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Ronnie Baras works consistently on his real estate business, but with the pandemic affecting his main comic hypnotist hustle, he needs to scale it up. He’s currently closing 0-1 deals a month, but he’s aiming for 4-5 deals a month. He’s got the know-how, and he’s consistent. But watch Gavin break down his system to find exactly what he needs to improve.

Ronnie’s relying on text messages to sort through potential sellers, but he’s only sending 10-20 text messages a week. This yields 2-3 sellers a week who are interested in talking to him, and that’s just not enough volume to reach his goals.

We often encourage our students to start with a text messaging as a way to warm up a seller. However, when Ronnie hears a “No” on the phone, he thinks it’s a hard “No”. Gavin gives him some pointers on how to talk around a no response so that a seller welcomes a follow-up phone call.

We teach our students about virtual wholesaling, but it’s not always the answer to every problem. See why Gavin wants Ronnie to really solidify his system in his local market before he builds out to a virtual team. If you’re ready for Gavin to work his magic on your real estate system, let’s connect and see if we’d be a good fit for you.

Watch and Learn:

Listen and learn:

What’s inside:

  • Even though Ronnie is excited about expanding into a virtual market, hear why Gavin advises him to wait.
  • Reluctant sellers are Ronnie’s kryptonite, but Gavin has never heard a “No” that he didn’t think he could change.
  • Is texting actually better than a phone call? That depends, says Gavin.
  • Gavin’s not a bulk direct mail guy, but he thinks that looking for rentals might be a time to dip into that kind of marketing.

Mentioned in this episode:


Download episode transcript in PDF format here…

Gavin: Hey, guys, how are you doing? Gavin Timms with REI Network. We're back with another episode just before I introduce my guest, if you haven't already. Make sure you go and follow me on social media, on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Also, if you've not got your five thousand free record yet, go to batchleads.io/Gavin and make sure you get your five thousand free records. OK, so now I'm going to introduce to something a little different. Did a coaching call a few weeks ago, and I did another kind of post that if you followed me on social media, I was going to pick someone for a free strategy session. And here I have Ronnie. Ronnie, how are you doing?

Ronnie: Good. How are you?

Gavin: Good. Good. I appreciate you. Allow me to record this obviously live. This is going to kind of me doing a strategy session, kind of like if we've never met or spoken, I'm going to be asking you questions, digging into what's going on and see what we can put in place and what you need to do for your next steps. OK, so I appreciate you follow me on social media to get here and yeah, I'm excited. So any questions that we have along the way, feel free to ask. Completely open. So let's get right into it, Ronnie. So tell me or tell us and we'll listen and tell us a little bit about you. What's going on? What are you what do you do? What have you done? And let's start with that.

Ronnie: Sure. OK, I am a comic hypnotist is one of the main things that I have been doing until the pandemic hit, traveling the country doing comedy hypnotism shows. And I do them now virtually every now and then. I love doing it. I also love real estate. I am a real estate broker. I have actually done a couple of resorption deals, not nearly enough. And what I really want to do is do a lot of them. When I say a lot, I mean at a minimum for a month. But if I could double that, that would be great because hit me pretty hard. And I not only do I love real estate, but I kind of have to have it work for me.

Gavin: OK, so you want to do four deals a month, right?

Ronnie: Yes.

Gavin: And how many deals would you say you're doing right now?

Ronnie: Zero to one a month?

Gavin: OK, and what about other transactions? Obviously, you've got a brokerage doing a lot of traditional stuff as well or not?

Ronnie: Not a lot of traditional stuff. I'm willing to do more of that as well. I enjoy that.

Gavin: So how are you currently finding so you've done some of these option deals, but it's not consistent, right? How many hours a week you spend it on the business trying to do them a couple of hours?

Ronnie: I have more time to spend that I'm willing to do.

Gavin: OK, so we're doing about two hours a week.

Ronnie: I think that's fair. Yeah, two to three hours.

Gavin: OK, two, three hours a week. We're doing well. How many would you say deals? Obviously, one to zero a month. Would you say how many lease option deals have you done or how many deals, wholesale or lease options have you done? Just roughly last year, last year?

Ronnie: I did maybe three lease options, OK? I haven't done a wholesale deal in a couple of years.

Gavin:  OK, so lease options seems to be kind of where you want to go. Is that kind of what the main strategy like that is? Correct. I know you wanted to hold like stay in the middle of this or a sign or either.

Ronnie: So I think my first view, just to improve my cash situation, I'd like to sign them wholesale lease options and then I would love to do sandwich lease options.

Gavin: OK, so your main income was your comedy, what did you call it. Comedy hypnotism shows. OK, I'm not too familiar with it. I'll have to check that out. That's interesting.

Ronnie: I can tell you.

Gavin: Yeah. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that.

Ronnie: If we were at a convention, you and I at a small thing that you ran or I would if I were doing a show, I would have somebody hypnotized. That takes me about four minutes and I would have them think they're you. And they would take on your accent, your mannerisms, and start teaching whatever they might. Now probably be pretty funny. So it's for comedy. And I do therapy as well a little bit. Get people to stop smoking.

Gavin: That's crazy. I'm not interested. I would definitely want to check that out. And if you have like a channel or like how do people, if they want to, they're interested in looking at like I know this is random and completely also just interesting.

Ronnie: Google me at just Google Ronnie Baras. I have a couple of skits on YouTube. Got it. Got it.

Gavin: OK, that's awesome. Anyway, that's what we were saying. Sorry. So right now you're doing that you're spending you want to be doing for the offers right now you're doing zero to one. You're only working two or three hours a week. You did about three. Options last year, how many sellers would you say, talking to a week?

Ronnie: I would say probably about 10 to 20.

Gavin: OK, are these 10 to 20 sellers are interested in doing it like a rent to own, or are they just you reaching out cold, reaching out cold outside their classes then is the text message or is actually a phone call?

Ronnie: It has been mostly text messages.

Gavin: OK, so this is really important and everyone listening just to identify this. Right. So why pick this apart is because obviously talking to sellers and you said 10 to 20. So then I had to go deeper to say, well, are we actually having conversations or we reaching out to try and create a lead? Right. Because they're completely different thing. OK, so I'm actually going to say you're I'm actually going to change that and say you're reaching out OK by text 10 to 20 a week, right? That's correct. And you're talking to how many of them?

Ronnie: Of those, 10 to 20. I'm only talking to maybe two or three.

Gavin: And how many offers are you making on them two or three?

Ronnie: I make pretty much one offer, and that is to do a rent to own. I don't even get that far beyond what kind of rent to own or whatever. I'm usually shut down.

Gavin: OK, and then what about lastly and I'm guessing maybe you're not doing it, follow up on the offers.

Ronnie: I am not.

Gavin: All right. OK, so this one then, just so we're going to talk about moving forward here in a minute. But again, I like to see where everyone's at and just talk about this first, because it's important to understand, to be honest with where you're at, to say, well, why am I not being consistent? Right. Be different. If you were saying, well, I'm doing 10 to 20 phone calls a month, I'm making 15 to 20 offers, I'm doing all my follow up. And I'm not doing deals. Right, because that's where we need to get to. So just as a quick summary, we're only doing two, three hours a week, OK? You're doing about 10 to 20 text messages that you have in two or three conversations making one follow, one offer and you doing no follow up. OK, and that's kind of what's inconsistent now for this business to work. We've obviously got to do way more volume than that. Right. So you can't say that the market doesn't work on that volume being loved. There's two things that needs to happen, right? You're obviously doing your thing with work and obviously that's what you enjoy doing, which is completely fine. So there's multiple ways to set this business up that you need to obviously change. Number one is that we need more hours going into the business, write more hours. We're going to get them numbers up. We've got to get the rich out of text messages or market in, let's just say, needs to be OK, which then will give us the ability to have more conversations, which will give us the ability to make more offers, which will give us the ability to follow up on them offers. Makes sense?

Ronnie: It makes sense.

Gavin: All the people we spoke to, regardless of the offer. Right. You should be following up with them if they were interested at some point. Now, the question is, is that when we need to talk about. Well, yeah, that that makes complete sense. And, you know, you don't need me to maybe tell you that because that might. And everyone listening. Well, yeah, and that's the obvious. So the next thing we need to talk about is why is it only two to three hours? Right. You need to decide. The only way that this is going to work, as we just said, is to get them hours or 20 hours, at least 20 hours a week. Right. So that needs to be done by you or somebody else. OK, OK, so you have options to either redo your schedule and put more time into the business and stay disciplined to it and commit to it all. You've got to bring all the people in, maybe a partner, maybe an acquisition, or however you want to structure that to get them hours off. Right. Because I know that you need to be doing more to get the app in real estate. And we haven't even really gone into your market yet because with these numbers, it doesn't matter what market you're in. It could be in Manhattan, Massachusetts. It could be in Alabama, Ohio. It doesn't matter. The volume isn't enough to get be consistent right now.

Gavin: Of course, you could drop a deal which you did, which makes sense. You did three deals last year, which makes sense because if you do this consistently, even though it's low, it will get traction at some point, but not nowhere near to be getting four deals. Right. And so me mean these options depend on how everyone's doing it, if you will do if you want to actually complete four deals in lease options, especially if you're doing assignments where you're not controlling the property, you're having basically non-exclusive agreement signed. Right, until you find the tenant, which means for anyone listening that the seller can still sell the property, rent the property themselves and. Until you actually bring them and enforce the contracts, right? So for that alone, you should be trying to get six contracts to close for. Right. Six or seven to close four contracts. So based on that method of contract, because you're not controlling the property like you would in a wholesale, for instance. Makes sense. Yes. Anything that's not clear so far?

Ronnie: No, it's very clear. What's interesting to me is I know this. As I was answering your questions, I felt, oh, my gosh, I know what the answer should be. It just really hit me as you asked them.

Gavin: And that's great. That's a great point, because I was just about to come on to that because as I just said, this is people listening, saying this is common sense. But sometimes when you're in it and you're all around you and happening, you can't think and you can't see it. You have to kind of come out of and look at high level on top. And that's kind of what I can do because I'm not emotionally attached in with your day to day. So I just look at the numbers and the structure to say this isn't going to work. And here's why. When I relate it back to you, that's when you're going to be going. You could have answered everything. Agreed, right? You just said it hit me because now it's triggered to say, OK, now I see. I get it. It's more clear and now I can make change. Make sense. So that's the first thing. OK, very simple on what you need to do. We've not even talked about a market. We've not talked about anything. We're just talking about the input into the business. What you put in is what you get out. Now, I'm not saying that you need to be the one doing it right. Obviously, I have a do a lot with systems partner, a lot of things. I'm very big on that because I understand that if I'm not doing it, someone else needs to be doing it.

Gavin: And that comes at a price. OK, so you need to really think about it. And I'm asking this decision right now because you've got to really dig deep and think what you're trying to do, but always have your back in mind that if you're not going to do it, someone else has got to be. She will be sitting and having the same conversation in one year, five years. Ten years. Right. If we don't make the change. So we understand the problem now. We understand that there's two or three ways that you can go. One is you dedicate more time to get the numbers right and then you become coachable. And what I mean by that is, is that we haven't even got to. Well, why is that one offer? There's no point talking to we're having two conversations where you're making one offer and then two conversations are getting shut down immediately. Right. Because the volume is not there to be coachable.

Gavin: So straight away, I'm thinking, well, I got you've got to get your volume up to then say, well, could you be asking the questions? Could you be positioning better? Is it the office that you're making? Well, we need to be doing more volume to identify than problems. It would have been a different conversation if your numbers would have been because some would go, well, what are you saying to them? Why are they being shut down? Your volumes, volumes? Not that say, well, maybe it's a numbers game. Why not? It makes sense. OK, so good. So we need to we need to do that. Just real quick on the just for everyone listening for you, Ronnie, as well. We know what you need to understand as well. When someone shut something down, they all probably react in the sellers reacting because they don't understand what you're doing. So the answer's no. Right? If you don't understand something, if I call them and try and sell you something and you don't understand it, you're just going to say, no, I'm not interested. It's not that you're not interested. It's the fact that you don't know what I'm talking about. So it's just no, I don't get it now.

Gavin: Makes sense? So you have to watch for that on the positioning of talking to the sellers when you're leading in with that? I remember not every day or almost every deal is not going to be one conversation done on a lease option because. No, you're giving something. I know you're texting probably Zillow leads, you're texting Zillow leads that are trying to rent or trying to or trying to sell the home. They've not thought about doing anything different. And if it's just landed on Zillow and it's pretty new, then of course it's going to be a no. But you're positioning yourself late for a follow up and that's why it ties in. And that's the other big thing that I want to touch on here is the follow up, because these conversations, yes, it's about making offers, but also prepping them, especially on the lease up front for the follow. So, for instance, if I get on and say, hey, Ronnie, you said you might be interested in renting, let's say sell by owner maybe. Yes, we start to engage. We'll know what's going on. Why do you want to sell fundable, build rapport, find out about the situation? Well, look, I might be interested in doing renting now. I just want to sell it. Right. I get now I just want to sell it. OK, no problem. Right. Just before we go, let me ask you one question. What are you going to do if this doesn't sell? And I'm hoping you say, well, I'm probably going to have to rent it. Right.

Gavin: That's what I'm looking for a. That makes sense, right? What if then, how long have you got? How are you going to give this to sell? How many months or weeks are you going to give it? Well, I got to move it if he doesn't run it by the end of the month. So by the end of the month, or at least on the contract, that I'm going to have to rent it. OK, so what if we do this? I'm running. I'm interested in renting it, OK, with the option to buy. And I know that's not going to work for you right now, but let's say we talk again in a few weeks and you're in the same position. Would you be interested or might consider it more then? Yeah. And then you say, yeah, I probably would. And then and then I'd start to close off. Right. And be like, OK, great. Well, hopefully it seems like a great house. I'm sure it's going to sell. So stay positive with that. But I'm going to give you a call in a few weeks and I'll be happy to work with you on it if it doesn't sell just as a backup. And how does that sound? I'll get your go. Yeah, I know that sounds great. Get that commitment. Now, I've got someone who's a very strong follow up based on this thing not selling. So if it doesn't sell now, I'm in position to get that lease option. Does that make sense? It makes sense. It sounds pretty good.

Gavin: Yeah, I know it sounds when I say sounds easier said than done. So I don't I don't want anyone saying, well, yeah, that sounds easier based on that situation. But that's what you're dealing with. If you just position because everyone else just said, no, I don't want to do it. OK, thanks. Bye. You've left with nothing. You've just wasted your time because we already knew it was a no, because they're trying to sell it or they're trying to rent it. So we already know it's not going in, which is OK. But it's what if it doesn't rent? What if it doesn't sell? How long are you going to give it? These questions are the ones that are going to prep you for the follow up to get the contracts down the line. If you do enough of it, you will then consistently close from follow up by positioning on the first phone call down the line.

Ronnie: Very good. It makes sense. Yes.

Gavin: OK, so just want to throw that in that right now then we know the volume is going to be OK regarding the market. So let's talk about your market real quick. So you have a brokerage, right. And where are you located?

Ronnie: I'm in Silver Spring, Maryland.

Gavin: OK, so you're in Maryland. All right. Medium home prices?

Ronnie: I would say around four hundred thousand. OK, right.

Gavin: So four hundred thousand obviously is a higher price point. OK, now, anyone watching? I'm not saying that you should be diving and leaving your market because that's where you live is definitely, I believe, under the deal in Maryland. So I just went for that outlet. I have not done a deal, but I would say that it was probably easier in that higher end market of an average price of that probably helped with position in lease options. And is the wholesale wholesale will be big spreads. You don't have to be in it. A lot of follow up. Again, a lot of off market stuff. Right. Shadowing leads and probably adding square footage to push ourselves up on the cash side.

Gavin: So I think the lease option definitely will work there. Now, it wouldn't be my first pick if I was going. I'm now I'm in Savannah. I'm not going to go virtual into Maryland. I'm not right. I'm not I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to go there. OK, so there's a few things that you could do regarding this market. Obviously have a brokerage that's from a licensing standpoint. It obviously helps you. Right. You have probably more connections there. So I would probably say in my opinion that I know you would think and just before we started here, you mentioned about potentially going virtual, right? Yes. So virtual is definitely an option for sure. For me, though, for asset levels and cost and everything else, I would probably say before you go virtual, you need to work on getting your numbers up, OK, because it's not going to work going virtual based on the numbers. We already know that. Right. So you're leaving a fault model to go in with a fault model, right. You need to get your numbers up from the strong model to then take that in and apply it into another market and it will stand you in better stead in the long run. Makes sense now.

Gavin: If you said I'm willing to change and go, I'm going to get my numbers up and I'm going to get virtual, you make that commitment, then potentially you could do that as an option. But I'm still concerned that we go virtual and keep the numbers there so, you know, internally to whether you want to make that move. OK, now, in terms of the market, what do you need to do? Obviously, you're doing Zillow, OK? You need to be networking 100 percent networking. OK, I called our network for a reason. Networking is everything in this business. All right. You need to be contacting realtors. Wholesaler's. OK, right, you need to have strong connections with realtors and wholesalers. That means then what you can do is when they get to know you, you build a rapport with them, you get to know them. You can start working the deals that they're not doing anything with. So the ones where they call list, because they the person owes too much money. Right. For the assignment. Right. That's a lead for you. And you can pay them a again, depending on who it is and how you want to do it could be a kind of referral or it could be a marketing fee or whatever.

Gavin: Depending on the legal way and your licensing. But you're going to be talking to the realtors. Right. Wholesalers doing a lot of marketing, the ones that are just doing cash, cash, cash crunch. Well, what's going on with the ones that don't fit? Well, there's motivation, they owe too much. They can't make a cash offer the person wants too much money. You need to be networking. I'm saying, hey, bring me them leads because it's free marketing for you. They're already got the spend. You were the lead and you can partner pay them on the lead, whatever it is that you want to do. But again, free market in in a competitive market. But they're only going to give you that through building trust with them. It's not going to be one phone call. Olin leads over. They're going to be going actually, you know what? We can we're throwing these leads away. You start working and they get paid on it. It makes sense. And they might look at it to go, well, it goes back to my marketing budget is better than nothing like because they don't want to do anything with anyway. Makes sense.

Gavin: So you can bring in good leads without any marketing cost just from work. OK, so that was one thing that I would do for that market. OK, now when you want to go virtual, the things that I would look for is like I tell everyone this virtual is that who do you know, what do you know. Where do you know? Did you grow up somewhere? Do you have family? You have friends like start with them places and then start looking at the price points right now for the fast probably way for a lease option. People will argue probably like one twenty-five to fifty would be a sweet spot. Right. Maybe for a virtual market in my opinion. Right. But I would look at it's more about when you go virtual how good's your team? So I probably networking get maybe a realtor on the ground, maybe someone that's listening to this reaches out and said, hey, I'm a partner. Right. And start looking. And then I realize the market is so many markets that you can go into. Probably everyone ask me, which market should I pick? There's endless markets. I wish I was in another 20 markets, but I can't. I don't have the vision to grow it like that.

Gavin: It's all about how good your team is and how you set open and how you're applying yourself to the business. You know, when I do these strategy sessions with one-to-one clients. It's nothing to do with anyone else but you and I can set the business up in multiple ways to serve you the way you want it. Right? Not me, not anyone else, because it's nothing to do with anyone else. Your business makes sense. That's why there is no one way answer to doing any of this right. It's multiple ways to make sure that it gets done. Done is the thing he has to get done by you or someone. That's it.

Gavin: You want to make it in real estate. That is. It is as simple as that, because if it isn't getting done, it's not making any money or no money in the. It makes total sense. Yes. So I'd say that would be mine just to kind of wrap up in a in a kind of what you need to do. Right, is we want to get four deals a month, closed. We need to be aiming for about six contracts in order to do that. Right. Let's get one or two consistently go and put them on. So let's not again, Angola's six month. Let's try and get one or two contracts to start with and then we'll ease in and build that. The only way we're going to do it is to put more time in the business, which will allow you to get more marketing out. Then you can outsource all that. You're going to talk to more sellers, make more offers and follow up, OK, the follow up is going to be the key to this business. I would then get that going consistently. Try and give yourself probably thirty days of consistency to create a habit of doing it.

Gavin: And then if you choose, you can then go into a virtual market. OK, and then like I said, it's endless picks. Don't overthink it. Look at what you know, you know, anything that gives you an advantage and then the day deal, why you're in Maryland and you've been working that market network, networking, property managers, realtors, wholesalers. Right. What are they doing with the leads that don't make sense? And that's where you come in. Gotcha. Right. Is the lease option expert. You give them the hey, I've done three deals like this. I've done this third-party story. Tell them the case study that you've done like. Oh, yeah, that's amazing. OK, let's work together. It isn't rocket science. Right, for these things here is going to be free marketing and good leads. So anyway, I got a lot of the talking, which is normally one on one that I don't do, I normally drag it out, but I kind of got a picture early on for you. So anything in there that you don't agree with or you like? Well, I don't want to do this or don't want to do that. I mean, what are your thoughts?

Ronnie: So I totally agree with everything. But there is one piece that I think I know you can answer, and you sort of may have answered it, but it would bring a lot of clarity to me. That is, you said that if you were to go virtually, you wouldn't choose Maryland. And what is it about the is that the price point and why is it?

Gavin: Yeah, good question. It's the price point really. And it's just going to be more. Again, I've not analyzed the market, but it's not a massive you know, it's just more high. High end. Right. Which means I don't know this without looking. So no one jump on me because I haven't looked at the numbers. But it wouldn't be something of like a rental market. Right. I like to go virtual where I have multiple options personally, where I can go where there's this buy buying holds, fix and flip lease options and everything else go. Right. That gives me more opportunity in a market. So what type of market is that? It's in a kind of a lower price range market like California. You'd have to buy and hold really in Cal. California buyers go outside because the numbers are the returns aren't in California. Makes sense that they're in the Midwest, the South, whatever.

Gavin: OK, so that's why they invest there, because the return on investment is much better. And that's how I see this as well. Just as a lease option is, if I was going virtual, I wouldn't go to a high-end market. I would go to something where it kind of fits in the bubble of multiple things off of that. Right. And you'll hear about the one percent rule a lot of the time. It's more usual wholesale inside like a hundred thousand and rents for a thousand. The investors want better returns than that, but it's just sort of the quick gauge. And they'll say it needs to be that you can maybe go up a little bit from that. Like I said, the one twenty-five to two fifty. If it was me going virtual, that's just what I would look for though. If you're in the market, these options are great in a high-end market of any of the strategy because the cash offers and everything else isn't working. So it does, it does work in the markets. I just wouldn't choose to go there unless I live.

Ronnie: Okay, I've got the clarity now.

Gavin: Yeah, because you live there. So I'm saying, well, yeah, we're work there. I just wouldn't send you there virtually just wouldn't be any point to that. Make sense? Makes total sense and anyone listening is the same. Wondering how well it won't work and it does work. And Cal but again I wouldn't send you virtually in California to do lease options. Just wouldn't happen. So what, you live there again, your networking, the things that you can do a lot with a lot more proactive things that you can be doing.

Ronnie: OK, and I have one more question for you. Absolutely. And I'll preface this by saying I think this is terrific. I can't thank you enough for the clarity, not just for me, but I think for people watching this. I have a feeling there are a lot of people that have the same thoughts that I've had. And you added so much clarity to it. So let's see if I can remember. Yes, I remember the question. Do you feel that it might be better, even though I've kind of been hiding a little bit behind text, but to actually do the phone call as opposed to texting first?

Gavin: Hundred percent. Yes, but it's more effort. So you can't beat a phone call ever, in my opinion. Now you're talking to someone that's all about the phone, right? Everything that I do make is all about the phone. So I'm biased on this, but the answer is yes. Now, why do we teach then to send text messages? Because it's a way of getting to more people to get a prescreen to then get on the phone. So you're spending time, more time with a quality lead by doing that sequence. But there's something to be said when you just call the person. Yes. And it actually works as well in a way of life. People got farer the phone actually helps with that by just calling the synergy of four, five, six, eight, ten in. It just gets easier as you go. So it's good as well. If people don't want to get on the phone, you need to kind of hit the fear head on. Just start picking up, dialing it and reaching out and having conversations directly. So the answer is yes. But then you have to look at your time spent right where you can maybe get more text messages and get screen and then spend that time with a more qualified lead, something that pros and cons with the answer. But yeah, any point. And here's the other thing. You. Should be doing or could be doing this if they don't respond to the text, call them. If you do start to call them and they don't answer, text them so you can start going back and forth accordingly.

Ronnie: Great. Awesome.

Gavin: Anything else Ronnie?

Ronnie: Do you believe in direct mail a lot?

Gavin: I do. I think there's a I don't do a lot of it, hardly any of it. I think there's a time and a place for this time out in this direct mail. So there's direct mail that I certainly would do on the wholesale side, right on the cash side to niche lists. I wouldn't I'm not a direct mail guy. Now, if you're going to do a one off to line rentals on Zillow, if you want to go that extra step of looking at the IRS and sending rental, sending mail to them. Now, you have to watch for the licensing thing as well, because your license is not doing the things and doing things in the right way. But even if we if we message someone and we get a seller on and they've got a contract with the agent. We're very respectful of the agent. We never go beyond the agent's back. We'll just say, hey, this is what we want to do and we'll give him a heads up. We'll talk, we'll talk to the agent about it. But then the seller already knows from me, like how it's going to go. So then I have an easier job with the agent or if it's like, well, it's been on five months. They've got a month left of the contract. And I know it's too high and it's not moving. I would probably say, well, look, you go with the agent. If it doesn't sell next month, call me after. Then I'll set has to get back with the seller when the agent contracts don't. And I would leave it there as well. OK.

Gavin: So to answer your question is yes, I think for lease options, the one off letters are really good to the Zillow, like going direct to the owner. It's obviously more stamps. So again, it goes into that time bracket, right? You're only doing two, three hours. You can't be spending two, three hours on that because you're going to go backwards. Right. So it's about you need to outsource that or you're going to get them hours open, then split hours accordingly. OK, you see, it comes back to what you're putting in to get like. If you're saying to me, I've only got two or three hours, no money out, two, three hours a week needs to be on the phone, OK, and just call and text. And getting people on and making offers like that's where it needs to be. So that's kind of the key thing in this. Awesome. Well, Ronnie, I appreciate you. Thank you for letting me record this. And I think everyone's going to get a lot of value in this. Listen, guys, if you all make sure you like and subscribe on the podcast or on YouTube, wherever you're watching live right before we go, any anything else we good know.

Ronnie: I think this is a fantastic session. I really, really appreciate it.

Gavin: Awesome. Well, I appreciate you, Ronnie. Thank you so much. And I will talk to you soon.

Ronnie: Excellent. Excellent. Thank you. Keep you posted. Thank you.

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