To sell, you have to talk to people. Fear of rejection prevents many people from just picking up the phone and having a conversation. In this episode, Gavin talks to Claude Diamond about his G.U.T.S. sales method, a simple three-step system that generates quality daily warm leads at no cost
People like to do business with people they like. If you can get people to like you and trust you, you’ll get deals. This is a highly competitive business we’re in and the competitors are spending big money on marketing. Just get on the phone and talk! We seem to have lost the art of communication. Maybe it won’t come easy at first, but the more you do it, the easier it gets.
The first three minutes of any call is when you need to figure out if it’s going anywhere. Do they need to sell? How badly? How likely are you to get a commitment today?
We’re in this business to make money. Aim to speak to five warm leads a day. Get commitments today, get contracts today, get an appointment today. Do something today that proves why you're in business. There’s no shame in wanting to make money. You make money by communicating, by speaking to people, by having good, fun, nice conversations with good people who have a problem.
Being able to sell is a million-dollar skill. If you can sell, it doesn’t matter if you lose everything. You’ll be able to build it all backup and all you’ll need to do that is a phone. But if you don't understand the psychology of persuasion and influence, it doesn't matter how hard you work or how much money you spend, you’ll only ever be adequate.
The G.U.T.S. method is based on psychology and human behavior. It’s just three steps, like a staircase: agenda, qualification, and commitment to close. Everybody can remember three simple steps. You don’t need a script. You’re just finding out information by asking questions.
Gavin: Hey, guys, how are you doing? Welcome back to the podcast, the REI Network podcast. I am going to introduce the guest right now, a mentor of mine. This guy is awesome. You're going to love him if you don't already know him. Just before we do, if you haven't already, I want to give you some free downloads. If you go to REI Network.com/downloads. REINetwork.com/downloads. Just got a couple of things there: my contract, my lead sheet and a few extra bits, cold calling script for VAs, things like that. All right. So make sure you get that. Right. I am going to bring him over. I know a lot of you already know him, but a lot don't. And you're going to want to get to know him. So here he is coming in hot. Claude Diamond. How are you?
Claude: I'm wonderful, man. Thanks for inviting me.
Gavin: No, thank you. It has been a long time, a mentor of mine. We work together. Definitely believe in kind of what you teach and we're going to dive into that. Just the art of sales. Is anyone better in terms of just being real? Right. And not being salesy. And I was actually scared. I hesitated at the entry level to use the word script and very quickly said it's for the VA. All right, because I thought he's going to come through the screen using that word. So it's not a script. I don't believe in scripts either. It was just for the VA guys. OK, just before Uncle Claude tells me off.
Claude: Hello, Gavin. How are you today? Thank you for inviting me on the show. Do we really need scripts?
Gavin: No, absolutely.
Claude: I mean, you and I, we've been preparing this interview for days now. We must have thirty, forty hours preparation time and special effects for this interview, right?
Gavin: Absolutely. It took hours and hours on end.
Claude: Let me check my next question. Excuse me. We don't think that. We have lost the ability, maybe too much technology, OK? I mean, you know, how two teenagers make out in a car nowadays?
Gavin: Yeah, you're right, on the phone.
Claude: The drive-in worked for me. It's a movie theater, way before your time. OK. Talking to people communicating, getting them to like you. Guess what happens when people like you, they do business with you.
Gavin: Absolutely. Yeah. I can't agree. Right. So are you saying with that comment. Right. And this has probably happened to you. It has to me, that is people like you, they want to do business with who they like. And how often have you, negotiating deals, right in your time where people will take a lower price from you than a higher price for someone else? How often?
Claude: I don't know. Sometimes I don't even argue with people. Sometimes I'll just say, what do you want? Why are you even selling the home, sir? You know, why don't you just leave it on the market, give it to a realtor or something. You're not in any rush, Mr. Timms, are you? Mr. Timms, this is your own home, sir. How long you been in this lovely home with your kids and your wife? And the three chihuahuas. How long you been in this house?
Gavin: We've been in about five years.
Claude: Hey, another five isn't long enough. Oh, my God. Stay another five, ten, fifteen years. Mark on the walls as kids grow taller. You really don't want to sell it, right?
Gavin: We do. We've got to get a bigger house. With too many kids and the dogs. We need something bigger. We're definitely going to sell.
Claude: No rush. I mean, no rush is six months from now. A year from now. There's no sense of urgency right now.
Gavin: I mean, I'd prefer to do it within the next 30 days, if possible.
Claude: Well, I'd like to be six foot two, but God made me five eight what? Sometimes you just got to deal with the stuff you have. What am I doing here?
Gavin: You're basically allowing me to sell to you.
Claude: Oh, say that again. That was brilliant.
Gavin: So you're allowing me to sell to you.
Claude: What is the average sales person? Hi. Let me tell you about lease purchasing. Let me tell you how wonderful I am. I walk on water. Your house needs repairs. You're going to have to lower the price. And I need special terms and everything. Do you think they've heard that all before?
Gavin: Yes. One hundred percent.
Claude: I make an assumption in this business. I make an assumption that I'm not the first person theyspoke to. True or false?
Gavin: Oh, 100 percent. You're definitely not the first.
Claude: Yeah, we're in a competitive business and I'm a kiss method guy. I love to keep things simple. I absolutely love to talk to people. Oh, OK. But let's reverse engineer it. If I was the prospect, would I want ten people a day calling me. You know, it dices, it slices. I have just 20, 30, 40 questions to ask you, you know, and everything. Instead why don't we get a dialog, a conversation with this person. And as you just said, why don't we turn the prospect into the salesperson where they start explaining I have to sell it, we need more room. My wife is pregnant. My brother-in-law and his five kids are moving. And God forbid, OK, I lost my job. My wife got relocated. When you get that good hard information up front, does that allow you in maybe two or three minutes to make a determination about whether you have a viable prospect?
Claude: And then you know how to sell them. OK, I might have a solution for you, sir. No guarantees. I have a couple ideas here. I can give you a full price. I can give you a price, give you terms. A couple of things. And can we talk about that for a minute? And I'll make an offer. And if we can do business, wonderful, that's how I make a living and put mac and cheese on the table. And if not, do me a favor. Tell me to get lost. I don't want to bother you.
Gavin: Yeah, I think there's a couple of things there. You said I might be able to help you. Right. So it's a very soft approach. You're not saying you have the answer. I might be able to do this. I might be able to do that. And it's just keeping that then real. And also I'm saying that negative phrasing right at the end and say, if I don't want to bother you, if this doesn't work, just let me know. We can get off the phone because that just kind of calms everyone down. Right. If you can calm the seller down, you can now have an educated conversation, which I think you do.
Claude: You have to initiate. I want them to like me. I'm a big fan of Robert Cialdini, The Psychology of Persuasion and Sales. He basically says some principles. And the number one principle. You know, we have a lot of competition in this business, as I said, and that competition spends a lot of money on marketing, on TVs, on mailers, on texting and everything else. But my goal is when I get on the phone with somebody, if I can get them to like me and God forbid, trust me, okay? I've just devastated by all this competitiveness in the marketplace. OK, what do we want people to say about us when we get off the phone? Hey, I'm not a straight guy in a straight world. I met you know what? I like this guy or I think this guy can follow through. Let me talk to my spouse or whatever. I'm looking for a commitment in the first phone call. And I am. And while I am a nice guy and I love to have fun and laugh and have a good time, I can be assertive. You're not allowed to think about it, Mr. Prospect.
Gavin: Yeah, I know.
Claude: You're not allowed to think about it. What do you mean? How dare you. Sir, I think you're more worried about my feelings. People, when they say to me they want to think about it, what they really mean is goodbye. It's over. Let's just say it's over. But your problem still exists. You want to buy a home, sell a home, invest in a home. Let's go. And then you can go back into the sale again. There's different psychological moves that I do throughout the conversation and they don't see what I'm doing. That was the whole point of having a system, a good sale system to sell differently from all my other competition.
Gavin: Yeah, and I want to talk about that in one in a minute. I got a question. You just held it up. If you're watching this on YouTube, you'll see this. If you listen on the podcast, you won't but you've got a little egg timer, right, that you use.
Claude: I did on my honeymoon. If my wife hears this I get in a lot of trouble.
Gavin: She'll start throwing things at you. She just left. Right. That's why you said it.
Claude: Three minutes man. These are the little bits of sand. That's your life baby.
Gavin: Yeah. Absolutely.
Claude: So if you want to waste it. Or do you want to go to the bank. Do you want to have fun? Do you want to enjoy this journey we call life?
Gavin: Yeah. So the point is, though, what you're saying within three minutes you need to know if this is going anywhere right now. That's the goal.
Claude: Yeah. Don't you, you know, don't when we meet somebody, you ever meet somebody, you met them and you just you just liked each other right away. There was a commonality. There was just something about that person. You know, there was a connection to a connective tissue. there or something like that. I want to work smart. In the old days, I was the former world's worst sales guy, and I'd get my car drive around. I'd give presentations all day long and I'd come home. I'd be tired, emotionally drained and the greatest sin of all, I didn't make any money. Why are we in business, man?
Gavin: Make money.
Claude: Today. Get commitments today, get contracts today, get an appointment today. Do a podcast today. Get something today that proves why you're in business. We're doing too much running around, too much busy work and we're forgetting the one reason we're in business, you know, even a little money every day at the end of the month. It's cumulative. It's a lot of money. Yeah. And I think we do too much of that stuff and we forget why we're in business. Yeah.
Gavin: And there's nothing wrong with that. Right. There's nothing wrong with making money cos people shy away. Well, I'm here to help the person. Well yeah you are there to help the person to solve a problem. But you're doing it to make money, there's nothing wrong with that. You don't want to do it for free. So you say you want to make money. Of course you want to help and solve the problem, which is fine.
Claude: Yeah, I had a speaking engagement, a very large real estate club here in California, lady in the front row, people in the front row from my fellow speakers are always the most dangerous people. OK, there they are to do something to you. So the lady goes, Mr. Diamond, she raises her hand. Mr. Diamond, all you ever talk about is making money. I'm a realtor. I came as an investor. I came here to help people just like that, she said. So I'm a little bit of a hambone. I took a very long, dramatic pause. The audience is hush. It's one of those, you know, six hundred people in the audience. You can't hear a pin drop and I waited about five, six seconds. And I said, well, that is the sickest thing I've ever heard. You can't help anybody if you can't take care of. I believe charity begins at the home. I wanted to take care of my responsibilities, my bills. I want to live. Listen, I don't need a jet or a Bentley or these guys you see on other things. I just wanted to live life where I didn't have to go to bed and worry about money. OK, and the wonderful thing about making a lot of money, because my wife and I, we don't have any employees I call kitchen table millionaires or what I always wanted to be. Working from home, being able to just pay my bill. Go to bed, not think about money to me is one of my definitions of success. And then now you have money to write to your favorite charities or religious organizations. You can volunteer because you have that wonderful flexibility of time. You don't have to hustle all the time.
Gavin: So yes,
Claude: That's a good point. You've got to make some money and don't be ashamed of it. But once you have money and you're set for life, you can volunteer, you can write checks. You can be a philanthropist.
Gavin: Absolutely. I remember Dolf de Roos said a couple of weeks ago when I seen him that he loves going to bed because when he wakes up, he wakes up basically richer. What did I tell you this morning? Yeah, exactly. We were about to go, right. I'm going to hit record and then you went, oh I just made a thousand bucks.
Claude: Yeah. It just came through automatically. I never take you know, I think God made me broke for a reason at one point in my life. You know that feeling at 2:00 in the morning. How am I going to pay the rent? I've been there and I'm almost glad I went through that period of life. It's very stressful. So I understand when people have a lack of money, because when you start to find something that works, that you love, going to work, I love going to work. I'll never retire. I could have retired a long time ago. I love talking to people, a few people every day, warm calls, solving problems, making an honest buck in this great business we call creative real estate. I love it, you know. And why stop doing something you love? You know, it's just fantastic.
Gavin: Absolutely. I agree. So let's talk about this different method. Obviously, you have the G.U.T.S. method, right?
Claude: Three steps.
Gavin: Three steps, three little steps.
Claude: Yeah. I think we work on the wrong end of the problem. I've been mentoring people for a long time. And your traditional guru or real estate teacher mentor, they do about 75, 80 percent motivation. They tell their stories and it's a lot of motivation. Then you sign up for a program and you get the strategies which are very important. You need to know what are we going to do. Wholesaling, I love lease purchasing like you and Joe do. I love all the strategy. Subject to. I can do cash offers today. I couldn't do that when I first got started. So the strategies are important. Then the next step is the marketing. Marketing is important. We want quality leads every day. My goal is to speak to five warm leads a day. That's my goal and that's what I teach my students. And I have a marketing plan for that too. But the most important, because I've met people so much smarter than me, hardworking, decent people. They spend a lot of time and money. I'm learning the strategies, setting up the marketing. But when it comes to picking up this stuff, this is where. Oh, my God. Deer in the headlights time. Yeah, OK. And this is where you make your money, ladies and gentlemen, you make your money by communicating, by speaking to people, by having good, solid, fun, warm conversation, nice conversations with good people who have a problem. You have to become the Doctor of Real Estate. And if you don't work, if you don't understand the psychology of persuasion and influence, this is where I become, I'm like a motivational speaker, OK? It doesn't matter how hard you work, how much money you spend, you've got to be not good, not adequate. You've got to be superb in your communication skills with people. You've got to learn to ask questions like a doctor would in an examination room. You've got to learn how to make people like and trust you. You've got to learn how to get information in just a small period of time. When I met my mentor and I saw that he could close people and get commitments and appointments and contracts and in one phone call, I just thought how did you do that, man? I'm running around all over the place, getting I'll think about it. Call me later. I'll talk to my lovely spouse. I was getting that all day long. Guess how much money you make when people when people manipulate you, lie to you or put you off. Guess how much.
Claude: Zero. So I wanted to develop a system based on what I learned from my experiences and my mentor and my studies in psychology, human behavior. And I developed a simple little three step system. I've written several books on it on my web page, ClaudeDiamond.com. Can I give something away for free? I don't like to sell stuff, but I must do it. You guys, you go to my web page, ClaudeDiamond.com and there's a little thing there: contact Claude or something. And you put in I love Gavin or Joe. You put that in there in the little message box and I'm going to send you a free book, free mind map. I'll send you a bunch of free stuff. OK, that's my gift to you for listening to this wonderful podcast.
Gavin: Yeah, awesome. We appreciate that. So remember, guys put up on the screen as well, ClaudeDiamond.com, and then what, Claude, when they get there? What do they have to go to?
Claude: There's a little button there. Just says Contact Claude and put in I love Gavin or Joe or there's another button on the left-hand column. It says Claude Freebies, all kinds of free books and mind maps. I love mind maps too, by the way. I have a great mind map on the gut sales method. Three steps like a staircase: agenda, qualification, and commitment to close. Everybody can remember three simple steps. If you can remember those three simple steps and then practice and then learn the nuances of G.U.T.S., asking questions, OK, you don't need a script or anything when you're asking questions. You just want information. You might want to use a little what we call redirection. Gavin, you know, and we did that in the Gavin. You don't want to sell it home. Gavin, why do you want to buy a home that you could lease purchase out and make eighteen, twenty five percent return on your money, put it in the bank at one percent. Right. Isn't that what you really want.
Gavin: I don't want to do that.
Claude: Oh. You'd like that eighteen to twenty five percent return. Well OK. You mind if I ask you a little, a few more questions. Maybe I can help you today.
Gavin: Yeah. And that maybe is huge because again you're not doing that I can help you today because it's too forceful. Right. So that's really good. But one thing that I think we talked about the problem. People don't want to pick up the phone. Right. And it's obviously down to fear right. Fear of the phone. And we have a lot of listeners that are going to be like, yes, they're going to be shaking their heads or whatever. Listening in the car, wherever they are, that are going to be kind of saying yes it's the fear. I'm scared to pick up the phone. How do you take someone to get over the fear and to pick up the phone?
Claude: Great question. First thing I say to him is it's not you. People personalize it. Oh, I'm not working hard enough and they are working hard enough. Can I be should I tell you the truth or just make you feel good today, Gavin?
Gavin: Let's have the truth.
Claude: The truth is we all have a fear, a fear of rejection, a fear that another human being won't like us, will hang up the phone on us. This is natural. This is survival. Who wants to be in this business? Sooner or later we have to talk one on one. We have to negotiate with the buyer, the seller, the investor, the lawyer, the realtor. We have to talk to a lot of people and we have to talk one on one. And when we're making a lot of return phone calls or even phone calls where our VA or somebody set up an appointment for us, it's where we have that anxiety. The phone becomes like a cactus. We have a lot of cactus here in Southern California. You don't want to pet a cactus, OK? And that fear of rejection, of anxiety will make us procrastinate. I'm just speaking my truth here. I hated making these phone calls. I would say, oh, honey, it's time to clean the toilet or something. And how do we overcome that fear? We have a system, and we practice that. So first of all, we recognize that everybody has it. How do we make ourselves comfortable? We learn a system making the other person listen to us. Why do people want to listen to us? We don't use the script. We don't sound the same as everyone else. You call somebody else, you call somebody. What's the definition of insanity, Gavin? Doing that same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. So let's does not do the same thing. Let's call people up and we use pattern interrupts where we might start off, ring, ring and they say, hello, how can I help? Yeah. How can I help you, sir? When you called me, you say you get a cookie. Sir, I got your name and number in front of me here. Mr. Timms. Why help me out? Why am I calling? This isn't about real estate. Is it anything I can do to maybe sound familiar? Somebody comes up to you and says, Gavin Timms, how are you, how's the family? You don't know who they are, you forgot. Are you going to be polite to them? To you figure it out? Of course you are. You're a nice guy.
Gavin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Claude: We have to find a way, a system so that we make phone calls cold, warm, lukewarm or hot, cold. So we make them fun. We make them friendly. I laugh a lot. I have a lot of fun with my phone calls. Can you imagine calling up total strangers? There's a great video Joe and I did. We always talk about it. He gave me this phone number. I don't know where he got it. And I was very lucky that I got a really sweetheart guy on the phone with a property near where I lived in Colorado. I also live there. And the guy was great. And we had this wonderful conversation, made commitments and everything. And the thing about it is, can we make sales? Can we overcome that fear by making ourselves so comfortable, like putting on a warm pair of slippers? Can we practice this? I do a lot of role-playing practice with my sister. All right. Give me a stall. Give me an objection. Give me a cold call and let's practice it, you know, and you guys do that to you. You guys are gutsy. And the more we practice, the more confident we become when we build up our confidence. What happened?
Gavin: We get better, more confident, it's going to flow better. It's just like I always say, and call one and two. It might be a little bit ropey and hairy, but after 15 and 20, you're rolling on you. You're in, it is flowing, you're comfortable, you're confident, and it just gets better. It's not as rigid, which is huge. And I think with the scripts as well, like, you know, it's a common thing. A lot of you got a script. The problems with a script, really good. If it stays on script, as soon as they threw a curveball and it's not your next line, well, then what do you do? That's a bit I've never understood about a script.
Claude: Yeah, I was on the board of directors of the theater in Colorado that Claudia, my wife and I built and everything. And one thing I know, all the actors have to have a script. If only half the actors on the stage and they're producing Nicholas Nickleby or something, God forbid it's way too long. It's worse than Cats. But the thing about it is, if only half the actors have a script, what do the other actors do? So you want to use something we talk about? It's called a pattern interrupt. You want to sound different on the phone? You almost want to sound familiar. You want to use humor. And we practice this. It's part of the sales method. So if I can speak, I have only one goal that I that I set for my students. Can you speak to three, four or five people a day on the phone and Zoom in person? Can you speak to people every day and create a comfortable environment and then make offers? I make offers every day. I follow up every day. I get warm calls, appointments, every day. I have a very good marketing system. I believe in virtual attraction marketing where if I have enough people I love. Who doesn't love warm calls versus cold calls, of course. But if I speak to just a few handfuls of people a day, magic happens. I ask questions. What would you like to see happen? I even go to people. I've made the decision we're going to do business today. We're going to make a commitment. How do you feel about that? Or I think Mr. and Mrs. Prospect, I think it's over. You're in no rush to sell your home. You're trying to get the top price. Good for you. I'd do the same thing. Doesn't sound like we're going to do anything creative today. And you don't want to discount the home. I feel like it's over. How about you?
Gavin: Yeah. And that there, that pull away is going to happen. They're going to say, well, now hold on. Well, maybe they're going to come again. That chase is now back on. Right. And no. And you're better than anyone when it comes to psychological. But for me, when I sell, when I tell you Claude no, or I tell you, no you don't want to do that right now. I don't think I'm the guy. You want it more. But if I say Claude, you need to do this. This is what you need to do. Now you're going to pull away. Right? So if I pull, you're going to come towards me. And I think that's the goal.
Claude: We have rights in the sales process, OK? We have the right. OK, I really believe that most of the people you teach, that I teach, I really believe these are good people. They just want to put mac and cheese on the table. They just want to take care. They don't need a Lamborghini or anything. They just want to make a living. And I think they want to do business honestly and ethically. They want to help people, as we said earlier. But they still are entitled. And we have rights in the process. We can't go running around staying up till twelve o'clock at night doing contracts unless we have a commitment, unless we have information from people. OK, I look to get some kind of commitment in the first phone call. It can be a partial or tentative commitment. It can be a full commitment or it can be. It's over. It's closure. Mr. Timms, doesn't sound like we're going to do business today. Listen, you've been a great guy. I'm going to send you a little gift for you and your lovely lady and everything. And if your situation changes, my contact information will be in there. I'll also include a letter of intent. I'll put in three offers. If you ever change your mind, please feel free to contact me. I'll give you my personal number. You have a great day. It was a real pleasure to meet with you. See my psychology, I'm sensitive. I cry at Disney movies, OK? I'm still upset about Bambi's mom and the fire. If I have a good phone call. I understand my psychology, I'm honest with myself and I know that if I get too much rejection, I don't want to talk to people. But if I have good conversation, if I have friendly, even when I don't do business, if I have good conversations, can I make the next call and the call after that and the call after that. And we're not speaking to enough people or not making enough offers. We're not following up enough. This is a business. But let's it but let's make it so it's comfortable for the prospect as well as ourselves.
Gavin: Yeah, absolutely. And we're going to get through. I mean, I say there's four fundamentals to the business: marketing is obviously number one. Then obviously talking to people, making offers and follow-up. Every business in real estate, whatever the strategy, the four things that need to be done. And the problem is, is that second stage of the phone people want to skip it cannot be skipped. Right. You cannot miss that on that stage because if you are not willing to do it, you're wasting your time buying programs, working with coaches, mentors, whatever you pay in and whatever your buy in is that people hide behind education. I'm a big believer. I cannot tell you how many people I told you, but every course on the market without taking any action. Why? Because it's the fear of actually doing something they can come to, course. I've been so busy. I've been through this course at that coarse and I've been working right. They can go home to the wife or the husband. So I'm really busy day. I watch these videos and I've done all these things right. And it's just hiding behind.
Claude: I love that. That's a takeaway, ladies and gentlemen. OK, listen to this guy. You can't hide behind education. Sooner or later, all the education and you need your knowledge. You need to do your marketing. You need the leads, OK? You need to set up your team if that's important to you. But sooner or later, you've got to speak to people on a consistent basis. I talk to people every day. I make offers every day. Do I get accepted every day? Of course not. Nobody does. But that consistent routine that developing those good habits day after day and learning how to overcome the fear I did. I have so many people on the phone, fear thing that you were bringing up the fear of being rejected. I so many I did a fear package how to overcome fear just recently because so many people were talking to me about Claude, I can't pick up that phone. I'm just scared of the rejection. I'll do anything before I talk to people. And that's why I made that. That's how to overcome phone for your package. You got to have a system. You've got to practice with a partner, with your mentor, with your peers, or drive your spouse crazy and, you know, and roleplay with him or her. OK, that's the thing. You get a system in practice a lot and get so good on the phone. Superb is the word I love to use. You have no reluctance. I go to Wal-Mart. When I go to Wal-Mart, I engage the greeter. I don't just say hi and walk in the store. I say, gee, did you go to Wal-Mart school? How do you like greeting it all day long here? Does it get cold standing by the door? I will ask silly questions and I just want to see if I can engage this person, make them. I love making the person on the cash register. I love making them smile. Yeah. Gee, what's the high point of your day breaking one-hundred-dollar bill. I mean, anything.
Gavin: No, you're so right.
Claude: You can have so much fun in this. I think I'm the only salesperson in the world who uses the word fun. You can have fun, you can be assertive, not a bully, but you can be assertive and in control. I think most people are submissive and subservient in the sales process, and it leaves them feeling wanting. It leaves them feeling like this is not fun. I love talking to people. I love using a lot of a lot of reverse psychology. I also use a lot of suggestion. I'm a big fan of Milton Erickson. I do a lot I do a lot of painting. I paint pictures in people's minds using the five senses, telling stories to imagine yourself. Hey, do you like the smell of fresh paint, Gavin? When you walk into a home, I love that clean smell a brand-new home. And imagine Thanksgiving, the family sitting around the table. There's a roast in the oven. Can you smell that roast? And on the fireplace is going to hear that crackle of the woods and everything like that and. And the kids and the kids are snug on the couch with a blanket and everything. And the dog is on your lap, your pin boom. What's that picture? Can you paint pictures in people's minds?
Gavin: Yeah, that's genius. And here's the thing. People listen like and again, maybe they don't know you like you legit do this. I've watched you do it. This is legit, like I've watched you do it like it is genius, because that thought process, you're taking them on a journey. And if you ask good questions, you know what they want, right? They know they want a bigger house. And I'm big on the art of cells as well. To me is listening, listening and then replaying information. So if they want a bigger house, if they want these things that they told you, you need to roll that into your story. Imagine the big house, imagine walking it. Imagine how grand it would look then things there, because you know what they want. So you have to play into the story. And it is an art is an art to do it. And the only way you're going to do it is to practice it.
Claude: Yeah, I learned so much. This is the greatest time. I've been doing this a long time, OK? And this is the greatest time I've ever seen to run your own business from your home, from your kitchen table. We have social media marketing and I've learned so much from TikTok and from Facebook. And I love YouTube, as you guys do. And one of the most on YouTube or TikTok. One of the most popular videos, I love the food videos. OK, where the traveling going to different restaurants where they're cooking and stuff. People love food. Food is very sensual. You know, food is you know, you watch that, and you start seeing somebody making a BLT, bacon, lettuce, tomato sandwich and they fry the bacon you're in. You're not there, but you could never walk into a house with bacon going or bread cooking or cookies are loving and stuff like that. And you're watching a video. And I don't know about you. I'm very, very susceptible to suggestion. My wife goes to me, Honey, what do you want for dinner? And I said, I don't know. She said, how about a grilled cheese sandwich? We haven't had that. And my wife makes great grilled cheese sandwiches. I mean, they're beautiful cheese melting. She uses like three cheeses, maybe a little bacon on it, some really good homemade bread. And you bite into it in the crunch and the cheese. See, what am I doing right now? Tell me you're not thinking of about that grilled cheese.
Gavin: I'm thinking yeah I need three tonight.
Claude: Can we do that in sales? See, most people sell intellectually, they give facts and figures. Let me tell you about the square footage and this and that. Why do people really want to buy a home or sell a home or why do people really take action when it's really more emotional? People make decisions emotionally, they just justify them eventually, intellectually. Can I afford it? Can I pay for it? Can I finance it? Can I live with this decision? But they truly make their initial decision emotionally. This is the million-dollar rule, by the way. This is one of the most important things. So when we talk about the five senses in painting a picture in their minds, oh, my gosh, this is the way you persuade people, this is the way you can one person giving good phone can become a millionaire in this business.
Gavin: Absolutely. There are two things. Obviously, it's the million-dollar skill. Right. But also as well, one thing that I did learn is that when you get good, sales is dangerous. Right. And I got that from you because you can persuade, and you can do the bad things. You can do the wrong things because it is you all persuading someone. And I think that's when you've got to you know, if you're not a nice guy or gal, you can persuade people into bad things as well. But that is the art of sales. And I love that. And I don't stop persuading people things when you know it's not right for them. And just because you can persuade them to do something, I think that's really important for people listening to understand that you can get good, and you've got to like make sure that you're doing it right.
Claude: You can make so much money in this business by helping people, by following the law. OK, I've studied law. I want to do the right thing with people. I don't want trouble. I don't want problems. I don't want nasty letters from lawyers and things. You can do the right thing and people they love when you're different from everyone else. I'm pretty transparent. I'm pretty obvious with people, you know, why should I work with you? You know, maybe you should answer. I'm not the right guy. Maybe I might be the right maybe you should work with me. If you want to get your house sold, if you'd like to get into a house with a lease purchase in the next 30 days for rent, or that will fit with your budget and have a steppingstone towards American freedom, maybe that maybe you should work with me if those are the things you want. If you don't want those things, I'll leave you scarcity. Are you social proof? OK, I use a lot of reciprocity because sir, can I ask one favor of you? The great discussion, everything. I'm going to drop the agreement and you and your lovely bride are going to look at it. Could you do me one favor? Could we meet on Zoom at 4.30 today?If we decide to move forward could you give me a commitment? If you don't like the deal, tell me, Claude, get lost and it's over and we're screwed and we're still friends. All right, yeah, I can use reciprocity, I can use scarcity, I can use all the authority, I use authority a lot.
Gavin: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think as well with that with the Zoom comment. Right. That works well. And people don't want to get on Zoom because you're willing to, especially if you're in a different state. I do a lot of virtual right. And I'm from England, so I've got an accent and I'm not in the area.
Claude: I thought that was a Brooklyn accent. Wait a second.
Gavin: Yeah, yeah. We live down the street. We sound similar.
Claude: What's it like for a Brit to live in America? How different. I've been to England, my daughter studied in England and everything like that. Do you miss the food and the culture and everything? You know?
Gavin: Everyone asks, like, what do you miss? And it's the food. Friends and family. That's it. But I think the opportunity, you know, the American dream, the opportunities here, I believe it. And I think in England, not that you can't make money in England. I'm not saying that. But people don't realize the whole of Britain fits in Texas. Right. That's what we're dealing with in terms of size when people think about it. So the opportunity in the United States of America is endless. And the people here, like I'm obviously grateful to be here and have the opportunity. So I probably look like it, it's just like anything. If you grow up with something, you don't appreciate it. I'm sure. I do the same thing right.
Claude: Get over this language barrier thing, you know.
Gavin: Yeah, and exactly. And that's the thing. There's times when you know, the certain words that I use. Right. And I try and if I speak to people back home, like you sound so American, because I'm converting words to get by, because if I don't and I say things, people are like, what was that? What is that? And then I'm like, I can't sometimes think of the other words like, you know, it could be the trunk and the boot. We call it the boot. It's exactly things like that.
Claude: And it's Budweiser, not Boddingtons. You know. I love Boddingtons, by the way.
Gavin: I was in the middle of Georgia somewhere, at a breakfast place. And they clearly do not get internationals through. And I was in a breakfast and I was trying to order butter, you know, for your bread? But we say butter. And she kept repeating it to me. I have no idea what this thing was. I was like, oh, she's like, blah, blah, blah. And I'm doing it. The action on the bread, you know, like, butter. And the guy with me is American. He was like butter, and she's all butter. And then it was, how do you not even get that, like what is that? And then people coming out of the kitchen and they're like, oh, can you speak? Can you say this? Cos they just don't come across this. It's crazy.
Claude: We have a British pub here in San Diego. It's called Shakespeare's. They have all the great British beer. I love British beer, by the way. Yeah. And they have the best fish and chips. I mean, the huge pieces of cod and the crunch, you know, forget about Popeye's Chicken, get a good fish and chips and the chips are the French fries and you put a little that good Heinz vinegar on it. Oh, man.
Gavin: So good.
Claude: What did I just do, by the way?
Gavin: Yeah. You want me to fly home to get it.
Claude: Yeah, I put a picture in people's minds. We're storytellers. If we're going to be successful in this business, we have to tell stories. We have to ask questions. We have to have a system. So, and this is the million-dollar skill. If you can just speak to a few people comfortably every day, everything will fall into place and you will have very little competition. By the way, there's no competition when you're a great gut salesperson. You know my definition. Last word, because I know we've got to go. So much for that short conversation. Right. You and I got nothing to talk about today. The thing about it is, my definition of success is that you could take everything away from me, houses, money, savings, retirement, everything, and keep me healthy. And just let me have my understanding of how to sell my system and give me to a phone. I'll go to Wal-Mart. I'll get a twenty dollar burner phone, throwaway phone. Get me on that phone and I will be back on top, a one percenter, a top wage earner in thirty days or less. That's when you truly have freedom. The freedom comes with the ability to know you could lose everything. But getting back on the phone again in this wonderful business and just call buyers, call sellers and put deals together, just getting on that phone, talking to people. You know, you can always make an honest buck if you have a system and know how to communicate.
Gavin: One hundred percent agree. And this works as well for any industry, not just real estate. If you know you can sell anything. Right. And that's what you're saying. Me and Joe have conversations. Now, what would we do if it all went away? Give me a phone. I could sell anything, any product, anything. If I know about it, I can sell it right, and I think you're exactly right, that's why it is the million-dollar skill. So, awesome. Anything else, Claude? I'm going to give you, I know we're going to give some information on you here in a second, but anything else you want to share before we're done? This has been amazing.
Claude: Thank you. And Joe. And ladies and gentlemen, I'll tell you what, I don't like all the guys out there doing education, but Gavin and Joe McCall, these guys are real and they care and they give great information. And they're not competitors of mine. They're my friends. They do a great job out there. So that's why I'm on this podcast today, by the way.
Gavin: I appreciate that. Thank you.
Claude: It's the truth. You guys are givers. You know, you're not just takers. And I appreciate your style and the way you educate people. So thank you. You've made this better for a lot of people.
Gavin: No, thank you. I appreciate the kind words. And guys, if you're not following Claude, you need to go over to his YouTube channel. Remember, I want to flip up a couple of links here, go to his website, make sure you get them freebies. It's a no brainer. You're not going to be disappointed. Also, he does something that's insane, OK? This is insane. And he's going to do it because I already checked. You still do it. He's like of course. How dare I say ask that question. Yes. He gives his personal cell and answers his phone. It's on behind him on the back if you're watching us live or you're watching on YouTube. It is 9702815151. All right.
Claude: Why am I insane? Why do I do the opposite of all my competitors? I say, call me. I answer my own phone. I'm not here to sell things. Go to my web page. I want to give you some free books and things like that. Why do I always do the opposite of everyone else? Am I a contrarian? What's the rule? What's wrong with me? Am I. Maybe I am insane. I don't know.
Gavin: Well, no. You're obviously a giver, right? You're giving it. And the difference is, though, is that you can control conversations. Right. The art of controlling things. So when people are calling you're not going to spend three hours on the phone chatting about the weather. You're going to get down to whatever you need to talk about, and we give loads of free information as well. Very accessible. But the thing is, is that you've always done this. This has been your thing and you answer your phone. It is you, right? It's not someone else. It's not a VA. It's not an admin. It's actually you.
Claude: I am a little crazy. And can I answer every phone call? No, I'm on the phone. I'm working. I'm doing my own deals and things like that. But the bottom line is, guess what happens when you speak to a few people every day?
Gavin: Things happen, money is made.
Claude: You get to the magic moment, you make money. And I think we've gotten too far away from that skill of communication with people. We can learn it and we can practice it and we can have whatever we want in life.
Gavin: Yeah, absolutely. And the last thing is his email email@example.com. If you want to shoot Claude an email. I think the key is as well, as educators, as mentors, whatever it is that we are, is that you need to be accessible. And that's what Claude does is give you three ways there and make sure again, finally, that you go to ClaudeDiamond.com and get them freebies because you will not regret it. All right, Claude, it has been a pleasure. Coffee with Claude.
Claude: Your time's up.
Gavin: I know. I'm done. You got to go. I got to go. I appreciate you, sir. Thank you so much. And we'll catch up soon.
Claude: Thank you. Thanks to everybody.