Joe: What's up? My amigos and friends. How are you doing, Joe McCall here. Today's the 11th of October, and I've got a guest with me. His name is Eric Lunsford. Eric, how are you doing?

Eric: I'm doing good, Joe. How are you?

Joe: Excellent. Very good. I told you guys I made an announcement in the Facebook group the other day that I was going to have a special guest with me here. And his name is Eric. And Eric has been doing some land deals for a little while now and been doing his cruciate. And he's been sharing his numbers in the Facebook group. In fact, I want to share with you kind of what he's been doing here in the Facebook group, because I want to make sure you guys see his posts and you know who he is and you know who I'm talking about. First, I'm going to mark this video as an announcement. All right. So let me share Zoom with you guys. Here's the Facebook group. We move this over and this is Eric. He posted something in here that was really cool. This one right here. This was from ten days ago. And this is what I love about Eric. He just is very transparent with his numbers. And he talks about how much mail he's been sending out, the leads that he's been getting in the average response rates, number of contracts. He's been getting deals that he's been closing these contracts, these ratios, these numbers, I call them KPIs, key performance indicators. So he's sending mail and he's doing deals. His average gross profit is around seven or $8,000. And his revenue in September was 108,000 bucks. Not bad. Now, I'm not sure how much you spent on marketing, Eric, but your gross profit was 24,000. So when you say gross profit, is that like revenue that came in minus your purchase price for the property, minus the direct mail you spent?

Eric: So it is not the direct mail. That's because that's going to be about a couple thousand dollars per contract. But it is minus the commissions. I use a realtor for all of my deals, the minus commissions, minus closing costs. Basically, it's whatever I get in my pocket at the end of the deal.

Joe: Okay, cool. So you still after you figure in direct mail, you're spending about 1000 $2,000 in direct mail per deal. Yeah.

Eric: Yes.

Joe: All right, cool. So I wanted to get Eric on here to introduce him, you guys to him, and he posts in the Facebook group. And I'd like to have Eric talk about some of what he's doing here. And a lot of you guys have been reaching out to Eric and asking him questions and saying, hey, can you how do you do this? Can you help me with this? I heard Joe does it this way, but how do you do it? And I know that happens all the time, right? And that's cool because it's just different when you hear it coming from somebody else. It's different than if you just hearing it from me. Although I would never lie to you guys, I want you all to know that I'm never like pulling your leg and just telling you things that I haven't done before or that's false. But sometimes you need to hear from another buddy, another somebody else like Eric. So, Eric, tell us a little bit about you. Tell us where you're from and what you're doing.

Eric: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'll try and keep it short and sweet. But as you'll see, I'm from Idaho, the great state of Idaho. Yeah. I mean, to Joe's point, I've been doing this. I'm very similar in the same boat as a lot of people who are in this group. I started really at the beginning of the year, beginning of this year, January one, I had a full time job. You know, I had a full time six year job that I've actually heard Joe talk about this, too. I'm very similar to him where I took about three years. Just learning, learning, learning, learning, learning everything about real estate and never really doing a lot. And then it was probably about last summer I was listening to his podcast and he happened to be talking. I don't remember. We were talking to Joe, but you're talking to somebody about vacant land, or maybe it was just your own experience, but I thought that is something I can get behind. You know, I worked sort of your normal 9 to 5 and in reality was probably more like a 7 to 6 like most of us. Right? And so it was like, I don't have the time to do a bunch of cold calling. I don't have the time to go on the walk properties. I don't have the time to really manage rehab, you know, contractors and all those things. And it just that really wasn't my what I call my vehicle. And then when Joe started talking about land, I saw it. I really like the simplicity of this model. And like I said, that was last summer. So I probably dove in headfirst really for about a few months there. I bought Joe's course. I went through all the different modules and I know me, so I don't I don't recommend everybody do this, but I know me and I sort of have to burn all the ships to really be successful at something. And so on October 3rd last year, I walked into my boss's office and said, Hey, I'm giving you three months notice at the end of the year, I'm done. Which is scary because I hadn't yet even to mail an email or let alone do a deal. But again, it was, I don't know, I would call it a healthy risk. I knew that I had the signs to give myself about a year to make this work. Not only a year of providing the same sort of lifestyle for my family, but also a year of being able to invest a little bit into the business itself. Right? And so that was really what I set out to do at the. Beginning of the year and it's been great. And I've learned a ton not only about this business, but just about myself as well. I think I've learned time just around, just what it takes to build a successful business regardless of land or whatever it might be. And just almost any business. It's just like I said, I'm a big learner. As you can see, this is like a quarter of the books that I have. I read a lot and so I know a lot around what I read from other entrepreneurs. And now I get to kind of feel it and see it myself. So yeah, it's been a blast. And I mean, what, ten months interest and made the decision a couple of weeks ago that I do not have to go back to a 9 to 5 and I can keep, keep building this and scaling this and kind of on to the next stage.

Joe: Awesome. Talk about the number of deals that you've done since you went full time. And then I want to ask you questions on how you're doing your deals now.

Eric: Yeah, for sure. So I have done I'm going to I apologized kind of looking over because I'm looking at my numbers themselves. But as of today, I have actually done about oh, I've done about 17 deals. Some of those have been closed already done. Some of those are in escrow. Some of those are under contract still for sale. But I've done about 17 deals. And I would note this is that my first deal, even though I started on January 1st, essentially I did not get my first deal closing paid until June night. So that was only because I was learning the process and I drug my feet a lot. Through the first couple of deals. I didn't want to buy them yet. I wanted to try and find a buyer before I actually closed down. On the closing process itself. Took a long time. In fact, that deal took six months to close and that was just I think I posted something on Facebook. I won't go into details, but there's just a lot involved in that situation. So really in the last, what, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, you know, three and a half months, I've done the 17 deals.

Joe: So things have really started picking up because you're sending more mail, sending more mail.

Eric: I know I understand the process a little bit better. Right. So now I know what happens when I get a deal under contracts. Now I know what to sort of expect when I get a, you know, a buyer who actually wants to buy the property. I know who I can kind of reach out to help me move the process along. Right. Title company agents, attorneys. I've worked with some attorneys, too. And so you just sort of learn the process a little bit more every time you do it. And yeah, speeds up.

Joe: Right. We're always learning. I mean, we're in some new markets right now in Florida. And we just found yesterday a buyer that said, I'll buy anything that you can give me. I don't care if it's thousand dollars or $1,000,000, just send me all of your deals. He wants them all. So those are our A-plus buyers, right? Yeah. So we'll see if he's really if he's all talk, you know, But that's what happens when you go into these markets and you start. So now where we have three deals under contract in this particular county and he's looking at them today and one or two of them are marginal deals. Like if this guy's not interested, then it's probably not a good deal and we might have to go back and renegotiate or cancel the agreement. Yeah, but talk a little bit about how you do your deals, Eric. So you what kind of postcards or letters do you send? You send them to voicemail. Do you call them before you send the offer? What do you do there?

Eric: Yeah, I mean, I follow a lot of what you originally teach, right? So I do the letters, I do neutral letters. I don't do postcards. Not that I don't want to. We can dive into that too, as well. I just. I wanted to pick something and really stick to it. Right. And so when I originally took the course back in, or it was maybe October, November last year, that's what you were doing, right? That's where we were sort of teaching. And so I do letters, so I neutral letters. I do have I use freedom stock, which I think is fantastic.

Joe: Are you using for yourself, for your direct mail or using rocket or.

Eric: I use rocket for direct mail. So yeah, I'm honestly I've been a really big fan of them. You and I talked about this. I think the only thing that's a little bit I wish I didn't have to do is that I, you know, I do 15000 hours a month, so I have to preorder. And so you've got to pay that upfront rate. So that can be pretty expensive. FreedomSoft doesn't make you do that.

Joe: But are you doing bulk rate or are you doing first class?

Eric: I'm actually doing bulk rate.

Joe: Okay.

Eric: So that is a little bit of the difference. It saves quite a bit of money on just OpEx, right? But as long as I'm mailing consistently I mail on a weekly basis. Yeah, I already know that I'm about two and a half to three weeks lag time. So from the time that I mail it, I really don't start getting those leads for about two or three weeks. But that's fine as long as I know that right now, if I were to take a break, that's going to hurt me because I'll have a week or two of just crickets, right? And so I just kind of have to understand that.

Joe: You should try the range postcard. We were talking about that.

Eric: That's what we were talking about.

Joe: Yeah, I was just talking to my guy today, and it's working pretty good.

Eric: Yeah, I definitely want to as individuals on this phone call and maybe I'm sure there's other people who are already here as you look to scale and I'll say this too as well, my intent at the beginning of the year and will continue to be is that I don't want to work more than a couple of hours a day myself. Actively in the business. And so as I am mailing 15,000 mailers, obviously you see your lead generation tick up significantly. And so for me, I'm right about that point. But when I start to scale up again to, let's say 30,000 mailers a month on, I'm going I want to take some of those people who are at retail or over retail. I just rather maybe not hear from them. Right. And so giving them that range offer kind of helps weed that out.

Joe: So then the calls go to voicemail in FreedomSoft, right? And then do you call them back right away or do you send them an offer first?

Eric: So I will send them an offer again. I I've been pretty transparent about this on the Facebook page, too. I very rarely will call people. In fact, I'm looking at all the deals that I've actually closing been paid for. There's only one individual I ever picked up the phone and talk to, otherwise it was all done via text and email. That's a millennial for you right there. Yeah, I don't. want to I don't want to be on the phone. I don't want to talk to people. I will if I, if I need to right, I will. If I feel like I've got I'm kind of right on the on the edge of making it a good deal. Of course, if they've got concerns or they're just more comfortable talking. But most people are okay with texts and emails these days. And so what I will do is they'll call, they'll leave a voicemail. I turn it around within 24 hours. So I work every day. But again, it's only one or 2 hours a day so easily. Within 24 hours somebody gets an offer. I what I will usually do is I will they just call and leave a voicemail? No email? No, no. Or I don't know if they have it capabilities of like ASM, mass messaging. What I'll do is I'll mail them an offer, but then I'll immediately text and they'll say, Hey, I just sent an offer in the mail. If you'd like, I can email it to you as well. Just let me know what that is. I'd say probably 50% of the time they give me their email as well, and then I'll email that to and then we just kind of go from there.

Joe: Talk about, I got some questions for you and the reason I'm writing them down because I'm afraid I'm going to forget talk about your well, okay, let me get rewind even more. You're getting like a 1% response rate. I love this because you're saving a lot of money on direct mail because you're doing bulk rate, your response rate. I bet you would be higher if you sent first class. But I may be wrong. I mean, the guys at rocket print, they swear by bulk rate. They say it's not a big deal. You just have to wait longer for the leads to come in. But also, you're saving a lot of money. So which means you can send more mail for the same amount. So maybe it's a wash. Maybe it's maybe it's a wash. Because if your budget is, you know, $10,000 a month for direct mail, which some of you guys that's obviously that's a lot that I'm not sure what the numbers would be. But if the response rates like how much would the response rate jump? I don't know you'd have the only way to know is testing that. So the somebody was asking do you is free to solve texting working for you right now.

Eric: It is yeah I mean I think we all knew that the carriers is some things recently where it wasn't working for about maybe two or three weeks so I actually hopped over to Google Voice. It was way less convenient, but it was free and it was still pretty simple for me to do. And I posted on the Facebook page too, about this as well. I think the free himself thing was great. I probably once a week would email them, just saying, Hey, where are we at? Right? And they'd say, Well, we're still having discussions. And I will say part of that was my small part of that was that the company name that I had in FreedomSoft was just ever so slightly different. I think there was like a missing comma compared to what the federal government had as my LLC. And so naturally, whoever it was that was sort of reviewing those files just sort of dismissed it and moved along. Right. So there was a little bit of on me too as well. But yeah, I think it was about a two or three week period there where I was using Google Voice for text.

Joe: All right. So I love this too. You're sending them a text, you're sending your mail. You're sending them an offer in the mail. Yeah. Talk about your process for coming up with your offers. How do you do that?

Eric: Yeah. So it's pretty simple. I mean, really, what I'll do is I'll use Zillow and or Redfin. So I say that just because there's those nondisclosure states like Texas, that he still is not going to do a lot of them. So really what I'll do is I will I will hone in on where my property is on Zillow and ideally find a decent amount of comps in that same neighborhood within the last 90 days. So there's you know, there's a tool there that you recommended that I absolutely love that it's that pebble. What is it will add on or whatever right It is really quickly averages all of the sold comps or whatever it might be. So I use that religiously. I mean, I'll go through Zillow, I'll find properties again, ideally 90 days. That's super easy to do, say in Florida. But if you're in, let's say Arizona, more rural, I, I have to back it out to a year. Right. 12 months. And I'll basically just look at the sold comps and I'll use that pebble tool to give me an idea of where sort of the average is per acre. And then I'll take a quick look at the actives in that same range. Actives really, because again, that's your competition. So I'm not always trying to be the lowest price, but I definitely want to. Be one of the lowest prices just a little bit quickly. And so sometimes you'll see the comps are very different, Like the act is like just this morning I did one where surprisingly new actives were telling me that it was about double what the sold comps were telling me. And so then I kind of go with the lower end one. Honestly, it takes me about 3 to 4 minutes to call the property and I don't put it on a that sort into it. I know that I'm probably going to be within that range. It's awesome. And I've had this weird mentality lately. Joe You probably agree with this too, is like all I'm trying to get you to do is actually say no. Like, if you say yes, fantastic. But really what I want you to say is, No, that's ridiculous. So I can kind of move you to like, I'll touch base in three months, but a lot of times people are like, You're about five grand, too short. It's like, awesome, I can work with that. Let me get a little more detail and see if I can do something.

Joe: I love it. By the way, Kevin says I still can't text. I'm considering dropping FreedomSoft as a result. Kevin I would say wait, because every single if you're having problems with FreedomSoft if you switch to another CRM, you're going to have the same problem with them and you're just going to have to. You're just extending and pushing out the pain. I press, trust me, almost not almost every single other CRM that does texting or any kind of phone things is having these same issues. I belong to two or three other CRMs and one of them kicked me off completely and it took about a month to get back on the other one. This is for other businesses I have the other one sent a message saying, and this isn't actually one of mine, it's another one that I follow. Anyway, they sent a message to everybody saying, Sorry, you can't do texting or phone calls anymore. Boom, That's it. Like we're not even trying to fix it. You just can't do it anymore. We don't offer it anymore. Right. And then a bunch of other ones that have just shut down stopped and said, we're trying to fix, we're trying to figure it out. Again, it's not a freedom soft issue. It's that it's the carriers, it's AT&T, Verizon's and it's Twilio. Everybody's trying to figure out what's supposed to happen because there is a certain date on October or September, August one or whatever it was. And they keep on moving the goalposts to keep on changing the rules. So just keep on giving freedom soft, whatever it is that they say that they need, they will do their best to get back to you. And the other thing is you can still make phone calls inside of freedom. So if you need to send texts, use Google Voice or use your cell phone. All right. I mean, if you try to switch to bumper or call rail or any RingCentral, any of these other ring lists or VoIP, VoIP voice over Internet protocol, phone numbers, whatever the Internet phone numbers, you'll have to jump through the same hoops. It's maddening and it's frustrating. We feel your pain. Just be patient. If you want a quick freedom, stop. Go ahead. I'm just saying you can have the same problem somewhere else. All right. You're copping these properties. I want to ask you this because sometimes I'm always wrestling with this. I'm looking at a property, looking at the soles, and you see a bunch of really cheap sold and a bunch of more expensive premium sold. Right. And somewhere in the middle. And I'm always thinking, well, okay, at what price should I sell it for? Should I try to sell it for where these cheap comps are at, or should I try to sell it for where these higher priced comps are at? What's your philosophy on that?

Eric: Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think it depends a little bit on the market, right? You get a good idea. So one of the things that I would do when I am doing and this is kind of taking a step back a little bit, but when I'm doing some of the market research with the different markets, I want to go into, one of the things that I'll do is I'll sort of take a look at first and foremost, what's the total comps or what's the total property sold in 90 days for that market. So let's say it's a county for me that's got to be at least 60. If it's not even 60, I'm really not a bother. But if there's at least 60 in the county that's sold in the last 90 days, I'm interested. But then real quick, what I'll do is I'll actually look at, okay, how many active listings are currently and then how many stored properties in the last year have there been? And really what I'm trying to understand is like how much inventory is in this county, right? So often there's about a year's worth of inventory. And so obviously I don't want to wait a year to sell a property, but that gives me a little bit better idea of like how quickly properties are churning through. And that's why I say I don't know that I necessarily need to be the lowest price one, if I know that while there's only six months of inventory in this market, I'm okay with being a little bit more kind of in that middle area. Like you were saying, Joe, I don't have to be kind of on the very bottom there. But then another thing that I will continue to say this. I know we're not all in the same boat in this sense, but I really leverage my agents, my real estate agents that I work with. I build a rapport, I build a relationship with them, that if I'm ever struggling, I'll just send it over to them. I'll just say like, Hey, give me your best judgment. And sometimes, like this morning, I got I have an agent in Arizona who said, Jeez, these are all over the place. He's like, I probably just recommend this, right? And so even he's a little wishy washy on what it is. But I would say that was probably one of the biggest things for me. And just kind of understanding like what is a total inventory churn, if you will, that will sort of help dictate to like where I think it might be listed out.

Joe: Yeah, I would say for me, like when I first came out with the course. By the way, everybody, I'm updating the I forgot to mention this. I'm updating the entire land course in a couple of weeks. And you guys, since your students, you already have it, you get you will get the updated version of it, but I'm going to be teaching it live for over six weeks and I'm going to be doing it releasing a module on a Tuesday and doing an extra coaching call on a Thursday on top of this one. So I'll be sharing more information about that. I'm redoing the whole course because I'm going to be simplifying everything. But one of the things I've simplified Eric and I want to know your feedback on this is I've been looking out what can I sell this property for, right? Like, just sometimes it's a gut check. It's just looking at the sold is looking at the act because I'm thinking, all right, I want to sell this thing quickly. I want to sell it in one or two months with a realtor. And I love that you're using realtors. I want to sell this thing quick. So what would I need to price that? If somebody is looking for a property in this area, what would make this deal attractive? Like, Oh my gosh, I've got to get this thing. I got to go buy it right now. And I come up with that number and sometimes I'll look, sometimes I'll first look at the actives and then look at the sold. But I figure if I'm going to sell it for 20, cool. I want to make and then I work backwards. I say, All right, I'm a seller for 20. I want to make at least ten grand. So I'm going to offer that. Then that brings that down to ten. I want to pay a realtor two grand, so that brings it to eight. I'm going to have, you know, 1500 and closing cost. That brings it to 6500. I maybe have 500 for top four photographer, whatever. That brings it down to 6000. Boom. That's my offer. 6000. I'm not doing anymore the percentage of what I think it's worth down, although that works. But like just working the numbers backwards and then looking at okay, so if I'm going to offer $6,000, what going to the sold comps now and looking at that. All right. What are the what are the cheapest properties selling for? And a lot of times those cheap properties are what wholesalers like you and me are buying the properties for. Right. But those aren't necessarily the prices that we're selling them to retail buyers. But so anyway, that's kind of what I've been doing and it's once you figure this out and you and you're Yeah, and you give yourself permission to make mistakes and you refuse to let yourself fall into analysis paralysis where you're just overanalyzing it, this 3 to 5 minutes come up with offers pretty quick.

Eric: Yeah, yeah. I think this is one of the reasons why I loved or I was listening to your podcast a year ago, right? This is one of the reasons why I loved this this vehicle, because it felt so safe. Like, listen, if you make the wrong offer, the market's going to tell you. And if you do it the right way, like you teach, you're not out anything. If you have to cancel the contract, sure, you might have a hurt feelings from a potential seller. Right. But you're not out any money. You're not you're not stuck illegally to the piece of land, all of that. And you learned a really big lesson. Right. And so I think that that's the other thing, too, is just, of course, do your best. But I probably make I would say I probably make seven or ten offers a day and I have been for quite some time. And so, yes, of course it's easier for me, but that's just because I've just done them so much right. And so I remember in the very beginning last January, thinking, Well, I know if this is even accurate. Right. And the reality of it is, is like, you'll know, like you'll know and you'll be better the next time you make an offer. Right. So I totally agree with you. I think don't put too much stress. Don't put too much weight on that offer. You'll learn, you'll know.

Joe: The other thing I say is, you know, you might look at price what Prycd has to offer. Always take that with a grain of salt. You want to look at the comparables on Zillow or Redfin. But take a look at what Prycd says. Take a look at what you're looking. What would you come up with from the actives and then the sold? And then if you've got two or three numbers, just go with the lower one, right? Just go with the lower one, send it out and do it. All right. Let's talk about follow up. Are you doing any follow up with your old leads?

Eric: Yes. So that's actually and I like again, as you go, as you scale and as you go longer, you'll change that process. So if I remember right, then I may be wrong about this, but I know. So again, I used obviously FreedomSoft and there are some things already baked into that which I really appreciate it. Right. And using just kind of vacant land freedom soft. And if I remember right, it was only up to like this third follow up offer and then it stopped. And by months three or four, I realized, well, this feels wrong. I'm not standing ball ups anymore. They're just beggars done. And so naturally I added through that through the entire year. Right? So every month I will follow up. But here's the thing that I recently ran into million couple of months ago is I would be sending off offer number nine is somebody who has never expressed anything other than the initial interest nine months ago. And I kind of saw it and this is costing me about a dollar every time I mailed in this offer. I'm never hearing anything from them. So I changed my process a little bit. Basically what I'll do is I'll send a follow up offer every month for three months, and then a months thaw is sort of my decision, or I've built back this in the freedom software that passed on month four is now one. Have they expressed any interest at all? If not, then what I do is I just send them a follow up letter. Hey, we talked a few months ago. You're interested in selling or just curious if you still own the property? And if so, are you still interested?

Joe: Is that what you say?

Eric: No, that's actually a letter like all direct mail to rocket print or sorry click to mail that letter. Most of the time I don't get a response. They've probably already sold it or they're just not interested in more. But that sort of saves me money. It saves me time from following up with people who really aren't interested anymore. The other thing I'll do is maybe we aren't too far off base, and so it's been three months, so I'll recall it, and if it's a significant change, I'll send them another offer, a new offer. If it's not a significant change, then usually what I'll do is I'll send them that follow up letter again. And then I think the other thing that I do as well, and I'm not afraid of doing that, but I really was in the beginning, is I will it takes a lot for me to mark somebody as a deadly that's somebody who has basically said like, don't ever contact me again. This is ridiculous. But if I'm let's say, $25,000 off, what I'll do is I'll just kind of bark like cold. Not interested. Follow up in three months. So that's another task. And. Right. Okay. There's no point in me following up in a month. I'm probably just going to check them off anyways. They're not going to change their mind that quickly, but they might in three months. And so I'll just follow up with them at three months. So I bring that all up because again, as you as you go longer and as you scale a little bit, you're going to want that to work to what works with you, right?

Joe: Yeah, I like that. I mean, you can you could change you could add in to the workflow automation and freedom sought after offer. Number three, just have it create a new task in three months to send another offer or send them a just a generic letter. And one of the cool things too, if you if you did this, Eric, you could create what's called a mail sequence inside of freedom sort and you could assign them to a mail sequence that every 90 days it sends them a letter or a postcard so you can set it up where, you know, in three months it sends them just a regular letter. The next three months later, it sends them a postcard. So you could put them into an automated follow up sequence with direct mail using freedom stopped if you wanted to, and you could stop at any time, right? Yeah. That's awesome. Follow ups important. And the more you do this, the longer you do this, Eric, you're going to get more and more deals from that follow up, I'm sure. Do you do any voicemails to your old leads to?.

Eric: I don't. Not right now, no.

Joe: You should think about that. You could do something like slide broadcast. Yep. Or just slide dial one at a time. You know, I was thinking about this the other day when one of the. I learned a lot of what I'm doing now from a guy who was an investor that I met at a boot camp. I was going to somebody land a boot camp, and I was talking to the guy in the back who's done a lot of deals now. I was like, What are you doing, man? How are you doing this? And he said, Well, it's simple. You know, I just I send a letter or postcard, send a voicemail a couple of times a week. I listen to all my voicemails, I send them an offer, and then I send them a text saying, Hey, you should get an offer in the mail in a little bit. And then two weeks later I'll send them a voicemail and two weeks later I send him another offer. And then two weeks later, I send him a voicemail. So every two weeks he's just doing this for an I'll remember how long. That's brilliant. I love that. So then I started doing that. Now, one of the things that we do sometimes, not all the time, usually I was do this more when my boys were helping me is a task would come up two weeks later to send them a slide dial. And so we would do slide dial through the FreedomSoft number to leave them a voicemail. It just would stand as it was personalized. Hey, Jim, this is Joe. Just following up with the offer I sent to you for your 2.6 acre lot in Jackson County. Just wanting to know if you got my offer, If you had any questions, let me know. It was just a voicemail. And that way to you know, you can leave a voicemail at 6 a.m. or nine or 10 p.m. if you want. You could also, if you wanted to make it generic, you could do slide broadcast where you could download once a month. Just download all of your old leads that are marked as, I don't know, your status could be called follow up. Right? And you can just download all of them into a spreadsheet. Then you upload that spreadsheet into slide broadcast, but you'd have to record a generic voicemail. So it'd have to be, Hey, this is Eric with Land Holdings. Just following up with that offer I sent you a little while ago about your vacant lot. If you've sold it yet, not at all. Let me know. I'd love to chat with you. My phone number is this so Try to make it personal. But you can't call him by name. And you can't. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, for sure. And then if you spread out the follow up every three months instead of every month in terms of the direct mail, it's. That'll be good.

Eric: Yeah, for sure. I like that idea.

Joe: Awesome. All right, let's talk about realtors. You use realtors to sell all your deals?

Eric: I do.

Joe: How many different counties have you done deals in those years?

Eric: Well, the counties that I've actually done deals in, where I am in looks like eight. I've got under contract and closed in eight different counties.

Joe: All right. How did you find the realtors in those eight different counties?

Eric: I think that method has changed a little bit, too, as well. I mean, what I do now is I can pretty. Simple. I will go find my property and Zillow or Redfin or wherever. It's whatever works the best. And I'll sort of zoom out a little bit and find any realtors that have sold within the last year any properties within that area. Right? To me, that's worked the best because they're already pretty familiar with that area. They've sold at least one property in the last year in that area. Of course, I'm trying to find an agent who was maybe sold more than one property, but really that's just my initial reach out. I just I shoot them an email to say, Hey, you know, I'm entering this this new market. I'm a national land investor, really looking to find a partner in the multiple deals that I bring there to help me sort of, you know, list these and sell these on a pretty quick, quick pace if you're interested. Give me a call. Let's chat a little bit more. And I'd say that that, you know, I probably send five or six emails and I get one or two people reaching out to me and.

Joe: You're not even calling.

Eric: Listen, I'm not even calling them. I like I said, I love it.

Joe: I love it. You're so lazy, Eric.

Eric: You know, I've been thinking about how do I have a I have a family member who is a real estate agent here locally who really loves what I'm getting into. And I've even thought about how do I leverage her, And so I don't even have to talk to agents at all. I can just have her do that work for me because I think I'm an honestly, that's not what I'm good at, right? I am good at the systems piece. I'm good at sort of the overall strategic business piece. How do we scale, how do we do those things? I can absolutely hop on the phone and talk to people, but it's just not what I enjoy. So it's sort of like if I can build a business where I don't have to do that, I can minimize that, then I will.

Joe: Yeah, one of these days you're going to get an assistant who can do those kinds of calls for you, right? Maybe a local assistant could be somebody that, you know, you pay the minimum wage and give them a percentage of the profits. Exactly. But that way, you know, they can be the one to call the realtors. They can be the one who makes those phone calls that you hate to make. That's so funny. And yeah, so here's the deal to some of you are listening to this. Maybe you can't afford the marketing that Eric's spending. Yeah, but you can get on the phone. You know, Eric could do more deals. Yes, he could buy them cheaper if he was willing to get on the phone and talk to people. But for him, it's like, I don't want to do it. I totally understand. I'm in the same boat. Right? Fortunately for me, my acquisitions guy, Matt, he's he doesn't mind. Get on the phone and talk. And so, you know, you might go from one deal out of every 30 offers to one out of 15 offers. Get accepted when you talk to them. But that means you got to do a lot of talking. And for some guys, you know, you might English might be a second language for you, right? You might be in another country, you might have bad Internet, not good enough Internet to make phone calls. You know, you might have a stuttering problem. So there you could still do deals, is still make money without talking to people. The key to it is consistency. I do a lot of marketing, make a lot of offers. So you said you were making 5 to 7 offers today, is that right, Eric?

Eric: Yeah.

Joe: Yeah, that's good. It's a lot. That's 25 to 35 offers a week.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, I think I'm averaging in the last couple of months. I'm averaging Yeah, it's about 29 offers a week.

Joe: I love it. I can't wait for you to test the range postcard. I don't think you'll get I don't think you'll get a higher response rate. It might actually be a little less. But the quality of the leads you're going to find are you're going to be really good. Yeah. Okay, cool. One more question I got is when you're looking for a state or a county to go into, what are some of the things you look for?

Eric: Yeah, for sure. So I think this is where I differ a little bit from what you had originally talked about in sort of your core. So I know a lot of folks go for more of like the rural, slightly larger acreage. You're looking for folks who, you know, recreationally or camping or whatever reason they want to use that land. I focus more towards infill lots. So I'm really looking for those people who want to build, you know, build a house. And so really when I go out there. But with that said, the messaging which I find sort of the markets I don't think necessarily changes or differs too much. So really what I'll go out there and do is just recently in the last couple of months I've actually got out and started to use list source to just give me a broad overview of what it says. The most popular counties are sold cars within the last 90 days. And then what I will do is I will then go out to once again Zillow and I will just type in that county and Zillow and change my criteria. Personally. My criteria is just again, anything that sold in the last 90 days, anything that is $25,000 or more. So I'm not super interested in their lower purchase price properties. Very recently I started choosing a minimum acreage of 0.2 acres. So that's just because I stumbled. I got into a couple of markets out a lot. I was like .06 acre lot state just really weren't worth my time. And again, you kind of waste money on those mailers when in reality you kind of wish you didn't have to be those. So and then basically what I'll do is I'll just like I said, I'll I'll make sure I know there's at least 60 comps in the last 90 days. If there is, then I'll do a little bit more digging from an inventory standpoint. But then I just go pop over to price and I basically set my criteria, that same criteria. And again, one of the things for me that I noticed, I guess, and maybe it's worth saying, is that I have moved into a place where ifs and market under my criteria doesn't have, I would say at least 2500 listing. I like 2500 properties on a list. I probably won't mail them. And that's just because I learned from my experience that I've emailed lists that are like counties that are only 500 records and I didn't get a deal and now I have nothing else to build off it. And so it's sort of like, well, I was kind of always like, I can't even mail the other house in the county. And even worse, let's say I did potentially get one deal and now I've got to build a rapport with an agent who's really going to only help me with this one deal, or I'm never going to talk to them again because I'm never I'm not going to do any more business in that county.

Joe: And it's a lot harder to get comps.

Eric: Yes, exactly. That's another big piece, too.

Joe: All right. I want to I want to show you guys something what Eric was just talking about here. Hold on one second to talk to you. Let me let me open this up. Show you what I just did here. All right, come on, now, open with Google sheets. Okay. So I went into we're talking about finding those markets and I just picked Georgia at random. Okay. So you can create a free account at list source. We're going to pretend like we're buying a list. You need to create a free account of list source. And I go right here to create your own. Go to geography. And for geography, I'm going to click state. Maybe you can tell me if this is how you do it or not. I'm going to go to Georgia now. I don't know if you're in Georgia or not. I don't know. But it doesn't matter. What doesn't matter. Go to property. I'm going to go to property type. I'm going to choose vacant land. All right. Now I'm going to go to last market sale date last three months, 1600 in the last three months, Georgia, last three months. Vacant land. Boom, boom, boom. All right. Now, is there anything else in here I'd want to I care about? But, yeah, I don't care if it's quarter acre lot, 20 acre lot. I'm just looking for all the vacant land that sold in Georgia in the last 90 days that is in public records. And see what we having I'm a click on options to do corporate owned no preference I don't care if an LLC bought it or not so there's 2600 in the last three months. That's pretty good. Is that better than other states? I don't know. But I'm going to pretend like I'm purchasing the list and I'm going to do purchase partial list and I'm going to do, by the way, just well, I'll show that to in a minute. I'm going do custom selection and then group properties by county. And here I've got Georgia for some reason has 146 counties in it. And these you can see all the sales by county in here and then you can export this to a spreadsheet. So I opened up I'll open this up in a spreadsheet. I'll show you kind of what I did. By the way, though, you can see there's 2600 right here. I'm going to say click right here, remove duplicate property mailing addresses. Please click on Recalculate. What did I do there? Okay, I'm going to say all doom boom remove duplicate. Most of it. Yeah. Dropped it down from 2600 to 2400. So that means there's 2400 different buyers who bought vacant land. And if you wanted to, you could go back to refine your search and you can say under options, you could say corporate owned only absentee owners, corporate owned only pretend like you're purchasing the list and there's 89. Let me remove duplicates. There's 52. That can't be right. I'm I did something wrong there. All right. But anyway, regardless, here is the list of all of the counties in Georgia. All right. I'm just going to move things around a little bit. So the count and the county is right there. Okay. I'm going to sort this right here. I'm going to sort this from high to low. So the number one county is Chatham. I believe that's how it's pronounced. Maybe Chatham County, then Fulton and Cobb. And now these are I already know, Atlanta. But let's just look at percentages this divided by that. So 11% of the vacant land that was bought in Georgia was Biden, Chatham County. I'm going do something here. Two, six, four, seven. Okay. And in this county and Glenn, 2.19%. And then I'm going to do what's called the cumulative percentage. All right. So now these four counties are where 29% of all of the activity is happening in Georgia, 33% is happening. So instead of targeting all 240 something counties, you could target just them, the ones that have the most activity. Now, I don't care if Chatham or Fulton or Cobb are these areas that have a lot of big two acre, five acre recreational vacant lots. I don't care. I'm just looking, where is the demand? I'm following the money, remember? Success leaves clues. And so if we go into Chatham County, how you pronounce it, by the way, anybody. Let's look at Redfin. Chatham County, Georgia. Well, it's near Savannah. Isn't that interesting? It's not even at lab. All right, let's go here from red saying, I'm going to go to land, only I want sold and then I'm going to go down here. Sold in the last three months, 62 vacant lots. That's a good number for me. I'm happy with that. But it is interesting. That number is so different than what list source is giving me, isn't it? Last three months. Right. So the what the difference might be is list source isn't classifying vacant land the same as what Redfin is classifying vacant land, but it doesn't kind of matter. But let's look at Fulton. One of the things you'll notice also hundred and 54. So according to Red saying there's more vacant land being sold in Fulton County than there is in Chatham. So something's different wrong with the data in Chatham. But find it, there's still a lot of activity there. That's all I care about. Let's look at Cobb County. Remember, Fulton is 154. Let's look at Cobb County, 59. These properties are going to be selling for a lot more, but sort it from price low to high. But you still look, you can still buy these lots for 19, 20, 25, 27. And guess what? If you get an old vacant lot under contract in this county, your profits are going to be much higher. So let's say as go, let's look at Cobb County. What kind of list can we get in Cobb County or what was that other county? Let's do that one instead. Fulton County, that's in the heart of Atlanta, isn't it? Let's just do it again. Fulton County, Georgia. Yeah, that's the heart of Atlanta right there. All right. Let's go to price type in Fulton County, Georgia. I do these I do these acreage increments, minimum secondary earn are 0.2, 1.01.02 increments. 1.012.010.1 increments. 2.01 to 20.011 acre increments. Oops. All right, now I'm going to scroll down. I only want out of county owners exclude people who live in that county and I want to make some sure they. What's your criteria, Eric, for when they bought it before.

Eric: I'll do, typically I'll do five years.

Joe: All right. Five years. So they bought it before October 11, 2018. Let's see how many we get. This is a very densely populated metro area, isn't it? Yeah. Now, maybe there there's some inner city properties here. I don't know. Well, look, there's 4000 records. I can sort this from high to low. Most of them here. All this is interesting for data tree owner records. Most of them are between 2 to 3 acres. 3 to 4 acres, 4 to 5, 1 to 1.11, 2 to 2.23. In most metro cities, usually the largest number are the little infill lots. Yeah. Cool. Now, you might be you might be looking at this thing. All right, I'm going to go into this county, but there are a ton of let's look at the cheapest ones here. Price low to high. Yeah. Some of these vacant lots are selling for 6200 bucks. You could even go into list source and do the same thing I just did. But then when you go to purchase partial list here, you do custom selection and you do instead of county, you do it by zip code. So you search first for county, you then break it down by zip code and then it'll tell you, okay. And Fulton County, these are the top ten of the 30 zip codes that you should target. And then you can you can get list from price if you really want to narrow it down that much to the zip code level, not just the county level. But here's the thing, guys, I want to show this to you, because there are let's just look at our numbers. Let me get a spreadsheet here. And Eric, you can kind of help me with these numbers based on what you've seen. So the size of the list is 4087. After I remove duplicate owners, government owners, owners that live out of the country or whatever, I might I might decrease that list by 25%. So I'm going to download about try that again equals 70 times. So I might download a 3000 records. All right. And if my average response rate is 1%, I'm going to get how many leads am I going to get? 31 leads. And if my average leads to deal, oh, I'm going to have to go here in just a minute, pick up My daughter is 30, then the number of deals is equals that divided by that. So I'm going to do 1.02 deals, right. My average net profit before direct mail that she's Eric's numbers of 8000 bucks. Mine's about 10,000. So my profit will be 8000 times 1.2, but my profit will be about 8100 bucks. All right. Now, how much does it cost to send 3000 letters I'm spending if I'm in freedom, stop them spending $0.52, and then the list costs $0.08. So I'm spending about $0.60 per postcard. So my mail is costing six. Sense times. So here's what I want to show you. Would you spend 1800 dollars to make 80 $100 Your profit after direct mail is 6300 bucks. That's really good. And this profit, again, is after closing costs, after realtor commissions, after photographer. Do you take pictures of your properties, Eric?

Eric: My agents do, yes.

Joe: Okay, perfect. These are the numbers. Now, what if you're not lazy like me and Eric? We like to talk to sellers. You're going to drop this number. Average number of leads, maybe to 20, which means you're going to make that month $10,000 profit. You're going to do one and a half deals on average. So over two months you'll do three deals where we will only do two deals. Makes sense. And your net profit might be up, might go up, might be less. Whatever. But this is this is a numbers game. It's a numbers game. And if you send the range Coast Guard, Eric, and you talk to them, you'll be like we are. And get maybe one deal out of every 15 leads that you're getting work. In some markets, this is crazy and I hesitate to talk about it. We're getting one offer out of every eight accepted because we're talking to them first. So you could be doing out of this 3000 postcards a month that you're sending. For example, you could be pulling one or two could be willing to deals out of it. And if your average net profit is ten grand, well, okay, So you could get a spreadsheet to tell you anything you want to tell you. That's not my point in telling you, showing you all this. But the point is, number one, rules make offers, make offers, make offers in this business. Who has questions for Eric? Let's go and answer any questions that you guys have. I'm going to need to leave in about 10 minutes to pick up my daughter and drop my other daughter off. So who's got some questions for Eric right now? Eric, if you didn't see the chat? Just so you know, too, I'm going to ask Eric to do some more coaching goals for me. And I'm excited about that because again, Eric has a different perspective than I have. I've been doing deals for a long, long time, and sometimes it's easy for me to forget what it was like to get started. And sometimes I blow off, I blow off, you know, the fears and the anxieties and insecurities you might have as a beginner, as Eric can relate much more to that. So I thought this would be cool if Eric can help me with some of my coaching calls, who would be interested in having Eric here more often answering your questions. And I have a sneaky little reason why I'm doing this. You want to know what it is? Some of you guys might want to bring your deals to Eric and partner with him on some of your deals. What? Yes, I think I'm excited about that. I'd like to see Eric do more deals. Some of you guys might be like, Hey, this is my first deal. You just look at it, Will you help me with this deal? So I'm really trying. I think this is exciting because I want to grow this build this community up where we can do deals with each other, right? We can lend money on deals or we can partner with people on deals. Maybe Eric would want to just buy your deal from you and sell it with owner financing or, you know, whatever. So I'm excited about this, having Eric being more involved so we can kind of just grow the community and make it more active and that kind of good stuff. Mark said, No, he's too lazy.

Eric: That's my goal. Mark, didn't you just ask me right above that, too, where my goals just keep being lazy. How do I make more money and continue being lazy?

Joe: That's good. But I answer that question a little bit. I'm gonna check on my daughter, make sure she's ready. But what are some of your goals?

Eric: I think I something that I'm glad you asked, Mark, because I think a lot of people need to be really clear on that for me. Like I said, when I took the year off, part of it was because I wanted to really focus and plan on how do I build this business. But another part of it was I, like many people that are caught up in the rat race and you start to mistake sort of making a living as making a life. And so I have three young kids, I'm married, and I kind of thought, you know, this is going down the track I don't want to go. And what I really love is like many of us probably do, it is more control over my time, more control, more freedom over my time. And so hence why I really don't want to build a business where now all I do is work ten, 12, 14 hours a day. I want to build a business where I can wake up in the morning. I guess the first thing I do, I wake up at 530 and I come down here and start to work because I have to. I just enjoy it. But after a couple of hours, I'm ready to be done. And so for me, that was the biggest thing, was like my biggest goal was how do I create this lifestyle where I'm fine doing this for the rest of my life? If if I could if I could work 2 hours a day every day for the rest of my life and then have the freedom to do whatever else I want to do, that's what I'm going to do from a financial standpoint. Really, my goal this year was how do I replace my income? And like I said, I I'm you know, I'm there. I'm right there where I feel like I've sort of built this machine that I can consistently bring in about three deals a month that provides my salary of what I had before I quit. Now, next year, my goal is to replace my wife's income, which is actually not as much as mine was. So hopefully that's a little bit easier. But it's really a game of how do I start to get more and more freedom for us as a family. So like I said, at some point we can kind of do. What we want when we want. And I still have the pleasure of working. I realized that very early on this year when I first started, I wasn't getting a lot of leads and I thought, Shoot. I think I made a mistake. I only had 20 minutes of work every day and this is very unfulfilling and but is now finally picked up to a point where I feel very full with the amount of time that we put in the work. But like I said, I also love the freedom that it gets me.

Joe: I love it. Any questions for Eric? I want to we're going to wrap this up here in a minute. All right. Hey, listen, Eric, what if we did this. I have to leave to go get my daughter. Yeah. Can you just finish this call? I'm going to go ahead and make you the host. All right. You're familiar resume and how it all works. Yeah, sure. All right. Gail is one of my VAs. Hi, Gail. Everybody say hi to Gail. She's awesome. She's here to help. All right. If you need any help. And Louis' here also cool. All right, so Gail and Louis are here. I'm going to have to go. I'm going to make you the host, and then I've got to go to pick up my daughter. And people are asking good questions. Let's just go another 15 minutes or so, if that's alright with you, Eric. For sure. We're sorry. All right, Eric, Thank you. We'll talk soon. So you guys, everybody. And I'm going to assign Eric the host. Here we go.

Eric: So, Leeanne, I just saw your question to what success factors in your little mental reading morning mindset routine system. Early on, yes, that was kind of one of the things I focused on a lot was I read a lot. I do a lot of I have sort of a morning routine. But to be honest with you, it's really just the consistency. It's really just waking up and like I said, I enjoy it. So it is a little easier for me. It doesn't take discipline to wake up and just get straight on the computer and work. But I literally every morning will wake up. Usually it's between anywhere between 530 and seven, or I will usually put in about an hour of work before I have to take my kids to school. And then I'll come back and sort of finish the work off. Just I have more to do. But it's just the consistency. It's just every single day doing the work that I need to do. So I will literally go straight to the any new leads that came in in the last 24 hour period. I will process them. I will send new offers, I will do my follow up texts, I will do my follow up mailers, my follow up offers, and then I'll go to my email and I got emails from people I sent offers to the day before or from my agents or from a title company. If there's anything like that that I have to do, I do it. But I honestly don't know what any of you are familiar with a gentleman named Alex Hermosa, but he is a very successful entrepreneur and I like he's posted in his different social media areas every now and then that so many people get caught up on, like the morning routines of successful people. And the reality is just like, just do the work, just do it right. Like just go out there and do it, you know, like without success. And I would just add the consistency piece to it. So those are your albums. Brendan I see your question too. So have you thought about marketing or small insults to small builders in your market? Yes. This is something where I'm sure some of you have noticed too as well. I'm in Florida. I'm pretty heavy, heavy in Florida. What I started to realize a few months ago was that I was getting beat out or really I was getting beat up by a lot of people. But I started to hear from my agent and just potential sellers that they were getting offers for above market price. And that's not rare when you have a very high demand area. But I started to realize that a lot of the people that were doing making those above market price offers were builders. And so that made sense to me, Right? It's they're not making their money on the land, they're making their money on building. And so for them, they're willing to take a little bit of a profit off the top to buy that property for a little bit more money to then build a home and probably sell it and still make a decent amount of money. So I have in a couple of different markets. I have just through coincidence, run into some builders who have said I own this property. Yes, but I'm not willing to sell it. But again, you have something to sell to me. I'd be more and more than interested. And so I have sort of dabbled in that a little bit. But it's not something it's not something that I have necessarily completely focused on or have, you know, kind of put a lot of focus and energy into. It's just something that's come up that I've tried to take advantage of it as I could stand or how I feel about wetlands property. I avoid wetlands property. I it's funny because in the very beginning of this, this business, I was talking to a friend probably three weeks after I had started doing mailers. And I just remember this because she had asked me like, how how's business going? And I said, It's great. I've got seven contracts already. I look back on that now. All seven of those contracts were wetland property. That was before I knew that sort of to avoid wetland. Now I think Joe says this and I totally agree there's a buyer for everything. So if you have a wetland property, it's not that you wouldn't be able to sell it. It's just for me, I don't want to spend a ton of time and energy and most of the time I don't want it to be I don't want something to be on the market for a year before I find a buyer. I'm just really not that interested. But I would not be surprised if there are investors or land flippers out there who almost solely focus on wetland properties, because I do know that there's buyers out there who want them. Again, it's just really not my cup of tea. The thing I will say about wetlands too as well, like in Florida, I think this is true for obviously, but Florida specifically wetlands is pretty restrictive, right? I mean, it's pretty much you can't build unless you do a lot of mitigation, which costs a lot of money. But if it's in a floodplain, then there's some differences there. And it's not like a it's not like a make or break situation. But in other states, if it's in a floodplain, that is a pretty big deal. So I just bring that up because it's anybody's story in the new markets, new states and counties. That's another advantage of reaching out to a local agent to sort of ask, you know, what should I stay away from? So in Texas and in the state that I've recently gotten involved in, and my agent had said that, look, if it's wetland, it's a no go regardless. But if it's a floodplain that's still really restrictive, you can put a septic. And if it's not hooked up to public utilities, you can't put a septic, can't put a well. And so that's different than Florida. And so anyways, I just bring that up because, you know, there's going to be those specific properties where you just don't really necessarily want to waste a lot of time and money trying to sell. Yeah, see, so Mark said Jose and him sold. I think that's the thing, right? I avoid them because I think more often than not it's just not really worth my time. But I can absolutely see you saying, Hey, Mr. Seller or Mrs. Seller, this wetland property or this property in a wetland, it's really not going to sell. I'm really not interested, but honestly, if you sell it for 500 bucks, I probably take it off your hands. And I bet often a lot of people would say, I'll go ahead, I'll take 500 bucks, and then you can find somebody who was willing to buy it or, you know, five grand or something like that. So you make the money there. Again, I think we just you make your choice and we're out of the business that you want to build. And for me, I try really hard not to get distracted. So I'm really kind of focused on what I what I focus on primarily. And so any of that kind of stuff, it's like, wow, there's money to be made there. The previous question of like, do you partner with builders? It's like, absolutely, there's money to be made there, but I'm just not at that point yet where I feel like I can kind of sway my focus a little bit and get distracted. Lee And you said, how do you screen a realtor who has ready buyers? So for me, the realtors is is interesting. I posted something in the Facebook group maybe a few weeks ago on this too as well. For me, I really like to partner with a realtor who actually works with in most of the state. So I've been fortunate to find an agent in Florida, South Carolina, Arizona and Texans who work with most, if not all, of the state. And the reason I say that is just because it's a lot of work to build a good rapport with an agent, you might you might only do one or two deals with before you move on to another market. But like me, I've done nine deals in Florida, all with the same agent. Sure, she's probably not as much of an expert in northern Florida as somebody else would be who's located there, but she's good enough. The other thing that I really enjoy when I screen realtors is I want to make sure that they're, for lack of a better term, sort of a hustler. Like they want my business, they want to get it sold. They want to continue to get more deals with me. And so that all the agents I work with are sort of that way. They're very competitive, they're very aggressive almost. And I don't mean that towards like the clients are just aggressive in their mentality of they love this job, they love this. And that's if I'm working with an agent who's sort of like, I really only work between nine and five and you need something at 503. I'm not going to be available. I usually don't go for those agents. Hopefully that answers that question. Oh, I was just reading your comment there too, as well. Yeah, I think I think that's the other the other challenge too, as if you do get a contract that is wetland, you're going to have trouble finding an agent. If you're trying to use an agent to sell it, you're going to have trouble finding an agent who wants to work with you just because they know it's going to be valued less. And it's, you know, it may not be worth their time either. So one thing I was going to mention here, I'm happy to stay on for a couple more minutes, but like Joe mentioned, I'm on the Facebook page. Feel free to reach out to me. I'd be happy to kind of. I reached out to Joe, actually, and said, hey, you know, I've got a lot of people asking me questions and I am by no means an expert at all. I've only been doing this for ten months, but I feel like because I've sort of dove in head first, I've gotten a lot of lessons and I'd love to be able to help other people out as well as are trying to sort of build that foundation and sort of scale their business too as well. And so please, if you like, reach out to me. I would Facebook on tap you to hop on a phone, call and talk do something to as well. I've done that with a number of folks too and just let me know. You guys have any other questions? Well, I will let everybody else go. But again, reach out if you need anything. And I'm happy to be joining in on these phone calls and helping Joe kind of moderate them. So reach out to me on Facebook and yeah, we'll chat and you'll continue to hear from me, I know. Thanks, everyone.