Joe:   Welcome. This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. Hey, what's going on, guys, Joe McCall, real estate Investing Mastery podcast. Well, you know, I love market. I love real estate. I love marketing. I've always said the three keys to success in this business marketing automation delegation. And you can figure out how to do marketing the right way, automate the marketing, automate the systems and the processes and delegate whatever you can automate out. You're going to have a killer awesome real estate. So when I'm I'm always looking for people that I can interview on the podcast, people that I can talk to about one of those three things, marketing, automation. And I saw Nate Armstrong is going to be our guest today talking about I saw him on Facebook, maybe on Instagram, but talking about marketing, how he's getting leads from social media, from the Facebook's and the YouTube and all that Instagram even. And so I said I reached out to his team and said, hey, can I get Nate on the podcast? Let's talk about how to get sellerr leads and buyer leads from the Internet, from Facebook, YouTube. I mean, everybody's talking about everybody's doing it. You are doing it well. And so I've gotten to know Nate. I got him on the podcast to ask him a lot of good questions that I think you guys are going to like and appreciate. Let's talk about how to get motivated seller leads from social media. But first, listen, this podcast is brought to you by my side. This book called Simple Lease Options. You've seen me talk about it a lot. You can get it for free at this website. You see right there, SLOclass.com, The easiest and fastest way to do more deals in any more. So when you're just talking to sellers and you're making a cash offer, they say no to that. Most of you all don't know what else to do. So what if you had a way where you can make different offers to the same so they say no to your cash offer? Maybe they would say yes to a seller financing this purchase offer, something like that. So you can maybe go from getting one out of 30 offers except to maybe three out of 30 offers. You can triple your deal flow without doing any more marketing just by giving the sellers more options. It's all about being a transaction engineer. It's about learning how to give the sellers different options. So if they say no to your cash offer, you can offer these purchase. So while all the competition is out there competing for this small little pool of hungry, motivated sellers with equity, now when you learn how to do something like this, you can go after all of the sellers that don't have as much equity, maybe are not as motivated. And you can now do some these options. Right. Get this book. It's free. Just go to SLOclass.com. Watch the webinar will give you this book for free, a walk through step by step how these types of deals go. Check it out. All right. So let's bring Nate on. Nate, how are you?

Nate:   Good. Joe. How are you doing, man?

Joe:   I'm glad that you're here. Sorry for being late.

Nate:   It's OK. When I got your text that you'd be a little bit late, I thought you were just trying to ice the kicker, get them all frozen and jittery. This kid.

Joe:   Glad to be here, man. All right. So tell us a little bit about you and first talk about your how you get started with real estate. And you're doing some really cool things now with social media getting some at least. But how did you get started in the business?

Nate:   Yeah, yeah, I got started from a friend that showed me a flip that house show, and then it proceeded to go into this six years of flipping houses. And I got into a development project that put me on my my blind side. My butt got kicked, got my butt kicked on this development project to the point where literally I remember a day when I couldn't pay the banks because I was late on this development project. What year was this? This is about five, maybe six years ago. I couldn't pay the banks couldn't couldn't pay the cabinet supplier. And that was the worst of all. The cabinet supplier literally called me every day at ten o'clock in the morning. Same call I remember I'd get my phone and I'd see that number on my caller I.D. and my gut would just wrench. And I'm like, oh, but I would take his call every day no matter what. And I remember just going through this period and praying a lot and just asking for guidance. And all of a sudden in my Facebook news feed, like when the news feed started to become cool, there was somebody that kept dropping a real estate deal there almost every day. And I'm like, how is this guy getting deal after deal after deal? And so I reached out to him and I said, hey, please show me how to do this. I really need this in any way as we work something out. And he showed me how to do it. And the next thing I know, my wife and I, we got four deals done in about a forty day window. And it was like seeing a river or an oasis in the desert. And we started doing it more and more and perfecting it. And now we're to the point where with God's blessing, we we finish those big projects, cleared those and we're on track. Like this month. We're going to close out eighteen deals. So pretty cool to be on the journey.

Joe:   Where where do you mainly do your deals.

Nate:   Yeah, Milwaukee, Wisconsin is like my favorite little hidden market that people call it the Rust Belt, the upper Midwest. But it's it's a great, great place. I even moved there for business for a period of time and we had a lot of fun there.

Joe:   How long ago was that you started doing those deals?

Nate:   So probably four and a half, five years ago when we really turned up the wholesale machine. And that was mainly wholesaling that, mainly because I had to generate a lot of cash fast. And like, I love like. Your book right now, if some people don't grab it, if you don't have it yet, you just got to grab it. It's an absolute no brainer because you you said this, right? Most people out there right now are making cash offers on properties. And let's face it, the market is saturated with we buy a house type people right now, including Zillow and offer pad and everybody else. You go in with a cash offer. It's like a baseball player that only knows how to hit a fastball. They're going to strike out the picture is going to throw a curve ball. And so with sellers, you cannot just lead with this. I call it a punch in the gut. It's kind of like just throwing this cash off or hoping that it sticks. You got to go in with a little tact with a little a little more style to. So like your book is gold. I actually wrote it down. I'm going to grab a copy myself.

Joe:   So do you do creative deals yourself?

Nate:   Yeah, I got another book on my shelf. It's the three hundred ways to creatively make real estate deals. It gets into like land swaps and whatever else. But yeah, we do 17 different ways here, kind of fundamentally around subject to wrap mortgages, things like that. But we get creative. We absolutely do, because right now sellers will reject you if you're just tossing out cash offers.

Joe:   Very cool. So let's talk about that a little bit more to you. What are you doing now, then, in your business? Are you mainly or are you doing it by an old combination of the both?

Nate:   Yeah, we do a combo. So if if it's a really good property that my wife and I like will typically keep it, if it's a big property, like I just got a 10 unit building not far from me. And so a bigger deal like that will raise some capital for it. If it's a smaller deal, then we'll just keep it if it makes sense. And then anything else that makes sense for our investors. We've got a pool of investors that buy properties from us wholesale to them, make profits there, and then put it over into the buy and hold side.

Joe:   Essentially kind of depends kind of depends on the situation. Yeah. All right. So when you when you find a deal, the seller comes to you and says, hey, I want to sell this property, do you tend to lean more towards the cash offer? You give the seller all three or four options. And once this is just another situation, how do you approach?

Nate:   So I work backwards, really. I want to have a look. I want to have a relationship with them. I'll give you an example. I'm standing in a property that I bought from going through the same ads that we do in social media. Anyways, the seller want to cash. It's a beautiful property near the water, all that kind of stuff if you want to cash for it, wanted to cash out. And I just ask the question. I said, well, hey, if you had all that cash, what would you do with it? And he said, well, I would probably put it in the stock market. And then I looked at him like, you really risk it in the stock market when it's so high right now. And it's like, well, no, I'd have to find a different spot for it. And they said, tell you what, if I can help you not have to move the money, not have to get nailed with taxes and whatnot right now, and I can make monthly payments to you that are better than what you'd make off your savings account. Would you be open to having a conversation about it? And he said, yeah, yeah. What does that mean? And then I started breaking it down and here we are. We've got a property that we really wanted without having to take cash out of my personal bank account.

Joe:   So you are financing these purchases.

Nate:   This one's a wrap around mortgage.

Joe:   Typically what that means is, if you don't mind me asking, yeah, I know what your personal reasons, but there's an existing mortgage in place, right? Yeah.

Nate:   He's got a small mortgage. Well, when I say small, it's all relative. He's probably got a four hundred thousand dollar mortgage in place. The property's worth like seven hundred ish. This is a condo. And so he has equity in the property. He's got that three hundred equity, so to speak. Well, what we do is we come in and we write a contract that says, hey, think of it like a blanket.

Joe:   This is really good.

Nate:   So it's like a blanket that wraps around physically is equity and the mortgage. And then the contract outlines that I'm going to make a payment that then goes in to cover the mortgage and the equity and it discusses where the payment is, how it's sent, when it's sent, when it's due, when the deadline is for the overall loan. Like all the details like that. Yeah.

Joe:   So you're making the mortgage payment every month to yourself?

Nate:   Yeah. Yep. I make the mortgage payment every month.

Joe:   Because I don't want to be in a situation where you send it to the seller and hope they make the mortgage payment so. Right. So but then you're also probably giving him some extra money to you've also created a new note, probably a promissory note. Right. For the equity. OK, cool. We did a lease option on our own personal residence, just went to Zillow, found the owner at the time. This was six, seven years ago. We couldn't get a mortgage. They still had things from six years previously that were on my credit and being self-employed, making good money. But my tax returns didn't work with the banks, wanted to see in terms of debt to income and being self-employed, a jumbo loan that's even more difficult. So then I just approached the seller and said, hey, listen, can I just. And it was pretty clear when I asked him, I said, can I use your property for you year or two and five? You said, yeah, sure. Go look at spoke when looked at it fell in love with the house and the lease option for a few years, turned it into owner financing and got traditional mortgage on the house. Yeah, I love love creative financing for buying your own personal residence. A lot of people don't think about that, but there's a lot of opportunity out there. Don't think. Investors who are making good money understand how to structure creative deals. I know so many guys that are doing this beautiful houses that maybe you might be able to get a mortgage.But for whatever reason, you may not want to get a mortgage for that house right now. You may want to reserve or save some of the capital for your investment is. Let's talk about that.

Nate:   Yeah. And even beyond like the single family house, like this 10 unit that I'm picking up, there's some seller financing in play, too. And I find the bigger the deal that we go into, usually the more sophisticated the seller is. Like it's a bigger asset. So usually they're a little more educated on how money works. And so it's even easier to have a conversation around like, hey, well, what if we leave part of your equity in place? So I absolutely agree with you, Joe. People, real estate investors as a whole need to learn this from day one. You've got to learn it. You've got to know it, because then when you're sitting with them, have that conversation and you start to dip your toes in the water. They're going to ask you questions. They're going to say, well, what happens if this happens? What if you get hit by a bus? What if you don't make the mortgage payment and you've got to be able to recite to them with confidence what's going to happen and outline it so they feel secure and then that's how these deals are done.

Joe:   Really good. OK, so let's talk about market. Let's talk about social media marketing. How did you stumble across that? Because I'm assuming when you got started, you're learning what everybody else is doing, direct mail, postcards, letters, maybe you were doing driving for dollars, cold calling, let's talk about your journey.

Nate:   Yeah. So when I had my desperate moment, I really needed to make something happen. I saw this guy posting properties on Facebook and he was doing it in the most hideous way, like it wouldn't work today, what worked five years ago. But he was literally taking a picture of a bandit sign and posting it in the news feed. And he was getting activity from people like both sides, buyers and sellers. So those worked for a while now, Facebook, everybody in their brothers jumped on. And so you've got to be much more creative. But that's how I started. I reached out to him. I asked him for help. He showed me. And I'm like, Really? It's that simple. It's like, yeah, I just got to get attention. And so since then, where we've taken this, so it's been an entire evolution. But I started paying attention to the details and the way this happened to me as I was driving my jeep, going through an intersection, this kid comes barreling over the hill, runs a stop sign, smashes me in to rack a jeep. Like he twisted me around. I jump out of my car, I look at his car and I'm like, oh, my God, this his hood was smashed up. And I run over to his car and I open the door. I'm like, Are you OK? Thank God his airbags went off. Kid saved his life from the airbags. So then we start to calm down. His dad shows up, the police shows up, and then next thing I know, they're having me talk to their insurance company and their insurance company says, hey, we're going to take care of everything. Don't worry. We know that it wasn't your fault. They send me to to auto body shops. I got to call them first. And I'm supposed to go in and get estimates. Well, I call them the next thing I know, both of them are calling me left and right, like every day. And I'm so busy I don't have a car. I'm frustrated I got to get back to work. So I just ignore them all. And then got a text message from one of them from Andrew Autobody, and it says, Hey, Nate, just so you know, we can come like are the insurance company. We're authorized to come to your house and pick up your jeep and we'll drop off a rental car. I saw that. And I'm like, is this even real? Like, yes, they did exactly that. Maybe you sign some paperwork. And then I sat there thinking, like, I wonder how often our sellers are feeling the way that I felt like busy with life, frustrated like whatever it was. And how often are we just trying to call those sellers and they're not answering because those people were trying to call me for two weeks straight and I didn't answer the call. And so I started testing different text campaigns and email campaigns like I know how to get the leads come off the platform. So that's the easy part. But then getting them to convert, that's where most people follow up. So I just started testing these messages and seeing where it leads fell off and I paid attention to every little detail and I finally figured it out where I could get them, the sellers to say, yes, I'm really ready. Now, let's have a real conversation. So that's kind of the evolution of of what we what we had to do to make social media marketing work.

Joe:   I think I just remembered the ad that I saw you. Oh, yeah, you maybe I'm wrong. I'm sorry if I'm getting used to somebody else. Were you talking to a camera? You're kind of leaning over the hood of a car and there was a house behind.

Nate:   Yeah, yeah. Ninety one forty nine or forty nine Street. Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Joe:   Yes, that is it. OK, because before we went live here I was trying to remember where so I followed your, I clicked on your and I looked at your what you were teaching this test and I really liked how you were open with your faith. I loved how you're really you seem like a guy who really just wants to help and that comes across with your students and with the clients that you're helping, but also the sellers as well. That's so important. You talked about it a little bit and you ask these questions. You're trying to make money. Obviously, you're not a charity, but it doesn't seem like you want to make money at the expense of taking advantage of a tough situation.

Nate:   Precisely like right now, the world has been turned upside down over the last year and a half. And there's a lot of people that are in unfortunate circumstances. So the sense. When someone's trying to be a shark in, the very first thing is, OK, if I teach something on the set, come on. OK, so the very first thing where I see people kind of making a mistake and we've got to slow it down a little bit, is that when you first engage with the seller, you've got to understand that they've got pressure on their shoulders like they might not ever say it. They probably won't say it, but they've got a kid in college. They're getting moved across town or maybe to a different city because they lost their job here. This house that they've got, like they've been paying the mortgage for 14 years, there is mental pressure on them to make the right decision on this property. So the very first thing that I do whenever I approach a seller, I don't care if it's on the phone or if I'm going up to shake hands. And I'm picturing this because I literally did it with the house that you saw in that ad. I met him and his wife, his name is and I walked up. The first phone call with him was rough. It was like, are you going to pay me retail price? I said, I don't know yet. I haven't been there. I haven't seen it. He's like, well, if you're not going to pay retail, don't even come. I said, how about this? I'll come take a walk through with you and then we'll let you know we're on the spot. It's like, OK, so I felt that tension on the call. So the first thing I did when I got there, I walked up, I shook his hand. I said, hey, come, this is the pressure relief part. Hey, Khong, just so you know, sometimes these deals work and sometimes they don't. I might be able to help you today, best case scenario. But if I can't, I just I'll probably be able to refer you to somebody that can. And I watched like, tons of pressure just come off of him and he's like, oh, OK. And next thing I know, we're taking a tour of the house. We're sitting down in his dining room table. He's pulling out his mortgage statements. He's telling me that another investor already made a lowball cash offer. He's telling me that a realtor was there and tried to list his house, but he wouldn't do the listing agreement. And then we were talking so like direct with one another because we were just being honest. I was able to say, hey, call, what do you really want? You said no to these other two people. What are you trying to achieve? Just just lay it on me. He said, I need seven grand to move to a new city. My brother's got me a job. I need seven Grant. I said, if I get you the seven grants, netnet that seven grand in your pocket. Are you a happy camper? You said, well, who would take care of the house? And I explained the details and I said, Yeah, I do. I'll take your Olin seven grand. We shook hands. I remember it. It was forty three minutes because I record myself when I'm talking to get better at stuff. Forty three minutes start to finish. Well other two people struck out. We got the deal because we did right by the seller lessons.

Joe:   Yeah I love that. I love that. I can tell you how many times I've lost deals because I come to the seller with just one agenda and one right to beat them down in price and to give them just a cash offer trying to make a square peg, round hole. It just didn't work. But when you can ask questions, questions like why do you want to sell the house? Are you going to do with the money when you sell? What are some of your goals? What do you really need out of this? Just asking simple questions, but I love to how you set up the agenda and you gave them permission to say no. You told them, I'm going to give you all your options. If it doesn't work out, that's fine. That comes across so much better, because I often say this to the how do you chase sellers the faster. And so if you are chasing them, if you're desperate, if you become the motivated buyer and you're trying to convince them and talk them into something they don't want to do, and they can smell that desperation from a mile away. And I always say to the sellers, too, and I know you know this thing. I'm just talking to the audience. I always try to give sellers are options and I tell them you should list it with a realtor. If you really want the most money, you want to sell the fastest and be completely home, you should list it with an agent and I'll give you referrals. You want to talk to some agents, but if you just want me to take care of this for you, take it as is. Then maybe we can talk about that. I can make some offers you can look at over talk about it. Would you like to go forward from there that OK, people love that, that you're giving them an expensive option.

Nate:   They'll feel that they trust you more. They feel your sincerity. And I know what's coming from a place of service at that point.

Joe:   So it's not a mindset Jedi trick, it's just genuine sincerity. One lady reminds me, I called her about a house. She had a real nice house and that's just talking to a little bit. And she said, well, I'm not going to just give it away. I don't know. Are you just one of those? You know, I'm just I'm an investor. Yeah. But I'm looking for a nice house that I can. I knew she didn't have enough equity. She just wanted three months. It was already listed. Anyway, it turns out after talking to her and just being nice, she just told me everything she said going through. Just bought this house three months ago, going through a divorce. I don't care if you take over my mortgage and just pay me rent or whatever for the next 30 years. I don't want this house anymore. Just help me get out of hole. And I would never have gotten this. She was really hard pressed to shell the beginning. Hard to get through and get any questions. I just started listening to then opened up and just told me, get that, get that a lot more. You're in this business.

Nate:   Yeah, I agree. It's that that pressure that someone has and we would never know that unless we actually let them open up to us. So many people just try to come in and like and I know because it's like I'm an introvert at heart, too. So it's easier just to kind of get down to brass tacks, like, hey, what are the. Numbers, what are you looking at? But that's the wrong approach to really serve someone, you've got to understand what their situation is, because at the end of the day, it's not just the number that influence that. I was sitting at a closing table with the seller named Chris and his two sisters that had passed away years prior. Mom just passed away. So now they're selling the property to me. And at the closing table, Chris said, hey, Nate, just so you know, I had another offer on this for ten grand more, but I didn't take it. And I said, Chris, why didn't you take it? Man, I wouldn't have been offended, like you said. No, no, no. It wasn't about the ten grand. We really appreciate that you're letting us come back and see the property after it's fully renovated to my sister. She wants to see it the way they met at it. I learned so much that day from from Chris. He taught me such a big lesson. It's not just the number this ten minute building that I'm working on right now, like it's not the number. Like the guy who was open book. He told me, I don't need the money, I don't need the money. I do this for fun. And I'm like, wow, that's pretty, pretty bold. You can say that. That's awesome. But it's totally for fun for him. And he's like, look, that's projects like this to keep his mind going like this.

Joe:   So you all know we're doing this live right now on Facebook. It's going to be watching right now. If you have any questions for Nate, please type them in the comments below the YouTube with the Facebook. And I will ask Nate your questions. So I got some more questions for myself. But if any time we're going through this, now is a chance to type in your questions in the comments or Facebook comments there, YouTube or Facebook comments, and I can pop them up on the screen and we will ask Nate. All right. So what percent of your marketing budget right now goes to social media, Facebook ads?

Nate:   Yeah, great question. It's probably like, well, when you say the percentage, let me break it down a little bit more. We get, I'd say, eighty percent of our current deals from our organic strategy, which sometimes shocks people because people have like they'll say, well, I tried that. I tried posting in groups. I tried posting on my news feed. And that's not what I'm talking about. That's kind of a shotgun approach. I'm talking about more of a surgical approach, surgical approach, where we actually get sellers to come to us like my inbox right now, my messenger inbox is blowing up. I got too many people in there to respond to. So my assistance and they're pulling people out right now, like. So the organic side is more powerful. Now, if you would have asked me a year ago which side was more powerful, I would have told you our ads were more powerful. But the elections last year, things got distorted. As a fellow advertiser, you probably felt it, too, like I learned really quick that I could not compete with Joe Biden in ad spend.

Joe:   So in Wisconsin, a swing state.

Nate:   Oh, man. Yes, yes. So I started like just as good entrepreneurs do, like I'm always testing stuff and trying to make sure that I've got whatever is going to work if something's not working. And we figured out the organic site, it works really well. And then we supplement it now with paid ads. So paid ads for us. What they really are is more like jet fuel. We got the car going down the road at a good speed doing organic, and now we're going to come in and add jet fuel to make it go faster. We're just paying for more exposure on the platforms, mostly organic.

Joe:   They'll talk a little bit about your organic strategy. What is that?

Nate:   Yeah, so I get myself out there. I do a combination of things. We've got some pages like business pages in some groups that essentially we're going out there and we go very, very niche and we get people to respond to whatever the niche messages. So let me give you an example. I got a client that he really loves probates. So the very first thing that I do when I'm working with someone is they say, OK, well, your niche, you love probates, right? OK, cool. Tell me, what is it that makes a probates seller wake up at night worrying about something or do they get frustrated about? And so then we start just brainstorming. We write down all of these things and maybe you guys, even in the comments you can tell us what what do you think it is that a probates seller would get maybe a little bit worried about what may wake them up at night or frustrate them. And so we're Jaman. We're writing all these ideas. Typically what we'll do is we'll fill up a whole sheet of paper with just ideas and then we'll come back and we'll circle the top three. And I can't see the comments that are coming through right now. But did anybody?

Joe:   Yes and no. People are commenting, but they're asking questions. There might be a delay. I'll let you know.

Nate:   Cool. Cool. So typically, like with probates, sellers, what they're frustrated or worried about is what am I going to do with mom and dad stuff? What am I going to do? I don't want to argue with my brother or my sister about what to do with the property. It's important that we categorize it, how they see it, not how we see it necessarily, because they most probably sellers, they don't even know what a probates seller means. So we got to see it exactly how they see it. What am I going to do with mom and dad stuff? Once we nail that, this is going to be the headline of either our business page or our group. So we're literally going to use that as a headline and then we're going to drive people to that group that are in this circumstance.

Joe:   Are you are you talking about creating a group of people or are you talking about joining another?

Nate:   Create your own. This works on a business page as well. You don't necessarily have to have the group, you just have to have a spot where people can come and hang out. Think of it like kind of like this. You're hosting this event right now. It's kind of like your own online virtual party in what we're doing. You're bringing together a whole bunch of people that want to hear this message. Well, imagine if we want to go and get probates. Sellers, we got to go out and put out a message that probate sellers want to hear. You've got to enter the conversation that they're having in their head. Like, I don't want to argue with my brother about what to do with the house. I don't know what to do with mom and dad stuff. So we put out messages like that and bring them to a place so it doesn't matter where the place is persay. It doesn't have to be a group. It can be a page. You can even got clients that stream right from their personal profile. The message is the most important part. We have to get the message out that actually is going to move the needle for them. So we essentially just try to add value each week to whatever they're doing and then we can usually get them by the end of the broadcast to raise their hand to us in the comments and say, yeah, I'd like help or yeah, I'd like a fair offer on my property.

Joe:   Nathan wants to come in here. They would be worried about how to pay the mortgage. But being here at the property.

Nate:   And it's a very good point, they do they stress about taxes, insurance, mortgage payments.

Joe:   So Maria here says to provide family attorney, how much are we going to get? How much taxes are we going to have?

Nate:   These are great. So so Maria and Nathan and then the others that are struggling with comments, we just fill out a whole sheet of paper with all of those and we're going to pick the top three to start with. And those become our marketing messages to drive that person to wherever we're going to have our online party, I'll call it. Now, I mentioned Mitch, and this is where most people fail. Most people, they go abroad like, hey, we buy a house and then I'll tell them, like, well, you've got to be niche. And then they'll say, well, hold on, no, I can buy all kinds of houses. I can buy probates, free foreclosures, I can buy it all. I want to go abroad. And I'll tell you right now in the marketing world, Joe, you know this better than anybody. The more niche we are, the better the messaging works.

Joe:   The riches are in the niches. Nailed it. What are some niches?

Nate:   Yeah, yeah. I'll give you one. Cincinnati duplex owners thinking of selling can't get any more black and white than that. Can't get any more specific with the niche. That's who's going to join that. That little party, that online party. It's going to be duplex sellers in Cincinnati that are thinking about selling.

Joe:   So you're again, you're talking about creating a page around that or even a Facebook group around the subject about that around that niche and just getting people you're posting things in there. You are getting people trying to discuss raise their hands inside this group. You're not talking about joining another group that maybe is like those garage sale buy sell trade groups in different cities that you're not talking about joining those.

Nate:   You know, there are ways to do that and monetize that. But that's kind of like the old days of going into Craigslist and just kind of searching and hunting and pecking that can work. But I prefer sellers coming to me asking for help. So we look at the way that we do that is we basically start our own little backyard barbecue party online and social media. And then we get our message out. We speak to them, we serve them, we genuinely serve them. And then at the end of whatever our service messages, then we just say, hey, if you're looking to potentially sell and you want a fair offer, just comment below fair offer. And my team and I will get connected with you. And then all of a sudden, boom, boom, boom, every time I do it, there's three to fifty. Depends on how big we do it and all that kind of stuff. But on a small day I'll get like three sellers. Me. Yeah.

Joe:   Fair offer crazy. I've never heard of this. How do you get people there to that group or that you do.

Nate:   Yeah, that would probably take me ten days to do it. But marketing. So on a high level it's you can do it two different ways. You can either. If you're let me say like this, if you're going to like grow a garden, you got to plant seeds, you got to water, you got a weed so you can either organically go and plant seeds telling people, hey, I got this backyard barbecue party over here. Here's what we're talking about. You can organically do that which works, or you can just give Facebook some money and say, hey, please go plant my seeds, bring people to this thing, and then you bring people to it. So both ways work. It's actually the organic way works better. It just takes more time, takes like an hour a day. The paid way also works. It just it's not as as effective. It costs more to do that. But if you're if your time is more valuable than money than paid ads is the way to go.

Joe:   And your paid ads again are not. Hey, you want to sell your house, collect your information.

Nate:   I've done them. And in some markets they still can work. But what's happened? It's not just other real estate investors. It's the political candidates. It's all the mom and pop businesses. It's the big businesses. They've all had to move online in the last year and a half to basically pull their commerce off of it. Right now, you cannot go to a restaurant without seeing people staring down at. It's just where business is happening, so because of that mass movement that's solidified like online business and advertising, now you got to be more creative. You can't just. Well, I can't say you can't just. But it's harder to just slap up all by your sign in social media. You've got to be more creative because that's become old already.

Joe:   All right. So what are some other examples of a niche audience? You talked about probates. You talked about Cincinnati investors and duplexes.

Nate:   Multifamily sellers in Lexington, Kentucky, thinking about selling. So like city name, I like to get really specific with it. I don't like to go broad. If you go to broad, then basically people will tune out, but go with city specific and then spell out exactly who you want to come join your party. One more tip on this. That party, the reason we have to be niche, we imagine yourself having this backyard party in real life. You wouldn't like if you had 80 year olds hanging out in one corner and you had teenagers over here in the other. They would not like they would not commingle, they would not like the party and eventually both would leave. And so that's the problem. When we try to do these big, broad messages like, hey, we buy houses. Yeah, you'll get some what are you going to attract this specific niche that you want to serve? And are you going to get them at the highest level? No. Instead, let's just focus on the seniors for this party and then it's totally OK to have another party over here in the online world. It takes all of ten minutes to put it together. Let's have another party over here for the teenagers. So we might say probates over here. We might say pre foreclosures over here, but we gotta be niche. We've got to be so, so niche. Does that make sense?

Joe:   Oh, yeah, it's really good. Can you do the same thing on YouTube?

Nate:   I haven't hacked it like that for what I've done when I run paid ads on Facebook is if they do an opt in, then I'll take their email and I'll become omnipresent in the world or I'll go to YouTube and other Google platforms and I'll just upload their email. And then usually I can put ads back in front of them, like at a 70 percent match rate or so.

Joe:   Yeah. So you can even do an ad that says, hey, do you own a duplex in Cincinnati, Ohio? Are you over the age of sixty five. Good. Yeah.

Nate:   Yeah. Once you get them to opt in on the first platform then you can totally target them on the second platform. Absolutely.

Joe:   All right. So you are getting them to opt in.

Nate:   If I run ads. So that's like a smaller percentage of the leaves that I get today. I lean really heavy on organic. It's just working better right now.

Joe:   So then you get them to a Facebook group or Facebook page, you allow them to post. Are you controlling it? Really?

Nate:   You either can work. We've got some folks that are doing like major control and others folks are running it more like a buy set by cell of group. So either can work. The most important thing is how are you showing up? You've got to show up here. Yeah. Yeah. And planting the seeds. Like if you're not going to pay for ads to get people to show up to your backyard barbecue party, then you got to go plant the seeds. If you don't do that, none of this stuff at work.

Joe:   All right. So then when you do show up, what are you doing? Are you are you doing this every day and asking questions, trying to generate some conversation, start some conversations?

Nate:   No, I go back to my list of all the things that wake them up at night. And I talk about one item each week and I go as deep as I can, at least that I have the knowledge of that I'm truly going to be able to serve them. I'll go fairly deep on it, five to seven minutes at least. Sometimes I'll make a Q and A if I got people there that are on the line and they want to talk, then I'll just say, hey, drop your questions below and we'll go back and forth. And then sometimes I'll just pop on and tell stories about sellers that we're helping. Like I got a chance to help. This woman named Cynthia for her husband had passed away. She had three kids. So she's a widow with kids. And like I know what the Bible says explicitly about widows and children. And so right away, I tell Cynthia, hey, and why don't we list this with a realtor? I want to see you get top dollar. And Cynthia said, I already tried. I'm too late. I've already got the final notice. They've scheduled the foreclosure or the sheriff's sale. Anyways, we end up stepping in. We save her equity. We help her read at the eleventh hour because we only have ten days to do this. And so sometimes I'll jump on and I'll share that story. Sometimes I'll share a story about a husband and wife, the set of family that we got to help, whatever it is. I'm just trying to educate them in different ways in what I found no different than like on this broadcast right now. And what makes your podcast so good? Joe is like you teach from the heart. You tell life stories in the Bible, one of the best selling books of all time. It's it's a book full of stories. So if you're in doubt and you don't know what to talk about, go back to your lists and share stories about how you can help with that list.

Joe:   By the way, did you know the Bible is also the most shoplifted book? Really? I did not know that. I don't know why I heard that. Of course, it's like any any book that's going to be the best selling book of all time is probably also going to have the most shoplifted stolen.

Nate:   I wonder I wonder how the thief feels when they open up with the Ten Commandments and it says Thou shall not.

Joe:   They're going to steal any book I'd rather than steal a Bible. I don't think that's true, but Jim's got a good question here. I think we might have already answered it. But you create a Facebook page with specific niche customers. How are seeds?

Nate:   Yeah, there's so many ways to do it. But literally like going out and telling people like Joe, you said earlier, what about other groups? You can go to other groups. You can tell people you can go to bycel groups and tell people if you're going to manually or organically do it, then you just go out there everywhere and spread the word, tell them, hey, I got this really cool backyard barbecue party over here. You should probably come check it out if you're this kind of person. So just spell out who you're looking for. It's going to automatically repel those who you're not looking for, and it's going to get people to jump in to wherever you got your party going on. And I want to make clear to like this doesn't have to be a group, doesn't have to be a page for, say, like, these are just two spots that are pretty easy to put up. But like, literally people do this on their personal profile and you get quite a bit of exposure. You don't get the same reach that you used to get, but you still get a lot. So like for me on my Facebook feed, I think I have like forty seven hundred friends on Facebook and I probably get at least four hundred to six hundred people that can pop on and see what I'm doing without paying Facebook any money. So it's quite a bit of exposure.

Joe:   Why not do all three, right. Sure, yeah. What else do you do in social media and by the way, Trevor Nathan, you guys are some groups I I'm going to pop your question, but what are some other social media types of marketing that you like to do?

Nate:   Yeah. Yeah. So Instagram has become quite the powerhouse. It's not exactly the demographic that gets us the most properties because it's a little bit younger crowd. Typically homeownership is a little bit older, so to speak. Not always, but sometimes so. But Instagram can work, especially if you're for buyers. If you're going to get into wholesaling, then you just want to get the attention of buyers. There's so many of them out there, you don't have to work very hard at it. But to get their attention, you literally just flash in their Instagram, like pop up at the top on Facebook, on Facebook. It'll come across the top of your screen. And then if they're directly on Instagram, it'll pop up as an ad. But I like Instagram for that. And then I previously mentioned YouTube. There's one thing that I use it for and it's to become omnipresent in someone's world. So, like, if you've ever clicked on an ad before, I know my wife, she was shopping for some kind of boots before a wedding. And all of a sudden for like three days, I could not go to any Web page on her computer without seeing those boots pop up. So that's like omnipresent. If you want that, then you can do it. Google has a ton of syndicate relationships across the Web with like Time magazine, and there is everywhere it's going to be.

Joe:   My kids play these games. Sometimes they have ads on them. Yeah. And I hate them because, you know, sometimes they'll see ads of me like, dad, your only phone. What's worse is when you get people from church. See your ad now anyway. Cool. So I love that in social media. I think a lot of people take it for granted and expect that you can actually still do deals from. We're getting some questions here. We're going to wrap it up. And just doing deals virtually you mainly focus on doing the strategy in your hometown where you can go visit the seller or you do it virtually in other markets.

Nate:   I'm almost all virtual right now, and this is a great question. The world has shifted, really. Fundamentals of real estate have shifted. The seller no longer expects no and sometimes doesn't want you to come meet them because they might have health fears and things like that. So especially we were already doing some virtual before the whole shake up. But now that the shake up has happened, we start virtually. And then if if we're sensing that the seller is leaning towards more of an in person, then we'll send either a contractor or a trusted realtor that we've got a relationship with or a property manager just to walk it, shake hands, take pictures, and then we coordinate the rest of it by phone.

Joe:   You target state counties. Do you target small markets or. You know, I know some people that are doing Facebook ads that go nationwide maybe exclude New York and California, but just leads in Facebook does a pretty good job of like giving you chief leave and the wider you go.

Nate:   Yeah, yeah. We've got some clients that do that. I don't play the big, big, wide game. I'd rather go super deep in my own niche market and there's a lot of reasons for it. No one reason when you get a deal under contract, how fast can you move it? Most people would never believe me, but like our deals move, sometimes we just have one go. A couple of days ago in twelve minutes, we've had other ones that go in an hour and people are like, what? That's not impossible. Well, it is. When you've gone really deep in the market, you've already got buyers that trust you and like you and they get a text from you that says, Hey, I got one over here, what do you think? And then they just text back and they say, yes, I want it. And then the other component is the team members on the ground, like the title company. If you're if you're trying to do a new market every day because there's a new deal and a new city, then you've got to get a new. Company, you've got to get potentially new insurance referrals if you're if you're going to keep it, you got like there's so much to think about. You're almost recreating a business every day. If you have to do that. I'd rather go really deep with one team that I know was going to perform over and over again.

Joe:  So we could target maybe a central Wisconsin, you know, the entire state of Wisconsin. How do you do that?

Nate:   No. A twenty five mile radius. If I'm going to run an ad and then I'll do three or four cities so I might have a twenty five mile radius here. And then I got another suburb up here and then another area of the core city over here. But I go pretty darn niche.

Joe:   Ok, cool. That somebody here that asks Trevor, just ask, how do you manage these options in other states? Do you do deals in other states?

Nate:   So I do, but I usually wholesale them. So I'm I'm probably not the expert there. But I'll flip that back to our friend Joe. Joe, what do you do with lease options? Other states?

Joe:   I use local realtors. It's really simple. It's not that hard. Local realtors are amazing. I kind of for years had this thing like a. a. realtor, like realtors hated us. We hate realtors, but it's not really that way. And there's a lot of hungry realtors out there that are open to more creative types as long as they're getting paid. That's all they care about for the most part. Right. You got to do the right thing. We got a lot of good questions here. We have answered a lot of them already. How can people get a hold of you? And is there anything that we didn't talk about maybe better? Is there another question that I should have asked you that I didn't?

Nate:   Yeah. Yeah, there's one. This is kind of on my heart. But most adults like, we try something and we fail and we give up really fast because we associate pain or failure with that. Whatever we tried. And I'm just going to say this, like if you tried some kind of marketing in the past and it didn't go the way you planned, you've got to get through it. Think of it more like this. I got a one year old. We got a little boy running around the house. Now, his name is John and John's running around. And as parents, we're going through that phase of where he's going from calling into walking. And he's fallen flat on his face a couple of times, like, it stops my heart. And I just want to pick him up and say, no, no, no, no more walking. I'm just going to carry you. But I know that if I don't let him continue to walk, he'd never walk. So to think that I'd ever stop. But as adults, for some reason, we fall flat on our face once and we're just like, now I'm done. I would just encourage you, like the marketing right now has never been easier than it has in our lifetime before to reach people. You can get people through the click of your thumb or your mouse on a computer. And so give yourself permission to walk again, give yourself permission to get back in the game and make real estate happen. It's a golden time right now.

Joe:   That's really reminds you of the story of a lady who saw or somebody saw a cocoon and the butterfly was trying to get out of the room. And so she gently tried to break the cocoon to help the butterfly get out of the butterfly. Part of that process of getting out of that cocoon is using its muscles to break the thing open, which helps them. So if you try to interrupt the process, sometimes we learn best from our mistakes and from our feelings for the people that succeed in this business. They succeed not because they're not making any mistakes, but they pick themselves up and they learn how to learn from their mistakes. Because I say this all the time to No. Two deals are ever the same. Every single deal is different, is going to have any problems and challenges that come up, right? Yeah, I wish it was easier. That's why it is OK. How can people get a hold of you. What's your name.

Nate:   Yeah, really simple socialmediawithnate.com. Put a slash Joe on it and I'll make sure because we love the lease option, I'll make sure that we get you some some fun options, specific social media templates.

Joe:   Is that good right there? SocialMediaWithNate.com/Joe.

Nate:   Joe, you've got it going so fast.

Joe:   Cool. And so what can they get when they go?

Nate:   Yeah, I'm going to I'm literally going to make this up on the fly, just so you know.

Joe:   But you go there now, if you're watching this live, it may not be up yet. So we have a few minutes.

Nate:   The site, the site will be there. It's right now. What we'll do is we'll let you like if you actually want to get on the phone and you want to jam and look at your business and look at how you could potentially install social media, then you could book a call there. If you don't want to talk, that's cool, too. That's fine. But one on the other side of it, what we're going to have for you is some templates for these options, specific social media posts. You want to get Steller's that will potentially release options with you, then use this template that will hook you up with no.

Joe:   It's also like you need SocialMediaWithNate.com/Joe. Check it out. Thanks for being on the show. Really appreciate it. I wrote down a question that I wanted to ask you. I always like knowing what books people are reading. So I wanted to ask you, you have a book that you are reading right now. I feel like it's really good.

Nate:   Yeah. And spoiler alert, you're reading the same one right now. One hundred million dollar offers, I'm I've literally just got it on my phone and I'm waiting for the hard copy to arrive in a couple of days. But Alex, for most, he he's nailed it. And I'll I'll tell our real estate investor friends, if you're not selling a lot of properties right now, if that's your intent to like wholesale or whatever it is, you're probably missing some things. Your offers might be boring. They're not quite attractive enough because the market's on fire right now. Read Alex's book and you'll probably get inspired to have a few more ideas on how you can make your properties move faster.

Joe:   The whole premises make an offer so good that somebody would feel stupid to say no. So when I've always done that and I love that when I'm trying to sell a deal to a tenant, to an investor, buyer and owner occupant, I'm always thinking about what's in it for them. What are they looking at when they look at this deal? How can I make this better, sweeter deal with them that will make them want to jump through hoops to get in the first of the line to get this deal? It may be as simple as getting the financing in place for your investor, but talk to some hard money trying to find a hard money lender that will look at the house and say, yeah, we'll lend money. So now you can advertise that property with the financing already in place. Maybe it's a local bank, right? Maybe it's a mortgage broker that you're working with that can help buyers that work with people who have challenged credit to get the credit fixed in six to 12 months. And now you can advertise a property with special credit repair involved for free included. Whatever. Yeah, just thinking bigger thinking about. All right, how can I make this deal, this offer so good that people will feel stupid if they say, well, maybe there's a better way to phrase a great book. It's called One Hundred Million Offers. One hundred million dollar offers. Is that right?

Nate:   Yeah. One hundred. It's the money symbol, one zero zero with a big name and then offers.

Joe:   I've been reading it on Kindle on twenty five percent of the way through Alex for most find it on Amazon. I think it's cool. Thank you so much for being on the show. Appreciate it very much.

Nate:   Yeah, thanks man. Looking forward to connecting again in the future.

Joe:   Abdnor is saying the link is not working, but it will be soon. So we just give them a few minutes. We'll get it up there later today. All right. Thanks again. We'll see you all later, everybody.

Nate:   Bye bye, guys.