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How To Do Wildly Profitable Wholesale Deals In Difficult Markets

I first met Todd Tobeck back in 2008 when I was just getting started in real estate. He introduced me to lease options and we’ve been friends ever since. Todd’s an expert in doing profitable deals in difficult markets and has been killing it for years. Many people even refer to him as the OG of wholesaling and his coaching and course changed my life. He’s currently doing big deals in a variety of different markets and one of the main things he encourages is to invest as much as possible. Investing allows you to keep generating huge profits and put that money to work for you so you can finally get out of the rat race.

According to Todd, negotiation is all about reading and raising your “income thermostat”. Everyone has a specific comfort zone, but you’re never going to get more than you shoot for. You have to create your own next level with intention. To find out how motivated a seller is, Todd suggests asking them how much they’d sell for in five different ways. He also shares the four phases of a new capability and how they can help you cross the finish line in a deal. Conditioning sellers by offering them other options besides you is also a helpful tactic.

Todd’s offering his script free of charge for our listeners. Head to the link below and make sure to download your copy.

Watch and learn:

Listen and learn:

What’s inside:

  • How to do profitable deals even in tough markets.
  • Negotiation tips and how to talk to sellers.
  • The four phases of a new capability and how they can help you sell.
  • How conditioning closes more deals.

Mentioned in this episode:


Download episode transcript in PDF format here…

Joe: Welcome. This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. What's going on, guys, Joe McCall, the best coach ever here for the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. I'm excited about this episode because we got a special guest. One of my the reason I got this mug, by the way, is I think Todd Toback next to me is the number one coach ever because he helped me get started in this business and this cup is too full. Or else I would pull it back and show you. But like, this is the guy who got me started in the business back in 2008, doing lease options, and we've been friends ever since. And he lives in San Diego. We're going to be talking about how to make massive, wildly profitable wholesale deals even in difficult markets. When somebody thinks of Todd Toback, they think big deals in difficult markets. When everybody else is complaining and whining that you can't do deals, it's too hard. Where where Todd comes to the scene and says B.S. and he's killing it. He's been killing it for years and years. A lot of people call him the OG of wholesaling. He is in the house. We're going to bring him on. But first, I want to let you know this podcast is brought to you by my book REI Secrets. I talk about it a lot daily nuggets of real estate investing wisdom to help you get more leads and close more deals. This is a fantastic book. One of my friends called it who read it, who's he said. This is a tool of titans for real estate investors. If you're familiar with that, book by Timothy Ferriss. So get it for free REI secrets dot com. Every chapter is about two or three pages long, it reads. Kind of like a devotional. I wanted it to be something that would inspire you, motivates you, gets you excited about talking to sellers and making offers and following up and building your real estate, investing business and making deals and making a lot of money. So we bring Todd on. Todd Toback How are you, brother?

Todd: I'm doing great. Excited to be here, Joe, and I'm just excited to pour into the audience today. Hopefully we can get them some big checks, large profit and have some fun in the process.

Joe: I'm excited because again, you were used to be known as the big lease option guy right back in the late mid to late 2000s, Once Upon a time. And that's how I got started in the business. Your course changed my life. It really helped me. And those of you that don't know Todd. When I bought his course back in 2008, I was in the middle of nowhere Illinois, spending the night in a crappy hotel, working on this big, huge power plant. And I had a free coaching call as a bonus to talk to Todd, and I was on the phone. I said, Todd, can you really actually make money doing this stuff? Can you really make a full time? I think at the time, Todd, I was making 60 or 70 grand a year, which is not bad. And you said, yes, you can, of course. And that, for me, just flipped this light switch, flipped it in me and I said, All right, I can do it. I know I can do it. Fast forward six months I quit my job. I was making more money doing lease options part time. Now, since then, Todd has been he's out of San Diego. And Todd, you've been doing some really, really big deals in San Diego, one of the most difficult competitive markets in the entire country. And you're not only doing deals there, you're doing deals in Florida, another super competitive, difficult market. At least that's what everybody thinks. And Todd is known as the guy who is not afraid of any challenge who can take big deals down even in competitive markets. And you know, he's just he's known all around kind of the wholesaling circles as one of the OGs in this business. And people go to him to get training and all that. So I'm glad you're here. Todd, thanks for being here.
Todd: Well, thank you. You, Joe. I want to add a little bit something to that, though, because I don't care what market you're in. Ironically, I'm in three markets right now. We are market of Florida. We're in San Diego, but we're also in Birmingham. I don't think I've told you that, Joe, but long story short, we are doing big deals in all of those markets, so we actually have a quote unquote easier market. We've got a media market and we've got a very, very challenging market. And out of all three of those, there's one thing in common and that is we do big deals that are wildly profitable that will, if you could model what we're doing, OK, you're going to explode your income and I'm talking about your net income profit, and I don't care whether you have no experience or what market you're in. OK, it doesn't matter, right? That's the one thing I want to reiterate is that we're going to show you how to do that on today's episode.

Joe: Well, let's talk about that. You know you, you're a money machine, Todd.

Todd: But I think it's one of the biggest thing, Joe, that I really encourage people to do is is invest, right? One of the things that I just love about this business is that you can generate again paychecks of 40 and $50000, and I always encourage people to get off that treadmill, generate a lot of money and take that 40 or 50 thousand dollars. They make and take 40 percent of that and invest it in something that's going to pay them over and over and over and over and over again. Right. And so I just love that cycle where again, you can generate big deals. Generate huge profits and then put that money to work where it's your slave, because that's what everyone is looking for. They're looking to get out of the rat race and to be able to do that. And so today, because of this business may able to take about eight weeks of vacation every single year. We buy what we want to buy. We go on vacations. When we go on vacations, we work. We want to work. And at some point there was a delayed gratification where let's say we talked about that, that beat up old truck that I had or, you know, not buying the new cars. But eventually, eventually you get to a point where that money just starts working for you. So if you can combine these big deals that I'm talking about, right, they give you margin. What is margin mean? Margin means that if you get to a point where you're generating. And again, this may seem like a lot, but you're generating four or five hundred thousand dollars of your net or a million dollars a year net or $2 million of your net. Imagine how fast that you can build wealth if you take 40 percent of that and invest it. So we talk today about that first part because I love it. I love saving. I love investing. I love doing that. But you know, if you don't want to live like a miser, which I don't suggest you do right, I suggest living on a small portion of your income. You got it. You got to increase your income. And that's what we're going to talk about today.

Joe: That's funny because I'm friends with your brother, Tom as well, and Tom and I always, when we're talking to each other, give you a hard time behind your back. I apologize, Todd, but you're always a more disciplined one who's who's better with the money, who doesn't like spending it on stupid stuff. And me and Tom are the exact opposite. We always spend way too much money. We don't look at prices on the menu at when we're shopping. And Todd, who makes much more money than both of us, is like super smart with your money, which I like about you, Todd. That's one thing I like about you. All right. So we're not talking about more deals. We're talking about bigger deals, right? Todd, talk about that.
Todd: Yeah. So, you know, one of the things I think you and I both been part of masterminds, right? And or we're in a a setting where there's 200 or 300 students, everyone's like, Oh, that guy does, you know, one hundred deals a year or two hundred dollars a year or that guy's going nationwide. And so one of the things that I notice, you know, sometimes coaching makes you a better investor. And one of the things that I noticed between over the years is that, you know, my business seemed to be a lot more profitable than the guys who were either in multiple markets or doing a lot of deals, you know. And so I'm like, Well, what? You know, what's the deal with that? You know, and I had a mentor tell me, you know, of course you want to do a lot of deals as long as those deals are the best deals, right? If you if you can, you know, structure your deals where you're hitting those maximum profit because we went over like the time it takes to do a smaller deal. And at the end of the day, we just noticed that the smaller deals were taking up the most time. Right? The absolute most time. And so basically we decided, Hey, you know what? What if we just focused on making $50000 a deal? That was our that was our kind of the point where we, you know, started doing that.

Joe: Well, I remember you were doing deals in Oklahoma at the time.

Todd: Oh, my gosh. I mean, what a nightmare. Right, right? You know, I just woke up all the holy crap. That's like PTSD, right? But it wasn't Oklahoma ironically, right? It was because we were trying to escape. Right. We're trying to escape from, you know, leaning into the difficulty of where we were right. It was a distraction. We were looking at. The grass is greener thinking, Oh my gosh, if we could just find someplace easier to do business well, then you know, we could double or triple what we're doing. So it's funny that you brought that up because we started doing deals in Oklahoma and we started doing deals in Cleveland. And yeah, we made some money. Our deal count definitely went up and I could tell you that it was the single worst six month history in terms of net profit in front of our our company. Now I can tell you this is that all our sales team members were high fiving each other and they felt good. But at the end of the day, we noticed, Hey, the net profit isn't coming. So Joe, we're going to talk about a couple of things on this that a couple of tips that you can use when you're negotiating. OK? And we're going to talk about some things in the back end that if you're negotiating that, you could do these big, profitable deals. Is that OK? Yeah, yeah, please. Yeah. Joe, give me 10 seconds here, by the way, and I forgive me. My charger fell out of the wall here over here, so I got to charge it here to plug it back in.

Joe: I'll just drink from my coffee cup while you do that and show everybody the number one. You be listening to the audio podcast here. You can see my cup. It says best coach ever. And underneath it says no one. A student sent me this cup, Todd and I said to Gavin as a joke mug that says second best coach ever. And the bottom says number two on Gavin's cup. Anyway, yeah. How's that for a time filler?

Todd: That was awesome. That was amazing. This is not your first rodeo. So, Joe, so so let me talk about some things here. OK. The first thing is when you. Our negotiating is that a lot of people have what I call the income thermostat. OK. And by the way, again, I don't care what market you're in. OK, if you're in a low dollar market or a high dollar market, it does not matter, right? The size of your deal matters, OK, and that's what I'm going to talk about. So before you say you shut this off and say, Oh, San Diego or Florida or whatever, that would be the fakeness. OK. It's fake news because I've done an eighty thousand dollar deal on a house that I sold for $90000. OK, does that make sense? I've done an eighty thousand dollar deal on a house that I've sold for $90000 right and out in the, you know, total boonies right of the desert in California, by the way, that, by the way, that was the my the most margin I've made right on and such a such a small price house. So the first thing that you have to do is check your income thermostat. So imagine that we are in a we're in a cabin, right? And that cabin and we've got the thermostat on, right? And Joe, what happens when the heat right the the the room reaches the temperature right of the thermostat? What happens? The heat turns off, he turns off. Well, that's how most people operate their business, right? And what do I mean by that? Well, if you ask people what their average wholesale deal size is, they will see a pattern right there. You'll see the people who do five to seven normally do five to seven. You know, it's the people who do tend to 10 right are the 20 or 20. And so you start to see this pattern of what they expect they get and someone's going to say, no, that's not true. Yes, it is right. Case in point right now, Joe, if I said, Hey, go work in McDonalds, right? There's nothing that I could do to get you to work at McDonald's, right? Because your income is way above that. Your thermostat says, No, I'm not going to make ten or fifteen dollars an hour, depending what part of the country you're right. You are not going to work for that. Yeah, right. So you have you personally have that thermostat. I have that thermostat. But the people who work in McDonald's right now, their thermostat is right there in there, even if they go someplace else like I want to raise, they'll go someplace that are sixteen or seventeen thousand dollars, right? So what you have to do is intentionally raise your thermostat. You have to say, I'm going to go from 10 to, you know, 10 to 30 or 30 to 50 or 50 to 70 or 70 to 100 and create an intentionality of where you are going. All right, because you're never going to get more than you shoot for, ain't going to happen, right? You're never going to get more than you shoot for. So that's the first question, Joe, you're not here. It sounds like you have a question.

Joe: No, I'm writing notes. It's really good.

Todd: Yeah. And that is so real. And it's so true. And if you don't believe me, just try it. We did this course. One time it was live, was called bigger deals, and we had like 15 people in there. And basically the goal of the class was to double the the deal size. And the first thing I said is, Hey, what are you doing now and where do you want to go? That was like the first thing that we did, right? And before we even taught the mechanics of the course, the next week, someone's like, Oh my gosh, I just did the biggest wholesale deal I've ever done. Right? Even before we got in the mechanics, the week one was the mindset Oh, you know how to become, you know, completely nuts, right? And so, you know, the biggest thing that I would say is decide, OK, the other thing. The second part of this, and again, it just does not matter if you have experience or you're brand new, right? Is is what you say and how you say it. So one of the things that I talk about, by the way, is have a script that we use. And part of that skill is to get the seller to give you a number for the house. Now you're going to say dotard. I've already heard that we're going to dig a little bit deeper on that, Joe. OK. Yeah. So by the way, is it OK if I tell people about the script, they can download the script?

Joe: Yeah, where do they go? And I'll type that in here.

Todd: So I've got a script that I'm going to give totally free to the to your audience today, Joe. So we've got a no limits real estate investing dot com. No limits real estate investing dot com forward slash script. OK? And Joe is going to put this up here. No limits real estate investing.com forward slash script scripted this the exact same use, exact same script that we use in our company. But here's what you have to do is there is an uncomfortable process that you have to go through, right? So let's talk about the lay down. The lay down is when you ask a seller and they come in and they give you a number so low, you're even flabbergasted. They say that you run over the house and get the contract right, and if you got a deal by accident, that's great. And I believe me, I hope that you get a million of those. But the truth is, in today's market, those are like few and far between. Most people aren't going to talk about how motivated they are. If they are right, they know that whoever mentions a number of first loses. So what I recommend is you asking the seller and getting a number out of them what you're going to purchase their house for, but you got to ask five different ways. Five different ways. And what you're going to happen is that you are going to get resistance on getting that number. And so there's this uncomfortable thing where you have to say, You know what? I'm going to dig deeper. I like the tension. I'm going to dig into. See if there is something here. So one of the things we talk about is if someone says, Hey, if I could pay all cash in college quickly, what would be the best price you consider if there were no real estate commission or other cost to pay anyway? And if you don't get the answer, then you ask a different way. And you say, Can you just give me like a ballpark? That's the second way. The third way is, do you have a best guess? So that's the third way, the fourth way as well. Do you know what other houses are selling for in the area? Right. And go from there and then, OK. Were you expecting retail or would you be able to come off that? No. Some. And what would that look like? Yeah, I guess that's for now at this point. If someone's not getting the answer, you're like, Oh my gosh, what if I again ask again, right? And this is so interesting. And let me know if you've ever experienced this, Joe.

Joe: Oh yeah, I know exactly where you're going. This is good.

Todd: So now someone's, you know, face to face with somebody and they now view this person as sophisticated. They're like this person's sophisticated. They're not that motivated. So now I'm just going to throw it a high number because, you know, they're purposely hiding this from me. And if I go too low, I'm going to lose the deal. So we shrink, go back into our comfort zone and then we do a five or seven thousand dollar deal. OK. I almost have to run to the bathroom because I feel nauseous. OK, no. So now comes the courage face, Joe, the courage face. So Dan Sullivan talks about the four phases of a new capability. Growing right in the first one is commitment, so we did that in the first stage commit. We committed two big deals. The second part, though, is courage. And the courage is what do we do when we get scared, right? What do we feel like we're going to lose the old us? We're going to lose the deal, right? We're going to lose the seller. And so what do we have to do? That's that courage face that Dan Sullivan talks about. And, you know, the third phase of that is what they call capability, where we actually learn how to do this. And the fourth part is actually competence. Well, everyone wants to get right to that. The I'm sorry, I'm sorry. The third is competence where we know how to do it, and the fourth is confidence. Everyone wants the job, the confidence, right? That's where everyone wants to do because it feels good, right? We don't like to be uncomfortable. So we have to jump to that courage face and jump in here. And if they won't give us the number, then you go and really laugh really, really, really low. And so if they're saying, OK, let let's say that you know that you can sell this house for one hundred and fifty two hundred and fifty. I'm going to recommend that you go in and try to make 70 80 grand on that deal. And so going to number so low that you think the seller is going to hang up on, you go solo. Now that comment that their reaction is something that we call a stealth mismatch. So you go so low, it's probably going to listen elicit one or two responses. One, it's going to say I'd consider it. Well, if that's true, get in your car, get over there and get the contract right. Or send a docu sign or get a notary over there.

Joe: Yeah, yeah.

Todd: But two, is there going to be like, Oh my gosh, that was way less than I was expecting. I was expecting x y z. Yeah. Well, obviously now they did have a number in mind. Right? And now you've got the fish on the line, and now you could start that negotiation right there. OK. So that is my first step is that number one, you've got to decide. Number two is that now you've got to have that courage. Ask five different ways if you don't get it and you can say this is on the script, by the way. No limits real estate investing dot com forward slash script.

Joe: Yeah, I'm looking at this right now. It's really, really good.

Todd: Yeah, on there there's the four. There are five questions that you can use, you know, from there. Hey, by the way, if you can embed some your own, I'd love to send those you could, you know, give us some feedback in the comments here. But you've got to ask that. You know, that's really, really, really you've got to ask that.

Joe: So well, this script is fantastic. And if you're watching this or listening to this right now, why have you not gone to get this script? This is something that will again take you from making just five to 10 grand per deal for five to 10 grand a month to 20 30 40 grand or more per deal. Just by asking better questions, right? And the by the way, your scripts have been huge for me in my business, Todd. I don't know why I didn't introduce you with this, but looking back, even at my lease option deals the scripts that you gave in that lease purchase, well, of course, that you had fantastic and the example seller calls that you did. It's just the asking the questions, the negative phrasing, the the takeaway. You have some amazing of some of the best sales training that I've ever seen in any kind of any real estate investor. So again, guys go to no limits real estate investing dot com slash script. And if you're watching this right now, live on YouTube or Facebook, type in the comments. Just tell us, Hi, tell us, follow where you're from, but let us know. Give me a yes. Confirm that you downloaded the script and got it. I literally went to the link and got my got the script from you and my email, like five seconds later. So what else did you want to?

Todd: Yeah. So I'm going to give two more tips. OK? And the second tip that we talk about is conditioning. So understand that this is a process, you know? And I can tell you, I remember when we built the pool in our backyard and it was like a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, right? And the first thing that the contractor did. When he came over, you know, he was just like, you know, this is a big investment in your family, right? I'm not the cheapest guy, you know, out there, but you're going to have, you know, the nicest pool. Everyone's going to be like, Ooh, and I mean. And you know, it's going to be awesome. So I'll send it to you. If you're looking for like a rock bottom price, I'm not the guy who just started. I mean, I'm noticing this and I'm like, Oh, you know? And so he started to say that. And then he then he said to me, You know, if you go to other contractors, you know, you might actually get a lower bid, just heads up. But this is what I do and craftsmanship and, you know, going from there, right? And then he threw in a little bit later, Hey, you know, one of the things we pride ourselves on a speed, right? So you know, we're out of here and eight weeks, eight to 10 weeks, and some other guys just might be lower. They take a little bit longer, you know, and FII. But you know, again, we get compensated for that speed and efficiency, and we never have to come back for any issues whatsoever. So by the time that I got this, my wife was like loving this guy, right? She was loving this guy. And the problem was, is that he built up so much trust and equity, and she conditioned us for so well. By the time, you know, by the time that we got the estimate, I knew it was going to be just astronomical, right? And long story short, he gave us the invoice and we hired in the next day, right, and didn't really shop anybody else. The guy was conditioning us the entire time. It wasn't like just like a bomb.

Joe: Yeah.

Todd: And we love the pool and we use it all the time. We're so glad that we went with him. So you have to do the same thing with sellers from the moment that you go over there, you are giving them options, other options besides you. You're telling him that they're going to trade a little bit of equity for speed and convenience. Again, all in that script that we're going to talk about when you go over to the property. You never argue with a seller. Never, ever, ever argue with a seller. You look at things and I learned this from Sean Terry is you look at imperfections in the house and you never say a word about them. You never argue. You never say, Well, what about this right? You just touch them, look at them, make a funny face, right? And just write it down, write something down. And so you raise the pressure in this. You ask questions like like, you know, how old is the roof?

Joe: How did this happen? Yeah.

Todd: How old is the roof and be like, OK, is it, you know, do you have upgraded plumbing right now, OK? And so you asked that and you don't argue if they say, Well, I built it or it's quality. Just never argue. Just ask questions that will lead to the answer that you want condition, condition, condition, condition and condition, right? And then, you know, you go from there, then you want to build rapport, right? Keep a friend. It's like a it's like a little bob and weave and wield. So so condition, build rapport, condition, build rapport. If they start arguing about the condition, house never do it. Ever, ever, ever. Just keep those thoughts to yourself. And so you want to be doing that the entire time. So even if they quote you a higher price, that they wouldn't go below got to soften them up. Right. Because what we do is we are in the business of treating equity for speed and convenience, right? They trade equity for speed and convenience. Yeah. And the more they understand that right, the better deal you're going to get, I said as I got interviewed on a deal. Remember this size matters. OK. Size matters. Size matters in real estate. It is. It will be the the game changer for your business, I promise you. OK. So that's the second thing I'm going to talk about. But the third thing and this is also so easy. I mean, any single one of these could double your deal size. But this one is one of my favorites, and that is when most people sell a property, they are normally selling to a cash buyer whom they've developed a relationship with, where the cash buyer is the mentor and they're the kind of mentee. It's all over the place, right? And you're like, Oh, and you're wondering maybe if you're one of those people? Well, if you have two or three cash buyers and they're quote unquote friends of yours, right? Guess what? You are one of these people. If you're like, Oh, well, I've got a relationship with this guy. Yeah, well, I bet. I bet you have a relationship with this guy because if you're leaving twenty thirty thousand dollars on the table and every single wholesale deal you do, I'm sure they love you. And there's a reason why they love you so well. All the marketing that you do and all of the work that you do. Don't drop the ball at the five yard line. You want to sell this for the maximum amount of profit, especially in this market. So I'm going to give you a couple of ways to do that. Number one is that I highly suggest that you go and you rebuild your buyer's list. OK, so if you're starting from it now, by the way, if you've you haven't done this right and it's starting over, that's good. You just just know that you need at least at least 40 or 50 active cash buyers. Now, this is not getting a bunch of cash buyers list from other wholesalers. OK, that that is low on my priority list. I want you to do two things. Number one is I want you to either go down to the auction and find everyone who's buying at auction, right? Or you could hire some intern to do that and have someone to do that and pay them, pay somebody twenty five bucks a name to have people sign up on your buyer's list from there. So for me, I've got an. That we hired to go down there and we said, Hey, we're gonna give you 25 bucks a name for every cash buyer that you get at the auction. And we sent him down there and he came back. He was there for two hours and he made three hundred and fifty bucks. That was awesome for him, right? Great for me. And we've got those people on my buyer's list today. The second thing that you can do, though, is go to prop stream and you can download. I know that, John. I think you also have a data company here on the podcast that you recommend. But yeah, so you want to download all the buyers on prop stream. And I would either skip trace them and I would call them, text them and mail them right. And so you, you build a lesson. You have to do it all at once. But over a period of three months, you could build that up to one hundred real significant cash buyers. This is not a bunch of, you know, other wholesalers, real people who, you know, because if you mail to them, you know, they're real. And if you go to the auction, you know they're real. Next to that, every property that you have should be sent out in a format where everybody goes at the same exact time. They get a 15 minute window. You get a property inspection that you get when you have a seller, you actually get a property inspector there at the same time, OK? And so when you go to the house, there's a complete feeding frenzy at the house. The other buyers see it right. The seller see it. And you may be out asking me, How do I handle that? And I can talk about that if you want. And what? You're crazy a bidding, a bidding for the property. And I can tell you that we go from deals that, you know, if you're making 20, you're going to make 50 or 60. If you are making 40, you're going to be making 60 or 70. Right. And so I highly recommend that you do that highly. And if you're not, you're leaving too much money on the table. You're old cash buyer relationships will change. Yeah, it will be upset that you're not selling to them anymore. You're going to have to get past that. Get past that, that awkwardness, right? Don't worry, they'll eventually come back. Right. As long as you're open and upfront and honest about the process. Yeah.

Joe: Do you ever list your properties on the MLS?

Todd: All the time. So I wasn't going to get into that? Yeah, yeah. But I do both of those, so I absolutely recommend that you list the properties on the MLS, but but you do the same process. And so we like to list on the MLS about 10 to 20 thousand dollars lower than we think that we get for the property. So remember when we talk about that whole courage thing, right? People like, Oh my gosh, I don't want to lose too low. Oh my gosh, you know, I'm gonna lose a deal. Trust me on this list. Twenty thousand dollars below what you think it'll sell for. Bid it up. Get a feeding frenzy there. Do a 30 minute window, right? Have your property inspector there, right? And sell it for the highest and best.

Joe: Yeah, that's really good. You could do that for vacant land too, right?

Todd: That's another way to go. Yeah.

Joe: Can I ask you some questions? Well, first of all, we got some comments here, Valerie. Joe, you're the best coach. Thank you very much. Thanks for introducing me to Todd Toback. I signed up for his sales training. Isn't it good? Valerie, thank you, Valerie. Daniel from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. And Todd's the man from Facebook user. Nice to living legends right here. Cool, guys. Thanks for the comments. Keep on, bring them in and again, go to no limits. Real estate investing dot com slash script. No limits real estate investing dot com slash script and download the script. I'm looking at it right now. Super simple but super powerful on how to talk to sellers. All right, so I want to ask you some questions today about one of the things I learned from you early on was about not letting your leads fall through the cracks. No lead left behind. Yup. Talk about that a little bit. What does that mean?

Todd: Sure. Well, one of the things that I'm really going to reiterate, Joe, is, you know, a lot of people think, Oh my gosh, what's the what's the my favorite marketing channel to use? Or I did this marketing channel and it didn't work. And I find that laughable because I'll say, Well, what do you do with all the leads that you got, right? What would have happened to, you know, the how many leads Jabbar had 200. OK, when was the last time you called any of those people? So think about this. What are the chances that a motivated seller is ready to sell the exact time that you send them a text or a voicemail or a call or a mailing piece? What are the chances that when they get is that the exact time that they're ready to move?

Joe: Oh very, very small.

Todd: Very small. But most people treat that now like, OK, if these people don't call and that smoking hot ready to go right now, I'm just going to let it go. I could tell you that ninety five percent of our deals are follow up. So every deal that comes with our database, every every call, there has to be some kind of follow up task to follow up with that person and or you send a written offer, right? And or and then there's follow up tasks month after month after month after month after month. Yeah, pretend like you spend, I don't know, two thousand dollars a month in marketing, which I think maybe is the the average for a new investor, right? Dollars a week. All of that money, right, will be come back to you three to four months from now. Right. If you're expecting to come back in a month. Right. That's why you are not maximizing the deals. One of the things that I'm going to tell you, especially especially doing big deals, Joe, imagine that you have sense. Again, I want to use the numbers here for the, you know, smaller numbers here. But let's say you're spending a thousand dollars a month and over a year you spend $12000. And because of that, you did two deals and you average $15000 a deal. So that's $30000 and you spend 12. Well, if you take a look at your profit margin, that's OK, right? But imagine for a moment and this is one hundred percent real life that if you no one close to more deals because of what I'm telling you right today about number one, following up with those prospects that you missed by not following up every single month and now you increase that deal from 20 to 40. Right. Well, now you brought in two $40000 deals, so that's 80000. And now you're all deals which were, let's say, were fifteen. Fifteen thousand apiece is 30 right? You now added an additional 25 to that each. So that's additional 50. Right. So 80 plus 50 is 130 plus the original 30 that you were going to make one 60s. Excuse me if I messed up my math here, right? But now you made 160 on a $12000 spent. Look at those game changing numbers. Game complete game changer. Yeah, yeah.

Joe: Very good. Nice. And it's all about, you know, I think of it as like, you're never going to hit a target that you're not aiming at. Yeah. And when I was, there is a period of time in like twenty eleven twenty twelve when I was transitioning from less options to more cash wholesaling deals. And we were talking about these same things back then, Todd. But I had an acquisitions manager at the time. He was a great guy, but he was like, I can't believe we can make this much money doing what we're doing. And he was happy to make three grand a deal. He could not believe that you could make 10 grand or more. And he says, Joe, like three thousand dollars, that's a lot of money. That's as much as you make in a month as a part time pastor. I said, Well, OK, yeah, it is, but we need to shoot higher. And he said, But Joe, I go to the RIAs and everybody says the average profit per deals here are like three to five grand. Yeah. Nobody makes more than five grand. And so I said, All right, let's do this. And I walked him through this process. It took about a month. I said, I want you to instead of trying to get three, I want you to try to get 5000. All right, and just put that into your offer. And I gave him a formula to put $5000 and expect that or I just started expecting that. So after a week, we did a few deals like that and I said, All right, next week, let's try to get seventy five hundred dollars. And then after that, we went to $10000 dollars and after that we went to 15. But right about that time, we parted ways as friends and he started doing his own thing. But like every time I made him aim higher. Guess what happened? We started making more profit more because he was just expecting it. He was asking for it. And he went from by the. We worked together about a year, but he went from just happy and thrilled to make three grand a deal to making 10 to 15 grand on the deal. Just it's all in the head. Isn't it?

Todd: Completely right. I mean, now ironically, you could have told them thirty right thousand dollars, right? He accepted it. And the funny thing is, I say, if people will say, well, people around here do three to five thousand dollars. Well, I always say, well, that immediately tells me I need to raise it right because if I'm doing what the majority is doing right, then I know I'm in trouble. Yeah, right. I say, you are renegade. So if you want to be in the top one percent right, then you've got to be different, right? You got to be, you know, shaking things up, be the trendsetter. And, you know, don't go back to the norm. You know, I mean, everyone who does anything amazing does things just a little bit different.

Joe: All right. So what other tips do you have, Todd? How to make more money per deal? How to squeeze more juice out of that lemons?

Todd: Well, the first thing is, remember to download a script. I mean, that's the biggest thing. So get to know that script. Understand it, you know, make it part of your absolute bones. I'll give you one more tip here, OK, and how to do much bigger deals. So what we have found? So right now, we've got approximately a dozen deals that we have right now that we're going to make about $80000 on average. I always thought those are all, some are 50, some are 120, you know, but we just had our average right now with what we have under contract. Either that we were owning it and it's on the market or we're going to wholesale is about $80000.

Joe: The average profit on each one?

Todd: Yeah, average.

Joe: I thought you said the total.

Todd: No, average of eight. So, you know, 12 times 8. So about a million bucks.

Joe: And which market?

Todd: Both in well, it just I mean, just in flow, that's just in Florida. So that one market is there right now. I mean, you're Birmingham has I partners on the ground there. But they said about they've got 350 to four hundred on a contract, they're nice. So, you know, and again, that's just for what's going to be closing in the next two to three months that's under contract. But the one thing that I would say is if you have a property, right, the bigger the problem that you solve, the more money that you're going to make. But there is a diminishing return there. Right. So I don't suggest people get into the rehab game. That's not my recommendation to you. But if you can solve a problem that most people view as really scary, but it's super easy for you, do you think you should take a look at that? Yeah, yeah. You know, so the thing I'd say is, OK, where where can you make the most money for the little downside? So we're a big fan of either improving the properties situation before closing or buying it and handling a problem that's big to some people, but actually small to us. And then selling the property. Let me give you two two examples. Number one is we love houses that are like the hoarder houses, right? They're filled with crap. They're disgusting, they smell. You know, we've got a couple of those right now. I mean, there's dog feces everywhere and it's just nasty. Right? We know that once we get it and we just clean it out, we don't fix anything, but we just clean it out, pull out the carpets and stick a right back on the market. We know that we could sell that for 40 grand more, right? Forty thousand dollars more, just like that, right? Super easy. And we can do that. So I tell everybody, you want to line up private money or get partners so that you have the a bill or line up a hard money letter, which is so easy in this market. I mean, money is everywhere, so I feel like I don't have the money. Yes, you do. We're going to do a whole other podcast about that. Just that. So that's the first thing. The second thing, though, is or by the way, you could have that with a bad tenant. So we will take over a house that has a month to month lease that's got a tenant that's going to be in there for the 60 days. We'll get it, get them cash for keys, get it vacant and handle that situation. The third thing, though, is that maybe there's a bigger deal, but it's not. You don't want to take it down, right? Maybe the risk is not worth actually buying it and taking it. So here's a little trick you can actually improve the property before you close on. While you don't own it? OK. So Joe, you're famous for lease options. This is kind of like a short term lease option because you control the property without owning it. So, for example, if the margins are too thin for us to take it down or we don't want to take it down means buy it. We'll go in and we'll say, Hey Mister Seller, do you mind if we just clean out the property before we close? Right? Give us a head start. Right. And we could start marking our end right nine times out of 10. No problem. Yeah, you're going to clean out all the trash. Great. So we'll come in. Clean out the trash. Stick it right on the mark, too. Maybe you got a nasty tenant in there. Maybe the mortgage is not good enough to take down. Get this out, the seller to give you power of attorney. To get the tenant out. Get a vacant. Put it on the market. Wholesale it that way, you can make an extra 20, 30, 40 thousand dollars without taking it down. And so people think this is some big Herculean effort. Remember, I mean, all these little tweaks are going to send your profit to the roof, right? No one. I mean, just to summarize, no one expects more. You expect more. You're going to do more. Number two, use the script right. It's right on the screen. No limits real estate investing.com forward slash script. Yeah, right? Three. You know, negotiate harder for get a lot of cash buyers that are going to bid for your properties and then five do stuff for the property even before you close to sell it for more. It's OK if you do for the right way and one doesn't work out right? Do the math, do the math right, and you're going to see your profit go through the roof. So yeah, that's all I got for today. There's lots more. I mean, we could go on for hours and hours and hours, but that's I think that's all I'm going to cover on today's episode.

Joe: That's fantastic. Todd Toback No limit real estate investing, no limits real estate investing dot com slash script and you can see the I'm looking at it right now. It's just great. Very simple seller script for motivated seller leads. Todd, do you have a good podcast as well? No Limits Real Estate Investing podcast. It's been. You've been doing this for a long, long time and you come out with episodes. What about twice a week? It looks like two or three times a week, twice a week? Yup. Nice. Six Rules for quickly solving issues and challenges or conflicts in your real estate business. A step by step walkthrough of our in-house motivated seller script. What do you say when the seller says no? How does it get sellers to agree to do business with you before even going on the appointment? How? Oh, I love this. How to find local drivers to find smoking hot wholesale deals for you. How to get out of your comfort zone and reach your next level in business. How how to mentally prepare sellers to accept a lowball offer. That's fantastic. And what do you do when you find out you're competing with other wholesalers for the same property?

Todd: That was a really popular episode, by the way. There was that just came out. A lot of people, a lot of people downloaded that one.

Joe: Maybe can you talk about it just real quick? What do you do when you find out there's other wholesalers competing against the same property you're talking to?

Todd: They're going to have to listen to the episode.

Joe: Oh, all right, and they can find that podcast just by go to any podcast player, do a search for no limits real estate investing podcast, or do a search for Todd to go back and you will find and leave him a good review. Leave him a good review if you're listening to him on Apple Podcasts.

Todd: And by the way, if you download the scripts right, you'll be on our email list, so you'll also get notifications of the new episodes that come out. Nice.

Joe: Cool, Todd. Any parting thoughts you want to give to us?

Todd: No, I mean, get out of your comfort zone. Get out of your comfort zone. Make it happen. I can tell you that this business has changed my life. If you do it, I'm telling you it'll it'll change yours. And this is the difference between success and failure. And I can tell you that in my business, just our team loves it, right? Less deals, bigger deals, and you're going to feel like you're off. The treadmill and running through the mountains at a million miles an hour, so

Joe: Do you still have your and your podcast? Do you still have the. Oh, the ones you did with Tommy, your brother?

Todd: Yeah, those are the old ones are still on there. Are they on there? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting because we update a lot of stuff has changed, right or not. That's what it did do or die series. A lot of stuff has changed since then, you know, but it's interesting listening to those old ones.

Joe: Yeah. So when you go to his podcasts or go to his website, Loan Limits Real Estate Investing Podcast No Limits Real Estate Investing dot com, you can find your old episodes there, right? Yeah, we had an episode series they did with Tom Kroll, his brother called the Do or Die series, and that was when Tom was just getting started in the business and the very inspirational motivational. It's exciting to see a great coach that you are pushing somebody who wasn't necessarily listening to you and everything you told him to do, but eventually figured it out. Yeah, you're right. I need to do it. You say, stop questioning that and stop changing things. Really, really fantastic. Well, thank you, Todd. You're a good friend. Appreciate your friendship. I appreciate your wisdom and your help and the inspiration to the good things that you're doing in our industry in this space. Keep up the good work, man.

Todd: Thanks, my man.

Joe: One more time guys go to no limits real estate investing dot com slash script and get his script right there. You'll be glad you did. We'll see y'all later. Thanks, Todd.

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