to ask you about a CRMs. What are some of your favorite CRMs that you see out there?
Alicia: My favorite one would have to be Pebble. I just love what Jesse and Kevin have done with creating, and there's still so much on their to do list that they keep adding to Pebble. That Pebble for me is a great way because it manages both your sellers and your buyers. There's a lot of theorems out there. I see that a good at managing seller pipelines, but not via pipelines or vice versa. But there seems to manage both and I love that they've centralized all of their communications now into one. So all your calls, emails, systems, etc. So on the one communication thread which makes it super easy. So yeah, I love those guys. I think they're doing a great job.
Joe: And is it working? The texting and the outbound inbound calling. I know there were some issues with TCPA or whatever, and they've been able to clear those hurdles and still keep all those communications there.
Alicia: Yeah, look, I think so. I haven't heard any different, but definitely, you know, using the platform to be able to call from Inter. I know that that's working really well. TCPA is in everyone's corner at the moment, I think kind of things. A little angry gremlin in the corner, you know, I know people that are using launch control that have had it shut down. I know people using, I reply, that have had it shut down. So we're finding a lot of people coming back to us to help them out with cold calling and direct mail at the moment, because those two things, they still work and they're still part of the tried and tested, right? So yeah.
Joe: All right. So you talked about direct cold calling. Talk about that a little bit. Do you actually do the cold calling yourself or do you help them find and hire and train cold callers?
Alicia: We've got a relationship with a team that they're all American based call so we don't go offshore. We've got the scripts that we know that works. We skip, trace the data for them, we get the cold calling done. We just make sure on a daily basis those leads are getting emailed through to our customer and their job is to then get on the phone to those leads straightaway, connect to them, make an offer, build that relationship.
Joe: Okay. Few questions I have left here. What advice would you give to people that want to stand out above the competition? We've been talking a lot about that, right? Like they're concerned with competition. They're concerned about picking going into a market that already has a lot of activity in there. But what can people do to stand above their competition?
Alicia: Yeah, I think what they can do to stand above is make sure that they do have an omni channel presence. And that's what. Whereabouts. So if you're just doing one channel of marketing, so if you're just doing a semester, you're just doing direct mail. Think about it in a combination. So what would your marketing look like if you had a multitouch mail piece, If you had ads running on Google and Facebook, if you had a Facebook page, sorry, a website that was highly converting and highly nurturing, if you had email automation set up every time someone went to your website and submitted some details, if you were doing cold calling for more expensive deals, like what? What's it going to look like for you if you had like five channels going rather than just one? Because that's the way to stand out. The other way to stand out is also by looking at your online marketing. So coming back to what we were saying before about websites and social, now, I think people, they often just full pay for a templated page. That is basic. There's no SEO on it, there's nothing special about it. It can scare people off, really thinking about what's your online presence and what do you want to be putting out to the world that is going to nurture your lead to go, Oh, I've landed in the right place and I need to speak to these people. And that's all about content, content creation, development in a building, something that's going to make you stand out as well. And branding, I think it's important for people to think about their business as a business and really think about what they want the world to be seeing.
Joe: So you do a lot of stuff for investors and what kind of client are you looking to work for and do you can you work with the beginner who's on it has a tight budget. Where do you want to? Are you trying to help people that mainly have maybe more money to invest in there?
Alicia: Yeah, that's right, the website. The thing is we work with people across all of that spectrum. So if you've just done your education and you're now looking at getting a proof of concept in your first deal, we've got services that can just do your data and mailings to get you started, right? Let's get you out of the overwhelm of trying to do it all yourself. Work with us. We'll get those mailers that get that phone ringing all the way up to people that are seasoned investors that need a rebrand, a relaunch. They want to outsource to a marketing team and get their VA focused on something else. So they'll often come to us and say, Look, I want to do 10,000 miles a month. I want you to relaunch my online presence here, and you guys take everything so we can do everything in between. And we're actually with our customers for the long journey because you can start off with a small campaign. Then after a few months you might change it up a little bit. Then when you get a few more deals, you might turn it up a little bit more. So we're with you for the long term, which I think is wonderful. We become quite good friends with our customers, which I love.
Joe: Good, excellent advice for beginners. You know, 95% of people listening to this, they're interested in land. They've never done a land deal before. What kind of advice would you give them to get started? And maybe they've been a little overwhelmed with all the other options and stuff that we've been talking about here. How could you help them?
Alicia: Yeah, first thing I would say is don't get caught up in bright shiny syndrome. If you've only got a small budget, then do the basics and do them well. So get some data down, get some direct mail sent out and get your phone ringing. Even if you only get a couple of phone calls, it gives you a chance to put your training and your learning into practice. So move away from the overthinking and move into action. And if I can reassure everyone on here, the first mailer that we ever did, like seven or eight years ago now, the first ever mailer we did, we got our phone number wrong. We had a typo. So you are going to make mistakes, but you do recover from them, right? And so get out of there. Be thinking, do your basic research on your county buyer and seller activity. Is it a growth path city? Is the infrastructure happening? Like is the what's the job right there? So do some basic analysis and get that looks like a good market. Make sure it's not a nondisclosure state to start with. I think that just makes life a bit more difficult for you when you're starting out and then come to us, we'll go pull the data, we'll get some mountains out and we'll get you started.
Joe: Alicia, how can people get a hold of you?
Alicia: Yeah, they can just go to Supercharged Offers dot com. They can also just go to Supercharged Offers on Facebook and we've got all the links in there as well. And if you want to email me direct, it's just Alicia at Supercharged Offers dot com and I also want to give you a bit of a freebie here as well just for everyone, which is a supercharged off the success scorecard. It gives you an opportunity to for you to kind of look at your business and benchmark where you're at and what you need to really understand all the different components of how to run your business. So I'll put that, I'll give that to you and you can put that in the show notes as well.
Joe: Okay, cool. So if people want that, it'll be if you go to real estate investing mastery dot com, hopefully I got an error message here. I hope I'm all right. Real estate investing mastery dot com and go to this just do a search for Alicia and you'll see the scorecard, cool. Well Alicia thank you so much. Hopefully my computer hasn't crashed here. I appreciate it, that was a really good podcast.
Alicia: Yeah, I really love speaking with you today and just going over some of the topics that I know we've talked about before, but they're still so important to remind people of. So for anyone listening and tuning in, thank you. And I hope I can help you on your journey.
Joe: All right. Thank you so much, Alicia. Supercharged Offers dot com. We'll see you guys later. Take care, everybody. Bye bye.