Joe: Welcome. This is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. What's going on, everybody, this is Joe, and this is the Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast. Glad you're here. Got a great episode today. We're going to be talking about some of the common obstacles that a lot of beginners face getting into this business. You know, we are all there. If you have done a deal or two, you're not a beginner anymore. But most of the people listening to real estate investing podcasts like this, I think, are in a place where you've maybe never done a deal before. And you've been studying. You've been doing everything that you think you should be doing, and you've been taking the classes, going through the courses, watching the videos, listening to the podcasts, maybe even dabbled a little bit and done some research and made some offers. But you haven't done your first deal yet. Well, congratulations. You're a beginner. And guess what? All of us that have done deals before have all started as beginners. So, we want to encourage you.

On this episode, I got a great guest named Viktor that we're going to be talking to, he's from Florida, who does a real good job of helping people who are beginners get unstuck. And there's nothing wrong with, of course, being a beginner, but there's something wrong with staying a beginner. Man, I stayed a beginner for three years. I was a professional student for three years. And finally, I was able to get out of my own way and start doing deals. And we're going to be talking about that on this podcast.

OK, first, I want to let you all know this podcast is brought to you by my new program called PartnerWithJoe.net. PartnerWithJoe.net is where I'm going to take you through how to do your first deal in the fastest and easiest way possible. It's a 30-day program. I just put it together. It's called Partner With Joe because I want to partner with more people on deals. And I'm also lending money on deals, buying deals, wholesaling deals together. It's pretty cool. And I'm teaching you how to find all the buyers and sellers that you could ever need through this 30-day program. And a part of this is a software that I built that helps you evaluate deals and make offers and then create presentations that you can send to the sellers that explain what a lease option is, what a cash offer is, what an owner financing deal is, etc. So, if you want the free version of the calculator, you can get it for free at PartnerWithJoe.net. After you download that or look at the software there, the next page will talk to you about the Partner With Joe program. It's just seven bucks a month and it's my best stuff. I'm excited about it. Go check it out, PartnerWithJoe.net. And I get this question a lot. Let me just say it because I know some of you already have my main lease option courses or you have my coaching or whatever. If you already have my lease option course or my coaching, you already have Partnered With Joe. So, you don't need to get Partnered With Joe. You already have it. All right. So, is that it for house cleaning stuff? I think we are good. Oh, let me say one more thing, too. I just started a new webinar series called REI Secrets. I started two new webinar series, which I'm super excited about. I started a new webinar series with Pace Morby and Matt Theriault called The Creative Financing Lab. We will be live tomorrow morning as I'm recording this every Wednesday at 10:00 a.m. Central, 9 a.m. Eastern, 7:00 a.m. Pacific, I think. Right. We're going to be going live with myself, Matt Theriault and Pace Morby. We're going to be talking about all things creative financing. So, stay tuned. Watch out for that on the YouTube's, on the podcasts. It's pretty cool. It'll be on Matt's channel, my channel, Pace's channel. It's called the Creative Financing Lab podcast. It's a lot of fun. Just for about an hour we get together, talk about deals, talk about creative financing, what's working, what's not. The other thing is I also started a show called REI Secrets, and it's a weekly training video that I'm doing where I'm just teaching really cool stuff. It's not a coaching call. I'm not taking questions. I'm just going to be. My goal for the next 6-12 months is to teach more live content on podcasts, but also on YouTube, just as a way for me to teach some cool stuff. All right. So just keep an eye out for that. If you are on my email list, you will be notified when those things are happening. So just join my email list somehow. If you go to my website, JoeMcCall.com, or just sign up for PartnerWithJoe.net. Also, as we were doing this, we are broadcasting live on Facebook and YouTube. So, I'm getting a lot of people that are posting questions and comments in here from YouTube and Facebook. So, hello. Say hi. And when I bring Viktor on here, and he's being very patient, then you can ask him questions, anything you want. Cool. Now let's bring on Viktor. You're a Czech, did I say that, right, Viktor?

 Viktor: You got it, yeah.

Joe: A good friend that I met from a mastermind in Florida. What was it earlier this year or late last year?

Viktor: Late last year, September or October it was in Tampa, REI family reunion. Yeah.

Joe: Yes. So, the cool thing about Viktor, which I thought was so cool, was he's from Slovakia or his family was, is. And you still speak Czech?

Viktor:  That's right, I still speak it. And we speak it at home, too. All my family's here in Gainesville and it's really cool. It's really cool to have a secret language, when you're buying a car or buying a house or something, if you could speak to someone.

Joe:That nobody else knows.

Viktor: That nobody else knows, exactly.

Joe: Dobry den. I'm glad you're here.

Viktor: Dobry den. Good day. Awesome.

Joe: That means “good day”. I know one other word, maybe.

Viktor: A swear word?

Joe: No, no swear words. I'll save it for the end, and if you remind me, I'll save it because it kind of means goodbye. But glad you're here, Viktor. We were talking about it, this mastermind. One of the things you're really good at is helping people get unstuck, helping beginners especially of get over their roadblocks, get over their mental blocks and barriers. It's easy for us to say, man, we're on the other side. We've been there, done that, done tons and tons of deals. And it's easy to look back and say, well, what's the big deal? Just do it. All right? Just like, why are you waiting? Stop asking so many questions. Just do it, right? And that not very helpful I have found when I'm coaching somebody. Right. But you're much better at that. So, talk Viktor, would you, about what are some of the common roadblocks and why do sometimes beginners struggle so much with doing their first deal?

Viktor:  Yeah, I know. Absolutely. And appreciate you having me on. Definitely. So, what I found a lot is people are just getting into their heads, and a lot of common questions that I get, like how do I get the money? So, I do flips and I teach people how to do flips. So, it's always like, how do I get the money? How do I get the deals, how do I run my numbers? But it really just boils down to how do I know I'm actually getting into something that's going to help my life versus hurt my life? That's what it really boils down to. So, it's really a lot of that fear, but it might seem 100% apparent to all of us that this is a good deal, especially a professional like this is a good deal. You should go for it. But people definitely get into their heads quite a bit, but they just get into this analysis paralysis and for whatever reason, they don't move forward. And I talk to a lot of people and maybe your listeners can relate to this, where they've been thinking about real estate for years and years or even months and months, and they just haven't yet made that first step. And it's unfortunate to hear that because you and I know, like, once you start the journey, it's fantastic and you can't go back because it is life changing in a positive way and your growth is exponential. For me, first year I did two, then did eight the next year, then twenty. And now I want to do 30. So, it really grows and grows. But you just have to get started. That's the trickiest part.

Joe: Well, why don't you talk, Viktor, about your journey. How did you get started in this business and what helped you kind of break through and start doing deals?

Viktor:  Yeah, for sure. So, I was working at a corporate job several years ago. I went full time about two and a half years ago. I was working a corporate job and realized it wasn't for me. I was like, hey, this isn't for me. I just wasn't making enough. At the end of the month, I'd always be maybe like at the same place I was a month ago financially, or I wasn't making a lot of progress financially. Didn't really enjoy the work either. So, I realized, like, OK, I got to make a change. Something's going to change. This isn't working. Whatever I'm doing is not working. Always had the real estate bug or real estate itch. I was always interested in real estate, to say the least. Started looking into real estate, was connected through a friend of a friend to actually someone we both know, Cris Chico. Cris Chico and I were talking about me signing up for his mentorship. Back then I was broke.

Joe: You didn't, right?

Viktor: What's that?

Joe: You did not sign up for his mentorship, right?

Viktor: I did not sign up, no. I wanted to. I just couldn't afford it.

Joe: OK, I'm just kidding. I give Cris a hard time and Cris is the biggest goofball. I'm just joking, Cris. And I know he listens to every podcast I do.

Viktor:  OK, so there we go. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure it's no problem. But I wanted to sign up for his program. Just couldn't afford it. And what he said “Hey, I actually have a spot open for a cold caller for an acquisitions person”. The person he just got rid of wasn't working out, so he moved on. He's like, “Hey, I got this spot open. So, if you're willing to take it on commission only, we can get started together”. So, I got started that way, kind of cut my teeth, so to speak, on wholesaling, started wholesaling in Gainesville. Found out I love the flipping, actually buying the property, owning it, fixing up, selling it. And that's what I've been doing.

Joe:How many years ago was this?

Viktor: I went full-time about two and a half years ago.

Joe: So how long were you part-timing it?

Viktor:  So I started June, July of 2018. I closed my first deal October of 2018, which is actually a really good piece of advice for a lot of your listeners. So, some people say like, hey, I want to get to real estate. OK, cool, I'm going to get a deal like next week. Just realize it takes time to get up and running. It took me I think four to six months to get going. So just realize it's not an overnight process. You're not going to make one hundred offers in a day and get a deal like that. Takes some time to get out there, learn the stuff, know what to look for and actually get started.

Joe: But you got to do that, too, at the same time, don't you?

Viktor: Yeah, exactly.

Joe: You got to make one hundred offers. If you've got to make a hundred offers to do your first deal, then you got to do it.

Viktor:  So that's what I recommend also is actually knowing the numbers behind this. This is what I see on the flipping side of things, that's probably very similar on the creative finance. So, it's something like, make fifteen offers, get one deal, so make fifteen offers on average and get one deal. So now you know, when you get a no it's like, OK, that's one down. I got fourteen more to go and I'll likely have a deal at that point. So, it makes it easier to get through that rejection, especially for someone making the transformation from W-2, or from a nine to five. They might not be used to that sort of rejection or the sales aspect to it, so just putting that in your head like, hey, I know fourteen times out of fifteen, I'm going to get a no, so just getting started and making offers is huge,

Joe: That's so important. And just tracking, because I've said this a lot of times. Your speed to income is directly proportional to the number of offers that you make. If you want to do a lot of deals, it starts with making offers, and it may be on average, one out of every 15 offers, but you might have to do one hundred offers before you do a couple of three deals. Then it becomes an average of one out of every fifteen, twenty-five offers. Right. But people got to be committed to this for the long haul. When you were getting started, did you have that kind of long-term commitment in your head like, all right, I'm going to stick with this until I make it work.

Viktor:  Luckily, I did. Yeah, luckily, I did. I really enjoyed it and I was learning a ton and just like, hey, I'm going to make this work. This is going to work. I stuck to it and it took a little bit longer than I wanted. But looking back, I'm glad I did it. And just like you said, like once you get your first deal, it solidifies in your mind that entire process, A to Z. So, then it just becomes a repeatable process, like, OK, I want to get X results. I need to do ABC through Z to get the deal and then it becomes real. I know how it is, especially trying to get your first deal where it feels like you're kind of fighting through the fog. It's like it's not clear, like, am I doing the right thing, am I doing the wrong thing? So, I totally get what that feels like. So just realize that's normal and a part of the process as well.

Joe: Mike, Mr. Mike Gun here says some people call it the shut-up check. Did you have naysayers in your life, Viktor?

Viktor: I did, actually. So, I had some family members who didn't think you could get a discounted deal. They always thought, like, why would someone sell below market value. They didn't understand. And now they've obviously turned and they're like, yeah, let's do it. This is great. But back then, they're like, OK, why would someone sell for below market price to you? Why would they sell at such a discount? Because we want 70 cents, 60 cents, 50 cents on the dollar. So, they're always concerned, like, why would someone sell to you? Why wouldn't they just list it? And there's a number of reasons as you and I know like if someone's motivated through divorce, tax delinquency, a probate, a number of these motivation factors, foreclosure. There's a reason. They just want to be done with it. Hey, I don't want to deal with it anymore. Here you go.

Joe: Yeah, OK, so talk about like, did you buy a bunch of courses? Talk about some of your early days in your education. How did you learn about what to do?

Viktor:  A lot of the stuff I learned from Cicco, wholesaling especially. So, I really got started with the cold calling. After that I did buy a ton of courses with courses like Facebook ads.

Joe: And let me ask you though, like you got started with Cicco's. Did you buy his course or not, or just watch his videos?

Viktor: Actually, I did buy his course. Yeah.

Joe: OK, was it his Facebook ads course or was it like a virtual wholesaling course?

Viktor:  It was the Facebook ads one. Yeah. I always thought that was fascinating, by the way as well. Like, OK, you can get deals from Facebook. People are interested in selling their property through Facebook. So that always blew me away. I was always, especially back then, I was just used to the typical MLS model.

Joe: Yeah. OK, cool. So, he taught, it's more than just Facebook ads. It's how to do deals with Facebook ads. That's one of the best main strategies that he likes to teach there. But you were doing cold calling then, right?

Viktor:  We were doing cold calling, yeah. That was something he was experimenting with because at the time he was still doing wholesaling himself. I think he's still doing it, but he was still doing it.

Joe: He sends the deals to some other guys that finish it. But yeah, you're right.

Viktor: Right, right. Yeah. So, we were doing cold calling, yeah.

Joe: All right. Then you started getting deals with Cris or were you also doing some deals on your own?

Viktor:  So what happened, so it was 2018. I was cold calling in Miami and we were just getting zero traction. So, I would call, it's eight a.m. and the seller would say, like, hey, I would say to the seller, hey, are you interested in selling your property, they would say no, you're the fifth person who's calling me today. It's eight a.m. So, they're getting dozens of phone calls per day. So, we were doing Miami for months and months. Eventually, we parted ways compassionately. There's no hard feelings there. Still keep in touch. And I started doing Gainesville, which is a smaller market. So that's why I recommend for people, if you're doing these massive markets, if you're like L.A. or San Diego or New York, I recommend looking at some of these smaller secondary markets, a little more rural, if you will. I've seen that people get a lot more traction. There's less competition, less saturation. Prices get bid up less, sellers are talking to less people. So that's important as well. So, I started doing my own stuff in Gainesville, did two wholesale deals and started flipping.

Joe: That's a huge tip. And I'm writing that down. Huge tip. Small markets.

Viktor:  Yeah, I like the small markets. That's where all my deals are coming from because it's going to be extremely difficult for you to get your foot in the door with competing with these other big guys who are buying cash and they do hundreds of deals per year. That's going to be tough. And they have full time people for it.

Joe: Right. So, what if somebody is listening to this who's a beginner and they're in a big city. They're in Miami or Nashville or Denver or San Diego, L.A., like, what do you recommend they do?

Viktor:  So if you're like in Miami, I mean there's a ton of places in Florida to flip. I mean, there's like Lakeland. I mean, there's Gainesville. Like Ocala. Orlando, there's a ton of these markets.

Joe: Sarasota's a great market.

Viktor:  Sarasota? Spot on. If you're in California, I always recommend they like flip out of the state so you can't necessarily flip like Nevada or Arizona because those are also hot markets, unfortunately. So, I would recommend a flip elsewhere. So, I know, and I have students who live in California they flip in Iowa, live in California, flip in North Carolina, but they just do a totally different state. And it's a lot more accessible as a market as well. Just because California, to get into your first deal, half a million, a million dollars, that's kind of dicey for your first transaction.

Joe: Mr. Mike Gun again, if I can find my cursor. There it is. Has a good question here. Could you start bird dogging, which is kind of what you did. You were working for Cris, kind of being like a bird dog, right?

Viktor:  Yeah, that's pretty much it. I'd get a percentage of whatever I closed. So, my first two deals were wholesales. Got me started. There's nothing wrong with that. First deal made about three thousand, second deal made about three and a half thousand and the money was nice, don't get me wrong. It wasn't a huge check, but it's proof of concept like, yes, there's something here. Yes, there is a need for this. And then I just wanted to get into it further.

Joe: All right, cool. Let's talk about marketing.

Viktor: Yeah.

Joe: You know, if you're new to the business, there's a hundred different things you could be doing. You could be cold calling. You could be texting, you could be sending letters. You could be Driving for Dollars. What do you recommend and teach to new people?

Viktor:  So I recommend just to get started, just to cut your teeth, like you said on your hundred first hundred offers. I recommend, let's start with like free methods, FREE, free methods. Once you really home in on your numbers, get confident negotiating, get confident talking to people, with the entire process, then you can switch over to paid stuff and paid Facebook ads. I'd say cold calling, these are more paid stuff, PPC. But to get started with free stuff, I recommend Facebook marketplace is really good, For Sale By Owner is really good. You can do MLS, but just realize it's going to be tough to find deals on there. So, you can do MLS, Craigslist. You can do Driving for Dollars. That's a much cheaper or free method. These are all free methods. I don't want you getting out there and then like paying, let's say, two hundred bucks per lead, three hundred bucks per lead doing something, direct mail or whatever. And like, you're messing up, you're not confident. You have a potential deal come across your table, but you just don't know what to do with it, so it falls through. So especially when you're spending that kind of money, you really want to be homed in, know what you're doing, know what you're saying. So that's why I recommend like let's start with the free stuff and then we can transition to the paid stuff.

Joe: Yeah, OK, talk about that though. Like Facebook marketplace. What do you mean by find deals on Facebook marketplace? How do you do that?

Viktor:  Yeah. So, if you go to Facebook marketplace, people list their house for sale so you can actually reach out to them via Facebook messenger, hop on a call, see the property in person. I've gotten deals like that. I know people who've gotten deals like that. So, people list their property on Facebook marketplace instead of listing on MLS. For whatever reason, they list on Craigslist.

Joe: So, you contact them and say, hey, is your house still available? Right. You talk to them about their house. Do you recommend with beginners, they just keep it simple with cash offers, traditional wholesaling, or do you help them with learning all the different ways you can make offers, the different ways you can do deals with lease options and owner financing, or subject to, or cash? What do you do there?

Viktor: So how I do, just to keep it as simple as possible, I just keep it simple, like cash. Like here's a price, all cash at closing type of thing. I don't teach a lot of the creative stuff, owner financing, lease option, all of that. There's nothing wrong with that, but for a beginner and what I teach in my personal opinion, I just teach them because there's enough variables in their mind, in the student's mind, because they're going through all this. They're like, OK, what do I need to put into it in terms of repairs? What can I sell it for? OK, what are my financing costs? How do all these costs come together? So, there's enough moving parts. I just try to keep it as simple as possible and say cash offer.

Joe: Good. All right, good. So what marketing are you doing now these days?

Viktor:  So I get about half my deals from wholesalers and then about half I source on my own. That's cold calling. That's SEO. I do a third-party lead sources which really work. It's like need to sell my house fast. So, you pay per lead.

Joe: What do you mean by that? You buy leads from another company that does the online advertising, correct?

Viktor:  Yeah, I've seen some success with that, yes. So that's what's been working for me. Half wholesalers, half on my own. And then with the wholesalers, I try to build a relationship as much as possible. Don't try to beat them up over little dollars, a couple of thousand dollars. I try to work with them as much as possible. I'd rather squeeze an extra deal per year and make an extra twenty, thirty, forty thousand per year, than try to beat them up and lose the deal.

Joe: OK now let's talk about rehab because wholesaling is simpler. Might be the easier way to do your first couple of deals, but what do you recommend to people? Do you recommend they get started into learning how to wholesale or learning how to fix and flip and go for the bigger deals?

Viktor:  Interesting. I actually think flipping is easier than wholesaling. So honestly, I think it's easier than wholesaling for a couple of reasons.

Joe: Wow, yeah, talk about that.

Viktor:  Yeah, for sure. So, flipping is actually easier numbers. So something like I said, one out of 15 offers to get a deal. Let's say one out of 15 offers to make 30K on a typical flip, which is what I'd typically make. Or for wholesaling, one out of 30 offers to make 5K. So, you are making a ton more offers, a lot more effort for a smaller paycheck. So that's a big part of it. Another big part of it is there's a recent wave where there's a ton of wholesalers. And two years ago, when we got started, there was like maybe one wholesaler in my area, maybe two, and now there's 15, 20. So it's really competitive. It's really saturated. And as flippers, we can ride that wave because we can grab deals from wholesalers.

Joe: I would argue, and I may be wrong here, but I would argue it's always been competitive in Sarasota. You just didn't know it. OK, I may be wrong. I mean, I don't know Sarasota as well as you do, but ever since I got started in 2008/9, I've always heard in every market cycle since then, up and down, flat, sideways, people have complained about competition. And even when the hot like when it was easiest to buy properties in 2012, there were people complaining about competition.

Viktor: Really?

Joe: Yeah. I've heard it. I even one time, I'm bringing this up because this is what goes on in a lot of beginners’ heads. I had two coaching students in the same city. I forget which city it was. It might have been Denver, maybe it's Colorado Springs. But one student called this one day and complained about having sellers but no buyers. Plenty of sellers, no buyers. The next day, another guy called from that same market. I was talking to him, he said, man, I got tons of buyers, but no sellers. This doesn't work. They were both complaining it doesn't work. But the problem was, I don't know, they just did something, some kind of limiting mindset belief with them. They were complaining about completely opposite problems. Of course, I put them together and I said, all right, you guys need to talk. One of you has sellers, one of you doesn't. One of you has buyers, the other doesn't. Let's talk and figure out how to partner on deals together. Right. So, like, what are some of these mental roadblocks I think that beginning investors have where they look at competition that's out there and they think it's bad. Maybe it's not.

 Victor:  In the case of wholesaler with flipper, you're not competing with wholesalers, they can bring your deals. So, there's no reason to fight for them and they'll bring you a deal. So, they'll make your life a lot easier like they have mine.

Joe: OK, so you don't have to rely as much on hitting the streets and virtually knocking on doors as it were to get the deals. You get people to bring you the deals.

Viktor:  Yeah. And there's a lot of value in that, especially because typically with marketing, if I'm spending a thousand, two thousand a month and I flip it, then it might take me four months, six months to recoup my investment and then get that net profit paycheck. So, I have to be spending that marketing budget up front. Versus wholesaling, it's a quicker path to a check. So, you might be spending a thousand a month and then you get your first assignment fee of 7K, which is awesome. And then you can continue doing the marketing, but it's a quicker paycheck.

Joe: That's interesting. I've never heard anybody say that rehabbing and fixing and flipping is a faster, better way to do a deal than wholesaling. Most people start with wholesaling, maybe cherry pick the best deals. But what about somebody who would say, listen, there's a lot that you take on in terms of risk and liability when you're rehabbing a house. And it may take instead of one month to get your first check, it might take three to six months to go through the whole process of fixing it and flipping it. Your paycheck is going to be bigger. Talk a little bit more about why you like the fix and flip model better

Viktor:  It's really cool to see the transformation. So, you buy a property that's kind of crummy, beat up and you see the entire transformation where it's suddenly nice and modern. Everyone wants to live there. Before you bought it, nobody wanted to see it, nobody wants to touch it. And then suddenly everyone wants it. So that's always interesting. On the topic of wholesaling versus flipping as well, I've always seen with flipping because you're taking it down yourself, you just have to find a good deal, so you find a good deal. But for wholesaling, you have to find a good deal and then sell and that and then some is your wholesale fee. That's your assignment fee. So, you've earned it. But you have to find a good deal and then some. And you and I know sometimes when you're negotiating with the seller, they have their bottom dollar, like you just can't get them any lower. And it happens quite a lot of times where it's like right on the cusp. Like if I can get them down 5K, it's a deal, but they're not coming down 5K. So, if you're a flipper and you take down the deal yourself, hey, you might not make 30K, you'll make 25K, you'll make a little bit less, but that's still a deal you could do. So that's how I see it as well. You can take those tougher deals.

Joe: Are you doing any wholetailing where you're still taking the property down. But you're just cleaning it a little bit and then sticking it back on the MLS.

Viktor:  Yeah. I've done like full get jobs. I've done wholetailing. I've also heard of it like lipstick on a pig. I've heard that called before, like paint, flooring and then throw it back on the market. So, I've done all of the above.

Joe: What do you prefer now?

Viktor:  I like the quick. I like the wholetailing. Yeah. I like it when it's a decent shape. Just paint, flooring. Maybe throw out some stuff that's always nice.

Joe: All right. So, you're talking to somebody in Des Moines, Iowa right now who wants to get started in real estate. They've listened to some podcasts. They've watched the HGTV shows. What would you tell them to do?

Viktor:  Yeah, so I recommend getting into it, I always thought, like when I was first getting into it, like I'm going to go crazy over the weekend, like I'm going to put in hours and hours cold calling and it's going to happen for me. Then I realized I would build it up so big in my head I actually wouldn't do anything. So, I'd hype it up. Huge energy spike. I would actually hype myself out of it and not do anything. So I recommend people do the opposite. So, it's kind of dip your toe into the water. So, for your first offer, I wouldn't even say like do an offer. So, for your first step as a baby step, just talk to a seller, just talk to them. Like, how long have you owned the property? What's the condition of the property? Not even make an offer, but just get comfortable talking with them. A lot of people get in their head like, what if I don't get along with them? What do I ask? What are some of the things I need to bring up? What are some of the things that need to be discussed? So just getting out there, talking to them, that's the first step. Second baby step is getting out there and making an offer. And I recommend, like for your first offer, make a 50% offer, so whatever they're asking, offer half. So, if they're asking for 100 offer 50. That's again expanding your comfort zone where you'll realize, like most people are nice, you're not going to get yelled at, you're not going to get sworn at, they'll just politely decline, like, hey, that's too little. I can't do that. Sorry. That's the second baby step. But the point is, like you're slowly easing yourself into it just because that's what I've seen really works for people like slowly pushing yourself to do more and more, and then you slowly become comfortable with the last step. So, if you have to do the last step in terms of making an offer, you would realize it's not that big of a deal. But a lot of people have that mental block with a lowball offer, if you want to call it that, where it's like, OK, well, what if something goes wrong and then that stops them from ever moving forward?

Joe: I'm looking here on Redfin in Des Moines, Iowa, and I'm looking for all the properties that have been on the market over 60 days. And I'm going to remove new construction. So, it had to have been built before 2010. And there's 98 homes in this area. So, I'm going to zoom out. Now there's 146. And let's say houses only. Right. There's 64. And let's stay away from the super expensive ones. So, it's going to be under two hundred and fifty bucks. Two hundred fifty thousand dollars. Right. There's twenty-nine homes that have been on the market over 60 days in Des Moines, Iowa and surrounding areas. And I'm going to sort this by price, and these are all homes under, maybe I should share my screen. This might actually help you guys. Because I'm doing this to show you all how you can maybe start getting out of your comfort zone to actually start calling. Maybe not sellers, but realtors. Do you see Redfin right now?

Viktor: I see it now, yeah. Here you are. And Des Moines, home for sale. Yep.

Joe: Let me zoom in a little bit. I got like five monitors here. So, here's a list of homes. I sorted it by price. Here's a beautiful house for seventy-five grand in Newton. Newton is not here. Maybe somewhere. I don't know where Newton is. Let's go to view details of this property. And there's a reason why this house hasn't sold yet. It needs updating and only an investor would find this house attractive. Right. So, this house has been on the market, though, for sixty days. Great potential for investment property, selling as is. Probably hasn't sold yet because they're asking too much for it. Even if a rehab were to go in here and fix it up, make it look nice there, there's not much money in there for it. So, here's Karen's phone number, Karen Clevenger from Iowa Realty Newton. You called her up. What would your conversation be like with Karen?

Viktor: So if it was the…

Joe: You're training a new investor, you've got to make offers. Let's go look for some older properties here that need updating and call them. What would you say?

Viktor:  So if this is the first phone call, the first piece of homework, I recommend just talking to them like, OK, how long has it been on the market? Have you gotten any offers? What's the condition of the place or what needs to be done to fix it? Just how long have the owners owned it? So, stuff like that, just to build rapport and just to get to know them and get to know the property.

Joe: Good. All right. So, what else then?

Viktor:  Yeah. How I typically do it, let's say it's past the homework stage. You made the lowball offer, you've made the initial conversation. I always teach my folks to do it in like a two-step process, like a one two punch process. So, the first phone call, the first interaction, you're just getting to know them, getting to know the property, so you're just building rapport and asking those questions. How long have you owned it? How much are you looking to get out of it? Those sorts of rapport building questions. For the second conversation and a second interaction, best in person. You can do it over the phone, that's fine as well. That's when you're actually presenting the offer. So that's when you're actually presenting the offer. A little bit more about me. I'm a cash buyer. I'll pay for your closing costs. There's no realtor so there's no realtor commissions. I'll buy it as is, so there's no repairs, no cleaning. Based on the neighborhood, the property, the area. I'd be looking to pay X. And then you shut up and let them talk.

Joe: You know, one of the things that I was doing as you were talking, I was looking here. This is the property in Newton, Iowa. One of the things I like about Redfin is that you can pull up sold comps. And what I like to do when I'm talking to realtors is, to find out seventy-five grand, is that like the lowest they would go? Are they negotiable on their price? And I like to ask them about the sold comps, the sold and the active comps in the neighborhood. And one of the things that you can do with Redfin, if you all can see my screen here. By the way, if you're listening to this on an audio podcast, if you just go to my YouTube channel, Joe McCall, you can see this there. All right. But if you open this map up to full screen view, you see that right down here. There's a thing called map nearby homes for sale. When you click on that, it's going to put that property right in the center of the map and it's going to show you similar homes that are currently listed for sale in the neighborhood. Right now, there's only three. But I'm going to zoom out to get a few more. Now there's 14. I'm going to sort this table by price and some of these. So let me then do property type houses only here. And one of the things I like to talk to realtors about as I'm looking through this is here's a house that's currently listed for sixty-nine thousand seven hundred that doesn't need any work. It's a one bedroom. So, this property doesn't need any work. I know it's a one bedroom, but it's bigger than four hundred and eighty square feet just looking at this. But why would I want to pay seventy-five for your property that looks like it needs a lot of updating when I can buy this house down the street that's cheaper, that doesn't need as much work. And I bet you both of these properties will probably rent for about the same, just looking at it. Right. But the other cool thing is you can go right here to more filters and turn for sale off and sold on in the last six months. OK, and you can also filter by the size here, let's say max size, fifteen hundred square feet. So, there's 50 homes here. I can sort this table by price. And if it's too many, you can zoom in because that house is still right in the middle of that map. Right. And when you're talking, I'm bringing this up because these are things you can have conversations with these realtors about. Just asking questions. Can you explain to me what the neighborhood is like? Like if I fix this house up, what do you think it would take? What do you think the house will be worth after it's fixed up? And ask them. I see here there's a property that's sold on Second Avenue, probably about five, six blocks away for fifty-seven thousand five hundred. And they're asking, remember, where did it go here? They're asking seventy-four nine. But this is a house that's sold. It actually looks like it needs updating, but it's almost in as good a shape, if not better. I don't know. But ask the realtor, I'm seeing houses that sold here for fifty thousand, fifty-seven thousand, sixty-seven thousand in that same area. Do you think that the seventy-five that the seller is asking for is a fair price? Right. Are you all picking up what I'm laying down here?

Viktor:  That's spot on. And what I really like is when you get the realtor on your side, like, hey, I know it's overpriced. I'm so sorry. This is what the seller wanted. So, when you get them on the price, just by bringing up these comps and bringing up the for sale, I think that's brilliant. They'll they might even admit to you, like they would be willing to take a lot less. They're motivated. So just going through this process is valuable, shows you know what you're doing.

Joe: And it takes just a minute, like you can pull this up while you have them on the phone. Like there's a beautiful house that sold for seventy grand. What is this, six months ago, sold for seventy. It's a little smaller, but it needs zero work. Right. So, here's the cool thing too when you're talking to realtors. I'm saying this because when you're calling realtors, just talk to them and say, hey, listen, you can even be honest. I'm a new investor and it's, do you know Jerry Norton? I saw him doing this. I love Jerry Norton. I saw him doing this on one of his YouTube videos recently. And I thought, that's such a great idea and I'm going to do it, too. And he just texted me back a second ago as I was talking about what he does on his YouTube videos. So, Jerry Norton, if you're watching this and you're probably not, this is so cool to actually see people do this because it helps a beginner, like, overcome their fear, like, oh, really? That's not that big of a deal. I can do that. Right. But look at these properties and just tell the realtor, listen, I'll let you represent me so you can get both sides of the commissions. Right. Let the realtor represent you as a buyer's agent. That helps him get more on your team and then they're going to be more open maybe with telling you, yeah, you know what? They might be open to that. They might be negotiable. Why don't you go ahead and make an offer? Then you can ask the realtor, because especially if you're new. Listen, I'm new, I don't know how to write contracts. Can you just write one for me and represent me, right? Anyway. Well, you can get these properties up on Redfin and Zillow and say, listen, I see some comps here for fifty-seven seventy. Do you think that this price that they're asking for seventy-four nine hundred is fair? Anyway. You want to add anything to that?

Viktor:  I think you did fantastic. I just want to add to it, I think a lot of people get in their head where they have to be an expert. They have to come across as very smart, they have to come across as knowledgeable. So, I love how you could just cut through all that nonsense. You just said, hey, I'm a beginner real estate investor.

Joe: I'm going to take a lot of the pressure off.

Viktor:  Exactly. Because then it's something like, oh, OK, they're willing to help you. And that's how I got started to like I don't know what I'm doing. Like what should I do here?

Joe: But I work with somebody who does. Right, like I have a coach, or I have a mentor or friend who does do a lot of investing and rehabbing. And we're looking for some deals. We're looking for some deals. And I was wondering if I could ask you some questions about this house on Fourth Avenue in Newton, Iowa. And then you're not pretending to know more than you actually know.

Viktor:  Spot on. I love that. That's fantastic. Because just like you said, it takes the edge off. So, it's no longer pressure, like, hey, you have to look good or, hey, if I make a mistake or if I say something dumb, they'll know. They know you're a beginner and that's OK. There's nothing wrong with that.

Joe: The other reason why I like these properties, by the way, guys, and I'm to do more YouTube videos about this. Jerry Norton, I'm coming after you. I hope you're watching and listening, but I know you're not. I like going after these properties that have been on the market over 60 days because these sellers might be open to creative financing. You can ask the realtor, listen, if I could get them their price for seventy-five grand. First of all, like, why do you think it hasn't sold yet? Looks like a nice neighborhood, you know, why aren't there any interior photos on Redfin? Why do you think it hasn't sold yet? What's going on? Is there something wrong with the property? Is something wrong with the neighborhood? So, like you're just asking these questions, but then say, well, you know, I don't know if this is working out, but if I could get them their price for seventy-five grand, do you think they would consider something like seller financing or lease purchase or probably not, right? You're getting me all excited looking at these properties here. I want to make some offers.

Viktor:  Well, especially because you have, what do you have? Twenty-nine there? Twenty-five there? There's got to be a deal in there.

Joe: Yeah, and these are properties that have been on the market over sixty days. And Des Moines is a hot market. It may not be as hot as Miami or whatever, but these are great little rental properties. I really doubt this is a 580 square foot house. Maybe it is, but doesn't it look bigger than a 580 square foot house.

Viktor: Yeah, I don't know. A couple of them seem to have been mislabeled.

Joe: Maybe that's what they are showing up. Maybe they really are. Maybe it's a mobile home park. I don't know.

Viktor:  It looks like a house.

Joe: But that thing could rent for eight hundred bucks a month and you could wholesale that to a landlord all day long. All right. So anyway, what are some of the other challenges? Let's talk about this. What are some of the other challenges that beginning investors face and how do we help them get them get over their fears? Does that make sense?

Viktor:  It does make a lot of sense, yeah. I'd recommend just have clear goals. That's another thing people don't necessarily have. It's like, OK, I want to get into real estate, like, OK, what does that look like? Like what's a good scoreboard for achieving that? Is that like one deal in your first year? If so, how much are you looking to profit from that deal? What are you looking to eventually get as the cash flow goal? Is like a number of flips? Is it an amount in the bank account? Just clearly defining where you are and where you're going. Just so like that's how GPS works, by the way. So, you know where you are, you know where you're going, and now the path is plotted forward. But if you don't know those two end points, it's kind of tough. Like if you told your GPS, hey, I want to go to Miami, like, OK, well, where are you now? I don't know. Or vice versa. So that's why I recommend just having clear cut goals. Writing them down is also super valuable instead of keeping it in your head. It's very easy to change your goal. Let's say you don't hit a goal. You might say stuff like, oh, I didn't really mean that, or I'll just do it next year. But if you write it down as concrete, it's real, it's achievable. It's something to work towards. I think the other thing is just pacing yourself. I've talked to people who the first year say, I want to do ten deals, or I want to do twenty deals. I want to build a real estate empire my first year. There's nothing wrong with that. I'd recommend pacing yourself. I just do one or two deals in 2021 and that's going to be a huge life change that's going to set you up very nicely for future years. What's really cool about real estate? It's a lifelong skill. So, it's not just what am I going to do this year? What am I going to do next year? Like these skills, everything we're talking about, it applies to ten years in the future of twenty years in the future, fifty years in the future. Real estate is here to stay. I don't see any data where people don't want to live in houses anymore. I haven't seen that.

Joe: The population of the US is growing as well. OK, so like you're talking about rehabbing a house and I can see how a beginning investor is going to be thinking, oh my gosh, that sounds like a lot of work. It sounds like I'm going to need some help doing that. How do you help somebody who's new find somebody that can help them rehab properties?

Viktor: For the contractor side of things?

Joe: Well, managing the whole process from buying it, taking it down, managing the rehab, the contractors, the selling it and things like that.

Viktor:  Yeah. So, let's talk about the renovation process. Just realize when you're getting into it, there's like three main models to run the renovation. There's DIY, which is like do it yourself, like you're doing the painting, you're doing the flooring.

Joe: Oh, never do that, please. OK. Yeah.

Viktor:  So then there's done with you, which is like you hire a painter. Pay the painter. You hire a flooring guy. Pay the flooring guy. But you're more that manager, the more the project manager. That's the second model. Third model is done for you. So that's like you hire a general contractor, they take care of A to Z. So, before you get into the renovation, you should know which model are you going to use? Because that's going to kind of change your approach. And there's nothing wrong with either model. You're just giving up one thing. You're trading off time or training off money. So, if you do it yourself, it's going to cost you time to save money. If you hire it out fully, it's going to cost you money, save you time. So, it is realizing like the three models and how you're going to go about it affects who are going to choose what you're going to do.

Joe: Good. All right. So, somebody is looking at a house and they start making phone calls, they start looking, they start calling realtors, they start calling sellers to get more comfortable with just asking questions about the house. Now they want to make an offer. How do you teach beginners to make offers?

Viktor:  Yeah, I always recommend 70% rule and depending on the market, it might go up to 75% rule. So, it's 70% ARV minus repairs is your max offer. So, I recommend starting a little bit lower than that. If the place is in really good shape, you can get close to that number to your max offer. If the place is a wreck, you can always start a much lower just to test the waters, see where they're at. A part of negotiation, a part of throwing out an offer, you can always go up so you can always back pedal like, hey, I just want to get the conversation going. I can definitely come up on that price if needed, if it goes south. Starting low and working your way up is what I recommend. So, for your first offer, I always recommend a nice even number, like, OK, for this place I'm willing to pay 50,000. You'll go back and forth, they'll say a counter, you'll go for the next offer. I always recommend like a number ending in five hundred. So, hey I can't pay 50,000, what about 55,500? And then they'll go back and forth, they'll discuss the property. It needs a lot of work, it's not the best neighborhood. Then for the final, your highest price, I always like to end it like a seven or like end in a very specific number. So hey, I can't do 55,500. What about 57,357? And then in their mind they're thinking, well I've squeezed every single dollar, it's down to the dollar with this person. So, I probably can't get any more, so I might as well accept that price. So that's why I recommend in terms of like a mechanical tactical, because going through those volleys and realizing like it is going to be a process, I always liken it to something like tennis, where they go, you go, they go, you go. You never want to offer again upon yourself like you made an offer. And then you make an offer. You make an offer. You want them to counter and to go back and forth.

Joe: All right. Mr. Mike Gun again. He's very active today on YouTube. Realtor wants a proof of funds. What do you do?

Viktor:  Yeah, good question. So, this is why I traditionally focus on, like, the off-market deals. So, with the twenty flip side of last year, only one was MLS, only one was on market. Very, very seldom do off market deals ask for proof of funds. If needed, this is a part of like what I teach, so it's always good, especially when you're getting started to like grab a money partner, someone who puts in the funds. You find the deal, you run the deal, you sell a deal and you guys split the profit. So, you get a proof of funds from the money partner. You can also get a proof of funds from your hard money lender. So, you get prequalified from them. They can send you a letter like, hey, this person is prequalified for this amount, for this property. You can send that as a proof of funds. And I've had success with that.

Joe: Great point. Let me show you my screen again, guys. What I recommend doing. I hope you don't mind me teaching a little bit, Viktor, this is supposed to be an interview.

Viktor: We're here to help beginners. That's what we're doing here.

Joe: Because if people see this, if you're a beginner and you see this like, oh, it's not that hard, right? Like this is a house in Woodward, Iowa. Where is that? I don't know. It's somewhere in Iowa. Right. Let me zoom out here. It's in a suburb of north east, north west Des Moines. It's a great little area. In fact, I used to go to Madrid when I lived in Des Moines. All right. So, there's Woodward, right. But you've never done a deal there before. You live in Miami and you're like, oh, I want to do deals in Iowa. And I talked to the realtor. The realtor said the seller might accept something around 60, which, by the way, you may think that's crazy, unheard of, but it happens all the time. So, the realtor says, yeah, you know, they might take sixty. They're just sick of it. They're done with it. They want to be rid of it. Maybe it's a bank or a foreclosure. And they're just saying, yeah, just take the next offer that comes. We just got to get it off our books. Well, one of the things I recommend going to the Facebooks, and there's a lot of really good Facebook groups on here that are for investors, for wholesalers. One of my favorites is Wholesaling Houses Full Time. Maybe they kicked me out of the group. There it is. A hundred and twenty thousand members. I'm still in it. All right. And there's a search bar right here. There's a search button. And just do a search for Des Moines. The search for Iowa. And here is somebody. Well, that's four years ago. You can sort this by here you go, most recent. Somebody is saying, all right, here's somebody from 20 hours ago, Sean asks “Any cash buyers in Des Moines, Iowa? I'm looking for a hard money lender in the tri cities Tennessee area”. I won't spend much time. Maybe there's a Des Moines and Tennessee. But here's what I'm saying is you can go through here and find people. Here's somebody, Hudson, back in December, any buyers in Des Moines? I got a good deal under contract. Somebody commented. All right. But you know what? This guy Hudson here looks like he might be an active wholesaler. Contact him, reach out to him. And you can also go to sites like Bigger Pockets. Find investors that are already doing deals in Iowa. And like if you go to the search thing here, the search for Des Moines, you're going to find members. If you click on members here who are investors in Iowa, look for the ones that are active on here, like this guy is, Darsen. He's got a bunch of posts, a bunch of folks contact him and say, hey, I think I might have a deal. And I want to know if you want to partner with me on it. Chad Daniel, right? And you can also go here to forums and find people that are talking about Des Moines in the forums. This guy is looking for contacts and there's been seven replies. And you can contact them. Here's a real estate agent, Keller Williams. This guy, Darson. Here you go. He's an active agent, but he's an investor-friendly agent. So, yeah, contact these guys, they're everywhere. They're easy to find. Facebook groups and Bigger Pockets are just two places you can go to. You can also go to find deals, find the wholesalers that are advertising properties on Bigger Pockets. I don't get anything for promoting Bigger Pockets. A lot of these are investors that are advertising properties. There's four of them here. And I don't know if you can expand outside, but contact these people, pretend like you're interested in buying their house. Here's that dude again. There he is, Chad Daniel, right. Reach out to him and find out if he can help you on this deal and tell him you're new.

Viktor: I want to add to that. So also, like local like real estate meet ups, typically they have a Facebook group for if you found something specific for Des Moines. Real estate meet ups. REIAs, there's a ton of those. There's probably Iowa real estate investors. Here's another pro tip for your audience here, Joe. I always teach the leapfrog method. So, it's always like, who else do you know who could help me out with this? And that can be for contractors. That can be for money. That can be for finding deals, too. So, if you talk to a wholesaler, they don't necessarily have a deal for you. You might say, well, who else do you know who's wholesaling in your area, and you just build your network that way.

Joe: There's a lot of Facebook groups as well for things like Iowa real estate or Iowa investment. Let me go to groups.

Viktor:  That's a hell of a start. That's something you can do today, by the way. You can do a quick Google search, quick search on Facebook, get into the group, start reaching out, talking to people literally today.

Joe: All right, cool. So, I wanted to share because I know that if people kind of see how easy it is and it's not intimidating, that's going to help a lot. When you've got somebody in your corner that can partner with you on the deal, they can take care of the proof of funds. They can take care of the actual money to buy the property. They don't have the cash themselves. They know the hard money lender that does. They know the good contractors. They know the good property managers. They know the good title companies. They know the right contracts to use the paperwork to use. So, yeah, this is something I love talking about because this helps a lot of newbie investors get some help, especially if they can't maybe afford a coach right away or the maybe the coach they have can't help them. I don't know. Anyway, cool Viktor, any final words of advice you want to give to people that are listening to this?

Viktor: I just want to challenge people to go ahead and take one little baby step today. So, I know we've talked, we've gone into an example, we've looked at properties and what to say, who to talk to, when to say it. I think I would really want to challenge the folks, listen, take that one little baby step, make one connection, have one conversation just to get started. That compounds, you do one of those connections per day, in a year you'll have 365 connections. I'd be surprised if you can't do a deal or if you do one offer a day and you get to 365 by the end of the year, I would be surprised if you didn't have a deal.

Joe: Yeah, very good. All right. So, Viktor, how can people reach you if they want to talk to you?

Viktor:  Yeah, for sure. So, I mentor folks how to get started flipping, how to get your first deal, how to get to six figures. The best place to reach me is on Facebook. If you look at my name, Viktor Jiracek, you can reach out to me there. I also have a free Facebook group if folks want to join there, Six Figure House Flippers, just to get started. It's free. Tons and tons of free tips. Free advice on how to get started, how to run your numbers for rehab, how to think about rehab, how to buy houses, how to negotiate, all that good stuff. Everything you could think of, everything that I use. And my business is there. It's free.

Joe: So, Viktor, I'm writing this into the banner, the Facebook group. I'm sorry, your Facebook profile's Viktor Jiracek. Yeah, that's how you spell it, JIRACEK? And then your Facebook group is what, again?

Viktor: So it's Six Figure House Flippers.

Joe: Six Figure House Flippers. Boom. There it is on the banner. Six Figure House Flippers. Right. That's how people can reach you. Yeah, awesome. Cool, Viktor. Hey, thanks for being on the show. Appreciate it. And are you ready for my Czech word for goodbye?

Viktor: Oh yeah. What's the word?

Joe: OK, nobody listen, close your ears because I'm going to butcher it. Na shledanou. How's that? It's two words. Na shledanou. You don't even know it? They speak a different language in Slovakia than they do in the Czech Republic.

Viktor: That's what it is, yeah.

Joe: How do you say goodbye in Czech?

Viktor: You say čau. That's until later. Until next time.

Joe: I thought you knew Czech.

Viktor: Maybe na sdravia?

Joe: I've heard of that. Na shledanou.

Viktor: OK, that's, yeah, it's like till next time. Yeah.

Joe: Did I kind of get it right?

Viktor:  I'd say you know like one and a half words. Like dobry den, you've nailed that one. Na shledanou? Maybe it's a good Czech word.

Joe: I haven't been there in a long time. It's embarrassing. Cool. Viktor, thank you.

Viktor: Thanks for having me.

Joe: All right. We'll see you all later. Thank you everybody. And go check out Viktor's Facebook group. It's called Six Figure Flippers. And we'll see you guys later. Take care, everybody. Bye.