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Jamie Goldenberg built a successful land investing business while working a full-time job. He’s always had an interest in real estate and decided to get started in 2019. Jamie tried wholesaling first while he was living in Chicago but got into land after making a serendipitous connection with coach Willie Goldberg. Willie helped Jamie focus on revenue-generating activity and he eventually took the plunge and bought his first property. Today, Jamie averages about 10-20K per month in deals and is currently working to move into a bigger market value.

We walk through how Jamie does business and the tools he uses to get things done. One of the most important things is building rapport with sellers. Jamie shares his marketing plan as well as how he targets geographical areas to prospect. As we often discuss, mindset is key when trying to build and scale a real estate business. Making mistakes is a given and it’s all about what you learn from them and how you move forward. Jamie’s a great example of someone who keeps pushing through what holds him back.

Watch and Learn:

Listen and learn:

What’s inside:

  • How Jamie makes 10-20K per month in land investing.
  • Tools and strategies Jamie uses to maintain and grow his business.
  • Jamie’s advice to people just getting started.

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcription:

Download episode transcript in PDF format here…

 Joe: Welcome. This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery Podcast. Hey, what's going on, everybody? Joe McCall Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast, Hey. Got a great episode today. We're going to be interviewing a friend of mine, a brand new friend of mine named Jamie Goldenberg, who quit his job recently to do land investing full time. Land investing is one of my favorite things to talk about right now. It's something that I've been doing for a while. Kind of part partpart time with my two teenage boys, and they've been making very good money with it. And now we're starting to do it more full time. I'm even creating a little course about it because all y'all have been asking me forever to create a course on land investing. There's a lot of guys that have really good programs out there. I have my own spin, my own little unique twist on it. And so I love land investing, and it's been a very profitable venture for me and I still do lease options when they come across my table. Lease options are what I kind of cut my teeth with, but I am a big believer in a big fan in flipping vacant land for one simple reason. Really, it's so much easier to do than house is right now in this market. And so we're going to be talking about that with Jamie Brook. He's going to be on here in a second. I just want to let you know, too, that this podcast is brought to you by the Freedom Soft Joe McCall Signature Edition. It's it's an amazing tool. I've been using freedom soft for years and I use it for my land business, my house business and freedom soft, I've customized it in the Joe McCall Signature Edition for land investors. And so it has all my marketing pieces in there. My land websites, my letters, my follow up letters, my offers, my contracts and then workflow automations. Workflow automation is was what Freedom Soft calls the follow up stuff, you know, so you can get freedom soft Joe that hundreds of leads dot com. Why hundreds of leads dot com? Because within minutes we show you in this video how you can literally get hundreds of leads within a few minutes. Buyers and sellers and how you can manage all the leads do the follow up. Do the mail do the research. It's an amazing tool and I think you're going to like it a lot. So go check out the webinar I did with Rob Swanson right there at hundreds of leads dot com, hundreds of leads dot com. Cool, by the way, before I bring Jamie on here, this is a live podcast as I'm recording this right now. So hello to all you guys on YouTube and Facebook, but also hello to you guys listening on the audio podcast. I so appreciate you guys. We've been doing the podcast on audio for over 11 years. It's crazy almost 1100 episodes and we're still going strong. We've got over 10 million downloads listeners and over 170 different countries. Last I looked. So it's an amazing, awesome platform. I really, really do appreciate you guys listening to the show. If you're watching this right now, live on YouTube and Facebook, please type in the comments. Say hello, tell us where you are, where you're from, and if you have questions for us about anything we're talking about in this podcast, now's a good time to bring it up. Any questions or highlights or comments or aha moments. I like, man, that's awesome. Type it in the comments, and I have the ability to show it down below here. Maybe you'll be famous or something like that does. All right, cool let's bring Jamie on. Jamie, how are you, my man?

Jamie: Joe, I'm great. How are you?

Joe: Good. I pronounce your last name, right? Goldenberg?

Jamie: Yes, it is.

Joe: Awesome. And you're in Kansas? No. No, you're you went. You're from Kansas, but you're in North Carolina now. Is that right?

Jamie: Yes, that's correct.

Joe: All right, cool. So tell us a little bit about how you got into real estate. You went to the University of Kansas. What major did you get while you were there?

Jamie: Yes, I majored in finance, and my older brother actually is a commercial broker, and I've always had this kind of interest in real estate because of him. And it was actually about three years ago at my full time job, which great introduction. A quick side story. Yes. So I my full time job actually starts to have a back. So I'm working. I sell a little bit, so I wouldn't have officially quit my job, but I still do full time. I still have a great land business. I kind of just I'm able to balance just just so people know. So anyway.

Joe: So you probably I'm going to guess you don't have to tell me if it's true or not. You probably get some good benefits, maybe with your job that are nice to have like health insurance or something like that. Is that right?

Jamie: Yeah, that's hard. The biggest one.

Joe: Let me just stop you right there. Health insurance. I'm not saying this to brag. It's kind of ridiculous. Actually, we spent twenty almost twenty one thousand dollars in 2021 for health insurance for me and my family, twenty one thousand dollars I spent for health insurance being self-employed. So you all got to think about when you were thinking about quitting your job or when you hear Jamie say you are still working a little bit health benefit.

Jamie: And I think in families.

Joe: Especially if you have a family, I have four kids, a wife and four kids. Do you have kids yourself, Jamie?

Jamie: I don't not.

Joe: Not yet. Come on, brother. All right. Got it. OK, so anyway, and you're in the financial services space?

Jamie: Yeah. So it started in financial services. I ended up working for an energy company doing. Development, and it was around three years ago I was kind of frustrated at work and at home one day, and I have to figure this out. I don't really want to work for someone anymore. So I started writing down ideas of what I can be doing on my own kind of more entrepreneurial. And then I finally picked up rich dad, poor dad. And and that's really what got my my head spinning out my years trying, I guess, towards like, OK, real estate where I want to go.

Joe: How many years this is?

Jamie: So I read that book probably three and a half four years ago. Cool. I started land investing in July of 2019. That was like when I was not too long ago.

Joe: So you found land pretty quickly then.

Jamie: So I tried wholesaling at first. So I was like one of my first ventures, and I had very little money saved up. And that same story as like, OK, how long are you in the real estate with no money? I was trying, wholesaling at the time I was living in Chicago, so wholesaling was taking me to some really sketchy areas around Chicago. I just wasn't really comfortable with that and I wasn't having that much success. Wholesaling. And so it was kind of serendipitous. I went on a bike ride with a friend and I actually met on this bike ride. I met Willy Goldberg.

Joe: I was just going to ask. Well, he's been on my show twice, and he's in Chicago.

Jamie: Yep. So he's up. So he's kind of a friend of a friend, we don't know. So I ended up talking with them about kind of telling my story what I was trying to do and the exact same story as doing the same thing as I'm doing now. Like, here's the success I've had,

Joe: By the way, Jamie, sorry to keep interrupting. You even talked like him when you just said that and where you were explaining, I don't know if it's a Midwest thing, but anyway. I don't know.

Jamie: Anyways, I was just so I ended up taking like that. He shot me over his like free kind of course you had at the time, and then I ended up paying, paying that coach. So go on to your introduction as far as like starting a course and stuff like that saying I truly believe in. And a lot of that's because of Willie and the the success that had once I had him in my corner, I had him to help me with deals and and he really helps explain my business growth, which is awesome.

Joe: One of the things I like about Willie in you also find that podcast I've done too with him. Just go to the real estate Investing Mastery dot com website and do a search for Willie G. You'll find my two episodes with him. The thing I like about what he does is it doesn't have to be perfect, right? Like if you if you see what he does, you'll see you'll find spelling mistakes and you'll find like it looks like it's just rushed and put together. But guess what? He's having tremendous success. He doesn't overanalyze things. He takes massive, imperfect action. And he's very doing very, very well in his land business because it's just it's just ready. Fire aim with his approval.

Jamie: I think one thing that Willie does really well is he focuses part revenue generating activity, so that's where his mind's always are. It's like, how can I? Where's the revenue generating activity I can do? How does this help produce revenue for my business? And that was one thing that he didn't realize. He didn't give me that term, per se. But he I think he embodies that and that's what he really helped me with. I don't mess with struggle too much with analysis paralysis or paralysis by analysis. Excuse me, but I do get like that fear of like, OK, you know, buying that first property is like, Who's going to buy this? We're all vacant lot. I'm like, Why am I buying this? Is this going to work? And is, you know, having him in my corner at that time saying, No, this is going to work. Trust me, I this have a good way. And so he really gave me what he gave me were coaching gives me is what they felt confident they needed to take that take that first big step of buying property, sending mail because they had no wholesaling. I was doing some of that stuff, but I wasn't having the success yet, so I was more just going deeper and deeper into the hole.

Joe: Okay, all right. So this was twenty nineteen. You were doing land.

Jamie: That's what I started July. I think my first mailer went out August 2019. I bought the first property I bought was August 2019, from property sales that October 2019.

Joe: So two and a half years ago? Yes. All right. So what? What areas of the country were you targeting at that time?

Jamie:Yes, I was looking for really cheap properties. I started out in Kern County, California, and I worked that area for a little while and I expanded quite a lot since then.

Joe: OK, I want to go deeper into your story, but talk a little bit about where you are now. What what kind of volume do you average a month now?

Jamie: Yeah. So I'm doing anywhere from like 10 to twenty thousand a month. Right now, I'm I'm kind of working on different strategies to I'm moving away a little bit from I call what I call a Willie's method of kind of quantity in massive deals where I'm moving more towards keeping the deal flow up, but trying to get bigger and moving into a bigger market value. So that's kind of how I'm working my business right now with my current mindset. And you mentioned like I cut my teeth on the finance deals, right? And so now I have a great finance portfolio, and now I'm I'm asking myself, how do I level up this business? But so that's that's kind of where I'm at, at the business I'm doing right now.

Joe: So what percent of your 10 to 20 grand? A month is from note, one percent is just from wholesaling.

Jamie: It's about 70 percent from those

Joe: 70 percent from notes. So then the swing of 10 grand is from when you wholesale the deal or not. Is that what you're saying?

Jamie: That's correct.

Joe: Nice. So on your notes, what on average are you collecting on a monthly basis on your notes and how many notes do you have?

Jamie: Yes, on average, I'm just I'm just on a 200. It's like 185 ish. And right now I have 36 active notes,

Joe: So, you have thirty six active notes.

Jamie: Mm-Hmm. And they range from when I first started, I was doing a lot of the $99 a month, but now I'm closer. I've been doing my more recent notes they do or more between 250 to 500 plus OK a month. They steal a little bit more on the day. The market are higher because of that, but I have to be a little bit more. The buyers are a little more consistent.

Joe: Once you have them. So when you said one hundred and eighty five is that number of deals you've done?

Jamie: I've done right around eighty three deals.

Joe: Eighty three deals. OK, so what was the one? Eighty four?

Jamie: That was my my average month.

Joe: Oh, your average monthly? OK, OK, I'm sorry.

Jamie: Sorry, I didn't answer that question.

Joe: No, nice. I'm just trying to get to the detailed numbers, so people kind of understand and get a picture of it. Mm hmm. So about 30 percent of your deals that come in, you wholesale them for cash, right?

Jamie: I'll buy them, so I'll buy them and then resell them. So I have I do a little bit of wholesaling, but that's a very small part of my business. I thought when I'm talking to someone on the phone, you know, I'm offering 30 25 to 40 percent, depending on the property. And when that buyer is willing to maybe take like a 50 percent purchase price, maybe it's something I don't want to I don't want, you know, put my money with you at risk for it. So I'll talk to them about how I can help you wholesale this and explain that process to them. And so that's that's a pretty small part of my business.

Joe: All right. So when you say wholesale, you know, because sometimes we think of it different ways like I've always used wholesale, the term wholesale for land is just when you when you actually close on it, then you sell it and you work for cash, right? But you can also wholesale where you don't actually close on the deal. Right? You just you just sell your contract. So you do it like a double clothes or an assignment or something like that.

Jamie: Yeah. So that's that's what I think of when I say wholesale. I think when you see how you're using wholesale, I think of that more as resale. Oh, OK. Or, you know, like a flip, like when I talk to people like, what do you do it? I say, Well, you can think of me as a land flipper, right? Pick a house now with land. So, all right.

Joe: So talk about that a little bit because the what you define as wholesaling, you get a property under contract and you you flip that contract without you closing on it. OK. Hmm. First of all, when you're talking to a seller, how does your conversation go with them when you're using that strategy?

Jamie: Yeah, great question. So I mean, I think the first and most important thing is I'm building rapport with them. I'm trying to understand why they want to sell. And you know, and I'm trying to understand how long I've been on the property. You know, why do you want to sell this property? What were your plans of this property? Accelerate some of that trust? And then basically what we get to is, let's say, let's say, the market value for the properties $10000 and I'm offering for like, well, you know, I really admire them for it. We get six and then essentially, I'll explain them and say, Hey, Joe, you know what we're going to do for you, Joe, is I can help you sell that property. I'm not a real estate agent. But one thing I do is I do work a lot of land buyers. So you know what I'll do is this whole wholesaling where I'll get your property in the contract. It gives me the right to market this property. And what I'm sure I do, Joe is going to try to sell it for a fella over 6000 and whatever I sell for, I'm going to cover all closing costs and you're going to get your six thousand and I'll get whatever I get on top of that. So I just try to be really honest with them and explain to them that process, because one thing I feel like I've learned is that especially with those lower market deals, which I'll call like that call under 15000 as real estate agents in particular, they're not as they're not as eager to jump on those deals. Smaller check for them. So a lot of the people who have these properties want to sell them, and maybe it's a little harder for them to work with a realtor. So that's the value that I'm providing to them is, Hey, let me help you get rid of this property. You don't have to go put it on Craigslist by yourself, deal with these buyers. And then essentially, exactly you said I have like a title company I like to work with. They kind of know the deal more often than the assignment contract, and they'll find that to the buyer and they can handle the handle how it all gets paid out. The the owner actually gets paid at six thousand. I get paid. Let's call it, we sell for 10. I'm getting paid four thousand minus closing higher. So call it three thousand 2500 3000. So it's nothing crazy outside the small fry business, and most people aren't interested in that, but it's just a tactic I use when I'm talking to sellers on the phone. And another way just to jump that revenue generating activity, keep that. In mind.

Joe: Is this a nationwide title company that you use, or do you have to find a local title company that lets you helps you with this one?

Jamie: Yeah, I use I use local companies anywhere in the country.

Joe: OK, cool.

Jamie: That's much for at least.

Joe: All right. Some people here are listening. We're not going to kind of go through the ages, the nuts and bolts of how to do a vacant land deal because we've done a lot of podcasts like that in the past. Let's talk about some of your marketing. What are some of the marketing methods that you like to use to find your your land deals.

Jamie: To find on the seller side or the buyer side?

Joe: Sellers.

Jamie: So I'm involved for the most part of direct mail call. I will, so I do a lot of research on the front and right. I'm looking for good markets. I'm looking for really marketing. I look at different markets, mainly based on their market value time, determining where I'm going and I'm just getting that, getting that data and mailing list. So they kind of meet my criteria. And I use different mailers like in a new area. Sometimes I start out with a neutral offer and, yeah, neutral and neutral. And you get all my phone calls that way. And that's to me, it's market research as well as finding that that distressed seller is right. So, I mean, answering a phone, call them keeping information and keeping notes on a visual. Everyone wants to sell a property for $12000 to $15000, so that's where I can tell a story for these things to market that so then I can go back. If I'm getting a few deals, I'll go back and I'll I'll just my prices based on what I based on that market that I was receiving directly. And then when I do find a good area, especially if it's a smaller, especially if it's a smaller area and it's like a non-disclosure state, if I do, I'll skip trace some of those. I'll call the people and I'll do some of that, you know, just direct cold calls. OK, but I don't do that too often unless I'm really hyper targeting an area.

Joe: All right. And then what? How often do you send a blind offer letter?

Jamie: So most of my it's probably I don't know the exact number in my head, but I probably spend about 20 to 25 percent neutral offers and I'm 75 percent blind offers.

Joe: OK. Have you ever we're running into this right now with some of our counties where you find little pockets in that county where you just get a lot of calls, right? And then you start to get nervous thinking, Oh man, this must be in a way that is very difficult to sell properties in or must be in a way that is difficult to work with. And people are just sick of it and they want to get out. Do you do you what do you do when you find that kind of an area or a pocket where you're getting a lot of calls from a lot of people in that little area right there?

Jamie: Yeah. So that's that brings up two flags for me, right? One is exactly is that is this an area that people don't want to be in this new year if you are just trying to get rid of their properties, doesn't matter what it costs, right? That's like a red flag, right? The other one is especially with the blind offer and like with my blind offer, too high. I mean, he just made phone calls. Is it because I'm offering too much? So that's where I maybe readjust my strategy. All right. One, I just want number one first. And that's where it comes to building that rapport on the phone with people, which is why I like to talk to sellers. May I do use a service to have a live answer? And then I talked to the seller so I can understand why they want to sell. And then if I'm hearing that, I'm hearing, you know, well, I felt like the buyer, you know, trying to get that out of them. That's right. They're like, OK, maybe this isn't the right spot for me to invest in a lot of that. Just you have to just talk to the people. And then the second one idea is, okay, I'm not getting that type of feedback from the seller on the phone. It doesn't seem like it's necessarily a bad, bad area. So I think my offer is probably too high. So maybe I'm going to just that five to 10 percent lower.

Joe: OK. You know, with owner financing, though, I mean, it seems like in my experience, just people I've talked to. When you're selling a piece of land with owner financing, it's almost impossible not to sell it. There's always going to be somebody that will be willing to make payments on it. So like, would you still buy a vacant lot in another way like that that has restrictions, you know, you can't camp on it more than six months out of the year like that. Would you still buy a lot of cheap and sell it to an owner financing in that kind of neighborhood? That makes sense.

Jamie: Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I I agree with you. I'll get to that. I remember when I was about a year or so into this year and a half an hour into it, the seller who he owns, like hundreds of properties I ended up buying like three properties for him, and that really is what helped through my business really fast was this one kind of deal. And also no one fear coming into my business, like in my head of like, Oh my gosh, like, am I going to be able to do this? Like, this is a mistake. And now I have all these properties, all these notes, right? And like, what if the market crashes? What if this happens? And I thought I got really I got really scared in the business. They were like, Oh, they would have happened. They 100 and I have like all these defaults, right? And I actually got a chance to I don't know if you know. The real estate, radio guys. Yeah. So I got a chance to talk with Russell Gray at a conference, and I try to tell him, I'm like, Well, it's gone through like mentally. And that's the one thing he said to me is like, you know, if you want to sell on underfinanced, like you're always going to able to find buyers, there's always going to be people in the market who are who are willing to do that, especially if especially if you're buying right. And what he meant by that was like, I'm not buying what's in the middle of nowhere with no access, etcetera. So go to your question. The big thing for me is to understand that pocket right now is the issue. How much is the cost one? So if I'm going to sell owner finance HUAC plus taxes and I end up holding it for X amount of months? And what was the cost to me? What's my risk? That's the first thing I can't take into account, and that's OK. What? What can I sell this for with the market value? So if it meets my criteria as far as, like now, it has good access. It has a bonafide zone, a wetland, etc. I say typical things, and yes, I normally still move forward. But sometimes, you know, it's kind of enough understanding, understanding the rules and better not just from the seller side, but from the actual age away.

Joe: It's funny you talking about this because like, I've done lots of deals. I don't know how many, but I still get a fear every time I go into a new market. Man, am I going to get stuck with this deal if I buy it right? What if I don't sell it? What if there's something wrong with it? Because it's just a fear that you know you get better with handling it the longer you are in the business, right? But it's a new county. It's a new state. You've never been there before. There's always these little things that will crop up and try to discourage you, and I don't know what it is. There's these gremlins out there, and it's not just for land, right? It's it's for houses and stuff like that. But yeah, I hear that a lot.

Jamie: It's something I really had to work with on myself. Like, that's been what I realized about two years, probably three, five, six months ago. I think the biggest thing holding me back is my own head because I do enter these new areas and I do get this fear. I like to do. I really know what I'm doing. Like I have, you know, I have this success, but really, no, I just want to work in this area. And you know, part of it's is trusting that process because you've developed it, you've made mistakes. You learn from those mistakes. But same thing still happens to me, right? I mean, I've been doing it for a while now. Less time you have. So that's kind of reassuring to me that that's what like my ultimate experience was. I kind of know I still like when you're doing it day to day, it's it'sdefinitely something that that has slowed my business down because of me second guessing myself and probably passing on deals that I shouldn't have passed on. Yeah.

Joe: What's your goal when you're selling with owner financing? Is it to make your money back in a year?

Jamie: Yeah, that's typically my goal.

Joe: Can you guys let me let me rewind a little bit? Do you understand what that means? You'll make your money back in one year, and if you're using your own cash, that's a 100 percent cash on cash return in your first year. That is really, really good. Hundred percent cash on cash return people that are buying houses, rental properties or apartment buildings or whatever, they're hoping to get 10 to 12 percent cash on cash, maybe 15 percent if they're really, really good. Speaking of the rich dad poor dad book, he talks a lot about that in there, right? Mm hmm. Getting 100 percent cash on cash return on your money is phenomenal.

Jamie: Just incredible. Yeah, I think I'm on the housing side like residential housing. I think a slam dunk deal somewhere there is 11, 12 percent. Mm-Hmm.

Joe: That's good. That's a good deal with leverage without going into a bunch of debt.

Jamie: Mm hmm. And one thing I'll say to that to kind of your point here too, though, is that it does depend on the market value of the property. So if it's, you know, I think if you get above 10 15000 that getting paid back in that first year is a little bit more unrealistic. All right.

Joe: So you had 50 percent cash on cash return.

Jamie: Exactly. So yeah, that's so great. You know, with, you know, relative relative to the other, this is a real estate. It's still fantastic.

Joe: Some of you guys are asking some good questions here, Ralph. Yes, I love that hundred percent return first year. That's awesome. Liz has a good question here, and we'll answer that in a second. I just want you all to know if you're watching this or listening on Facebook YouTube right now. Type in the comments and we can put your questions down below for Jamie right now. Jamie, let's talk about your funds for your deals, right? So I'm assuming you probably use some of your own money to acquire your first few deals. Are you still using your own money or are you partnering with other people? You're borrowing private money. What are you doing there?

Jamie: That's a great question. I think this is probably the biggest hurdle everyone runs into right away in this business. So when I first started, I, I started with my own, with my own capital. But after my first basically round of buying properties, I was out of capital and I really didn't know what to do. I looked at using fund and grow and a few things like that, but I actually had a friend approach me. I had like. One or two like cash, cash sales. I just talked to him about it a couple of times and he came to me is like, Hey, if I gave you. I think if I gave you $10000, can we go do this to others? So. So ever since then, I started using partners on most of my deals. So probably about 60 percent of the deals, I mean, for with our partner. So it varies on kind of the profit split, depending on the deal. And sometimes I'll throw money into the water. So I have different structures that I work, but I definitely utilize outside OPM, other people's money doing these deals.

Joe: All right. So you will you'll put instead of paying them an interest rate, you're you're partnering with them and splitting percent of the profits, right? Correct. What is some of the range that you split of the profits?

Jamie: It's generally from my third. So I'm just I'm generally getting anywhere from 70 to 50 percent. OK.

Joe: 60 to 70 percent.

Jamie: 70. OK. So 50 to 70. So they're getting some from my partner is getting anywhere from 30 to 50 percent.

Joe: OK, cool. Yeah. Somebody just asked that question. How do you partner your youryour deal? So you're you'reyou're doing a JV agreement. The nice thing about that is you don't have to make payments if you don't receive money from that in that month on that deal, you don't have to make an interest payment to your investor. Right? Yes.

Jamie: I mean, the one thing too that I've learned is communicating with that partner when that situation happens, because you do get people who default on your properties, it's inevitable, especially when you're in those lower market values, because once saying like nine dollars a month, they might not be the most financially secure person. So if they if something happens to them, they might lose the ability to pay you. So what I've learned with that is just just to always communicate that with your partner, with your, with your partner. So they're in the loop. And so they're not like, Hey, Jamie, where's where's my monthly payment or how are you? Some people do monthly so-called quarterly, but that's at home. I think it's going to. The communication is clear.

Joe: All right, cool. Let's talk about tools, CRMs. First of all, where are you getting your lists from?

Jamie: Yes, I use priced. Cool. I used to use data tree as a I'm a recent convert to price, which is the data trees data. So I think price is great. And that's where I'm going off my list nowadays.

Joe: What have you found with theirtheir pricing, you know, because they'll scrape actives and solds to get approximate pricing? What are there's any tricks or hacks that you've found to get better pricing from them? Are there is a good just kind of the default settings in how it comes out.

Jamie: I think that, excuse me, I think price is pretty good. I think it's a good data point, especially. So I like how they break it down, too. You can like before you download the data, you can have part of the part of the data download. You can have it break it from like a five percent to a 95 percent offer range. So, you know, I think generally mostly investors are anywhere from 25 to 40 percent like that's what they're offering, right? So to me, I like this. I like to look at that and then I do my own research, right? And not just relying on on price, especially when you're in those smaller pockets like that issue example a right. I'm not really familiar with what our properties for sale and selling for. And I think generally prices in that ballpark. Yeah, but not always the non-disclosure states. That obviously is better than the description or the disclosures are better than others.

Joe: Yeah, yeah, for sure. OK, so who do you use to send your mail through?

Jamie:Yeah. So this is kind of combined. But so I used Pebble from my CRM. OK, cool. So which is a great CRM. So I can send emails through them, and I also do so. And then they use rocket print and mail. Yeah. So I was using rocket print and mail, and then now it's mostly just on Pebble.

Joe: OK, cool. Pebble is a CRM that Jesse Kwong has built. If you're curious and I've interviewed him on my podcast, if you go to real estate investing mastery rt.com, look at my podcast and go to the search bar. Just search for K.W., O-N-G, Kwong, and there's a good episode I did with him, and so is

Jamie: He has a lot of great resources on his website.

Joe: So talk about Pebble a little bit. I've looked into it. I like freedom soft, better, just personal preference, and I think it can do more. But why do you like Pebble? What is it about it?

Jamie: Well, to be honest, I I was one of those guys who was using an excel sheet for a long time. So with my full time job, I was using a couple of different themes. So I want to say I'm like, I'm not super experienced with a lot of different serums. So pebble for me, what I liked about it is I like that it gives me my statistics like at least that gives me I was my average male drip per day and I can see, you know, how I'm doing. And that kind of that kind of shows me. I notice when I'm consistent, I'm still getting all that I notice and I am not an email or whatever it may or if I was down, right? So I kind of like that visual. This is my response rate sounds like I'm getting a phone call or email or mailbox. Put that in the panel and, you know, constantly updating that.

Joe: What's interesting, as you can, you can drip your mail out, right? You don't have to spend a thousand at a time. You can send 50 a day if you want.

Jamie: Right, exactly. And I think that's I think that might be one of the most valuable tool of all, because when I do think rocket mail, you have to send a minimum 500 units at a time. And so the etowah example in a small pocket example we talked about, let's say you're saying you're get a lot of phone calls back. And so let's say like, keep the numbers simple as $10000 in market value. And we were offering 5000 because we thought it maybe was a $15000 in market value there. And often I'm getting a lot of phone calls back. I can on unpayable. You can pause your campaign so I can say, OK, I realize that I probably offered to hire a number here so I can pause my campaign on pedal and then I can readjust my offer price. So maybe I've already sent out a third. Maybe I sent a third of my mail and the next two thirds I could 10000 5000, sending me 3000 out. They my that's my blind offer and I can see how that impacts that, that response rate.

Joe: Does Pebble allow you to use your own reference letter reference ID?

Jamie: Yeah and I believe you can upload your own?

Joe: OK. So when they and they call in, you can search for that contact by that reference number. Yep.

Jamie: You search by the reference number or the API. I think given the owner's name.

Joe: Nice. I love Pebble. It looked really good. The only thing I didn't like about it and I've talked to Jesse is like, You have to use it outside phone service. And there's not a way in that record to show all of the phone conversations, texts and emails related to that lead in the CRM. Yeah. I wish they could do that because it would be awesome. But anyway, it's still a good tool, and I've never found one CRM that does everything I want.

Jamie: But exactly. For me, it's work. I don't know how much I feel like. The biggest fear I have is probably it can feel pricey, but but it's really good value, I think, for you to have.

Joe: All right. OK, so using Pebble for your CRM, what are you using for your phones? When you're making outbound calls, you're getting inbound calls.

Jamie: So if I'm doing an outbound call myself, I'm normally just using my own cell.

Joe: You put your own cell phone on the letters and postcards?

Jamie: No, no. What I'm saying is like, what I mean by how about as if I'm reaching out, if I'm doing a cold call, I'm doing something like that. And mostly I'm doing that when I'm hyper focused on one area and like if I have a buyer in an area that I know is interested in properties and I can just go and and I can go and find those phone numbers around the area and just call 20 people. So that's what I mean by outbound, by inbound Facebook when sellers are calling me. I use Pat lives for the live answering service, and then I'll just follow up again with just my own cell phone. OK.

Joe: What are you using then for payments when you're collecting payments?

Jamie: Right now, I've been using Moon Clerk.

Joe: Somebody is like, what? Moon M O O N Clerk C L E R K, Moon Clerk.com

Jamie: Yes. That's correct.

Joe: Cool And that uses them on the stripe, right? Yep. Yeah. OK. No problems. No issues.

Jamie: No, it's I think it's honestly super simple and straightforward. Yeah.

Joe: Would you be prepared if there did become an issue if Stripe shut you down? Would you have a way to start charging your customers cards again? Another way, does that make sense?

Jamie: Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind that would obviously cause a hiccup. But I mean, the first thing of the my ideas like I maybe have found out in the short term like PayPal, and then I'd probably be reaching out to people like you think, Hey, what do you do? How do you like how you sending out these for your notes? But I haven't ever had an issue yet. I remember talking to Willie about that, too, because he's the one who got me onto Moon Clerk, but can't remember. But anyway,

Joe: Is he still using Moon Clark, by the way?

Jamie: I have no idea.

Joe: Because he's doing a lot of volume. I hope he is that would be cool.

Jamie: Yeah he does a lot of volume. But yeah, I've no idea, to be honest.

Joe: It's a good platform to get started on. But I've heard, you know, once you start growing and doing a lot of volume, it can become a little more difficult. All right. So let's talk about how you're advertising your properties.

Jamie: Yes, I use well for when I first started, I was, you know, almost 100 percent on Facebook Marketplace and I use landmark surveys and and they would post it. They would present properties on my Facebook and Craigslist, the East Coast, one zero before I got kind of difficult the post manjula. And then I have a Lancome account, so I'm posting on Land White Sands of America, etc. And then if I'm doing larger properties, I actually use realtors to actually go out, market those properties.

Joe: What is the larger property price point?

Jamie:I say. Over 15000 to 20000.

Joe: OK, who are you doing like? Are you doing the ads yourself or the pictures yourself? You know, when you do the Google Earth images or you draw out the actual plot, you know, are you doing that yourself or are you getting VAS to do that for you?

Jamie: Yeah. So that land master, I believe that's what they're called, they're my vas. They knew all my images, ad content stuff in a strong suit of mine, so I knew I had outsourced that right away.

Joe: Land masters. That's pretty cool. I've heard good things about them. We just hired a different VA company, and my assistant just texted me a few minutes ago that she doesn't like them, so we might be looking for a new one sooner. Yeah, I've used to.

Jamie: I used to use at least one other virtual assistant service, and they're more I used there. The first time I ever had someone else answer. The phone stopped me and they were good. I just I wish I felt like I could find better value somewhere else.

Joe: I just texted her that you like Land Masters VA. See what she says? All right. And they kind of help create the the postings for you, right? The images and stuff like that. And then you put it on your website. Still, do you use one of Jessie Kwong's websites also?

Jamie: Yes, I do. Yeah, my website. And now most times people are not organically finding my website. It's normally most of my volume comes nowadays from Lands America. That's where I find most of my properties. And it used to be almost 100 percent coming from, I mean, most coming from Facebook for a long time.

Joe: Has it been harder to post on Facebook Marketplace for you or still all right with that?

Jamie: Yeah, it's definitely well, especially if I have my VAS post, it almost instantly gets flagged.

Joe: Why is that such a problem? Why is Facebook having a conniption fit about that?

Jamie: Well, what I what I have understood is that I think it's because the IP address associated with my virtual assistants, they're located in the Philippines, not in North Carolina, where I live, right? So I think the system can identify that. And that's one of the reasons he gets flagged. But as far as I've actually gone through and read between the standard, this was a huge headache for me for a while and I have no idea of rule on breaking it. I have gone through this twice now, and I don't understand. But I know some people that work at Facebook and start asking questions, and that was kind of the best guesstimate I was given.

Joe: I've always just had my other business partner take care of this for me. But like you put it on the Facebook page, so you have a business business Facebook page, right? Mm hmm. And then from there, that's what you. You put it on a Facebook marketplace. Is that right? Or is it your business page? That's the profile that you're putting it on to marketplace with.

Jamie: Yes, I think we were just posting. So I haven't been on Facebook, probably about six months to eight months, but I believe you're just posting directly to Facebook Marketplace. Maybe that wasn't a problem.

Joe: Okay. Have you ever done you mentioned having a hard time putting it on Zillow. What what do you mean by that? Trying to listing on Zillow as a for sale by owner? Is that the problem you were having?

Jamie: Yeah, I think you need to be like an agency person or you have to, especially with using the virtual assistants they would post on Zillow and Zillow would have like, call me to verify it. And and then I just I just was like, kind of looking back at the business and saying, OK, I'm getting almost zero percent of my, of my, of my business from Zillow. Yeah. So let's just we don't need to do this. We have other websites that are getting more traction.

Joe: Have you ever put it on like a flat fee listing broker service, like a flat fee listing for ninety nine bucks? You can then get it out on Zillow, Trulia, Redfin, all the different realtor websites.

Jamie: I thought about doing that, but I've personally, I haven't had issues selling my properties. Just using land is my land com account and then used to be Facebook.

Joe: If people are wondering, Land.com Is the site that owns Lands of America, Land Watch, dot com land and Farm Luxury. Cool. How are you handling the calls from buyers when they call in?

Jamie: So the first thing that happens is they go to my Pat Live answer. They have a script they follow and they essentially are qualifying the property and qualifying the seller.

Joe: The buyers?

Jamie: On the buy side you're saying?

Joe: when you're what insiders are calling, how do you handle those calls?

Jamie: Oh, I handle those all myself. So you go, Yeah, so I'm getting a notice there. They're calling me or emailing me or. And so I just respond to them. I try to go back to the best they can. And so I just try to be really familiar with the properties that I have. And so that way I can talk to them and just, you know, talking to that process when he's a realtor. Obviously, the realtors handling that. Yeah.

Joe: Nice. What would you say to somebody that is just getting started? Jamie, they've heard some interest. They're tired. They're tired of me talking about laying in. All the time, and they're like, one might want to start doing it myself. What would you what would your advice be to somebody who's new?

Jamie: Well, I guess depending where you're at in the process, right? I think if you listen to Joe for a long time and you think you have an idea of what this is, then you got to pick a county and you got a sense of male and just test the process. I think a lot of people get hung up with, I need to open up an LLC, I need a bank, a business bank to do all these all these different things versus just testing the business model first. So you're comfortable taking those first steps to say, OK, I've learned from Joe that this is how you kind of pick a market. This is how you send direct mail. I give it a shot like that. If you're comfortable doing something like that, that would be what I would suggest.

Joe: So get out of your zone.

Jamie: Exactly. Add to that. Fear you and I both talked about, right? I always had like a sticky note that says fear equals growth. So just to remind myself that this is what's supposed to feel like, I think also, I mean, the biggest thing for me is getting into a course or finding a coach and having someone who has that experience because I think as an entrepreneur, you have to ask yourself, what's the best way to get from A to B.. And for me, the answer's always been find someone who's done this, who's a level above me or more and have them walk me through that process.

Joe: And just do what they say.

Jamie: Exactly, exactly.

Joe: Stop questioning it and just do it.

Jamie: Yeah. So that's that's been the biggest by far been the biggest thing that's that's grown me from zero to 100000. And then beyond getting coaches for those different phases of my business. Nice.

Joe: All right. What else is you going to ask you? I think we're good. What's it going to take to get you to quit your job and do land just full time?

Jamie: That's that's honestly the goal this year. So I'm just trying to increase really my net profit this year so that I can feel comfortable 100 percent of the kind of stuff and to step back. But so that's that's really where my goal was really by the end of April that I cut the ties and just go for it, go and.

Joe: Do you feel like you could make more money if you had more time to devote to the land business?

Jamie: I think really, it's almost beyond the time. It's just the mental ability to focus on that one thing where I don't have to switch gears throughout the day or so. Any yes like to get have never had more time just to focus on the one thing. Yes, I think that would definitely help. I can look at more. I can look at more places to invest. I could review more deals quickly. I could get actually faster. And like, I travel for my full time job. So, you know, let's eliminate that.

Joe: So you do travel for your job now.

Jamie: So to eliminate that, which obviously frees a lot of time. And yeah, but I think the most for me, someone working full time, I think I'm really lucky because I have I've been working from home for a long time. I've always had the ability to balance both of these and manage my own time and but sometimes working full time at an an office job that I think would be much trickier.

Joe: Does your employer know you're doing land on the side?

Jamie: Yes.

Joe: OK. So are you? Are you part time with your company?

Jamie: Not technically. Not technically. I'm full time.

Joe: OK Man, you're still young. Health insurance is not that expensive for a young guy. Yeah. And you're married. Do you mind me asking?

Jamie: I'm not.

Joe: Okay. Well, you could go out and marry a wife who's got health insurance. Then you don't have to worry about it, right?

Jamie: Yeah, I think that's a good strategy.

Joe: Just go get married. Go find somebody who's got health insurance. I'm sure somebody's listening to this. Jimmy is is single and has good health insurance and would love to talk to you. No, I'm just kidding.

Jamie: I've thought about that strategy. Honestly, it goes back to just like that. I think part of it, I think, Robert Kiwosaki says like the biggest addiction that we have is our salary. So I think I feel that I've missing that like consistent pay. And another thing that I run into mentally, I would say is like, it's like, OK, well, they keep the salary that I can keep 100 percent reinvesting everything in the business, and that's what I'm like. That's where you say I'm still young. So it's like, OK, well, if I can balance these both and I can just keep reinvesting that, I can keep going. But to your point, if I had more time and more focus, I could probably I could probably do that anyways. And it seemed like much higher for me.

Joe: It was for three I wanted to make while I wanted to have a year's worth of living expenses in the bank, and that wasn't for for me. Then I decided, All right, well, if I can for three months, if I can consistently for three months in a row, make more money doing deals than I was part time than I was at my full time job. That's when I quit, and that's when I had my wife's encouragement and, you know, faith in me that, yeah, OK, this is going to work. So but it was a big step of faith and a big leap of faith. You just just don't know what's going to happen, but I'm so glad I did. Now that was 13 years ago. Next month, it'll be 13 years. But anyway, Jamie, thanks so much.

Jamie: You know, when I let you know and I officially cut the cord.

Joe: Please do, man. Let me know. Send me an email, sent me a text or something. Well, maybe we'll get you back. On the podcast, the awesome Jamie, how can people reach you if they want to maybe partner with you on some land deals?

Jamie: Yeah, so you can find me on Facebook. My name's Jamie Goldenberg, right? And I, that's probably the best way of now. Facebook, I have Instagram too. But that's like as a Facebook story where you can message, meanwhile, easier.

Joe: Nice. All right. Thank you very much, Jamie. Appreciate you.

Jamie: Yeah, appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

Joe: And next time you see Willie or talk to him, say hi to him. For me.

Jamie: Will do.

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