Joe: What's up, Joe here from the Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast. And we have a great mastery episode today because we're going to be talking with a guy that I just met recently who's done hundreds and hundreds of deals from Europe, and he's done a lot of vacant land flips from Spain. He's from Germany, but he lives in Spain and this is crazy. I love this topic because I remember back the way this was 2010 or 11 when I first went to Europe with my wife and our four kids. That was 2012 is when it was my youngest daughter was a year or two old and went to Prague. We lived there for two and a half months doing deals from the Czech Republic in the United States. Now, we didn't I didn't start virtual wholesaling. I had learned of other people doing it, but here I was doing deals virtually and houses at the time, and I thought, well, why if I can do deals virtually anywhere in the United States from my basement office, why can't I do deals virtually from a cafe in Prague? And so I started doing deals there and it was awesome. I started documenting my journey. I started a little podcast in a website called Remote Property Flipping. At the time, it was a lot of work. It was it was more work documenting it than it was actually doing the stuff. So anyway, fast forward a couple, three years. I did a three month RV trip doing deals with my family in an RV. We homeschool our kids, we have a lot of freedom and then a year or two after that, we went back to Prague for another three months and we went to a lot of different countries. I did deals in about four different countries while living there. It was a blast. It was fun. And so I always like challenging the status quo and like, why can't you do deals from Europe, from Iceland, from Malaysia? I literally have students from probably 25. I counted one time and I forget the number, but about 20 different countries that I've personally coached do deals in the United States, houses and vacant land. So when I meet somebody like Robin, who has done over 500 vacant land deals, let's just say he's exaggerating a little bit. Let's just say let's cut that number in half. He's done 250 land deals. I see him rolling his eyes right now. He knows his numbers. But I'm just saying, like I want to if you don't believe me, just cut my numbers in half. Let's say he's only done 100 deals from Europe in the United States. What's your excuse? Right. Like, and if I could do it with four kids, what's your excuse? Why haven't you done any deals yet in your own backyard? I have a lot of students that I've coached that have English as a second language that, you know, they're from another country and maybe don't have the confidence level yet to maybe do deals or to talk to people. And you know what? You're out of excuses. It's done. It's finito, it's finished. We're going to be talking with Robin about that. How did he do all these vacant land deals from Spain with a German accent? He speaks good English. You'll meet them here in a minute. This is a cool topic. Don't you see why it's so cool? Because literally now there are no more boundaries. You can do this, no matter your education, no matter your income level, your socioeconomic status, your language, male woman or male or female, whatever. Right. Like you can do deals anywhere in the United States from anywhere in the world. All you need is a cell phone like this and a laptop. I don't even know if you need a cell phone anymore, but it helps. I don't even know if you need a laptop. Right. You could do it on an iPad or something crazy like that. So we're going to be talking about that. Now. This podcast is brought to you by my simple land kit dot com. It's completely free. Go there. You get my direct mail swipe flier file, you get my contracts that I buy and sell land with. You get my scripts that I talk to sellers with. You get a software and a calculator that I created that helps you analyze land deals and make offers for free. What, are you kidding me? Joe? Yeah, simple land kit, dot com. Go there. Because I've said this before, we are working on taking that kit that's free now and selling it later for maybe 727, 47, 97 bucks. It's just a cool way for me to give back, give you something helpful that's useful. After you go get that, I'm going to invite you to a class that I did that teaches you how to do vacant land deals at a much bigger scale. And in that program that I'm going to talk to you about at SimpleLandKit.com, we're going to offer to do it and set it all up for you and partner with you on deals if you're interested. So if you haven't already, go to Simple Land Kit.com, did I say it's free, simple land kit dot com. All right. The other thing, too, a lot of you guys are watching this on YouTube right now, or Facebook, maybe LinkedIn or Twitter. I don't know. But listen, I please like this video right now. Give me a thumbs up comment on this video. Feel free to share it. If you're not a subscriber to my YouTube channel, go there right now and subscribe to my YouTube channel. I love to hear from you. Get notified when new videos like this come out. I'm doing a lot more content now. I'm almost 100% recovered from my surgery, my heart surgery, and I am ready to go. I got so much good content coming out. You do not want to miss it and you can get it all on my YouTube channel. Also, if you're listening to this as an audio podcast, thank you so much. Appreciate it. So please go to iTunes. Leave me a review. Wherever you listen to this, subscribe to the show, leave a review. I've been doing this podcast since 2011. It's crazy awesome. In fact, I think later this week I'm going to be on a podcast about podcast, the guys interviewing me about how I've been doing, what I've been doing. And I remember when I started this podcast in 2011, I thought podcasts were dead back then. But no, they're not. They're still around. They're still doing well. Cool. All right, so go to SimpleLandKit.com check it out. And I think we should. It's done. It's time for me to stop talking. Right. I think we should bring Robin Seib in the house from the land bros. What's up, Robin?

Robin: Hey, how are you? Thanks. Thanks for having me, Joe. And first of all, I downloaded the simple land kit, right? And I've done a lot of deals already, but I learned a lot out of this. It's good. It's really good.

Joe: Can you believe I give it away for free? You know something's wrong with me, By the way, Everybody looking at my hat here is wondering what is Harding on there? And I know it's backwards where I've got my camera, but I just dropped my son off a couple of days ago at Harding University in Searcy, Arkansas. So that's why I'm wearing my hat anyway. Awesome. Robin, you're from Germany, right?

Robin: Born and raised in Germany. And meanwhile, I live in Spain and. Yeah, this is the reality, right?

Joe: What part of Germany were you born and raised in?

Robin: Oh, so nobody will know that. All the Europeans will know that because the city where I come from is really well known for football. I come from Dortmund and Borussia Dortmund. Everybody was there for soccer, right? So I need to say soccer, right? It's next to Cologne, like an hour away from Cologne. Right. Which more people now are 2 hours away from Frankfurt in the West Germany. Yeah.

Joe: Awesome. I've been to Germany many times. My, my wife has family from Image, which is in Bavaria, southern Germany. Right. And apparently the saying goes, you're Bavarian first and German second. Is that true?

Robin: It's a little bit like Texas, right? So the Bavarians are Texans, right? So when you ask a Bavarian, it takes anywhere to come from. They never say from the US or from Germany. That's I'm from Texas, so I'm from Bavaria. You're from Germany? Yeah, but, but obviously that's a true right.

Joe: Well, you're living in Spain. I love Spain. Been there many times as well. And Spain. Reminds me a lot of California. I'm assuming the weather's nicer there in Spain than it is in in Germany.

Robin: It's absolutely 250,000% better than in Germany. Right. So I look at Mallorca and the beautiful island of Mallorca. We have like a beautiful condo here. I'm in Palma de Mallorca. So what you don't see is I see the ocean there, the mountains there, the beautiful out on Old town. I'm over that. So yeah, it was not hard to to change. Right. And my fiancée, she's from California and she loves it here because she said it's like absolutely amazing, right?

Joe: I've been to Marbella a couple of times, Barcelona, and that's more the southern south. I forget where Marbella, isn't it? The south eastern part of.

Robin: Spain is on the south. Yeah, my base. Okay, so all those beautiful, beautiful to Barcelona, beautiful lot of good food. It's just like we've recently been there. We just were brought in your car down here from Germany, and we just took the ferry from Barcelona. That, like, a beautiful two days over there. Good for you.

Joe: All right, so what. What interested you in real estate in the United States and specifically land investing? What got you into that?

Robin: Well, I guess you like in the short, short clips of about this. So I'm in real estate every since, right? 12 years or 30 years. But I was until 2018. More on the up to 2018, more on the side of services for real estate. So I had like a construction company and like a lot of other companies related to real estate. And in 2018 I got 28 and I got burned out because of the So actually company was like three months in my room not talking at all like I was out of life, really not participating in life. And when I was out of business, I said, okay, you need to change. And then I met my, my, my today's business partner. He's really good friend to the mentor, her good friend, a dad and everything. And he came to me, said, Hey, Robin, I know you're afraid. You need to do something right now because I sold my company after that. And I said, You know, I don't know what. And he said, I start, sorry, real estate helped me. And we started slipping and we started flipping houses and I learned a lot about that. But I realized really soon how slipping in the classical ways you need to be a lot of there, right? And I do everything for freedom. And what I couldn't achieve with like how slipping was like to be vocationally free, right? So I was two months in Australia, came back and something my partner, he also the thing is not the right thing. And she said, Hey, wait, there's like somebody coming from the US talking about L.A. land deals of the US. And I said, I don't have a clue. And to be honest, I really didn't have a clue at this point. It was April 2020. Now February 20, 22 months prior to COVID, I had never been in the US At this point. I was rather hardly speaking the language and I had no clue what was going on. But I was sitting there and the state was talking. Flipping and about deeds and how to direct mail and how would you get the contract and do that. So simple. I mean, you know, there are a lot of people I have been in a lot of events like where people talked about how easy this business models are. So, you know, maybe 80% of what they sell is not or not the truth. So what I started with, 10% of what he's telling us there is right that we should do that. Right? So I came back from that event. So I know we need to do that. And then we founded our companies and I think we started on the 5th of April 2020 was last spring and 1st of April 2020. What happened? We hit the world, the whole world shut down. We were not able to fly to the U.S.. I had never been in the U.S., I had no clue what was what was going on. Right. Yeah. And we couldn't open bank accounts over there because we hadn't we couldn't go there to sign it. It was really Yeah, a lot of hurdles, let's say, like this. So we needed to go through. But today, three years later, I'm still here, right?

Joe: Yeah. Shout out to Jack Bosch to friend of mine. Mad, I have mad respect for Jack Bosch. I believe it was Jack, right. That was in Germany. Speaking about M&A investing. Really cool guy. I highly recommend you guys go check him out. Just Google Jack Bosch and. All right, so you heard it. I rewind a little bit. You were doing construction, but you'd never been to the U.S. What were you doing specifically for this company?

Robin: It was in my construction company. Yeah. Yeah. So we were we were in the window and door business. So we did, like, everything around windows and doors, right? And like, you know, like a Germany construction. It's a little bit different in the U.S. That's what I was was realizing over the past couple of years. Right. So we, we have brick walls everywhere. We have all buildings and really all buildings. And when I say really old buildings, they are hundreds of years old, right?

Joe: What were you doing specifically? Like, how are you bringing in business?

Robin: So what we did is we were I was always good at marketing and sales, right? So I had an idea of like, how could we get clients, how do we get projects? And but in the end, I mean, this is part of the story too. I was I was really running bankrupt in that year where I burned out and I just like didn't go in bankruptcy. And that moment right where I realized I will not go bankrupt, I just I broke down. Right. So but then this time I was out there, like on the construction side, I did literally everything from cleaning the whole way up to doing all the administrative stuff, selling, writing invoices, doing all the acquisitions, doing really everything right. This is, this is what I did there. Yeah, This is my background is marketing and sales. I so this was always my.

Joe: So you were bringing in new business on the Internet using online marketing strategies and kind of managing the operations of it, Right? Yeah. Okay. So then you started wholesaling houses. What was your involvement in that business? What did you do every day?

Robin: Oh, so it's not really a house. I was flipping right, read it out, flipping, not really wholesaling right. We did the whole thing about like acquisition, then the value app through any kind of rehab, right? And then the disposition. And I always said, well, mainly in the acquisition again. Right. And I'm doing the negotiations troubleshooting in between building the systems there. So this was like, like my thing, I think system building of some of the strengths I have. So I'm systematizing what I brought in there.

Joe: All right. So you got you heard about land and what interested you about land. Why or why do you find land is maybe simpler and easier than doing this with houses?

Robin: Okay, so I told you, I do everything for freedom, right? And for me, there are five types of freedom, and two of them are locational, locational and free and be free of time, free of impact, free of money or financially free. And, you know, the thing is, I was knowing, especially like being free of time and free, free and free up like my location, where like two things I can reach was house flipping. So I was always looking in other businesses too. I was running a coaching business too in that time, which I really like completely different. I was in multilevel marketing and all that, but you know, I like the creation part of business too. And this brought I'm always the creator, I'm always the I think how and why and how can we make it better and easier and faster. And, you know, and I mean, all this structures, I was never really at home. So I said, okay, what can we do? And to be honest, I believe in destiny, right? So land flipping came over my way in that moment where I needed that. I'm now I have to say, you made a shout out to Jack, and Jack is German, too. So without him, I couldn't have done that because I enrolled in that time with him in his coaching program. And he helped me a lot. Right? So it's big shout out to him because he helped me understanding the culture, the language, the he opened me his networks, right? I mean, networks are so important. He just like when I need to help. We said, Hey, ask this guy. Ask this guy, Ask this guy. So. But in the end it's I think I was always curious about like, how can you do more, How can you do more? And it's what I like about the U.S. And what absolutely thrilled me is and it's a good and maybe a bad thing, like everything is light and shadow, right? But it was absolutely thrilled me is in the U.S., like doing business. It's so much easier because everybody wants to do business. The sentence I hear the most is it's go on, make some money to get it right. And or you go to Germany. When you say that sentence, you look a little bit suspicious. Right. Applied to real car session yesterday in a restaurant. We were sitting next to two Germans and they were like, I would say they're rich fifties, and they obviously sold their business really successfully like three or four years ago. And it was like, you know, they were like really tough talking it down all the time. They made more than a few million, said a nice board, a nice house and all that. Right? And then we're talking, they're down talking, they're down in the US because it's like a German. You don't speak about success in the U.S. it's differently. And like how business is driven, it is differently or it's interesting. And this is what yeah, this is what I what I laughed about that. Right.

Joe: Okay, cool. I love that, too. I mean, the freedom I don't know if this is true, but in the French language there is not or was not a French word for entrepreneurship. And it seems to me and then a lot that I've been to Europe, you just don't have that level of interest in starting your own business, calling your own shots, being your own boss. And I don't know if, but there are a lot of people like you in Europe, in Asia, in South America, Right. That still have these desires inside of them of creating something, being producers, not just consumers. So that good for you, man. Kudos for you jumping on that and taking it and refusing to accept, you know, maybe any kind of cultural norms that were thrown your way. Right. So, all right, so land investing, how did you do your first few deals? What were you doing?

Robin: You want to hear the honest truth, right? Okay. Yeah. So on Joe, what do you think? How much time after that? Near or so. So after enrolling, how much time did I need to make my first? Come on. That was April 2020. Right. What do you think? How much time did I need?

Joe: Well, you know, if you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, you could probably do a deal in a couple three months. In 2 to 3 months.

Robin: A year, I needed a year. Because I was like, I'm always like, you know, I'm a contrarian. I always ask like, why? And I get maybe less with different. And so I didn't start there where the market side started on the other side, right? So I was asking everybody doing deals and Florida, I said, okay, let me go. Let's start five years away from Florida. I was watching State, so let's start in Washington State. I didn't manage to do a deal there. Right? I had no clue. And I think the biggest problem for me was in the beginning to understand really the culture and the how to talk to sellers. And I have like for me, a language barrier, too. I was hardly speaking English, right? So it was like really, really hard for me today sometimes. I had a conversation the other day was like a seller was my team together. I got an old guy from Deep southern Alabama or somewhere from the countryside, and after like 5 minutes I said, my relatives said, I don't understand. I saw it. I still that now. I think it was a couple of things. And then there was Kobe to write. A lot of things changed a little bit with Soviet, and that was going on too. But, you know, I what I experienced at that time were there was the greatness of coaching, right? It was like having a coach or coaches on your side. I brought you brought me through that time and never let me quit because after like six or seven months writing this question yourself and I enrolled was a lot of money. It was a team and all that, right? So I was catching myself is just the right thing we do there. And they just told me their story. So they're of couple of them which needed some time to succeed. Right? And then my first day come on, I tell that story to I made $0 and profit, right? Because I made everything wrong. You could do right? I was in California. It was three adjacent lots. I put them on three different contracts, eight, three times. That's six times closing starts. Closing cost three times a B is three times C, And from my 12 grand profits in the app, I owed $47. I called the guy from the title company and said, Hey, man, I just work for you. So I still give me some credit. And then he gave me $100 credit and sure, send me a check about $53. Right. But that's a story. See, you have that right. Yeah, this is how that worked out. But that was 2021 in April. And then we made another two deals that year. Last year we made around 300 turn around hundred properties. This year, 180 I think so far.

Joe: Are you just wholesaling them like flipping them fast?

Robin: Yeah. Meanwhile, so we do we, there are different strategies. Meanwhile we have like I know how it's about per chase. I learned that really early, right? Chase retail and this is one. Strategy for cheap lots. We did that for a while, like really lots under $10,000. We develop a process to just like churn them really fast through online marketing and all that, and we do the normal flipping, I would say between 10 to 34 or $500,000 where we just like flip them around to own them or just take a contract and wholesale the contract. And we do developments too. Right? We're now is on we signed a 600 house development in North Carolina that we do some subdivide it's we I'm currently like I bought a big commercial deal in Baker Texas right now it's another partner and yeah I would say and it was I think we play me the whole like bandwidth of land flipping when you wanted like this but it was a process to get there right and I have a good team and I love the challenges which are in that so yeah we do really everything.

Joe: How are you? Let's go back to your first year. You did maybe 70 deals in your first year. How are you finding those deals?

Robin: We just it's classic direct mail, right? Right.

Joe: So it's did you send in blind offers, blind offers or neutral letters?

Robin: We do blind offers. Well, we did blind offers. We saw always neutral letters. So we are on us. We switched some blind offers that we did. Again, neutral letters I last to today. I love to do neutral letters to pass areas To talk a little bit with the market. How are the people there? What are they getting? How well informed are they about their market? Right. Just to get an idea of how markets are working and to find that, then you'll find your sweet spots. Right. And then we just like scrape data and let them scrape. And this is an outsource process and we just get the data back. And then we sent direct mail to them and yeah, that's, that's how it works, right? Yeah.

Joe: Okay. So you do a mix. I do the same thing. You know, I'll send neutral letters, I'll send the check letter that looks like there's a check coming in, you know, which works really well. I even I'm now testing a postcard that has gives them a range I might be able to buy between this and this. I remember. I want to test this. I did this in houses and got tons of calls and a ton of complaints, but I got a lot of leads. Have you seen the third notice postcards?

Robin: No, I don't know what that is.

Joe: You guys can Google that listening to this later on. Third, just Google third notice postcard and it looks like it's just obnoxious and it gets a ton of calls. I've thought about doing that for vacant land, but I've tested it all. I like it all. I've done big deals and small deals and no deals. So I think it's just really important to kind of test this stuff as we go along. All right. So does it really matter? Does it just what matters is you're getting the mail out the door?

Robin: I think this is like the most important thing, right? When I learn something about entrepreneurship, like consistency, it's one of the of the key facts, Right? So the key thing to me to do, you need to be really consistent with that. What you're doing won't in the end you know you know this got the Goss bell like this how statistics are done and I was in my first year on the total wrong side of the statistics. Right. So I was like far away from average. I should have gotten the deal. But in the end, I got a ton of deals later on, right. With the same effort. So my numbers turned out on the long term. And this is what I really love about ladder flipping. It's a really predictable business. Once you know your numbers and you see when things go south a little bit or if things go better or worse, you see that real quickly when you know your numbers a little bit. Right. And it's really easy to trade them, right?

Joe: Yeah, Yeah, it is easy to track and it's important to track your numbers so you can see which counties are doing well, which marketing is doing well and shift and adjust. Do you still is direct mail still your favorite form of leads? Are you doing other things like texting or cold calling or Facebook ads?

Robin: Yeah, to be honest, like our business model shift model has shifted a little bit. So I don't have a really, really big focus on acquisitions. But what we do is we do like direct mail fill and we follow that up with more text messages and we follow that always with voice mail drops and have that in a circle. So it's going it's going down. But we do a lot of other deals too, where we partner with sell the last verse, right? Yeah, This is like a big marketing source. I'm too. So yeah, but direct mail is for, for our own personal acquisitions. I think the best thing still to do and it's always a reminder, right? And what I love about direct mail, what do you do like texting when you're doing like the voice blast, right? You always have a loss of leads. You don't do you don't reach the whole audience, right? You don't know how good. It's a steep price data you have and all that. And I love to speak to the whole market. Right? So and this is what you can do with direct mail, of course, people throw away things. But when you said every year, every year a letter that they know you buy time, that they know you are still in business, I think it's a big plus. And really, I think you're in business now for so long, you will know that much better than I do. And this is what every successful landslip told me on the way is people come back after four or five years. Say, Hey, you know what? I reached out to you because you sent me letters for five years now, and I get so many other letters. But you're the one which is still there. I want to talk to you. And this is why I think it's so important, right?

Joe: You know, you just I have hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands, literally. I have two different freedom soft accounts. I have thousands of old leads. And from five, six years ago, I should do a texting or voicemail campaign to them.

Robin: And we recently did that because I have a good friend who does that, too, and he builds a complete business model. But that would be so far out of that, right? So he just like does this this quiet title and he claims the properties back people lost on tax sale and all that. Right. But hey we do that every year. We send them we reach out every year with some new offer. It's exactly the same offer we sent them a year ago. We sent them a text message and a voicemail. And there's always like we got we did that a month ago. We got like 20 properties, I think out of this list out of like 4000 or five. So we imagine you would send like 5000 mailers and get like 20 letters back, right? So and try to contracts back.

Joe: I'm going to look here in a second to see how many I have, actually. So you've been in the business for three years and I've listened to people talk about competition and how it's gotten more competitive now, and maybe it has, but my philosophy has always been it's always been competitive. And still, when you compare it to houses, it's not nearly as competitive as houses are. But where do you sign in terms of competition? You know, do you worry about competition? Is it is it worse in some markets than in other markets? And where do you think we are right now in the land is the land investing side of things.

Robin: Of course, there's competition and I think the competition gets more right. There are a lot of coaches out there, a lot of great coaches like you who would just bring this business to a lot of people. And to be honest, like when you started or Jagr imagined he started, it was like you don't want I'd much rather you were a people at one point the whole country right so and right now so that what you do and it's good and what I think is in the in the same time competition is it's a good and a bad thing right. It's like you have more awareness from our buyers and sellers, but of course they're more aware of the prices, but they're more aware of selling, too. You know, it's like when you get a letter or a letter and maybe the wife says to their husband, well Gary, we should sell our property for 25 years, right? So we should do something with that. We never will bulls to Florida or remote parts of Alabama or North Carolina or whatever. Right. I think there's competition. But when you compare it with houses, I ran a number. I think they're like 800, 900,000 house flippers in the US. Right. So, I mean, when you look in the land flipping community, how many are there and how many really do business. This is the second thing. Yeah, right. Because Right. So it's like a lot of people enroll and think they send 500 letters and become millionaires. But that's not the truth. You need to make a commitment with yourself that you work that model for, for, for a while. Right. That you that you go through that and Yeah. Is it easy. Yes is a complex. Yes. So but you need to make when you do your homework you're committed and take the advantages of working remote and want that. And it's exactly the thing you want to do. All right.

Joe: I’m so excited right now because I have in just one of my freedom soft accounts, my old one. I have about 1500 leads. These are people that emailed me or called me in about, I don't know, ten different counties here, but I probably have another 1500 in my new freedom sought to count. So it is. But I'm looking at my direct mail response rates. These were from three years ago. I was getting 10% response rate on some of my direct mail in some of these counties, which might have been more normal back then. But now maybe I get 2% response rates. Still, that's really, really good because if you were to compare that to houses, you'd be getting half of 1% response rate on your direct mail if you were lucky.

Robin: If you're lucky, yeah.

Joe: Yeah. So now there are some counties that are very, very competitive. Do you do you stay away from those counties? Do you shy away from them? What do you what do you feel about that?

Robin: And that's almost a religious topic, right?

Joe: Yeah, sure. If you are heard about it, you know, like I teach lists and find the state that has the most activity, then find the counties that have the most activity in that state and you want to follow the demand, right? But then people get nervous like, Oh, well, there's a lot of demand in this county, but does that mean there's too much competition? So, you know, what is what is someone like you who's done hundreds of deals say to that?

Robin: I love the high competition markets, too, and I am in them by myself. It's a strategy you to follow, right? So here, right here, like the two scenarios. So this is what I talk with my clients on my podcast about a lot because they always ask me, What do you do? Say, okay, go to go. In a competitive or competitive market, you will have tons of columns, you will have tons of offers, but you have tons of competition to it. Your deals will not be this $0.10 on the dollar deal, right? Normally because people know what their properties are. Worse, but. When you get one, you will turn its right, you get more, you will turn it fast. And when you work with wholesalers, you have limited capital available. Then, then it's then it's a good thing to be there. You just need to be prepared that you maybe need to sent 2000 letters in the beginning or 3000, that is to get one property under contract. But run the math right When you do it, it's like 3000 letters. How much? I don't know. $800,000. Yeah, right. So then you got some called some time, some systems. It's like 3000, $40,000 it costs to get the first property under contract. And when you sell it in the high competitive market for ten, $15,000 in profit, you make its first 12 grand.

Joe: Right. And this is when you probably understand, because you may not buy it at ten, 25, $0.30 on the dollar, you might buy it at 40, 50, $0.60 on the dollar. But that's okay because you're going to sell that so much faster and the prices are higher and there's more buyers that are looking to buy properties, more realtors that are looking to help you that can help you there. Right. I find in the more competitive markets, it's easier to find title companies with that are really cheap that will let you do assignments there. It's easier to find realtors that will let you listed on the MLS even though you don't own it yet. You know? Nice. Okay, cool. I mean.

Robin: There's a second strategy you can try, right? But then you need to deal with one thing. If you have slower markets, they're even slower in the market. If we had last year. Right. Right now, like the really rural areas in the Carolinas or wherever, then you just need to find how do you finance this properties. Right. So how do you how do you listen with the realtor and just sit that out until they're sold to make the same amount of profits? You have higher response rates, you have more the idea that you get results faster, right? But you have a different business model then this is everything, I think.

Joe: Yeah, that's really good. Okay, I want to ask you some questions about like your data, your list. Where do you get your data and your lists from?

Robin: I have that outsourced. I work with some agency who does all of that, who does the whole direct mail stuff for me. You know, I told you I'm good in systems and I'm really capable of things I can do and I know what I can't do. And I'm not a big data guy. I don't like data lag. I love the idea of researching how, but scrubbing this as all that data provide us out there, who do that for you. And that's completely outsourced. I have an agency I work that together with, and they do a great job. I'm with them for three years now. They do all the design up, the stuff they do literally everything around acquisitions because I never wanted to do that.

Joe: Okay. So do you mind sharing who that is or would you rather not? It's okay.

Robin: Yeah, it's Alicia Jarrett I mean, we both know how to write for super and so which are softwares they do is they do a great job. I love working with them because they do everything and especially the data. This is way, way we could do blade office so fast, right? They're brilliant idea of processing data. Of course you need to work with that. You need to help them to make their data better. But hey, it's like a couple of call two months and they just like I'm here and they just take care of everything and do it remotely. Everybody's sending out mail it.

Joe: Yeah, I, I interviewed Alicia Jarrett on my podcast. She has a website. Is it called Supercharged Offers?

Robin: Yeah. Supercharged offers dot com. Yeah.

Joe: Supercharged offers dot com. And so they're a complete done for you agency And so you just you work with them obviously you're paying a premium for that so it may not be for everybody who's just getting started. She's got a great podcast that you guys should check out. I've had her on my show before. She's really good, but they can just take care of it all for you, Right? And getting the list, sending the mail, whether you want to do neutral letters or blind offers and whatnot and whatnot, right? Yeah, that's cool. What do you use for your CRM then, for managing the leads as they come in?

Robin: So we work with Pipedrive, right? So we are really strong in automation and so I and all that. So we're still working on Pipedrive, which we customize a lot from, from us. We have like or have like around 150,000 pure action some months and around. I don't know this make dot com scenarios we have the biggest package with them you can buy it's like a lot with style so everything is integrated that saves us a lot of time and money in the price.

Joe: So why, why did you choose Pipedrive now? I'm assuming, you know, Pipedrive has a lot of I'm trying not to talk techie here, but have a lot of ways to integrate third party services, right? Are you doing that through Zapier? Are you doing that through direct integrations in the Pipedrive?

Robin: Yeah, it's there. Direct integrations on the one hand. Right? And there are Zapier dot com integrations on the other. And it was in the end I come from sales. For me it was, it was like a sales driven decision. And what do our salespeople look on every day? Yeah, because like techies, they work with whatever you can give them spreadsheets, right? By the sales day. It needs to be easy to navigate. You need to have everything on one on one click. And this is why we integrated that. And, you know, I always thought and it was the vision to build something big out of that. So I needed. Something scalable where we could have something which already had scaled in a circle in a certain space. So this is where we could integrate task management and all that. So meanwhile we have a project management software. We will create integrated Monday dot com, which is a little bit more flexible. Right. So there are a lot of system speaking meanwhile.

Joe: So why not. Because I'm looking at Monday dot com right now so I use freedom software for my main CRM. That's what I use it's built for real estate investors but it's mainly for houses and for land use and you can use it for land, but it's mainly designed for houses. So I've customized it. I call it the Joe McCall signature edition of Freedom. So often it's works amazing, but there's a lot of people coming into this business and they just they just want to do their first deal. And I tell them, use pen and paper, use spreadsheets. You know, don't think that you have to use this huge, monstrous, awesome, amazing CRM to get your first deal done. So why did you choose to use Pipedrive? Why not just use Monday as your CRM and your project management?

Robin: Interesting question. So we were using it forward, the beginning from Jack Bosch. Right now it's like an all inclusive package. I think it's really similar and I hate when you decide to work with somebody. Go do that and stay there because it's like done for you. In one thing, you're just follow up and they always say, Learn the process first before you think about your and automations and so on. For us, it was at that point where we needed to get out of that was we had so many needs we needed to handle and the software we were using at that point was not really built to handle a lot of needs. And the second thing is we already had I always had a team and it was about task delegation and then work really fine was Patrick. Meanwhile, we integrated Monday because the process, the processing is so complex because we do a lot of transactions for all the landslip rates, right? So we get a lot of background processing and that was not the wrong tool, but it integrated so well. And so my team on the project side are marketing especially. They work with Monday. Okay. And everybody else parts on Pipedrive.

Joe: I'm looking at building a simple CRM for I'm going to call it first Deal CRM. Hopefully nobody steals a lot of that. I mean, on Monday dot com, I thought about just building it on Monday, but okay, so my question for you then would be phones. But what do you got? A acquisition team and you're using Pipedrive. What are you doing for phones? How are you getting that integrated in there and all that.

Robin: Just called audio. If you haven't checked that out, we made like a big thing. It's like I, I supported the software. Really nice reporting. You can do bogus messaging. You can do like when you have a sales rep calling, he doesn't need to speak to voicemail anymore. It's ringing and then have. Oh, you're afraid so mailbox of Joe McCall. Right so and then when the beep just hit the button and already hits it's already calling the next one. Reporting systems integrations. This is what we are using them. The price was very good for that too.

Joe: So it has direct integration of Pipedrive, too.

Robin: Yeah. Yeah. So this is really important. And I think that's the most important thing, that you have a direct integration of your phone tool into your CRM, direct integration of your mail tool into your CRM. You have all the information in one place, especially when you start getting VA, some board or have VA is communicating with somebody. You want to know what they doing, right? Yeah, absolutely.

Joe: Well, that's good because that's what I love about freedom soft. You get your number from freedom soft and you can have as many as you want and you can make and receive the calls inside of freedom soft. And it keeps the conversations inside of the communication tab of that actual contact, right? Absolutely. So that's really cool. Okay, good. I'm just looking at I'm always geeking out on these new tools that it's just called audio. You're saying from Pipedrive. The lead comes in or whatever you can call them back from the laptop, from the computer. And it's all the.

Robin: Images, all the integration, all the all the communication is available. That's a recording from the last call, right where right now working that we get a transcript from that call to our that we have a transcript from the call so it's like it's pretty cool I think.

Joe: Right I'll just call that IO has a direct integration with Monday.com. All right. Anyway.

Robin: I'm getting some ideas, Joe.

Joe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wonder how much it costs. I'm trying to build something that is super simple that people can just get started with. Okay. All right. So now the questions I had for you, the supercharged offers dot com is Alysha Jarrett's right we talked about that talked about the CRM you're using is Pipedrive. You guys can get that for 1015 bucks a month. You get to kind of build your own integrations. Let's talk about how do you pick markets? All right. Let's rewind even a little bit more. You've done deals in a lot of different states, I'm assuming. In fact, let's rewind even more. If you were to start all over again, Robin, from scratch and you knowing what you know now, you lost everything and you had a few thousand bucks to your name and your wife broke up with you and you moved to. The Czech Republic because Prague is amazing. You love Prague and you move to Prague and you had to do deals and you only had a few thousand bucks. How what would you do? What kind of how would you pick your market and what would you do next?

Robin: So how to pick markets. To be honest, let's keep it simple. I would use your old and simple card rate, but you're positive because it's really brilliant what you tell them how to pick them up.

Joe: SimpleLandKit.com?

Robin: Yeah. And that was like, really? It's. It's a nice video. And, you know, I'm in several coaching programs by myself and everybody say it's a letter, but you just like, summarize that really well. Then I would start pulling the leads. What separates them and I would start with text messaging if I would be on a budget, right? Just like blast them out and start communicating. Talk to the cell and say I'm a I'm like, good on the phone. I can talk to people. Right. And you don't need so much money for that. And then when I find out through text messaging, which are the markets where I got most replies and all that, then I would start doing direct mail. But the first ones I would always text messaging and the moments and they're like good softwares where you can do that, you know, like launch control or whatever. There's so many out there. And then just doing the first deal, it's right and being consistent in what I'm doing right and was I think was texting you get the in the fastest way you get like the fastest penetration out there in the market and the fastest results in the moment.

Joe: So you would use launch control would be one of the tools you'd look at. Right. Can you buy your numbers with launch control or do they make you go through Twilio.

Robin: I would buy them with Data tree or whatever, right. So this is what we do. I think my team best said, okay, I'm not so deep in the details. Right. But it's like I think we use data tree and do that with direct skip because their heart rate is so high on numbers, right? So this is what it is. Okay, so let's see if.

Joe: You guys just Google launch control texting. You can find launch controls website. It's not cheap, but you can start sending texts through there at a big scale and you get your list from data tree. You skip, trace them. There's a million skip tracing services. And in fact, guys, if you watch any of my previous YouTube videos, you see what we do for that. So you would start texting. That's interesting. But what which county would you go into? What are some how would you go and select a state and a county?

Robin: First of all, I would I would just do Florida, Texas and Arizona. Right. Okay. Maybe Southern California. It's like really hard right now. And so whatever you read and the way the market is really going up, this is where I would go to. Right. And just like because you turn it's fast, you don't the thing is, disposition is expensive to everybody's talking about acquisition all the time. But disposition is like most of the time so much longer and much harder process, right?

Joe: So yeah, so what's more important. What you're saying is think about the end in mind, right? Think about like what market can I sell these deals the fastest in which ones have the most buyers, which ones have? Because when, when you pick in a good market, it's so much easier to get comps. So where can I sell my deals quickly? In Florida, all you have to do is go to Google and search for top huge U-Haul markets. You know, like U-Haul is a moving company. Right. And find out which market are they most of the trucks being sent to, where are they leaving from and where are they going to? And you're going to find Florida. Texas and Arizona are among the top three states and them. Right. So let's talk about generalizations.

Robin: Oh, that was a cool tip, that U-Haul market. So I grab that. I'll bet that's cool.

Joe: Oh, yeah, just Google it. And U-Haul every year produces publishes a report on that. Let's talk about dispositions then. All right. You've got a service. We'll give you guys finance once. Just give us some link to have a website that people can go to on dispositions for how you guys do that for people.

Robin: www.WeSellYourLand.io, it's like pretty simple.

Joe: We, say that again, we sell.

Robin: We Sell Your Land.io.

Joe: Oh, we sell your land dot. IO Yeah. Okay, cool. So dispositions, you guys have a well, kind of a it's amazing a full complete done for you disposition service. We'll talk about that in a minute. And I want you to list everything that you guys do because I think this is amazing. And before I, you know, give it my full endorsement, I we talked recently and I said, hey, give me some counties that you're that you like and you did. And we just started sending out direct mail to those markets. So we're going to be using you guys for those. But it's really cool what you're doing there, and I'm really intrigued by it. Let's talk, though, to beginner, though, who maybe wants to do it on their own first. All right. Now, how do you what do you do You recommend using realtors using closing on the deal, you know, before you sell it? What what's your kind of big level view on dispositions that makes sense?

Robin: Yeah. Let's go back in the situation. I like that when I would start off this stretch so I would text, I would get it on the contract and then I would, I think, the high. Chance of getting that together is wholesale the thing, right? So I we go with the contract and I find a realtor selling that in a hot market for me, this is what I would do. Okay. Is that hard? Yeah, because you need to not you need convincing. The realtor is maybe easy, right? Selling a $35,000 lot. Right. So maybe he will do that. But going through his broker, this is like the trade. So to convince this broker going with the wholesale contract and selling that for you. But I think in a hard market, it's like the best way of doing that.

Joe: Oh my gosh, you just got to make a few more phone calls, right? Because we just did this. We have a deal in Florida. We got it under contract for $215,000. It's a four acre lot on the water and we thought we could sell it for 320 and we got some bites and interest, but we started calling realtors who have sold land in that area in the last few months, and we had to call eight of them before we finally got one that said, Yeah, but what we did is we said, Hey, we got this deal that's similar to the one you sold to so-and-so recently, and it's priced right. And we were selling it for 265, so we got it under contract for 215,000. We said we were selling it for 265. It's worth about 300, so we're selling at a discount. But this realtors like and we pay generous commissions. We offered to pay 6% commissions on a $260,000 property right back to one realtor. That's not half right. We paid generous commissions to that one realtor for just bringing us a buyer. But like, he's at all, I Yeah, I know a guy. All I got to do is make some phone calls. And that day we got a full priced offer, 260 grand with a $25,000 earnest money deposit and a two week inspection contingency. But yeah, and then the realtor that the realtor here, that we didn't own it yet. No, we told them we don't own it yet and we're investors from out of state and I didn't I wasn't comfortable buying that and closing on the deal and then selling it because it's I don't know if we could really sell it or not. And we're normally doing land that's like 10 to $30000 price range, not $200,000 price range. But yeah, when we did, when he made those phone calls, it just blew me away. How easy that is to just call realtors and ask them, Do you have buyers? And I paid generous commissions. Yeah, that was cool. All right, so you would call realtors and get them to bring you buyers. That makes sense.

Robin: Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I think this is when you break it down, when I would need to start off the scratch. When you do that. Right. What are you doing the morning shows? I'm out the text messages and then you take care to find some realtors and then you're Peter to Peter. Then from the money you make, maybe when you are divorced, you pay your wife first, right? But then you start making more money. You hire a team scaling that, and then you can do buy time. You actually found it. You find out and you send direct mail there. So this is how you can break the way up. Again, I think this is like land flipping broken down. And one thing is this the easiest way from my perspective to do it?

Joe: All right. Very good. We got to wrap this up. This has been an exciting conversation. I love talking about this stuff. You have a full service. We sell your land dot IO. Talk about what you guys do.

Robin: To be honest, it's exactly that. Right? So a lot of people I mean, I'm. I'm almost out of the country, right? So I have it started last year that a lot of foreign landscapers came to me and said, Hey, Robin, how are you doing? I would do that. And I said, Hey, let's partner up. Right? So and what we did is we started selling through them. They had a contract, right? And we just like took it over that we did. They started doing the due diligence, preparing the marketing, putting it through marketing channels, setting up a sale through them, doing the transactional coordination. How was funding the deal? Right? So sometimes you need. Right, you can't double close or any transactional funding or you need to know what is sold on the closing table or whatever. So we did all of that and it was so many deal here. I'm like 70. I think that we started like, Hey, there's a demand on the market, right? And I think maybe there are a lot of people who started this as a side hustle. And when you have a family, right, maybe living in the foreign country, you have a family and like their day job. Right. And knocked off that. It's a lot to do. Right. And a lot to deal with. So and so what we recently did, we just came out of the beta phase. We just brought all of that on a platform. Right? So imagine you they call some API number so or a contract and we or you own a property, you bought it and we just like the next time we call you is where we ask for the why inspection score of the title company twice a year. The money, everything else is all right. So it's like we do the full due diligence on the property. This is what we start with. Then we go and prepare or send a drone pilot out to the property who walks the property right to make it better. Due diligence. Check yourself water the property address. We find any turtles or snakes or whatever, right? We had that last year. We couldn't sell the property because.

Joe: I don't even know what a scrub j is, but that's a good thing.

Robin: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's bad right. So and yeah. Then only create all the listing material. Also one for like listing websites work to do advertisements one where you can't do that and then we start listing it always on the MLS. We're so local, so we know how to find them. We know how to convince brokers. And in most of the states we have brokers in most of the counties which we have open, and if not, we know how to find them. Then where we listed on all these fancy websites like Land.com and whatever, you make a lot of online marketing on social. It's like YouTube and Facebook and Google and so not neighborhood marketing and email. So obviously it's built by our business, right? So all the jobs you would need to do, we do that. We even take all the phone calls, right? So we have a sales team in-house. We have a realtor locally working with you. We close the deal. We ask you before, of course. Hey, are you do we agree on the price? Great. So but we close on that deal with the best apparently title companies and where we help you even closing VIP transactions where. No, no, no saying it's German. Let's get some first line deal ever. Right. And we have title issues with, like, text. He wants a text sale and then it's a quiet title needed and all. And we help us through that making the deal happen right And yeah and they add you get paid and you don't need to worry so much about that right. This is, this is what we do. So it's like really a full service. And instead of going in a JV agreement, we're just like, get a commission down on the sale. Right? And that's, that's, that's very pretty what we do.

Joe: So the pricing structure, we don't need to get into all the details, but approximately you guys got to get paid obviously to do this. And so there's, there's, is there an upfront fee? Do you take a certain percentage of the profits? How does that work out?

Robin: Yeah, we have like we have like a little upfront fee, right. Which, which is a couple of hundred of dollars. It always depends on the case. Right. We have a little mini subscription model, which is a month to month. It's no long term contracts, right. So even though it depends on how many properties, what do you want? And we this is this is like everything but it's really peanuts because I want a commitment to. Right. I don't want to bet your sheet us contracts and never call the seller again or don't do anything right. We experience a lot of that like last year when we just worked on JV agreements. You come to a closing and the seller says, Oh, never had a contract with you guys, right? So work with your sellers. By the way, this is like another tip. But I think you're just like always Teach is not a lot to write well.

Joe: But yeah there's a lot of investors who are new and getting started. They forget about how important it is to communicate regularly with the seller, to update them on what's going on. I don't know why people forget to do that or don't do it, but so you so basically, bottom line, somebody gets a contract in all 50 states or there's certain states you are not.

Robin: We do nine states and the moment we do right now what are the we have August 2023. Right? We do like Florida, Texas, Arizona, Georgia, California, Tennessee, North Carolina, Pennsylvania. And I forgot one, but it's on our website. So I to do that. Right. It's like nine states we're currently serving. But the goal is that we are in all the 50 states. It all depends on who is coming, hold us what, because we need a little bit of volume to open a state because this positions this like a long term game too. You need buyers lists, you need budget, you need some you need to have a perspective on that site. It's not that you just like when you have a good realtor, it's good, but it's more about like, what if the realtor it's not enough, right? What if it realtors, you know, they sometimes sent you offer 70% of the market value. So it's just statistics is I think our realtors sell quite a lot. I think we saw 50% was a realtor for our properties, but they're all on the discount. The properties we sell on our sell. We saw a sale soon. They're all full price.

Joe: Wow. Okay.

Robin: Right. So that's the interesting thing because we negotiate on the phone and we have those us on the phone, which is another business model. So it's like a long term game, I think. And a lot of people underestimate like how much work that is in the end to. Sure. Right. When you don't have a good realtor finding one and then you have third party, right? It's acquisition dispositions. Everybody forgets about transaction, right? Everybody forgets about that because transaction. Yes. Sometimes so many hurdles there. Right. Like any being this and this and this where people walk away from deals which can be really easy to sort I last year deal in Brevard County in Florida like one of the hottest areas maybe in the country right and there were $120,000 on liens on a $50,000 property. And I just called the courts and we negotiated them down on $4,000 right now. Everybody else. Right. That would have walked away. It's just the experience, right?

Joe: Oh, man. Would you ask the court, did you ask them, how do I find all the other properties? They have all these lines on them.

Robin: I didn't ask that, but that would be a smart question to ask. I was just like really proud of myself to negotiate that down, right.

Joe: Do you have the list of all those other ones that we could get? That's cool. So like, you know, I don't want to put I don't want to throw numbers out there, but on average, you're probably I'm expecting you'll probably pay a. 30 to 50% of your profits to Robin's Company out of the deal. But listen, if it's a good deal, they're going to do almost all of the work on the dispositions on the selling side of that. So half of a watermelon is always better than a full 100% of a blueberry. Have you guys ever heard that? Right. And this is something I say all the time. I don't know the last time or if I have ever done a deal 100% on my own. I've always partnered with people. Either I find the lead, somebody else closes it, somebody else sells it, I get it under contract, somebody else sells it, somebody gets it under contract, they bring it to me and then I sell it or I sell it. I give it to my disposition, guys. So like, this is important. Understand? Do not think that you have to do it all yourself. It's better to partner with somebody to sell your deals for you if that's not what you're good at. Right. Because again, you may not make as much money, but you're putting in way less work and they're going to help you avoid all of the costly mistakes. And Robbins team will probably not let you buy a property that's bad property when they go to send somebody to take photos and do drone footage because that's really important and that drone photographer can't get to the property because it's underwater or because there's a gate or there's a neighbor with a gun threatening to blow his head off. You don't want to buy that property, right? And sometimes you just don't know that until you send a realtor or a photographer there to look at it. So you may make half of a watermelon, but it's going to be more than a 100% of a blueberry. So, yeah.

Robin: And I think I think the beauty of that, as we talked about, how do you pick markets? How do you learn, you know, market? And I think this is like something you master too. It's like, you know your market so well. When you get in like your top five markets, you get a property, you exactly know it's that subdivision in there that and that the issues I need to watch out for that or whatever. Right. So when you master that, I get like so much, so much so good and acquisitions you don't need to muscle like that. The whole second and third part of the game the disposition and yeah and transaction because it's like oh it's a lot too. And a lot of our investors like that and we didn't talk too much about like what are the hurdles of a foreign land investor, right? So like talking about stuff like, like, like notarization bank accounts, like all this weird things, you know, we have all that salt for our customers already. It's hard to find that out.

Joe: Yeah, because that's a whole other topic. But again, if you're from Mexico, if you're from I get a lot of people that have watched us from Malaysia, from Asia, from Guatemala, from the other day I had somebody from Portugal on one of my calls. Right. Like it's the getting out under contract is actually the easy part, right? You just sign up for an account with a company that can send letters for you. Anybody can do that. But when it comes to the closing side of it, that's why you need a company like this that can take care of those issues so you don't have to get a bank account, You don't have to create an LLC necessarily, and you don't have to worry about the issues that come up like this is already taken care of. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. We got to wrap this up again. This has been good. Your Oh, no, I lost you where'd you go. Are you still there?

Robin: Did you switch me off?

Joe: I did, how did that happen? There you are. Okay. I don't know what I just did. My apologies. We sell land at IO. No, no, it's. We sell your land dot IO. We sell your land dot IO. It explains how the process works. Right now there's just a button for submit. Now they submit information about their property to you. And then what happens next?

Robin: Oh, so right now you will hop on a call with me, actually. Right. So I wanted. I want to talk to everybody. Always know our customers where we have like we're like a long waiting list. We had select everybody right now because we really want to be sure that we sell your property. So we have on a call. We see if we can help you if you're in the right market, at the right properties where we are 100% confident that we will sell that quickly. And good for you right now. All right. So and then you find out we have a portal, You just walk in the portal and then we start working. Right? So it's like just upload it there after that call and yeah, then we sell the property. The next time you hear from us, that's when our transactional coordinator reaches out, says, Hey, we're in closing. You want us to close 82 or do you own it or what? What's the status of that? So yeah, it's logging in there, be going to call and then I'm. That's right. It's all right.

Joe: Good. All right. And so you do work with beginning investors too, that are just getting started in this, right?

Robin: I love to work with them. I love to work with the beginning. I love to it. And I have all of that. Right? I have from, like I said, the lady from Germany with the first deal up tool. I have really experienced coaches on board which work with us because they're just a hack and I think forget about that. Right? It's just like you solve that and everybody in between, no matter where you come from, how you look like, what your beliefs in, just if we can help you, we do it. And I'm really, you know. I'm really fair when I say I wish something and say, Hey, I don't do it. It doesn't make sense. Right?

Joe: Good. All right. Hey, thank you so much, Robin, for being on the podcast. I'm looking forward to doing more business with you in the future with my students as well. Thank you again.

Robin: Thank you so much for having me. And yeah, thank you. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. And I can't wait to have you on my podcast for when we launch it really soon. So we'll be happy to have you there.

Joe: You know, maybe. Maybe we should do a workshop in Spain. I done I've done two. I did two or three workshops in Spain teaching people how pitch teaching people from England how to do lease options in England and in the United States. And I'm looking for an excuse to go back to Spain again.

Robin: So you don't need an excuse anymore. You're always welcome here. So when you're here, bring your family. I'm happy to host you and to guide you around. We can always do a larger workshop from here, right? Yeah, we'll talk about that.

Joe: All right. Hey, thanks again. Again, guys. Go to Simple Land Kit.com to get my free land kit, and we'll see later. Thank you, Robin. Bye, everybody.